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Thread: Accept Islamic Terror As The New Normal?

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    Lol, you are threatening me with violence, I am describing the differences and similarities between religions, and you are reporting me!

    Why don't you leave the adults to discuss these things which unfortunately cause you to turn violent.
    I'm not violent- just mimicking your hatred and intolerance. Feel good?
    There is no spoon.



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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Responses in bold.
    It really makes it a pain to respond to posts like this in quotes.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  4. #123
    Scary muslim. boo!!!



  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    The Bible is not the sole authority. You have me mistaken for someone else. The Church, which predates the Bible and produced and correctly interprets the Bible through the Holy Spirit, is the pillar and foundation for the truth.

    It's not because it is 'my Church' which considers polygamy to be immoral which I mention it, but because the Church Christ established 2000 years ago has always considered it immoral.
    Oooooooh. Notice all those Christians who defended polygamy. You demanded, and I provided. And now you have nothing to say. The Bible doesn't support your arguments. Many Christian leaders and theologians don't support your arguments. You've lost all the legs on which your argument stood. Just proof the whole thing was a less than honest effort to distract from your own lack of historical understanding and bias against Islam from the start.

  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I'm not violent- just mimicking your hatred and intolerance. Feel good?
    Oh, I thought you were by the words you spoke.


    Now, using the words I spoke, tell me what my hatred is that you are claiming to mimick.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  7. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I'm not a Mormon but I am a blackbelt and I have no problem kicking your ass.
    Quoted for posterity for when he goes back to posing as a man of peace.

  8. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Oooooooh. Notice all those Christians who defended polygamy. You demanded, and I provided. And now you have nothing to say. The Bible doesn't support your arguments. Many Christian leaders and theologians don't support your arguments. You've lost all the legs on which your argument stood. Just proof the whole thing was a less than honest effort to distract from your own lack of historical understanding and bias against Islam from the start.
    Those 'Christians', like you and Joseph Smith, are the ones ignoring history, namely the history of the Christian Church, which has never condoned polygamy. Must be easy to wake up one day, consider yourself a prophet, and ignore the innumerable Christians who lived and died for 1800 years prior which always held to the apostolic teachings regarding the immorality of polygamy.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  9. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    You just went too far, dude.

    Mormons have been at the receiving end of hate & violence for as long as the LDS Church has existed. Up until 1976 you could legally shoot a Mormon in Missouri. Comparing them to Muslims is exactly the kind of hateful rhetoric that will again open the doors to killing Mormons and for EVERY church to lose their lawful religious freedom.

    I am reporting this.
    So, @RJB why did you neg rep me for this comment and say "Oh waaah"? Do you have any idea what the LDS church has gone through and the dangers to other religions when these things are allowed?
    There is no spoon.



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  11. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    So, @RJB why did you neg rep me for this comment and say "Oh waaah"? Do you have any idea what the LDS church has gone through and the dangers to other religions when these things are allowed?
    I neg repped your reporting a discussion and your hypocrisy in posing as a man of peace and then theatening to kick someone's ass over a disagreement.

  12. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    So what you are saying is, if people in Detroit or some other city think they are having a problem with too many refugees, they should just go out and kill them?
    Why do I have to quote myself so much?

    For what it is worth, I am opposed to all war. My point is that there is nothing special about the conflict with the Moro people. It has nothing to do with Islam specifically. Rather this type of thinking manifests in almost all wars. It is why America could justify bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, firebombing Tokyo and Dresden, and leveling villages and cities across Europe in WWII. It happened to the British Loyalists during and after the Revolutionary War as well.
    Also, refugees and immigrants are not the same as invaders. The Filipino government moves people into the Moro territory with the specific purpose of annexing their land and taking control of the people.

  13. #131
    Ender claims he gave his first neg rep to me. I am curious if it really was his first. He claims to be a man of peace and yet he threatens someone over a disagreement . Has anyone else received such a gift from this peaceful man?

  14. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Why do I have to quote myself so much?



    Also, refugees and immigrants are not the same as invaders
    . The Filipino government moves people into the Moro territory with the specific purpose of annexing their land and taking control of the people.
    I guess that kind of depends on what the refugees or immigrants are doing.

  15. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    I guess that kind of depends on what the refugees or immigrants are doing.
    Refugees prone to blowback are Invaders.

  16. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    Those 'Christians', like you and Joseph Smith, are the ones ignoring history, namely the history of the Christian Church, which has never condoned polygamy. Must be easy to wake up one day, consider yourself a prophet, and ignore the innumerable Christians who lived and died for 1800 years prior which always held to the apostolic teachings regarding the immorality of polygamy.
    Was King Solomon a polygamist? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...1%20Kings%2011

    From the Book of Kings:

    11 King Solomon, however, loved many foreign women besides Pharaoh’s daughter—Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians and Hittites. 2 They were from nations about which the Lord had told the Israelites, “You must not intermarry with them, because they will surely turn your hearts after their gods.” Nevertheless, Solomon held fast to them in love. 3 He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray. 4 As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the Lord his God, as the heart of David his father had been. 5 He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. 6 So Solomon did evil in the eyes of the Lord; he did not follow the Lord completely, as David his father had done.
    Or King David?

    And David took him more concubines and wives out of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were yet sons and daughters born to David.
    Abraham took on a second wife after his first was unable to give him children.

    Genesis Chapter 16:
    1 Now Sarai Abram’s wife bore him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. 2 And Sarai said to Abram, Behold now, the LORD has restrained me from bearing: I pray you, go in to my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram listened to the voice of Sarai. 3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelled ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. 4 And he went in to Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.
    Does not say Abraham divorced his first wife.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-05-2017 at 03:42 PM.

  17. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    So, @RJB why did you neg rep me for this comment and say "Oh waaah"? Do you have any idea what the LDS church has gone through and the dangers to other religions when these things are allowed?
    Do you have idea any what Orthodox Christians have gone through and STILL go thru? The Christian Church has endured 2000 years of persecution and will do so, possibly for 2000 years more, long after Mormonism disappears because of people finally learning the truth of it and its origins and coming home back to the Church of Christ and his every-day Saints.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  18. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Was King Solomon a polygamist? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...1%20Kings%2011

    From the Book of Kings:



    Or King David?



    Abraham took on a second wife after his first was unable to give him children.

    Genesis Chapter 16:


    Does not say Abraham divorced his first wife.

    Zippy, you are an atheist with little knowledge about religion. Please spare us the ill informed posts. Whether all the people were polygamists prior to Christ does not equate to it being condoned since Christ came and revealed the Gospel. This was already discussed above. Try and catch up.
    Last edited by TER; 06-05-2017 at 03:49 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ



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  20. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    Those 'Christians', like you and Joseph Smith, are the ones ignoring history, namely the history of the Christian Church, which has never condoned polygamy. Must be easy to wake up one day, consider yourself a prophet, and ignore the innumerable Christians who lived and died for 1800 years prior which always held to the apostolic teachings regarding the immorality of polygamy.
    No, your church never condoned polygamy. But the people I cited are recognized the world over as Christian Reformers, no argument or controversy. You've lost your argument. Nothing in the Bible condemns polygamy as a general practice. And many Christians defended it.

    And considering Joseph Smith was hunted, beaten, imprisoned, and eventually martyred while his people were legally hunted are killed by state and federal governments of the USA, nothing about his mission was easy. But then Christ's followers have always been persecuted by those in power.

    No one ignored those who came before. In fact we know from restored truths that God makes the fullness of the gospel available to those who were unable to have it in this life. God is the God of the Quick and the Dead.

  21. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    A thousand year history of invading and dominating foreign people is nothing to be proud of.

    Before Islam even existed The Eastern Empire was busy invading and dominating Middle Eastern territories and fighting wars of aggression against the Persians. It invaded Spain, North Africa, the Levant, and attacked deeper into the Middle east into Persia. Its wars with Persia disrupted the sea trade routes around Arabia and effected the overland routes that lead down to Mecca and Medina, with both the Persians and Eastern Romans claiming control over the area. For nearly 126 years before the rise of Islam, the Eastern Romans were waging wars of conquest against the natives people that would quickly convert to Islam when it appeared. It should be no surprise that those people, when given the chance, would rise up against those who attacked them.

    Notice when the Byzantines are doing it, it isn't aggression. When Middle Easterners, whether Muslims or the Persians before them, attack back then they're crazed and violent extremists. In reality it is what we today call "blowback" for Byzantium's long history of invasion and domination of foreign peoples. When you live by the sword you die by the sword.
    For what it is worth, this is the history TER started a whole argument about Mormons to ignore. Blowback against European intervention in the Middle East goes back before Islam existed.

  22. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Ender claims he gave his first neg rep to me. I am curious if it really was his first. He claims to be a man of peace and yet he threatens someone over a disagreement . Has anyone else received such a gift from this peaceful man?
    It was a sarcastic joke- and I have never neg repped anyone but you.
    There is no spoon.

  23. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    No, your church never condoned polygamy. But the people I cited are recognized the world over as Christian Reformers, no argument or controversy. You've lost your argument. Nothing in the Bible condemns polygamy as a general practice. And many Christians defended it.

    And considering Joseph Smith was hunted, beaten, imprisoned, and eventually martyred while his people were legally hunted are killed by state and federal governments of the USA, nothing about his mission was easy. But then Christ's followers have always been persecuted by those in power.

    No one ignored those who came before. In fact we know from restored truths that God makes the fullness of the gospel available to those who were unable to have it in this life. God is the God of the Quick and the Dead.
    The Church I belong to and the teachings about polygamy it's members have handed down come from the Apostles in the first century and predate the Reformers by 1500 years. In other words, offering the opinions of certain Reformed Christians has proven absolutely nothing.
    Last edited by TER; 06-05-2017 at 04:02 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  24. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    It was a sarcastic joke- and I have never neg repped anyone but you.
    It's alright. I forgive you. I'm sure you could kick my ass, btw, and I probably do need a good ass beating. Just don't break my teeth caused I just spent money fixing a chipped tooth!
    Last edited by TER; 06-05-2017 at 04:04 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  25. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    A thousand year reign of an empire will of course be littered with shameful acts done by sinful men, but there is a reason why it outlasted every other empire in recent history even with the constant threat and invasions from the east, the west, the south and the north, and it has to do with the fact that it was a openly declared Christian nation which held virtue and righteousness to be above all, even though the believers often fell short of the mark.

    Yeah, no. It has to do with Constantine I being a terrible person but a good general. Building a city where he did allowed it to be protected from invasion from almost all sides.

    And it wasn't the European Crusaders that conquered Constantinople ultimately. It was the Muslim Turks who blew the walls of Constantinople apart with canons after they had taken all the rest of the empire over. If God was protecting the holy and virtuous Eastern Empire then surely He wouldn't have let it fall to such evil Muslims.

    Honestly, your rhetoric sounds exactly like that which you claim Muslim terrorists spout.

  26. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Yeah, no. It has to do with Constantine I being a terrible person but a good general. Building a city where he did allowed it to be protected from invasion from almost all sides.

    And it wasn't the European Crusaders that conquered Constantinople ultimately. It was the Muslim Turks who blew the walls of Constantinople apart with canons after they had taken all the rest of the empire over. If God was protecting the holy and virtuous Eastern Empire then surely He wouldn't have let it fall to such evil Muslims.

    Honestly, your rhetoric sounds exactly like that which you claim Muslim terrorists spout.
    Honestly, your knowledge of history in this point is poor.

    Constantine was loved by his people. He could have easily claimed to be a god, and the population which was 90% pagan would have worshipped him. But he found Christ and instead put Christ above him which was not the expedient or easy thing to do. He risked his life to profess being a Christian in a world which persecuted and killed Christians. Your views of him are based on revisionist history by Latin and Protestant historians of the last few centuries. Thankfully, there is a trend where historians are beginning to rethink the man and his legacy and a good number of books have come out which defend him from the slander his memory has endured.


    He decriminalized Christianity, protected the orphans and the widows of the empire, criminalized abortion and exposure of infants, brought justice and sound money back, and kicked off an empire which would last a thousand years. He had sins he needed to repent of, as we all do, but, after St. Paul, he has done the most to spread the Gospel of Christ than anyone who ever lived and protect the rights of Christians. A much greater man than either you or me.

    As for the sacking of Constantinople, if you knew history well enough you would know that the sacking by the Papal armies which occurred before the Turks put it in a state in which it never recovered. Any historian will tell you that. It's was the Muslims who finished the work which the Papal armies started.
    Last edited by TER; 06-05-2017 at 04:20 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  27. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    The Church I belong to and the teachings about polygamy it's members have handed down come from the Apostles in the first century and predate the Reformers by 1500 years. In other words, offering the opinions of certain Reformed Christians has proven absolutely nothing.
    You didn't challenge me to name an Orthodox Christian who supported polygamy. You challenged me to name one Christian. I gave you a whole list. Even by terming them Reformed Christians you are still admitting their Christianity and their status as Christians. So not even your claim that no Christian has approved it is valid.

    The church you belong to is the apostate remnants of a broken and shattered Christianity formed after the original Apostles were rejected and martyred. Is it one of the oldest such churches? Certainly. But age does not give authority. There are in fact older Christian churches who can make the same claim you do.

    In fact, comparing churches to Islam, the Orthodox obsession with erroneously attributing their beliefs to the Apostles reminds me of how Muslims contribute most of their beliefs to the hadith, the sayings of Muhammad separate from the Qur'an. It isn't in the Bible, you have no authority to pronounce it since you denounce the revelation from God, so you must claim it as a saying or teaching that supposedly came from an Apostle at some time, some where.



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  29. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    It's alright. I forgive you. I'm sure you could kick my ass, btw, and I probably do need a good ass beating. Just don't break my teeth caused I just spent money fixing a chipped tooth!
    LOL!

    We'd probably get along fine in person.

    Peace.
    There is no spoon.

  30. #146
    My, how the devil thrives on dogma.

    Gee, I wonder how the forces of evil manage to get away with all the things they do? Gee, I wonder how a body of mostly Christian voters can elect such a pack of evil? Could it be their unparalleled techniques of divide and conquer?

    Too bad Jesus didn't tell us how to avoid that. Oh, wait. He did, didn't He? Who received more of His praise than the Good Samaritan? And what did that heathen and barbarian do? He asked not about anyone's dogma. He merely asked, 'What can I do to help you today?' Such a horrible heathen and barbarian, to forget all dogma, and fail to sit in judgement, and to merely help a stranger survive the day!

    Religion is a wonderful thing, so long as it draws us closer to God. Well, what else could it do? According to some of us, the vast majority of people on Earth subscribe to a religion which alienates us from God. And what does it do to alienate us from Him? Near as I can tell, the major problem is it is a different religion than ours. People who would no more interfere in the relationship between a father and a child is prone to bitter condemnation when they see the nature of the relationship between the Father and His children.

    And why? What moves someone to assume that no one can have a different sort of relationship with Our Father than ours? Does any merely mortal father not have a unique relationship with each of his children, if he has more than one? So what is it a mortal father has that enables him to maintain different relationships with each of his unique children, that Our Father does not have? And if God does have it, if we can give God credit for being able to do what any good father of more than one child can do, then why are we so jealous of His affection that we cannot abide the nature of God's relationships with others being different than our own?

    The Orthodox Christian accuses the Mormon of polytheism because he believes in prophets the Orthodoxy does not recognize. The Muslim accuses the Christian of polytheism because his pitifully limited understanding of God is as a Trinity. Seriously? Is this what Jesus would do? Are our pitiful little attempts to understand the nature of Omniscience and Omnipotence and Eternity really so finely developed that we are truly justified in drawing these distinctions? Is our pitifully limited understanding of our Creator really so definite and laudable that it justifies us standing by, and even reelecting our representatives, while our government bombs and persecutes and kills strangers? What kind of devil lives in our dogma if it makes us capable of turning a blind eye to, or even supporting, the most un-Christian of acts toward people whose hearts are completely unknown to us, on the strength of stereotypes by reports presented to us by a news media we know for a fact lies to us daily?

    So what can we do about these devils we have elected? Nothing, so long as we are so insecure in our relationships with God that we cannot even graciously allow that another of God's children could possibly have a relationship with Our Father which is fundamentally different than our own. Nothing, so long as our 'fundamentals' are so important to us that we forget the fundamental fact that on the Judgment Day, the only question which will be asked is, 'Lord, when did we see You?' Nothing, so long as, like the Pharisee and unlike the Samaritan, we are capable of believing other thoughts more important than, 'Here is someone who is suffering--what can I do about it?'

    Anyone who does not believe as I do is not a [fill in the blank], and is therefore less than human, and is therefore fodder for my cannons and of no consequence to my 'Christian' heart. Well, then. Ask not why I put the quotation marks around 'Christian'. A certain heathen, barbaric Samaritan is a better Christian than you. Jesus told you so. The Good Samaritan did not see a [insert label here] lying in the dirt in pain. He saw his brother lying there.

    The pure of heart can defeat the devil every single time. But not us. We are divided, and revel in our divisions. We know the enemy is the oligarchy, and the oligarchy causes all the suffering, there and here and everywhere. But we are so intent on maintaining our insecure and silly beliefs that our dogma is superior, that only our prophet count is the right prophet count, that only our preacher is Officially Approved, that we cannot fill our hearts with His love, we cannot tell friend from enemy, and we are powerless to unite against the devil.

    This thread makes me ashamed of this allegedly Christian nation of mine, and of the whole human race. How completely we understand the soul of our brother if he speaks in the right accent and spouts the right dogma, and how quickly that brotherly love falls away, how soon we forget the wisdom of our Savior, how completely refuse to give the benefit of the doubt and rush to stand behind the crimes of the devil, when our brother is different from us, and hard to understand, and far enough away that we cannot hear his cries of anguish!

    'We' must protect ourselves from 'Them' indeed. Don't turn the other cheek, launch another missile. It's okay to ignore everything our Savior tried to teach us about right and wrong, because 'They' believe so-and-so is a prophet. Kill them!

    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    Do you have idea any what Orthodox Christians have gone through and STILL go thru?
    Is it reason enough to short-circuit peace among men, and good will on Earth? Is forgiveness so impossible that peace cannot be achieved?

    Intolerance is the seed of war. Escalation and paranoia, and imagining threats to be worse than they are, retaliating without ever once stopping to consider that each retaliation brings more retaliation, is a delight to the devil. Jesus told us to assume men are our brothers unless and until they prove to us they are the moneychangers in the temple, and to turn the other cheek. What part of this advice is bad?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-05-2017 at 04:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  31. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    Honestly, your knowledge of history in this point is poor.

    Constantine was loved by his people. He could have easily claimed to be a god, and the population which was 90% pagan would have worshipped him. But he found Christ and instead put Christ above him which was not the expedient or easy thing to do. He risked his life to profess being a Christian in a world which persecuted and killed Christians. Your views of him are based on revisionist history by Latin and Protestant historians of the last few centuries. Thankfully, there is a trend where historians are beginning to rethink the man and his legacy and a good number of books have come out which defend him from the slander his memory has endured.

    He decriminalized Christianity, protected the orphans and the widows of the empire, criminalized abortion and exposure of infants, brought justice and sound money back, and kicked off an empire which would last a thousand years. He had sins he needed to repent of, as we all do, but, after St. Paul, he has done the most to spread the Gospel of Christ than anyone who ever lived and protect the rights of Christians. A much greater man than either you or me.

    Barack Obama is loved by most of his people. Does that make him a great leader? Ronald Reagan is loved by many of his people. Does that mean he was sent from God? Abraham Lincoln is almost universally beloved today. Is he a Saint?

    Constantine I was a warmonger. His invasions of the West and the east lead to the deaths of thousands of innocent men, women, and children. He was a tyrant whose desire to exercise absolute control lead to decades of bloody civil wars. His exercise of authority in determining issues of Christian doctrine was not the beginning of Christianity being poisoned by pagan doctrines and ideas, but it certainly helped further the problem. A man without authority from God claiming the right to act and control God's church is apostasy and any church that follows him is apostate. This is only made worse by the fact that he still held to the title of pontifex maximus of the pagan state religion of Rome. Though this certainly gives us a great example of why Constantine would legalize Christianity- he wanted to use it to control the Christians in the same way he could use his status as a pagan priest to control pagan Romans.

    That you would compare such a man to Paul is, frankly, sickening. Sling all the mud you want at Joseph Smith for being a polygamist. What he wasn't was an authoritarian,warmongering mass murderer like Constantine I.


    As for the sacking of Constantinople, if you knew history well enough you would know that the sacking by the Papal armies which occurred before the Turks put it in a state in which it never recovered. Any historian will tell you that. It's was the Muslims who finished the work which the Papal armies started.

    Any historian of note will tell you that the Fourth Crusade sacked Constantinople in 1204 and they were driven out by 1261. The Ottomans didn't destroy Constantinople until 1453, almost 200 years later. While the Crusaders certainly didn't help Constantinople, they can hardly be blamed for its inability to repel invasion 200 years later. Canons fell the walls of Constantinople, not Crusaders. But perhaps those invaders would not have been there if Constantinople hadn't been invading their lands for the last one thousand years and picking fights it ultimately wouldn't be able to win.

    Responses in bold.

  32. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    My, how the devil thrives on dogma.

    Gee, I wonder how the forces of evil manage to get away with all the things they do? Gee, I wonder how a body of mostly Christian voters can elect such a pack of evil? Could it be their unparalleled techniques of divide and conquer?

    Too bad Jesus didn't tell us how to avoid that. Oh, wait. He did, didn't He? Who received more of His praise than the Good Samaritan? And what did that heathen and barbarian do? He asked not about anyone's dogma. He merely asked, 'What can I do to help you today?' Such a horrible heathen and barbarian, to forget all dogma, and fail to sit in judgement, and to merely help a stranger survive the day!

    Religion is a wonderful thing, so long as it draws us closer to God. Well, what else could it do? According to some of us, the vast majority of people on Earth subscribe to a religion which alienates us from God. And what does it do to alienate us from Him? Near as I can tell, the major problem is it is a different religion than ours. People who would no more interfere in the relationship between a father and a child is prone to bitter condemnation when they see the nature of the relationship between the Father and His children.

    And why? What moves someone to assume that no one can have a different sort of relationship with Our Father than ours? Does any merely mortal father not have a unique relationship with each of his children, if he has more than one? So what is it a mortal father has that enables him to maintain different relationships with each of his unique children, that Our Father does not have? And if God does have it, if we can give God credit for being able to do what any good father of more than one child can do, then why are we so jealous of His affection that we cannot abide the nature of God's relationships with others being different than our own?

    The Orthodox Christian accuses the Mormon of polytheism because he believes in prophets the Orthodoxy does not recognize. The Muslim accuses the Christian of polytheism because his pitifully limited understanding of God is as a Trinity. Seriously? Is this what Jesus would do? Are our pitiful little attempts to understand the nature of Omniscience and Omnipotence and Eternity really so finely developed that we are truly justified in drawing these distinctions? Is our pitifully limited understanding of our Creator really so definite and laudable that it justifies us standing by, and even reelecting our representatives, while our government bombs and persecutes and kills strangers? What kind of devil lives in our dogma if it makes us capable of turning a blind eye to, or even supporting, the most un-Christian of acts toward people whose hearts are completely unknown to us, on the strength of stereotypes by reports presented to us by a news media we know for a fact lies to us daily?

    So what can we do about these devils we have elected? Nothing, so long as we are so insecure in our relationships with God that we cannot even graciously allow that another of God's children could possibly have a relationship with Our Father which is fundamentally different than our own. Nothing, so long as our 'fundamentals' are so important to us that we forget the fundamental fact that on the Judgment Day, the only question which will be asked is, 'Lord, when did we see You?' Nothing, so long as, like the Pharisee and unlike the Samaritan, we are capable of believing other thoughts more important than, 'Here is someone who is suffering--what can I do about it?'

    Anyone who does not believe as I do is not a [fill in the blank], and is therefore less than human, and is therefore fodder for my cannons and of no consequence to my 'Christian' heart. Well, then. Ask not why I put the quotation marks around 'Christian'. A certain heathen, barbaric Samaritan is a better Christian than you. Jesus told you so. The Good Samaritan did not see a [insert label here] lying in the dirt in pain. He saw his brother lying there.

    The pure of heart can defeat the devil every single time. But not us. We are divided, and revel in our divisions. We know the enemy is the oligarchy, and the oligarchy causes all the suffering, there and here and everywhere. But we are so intent on maintaining our insecure and silly beliefs that our dogma is superior, that only our prophet count is the right prophet count, that only our preacher is Officially Approved, that we cannot fill our hearts with His love, we cannot tell friend from enemy, and we are powerless to unite against the devil.

    This thread makes me ashamed of this allegedly Christian nation of mine, and of the whole human race. How completely we understand the soul of our brother if he speaks in the right accent and spouts the right dogma, and how quickly that brotherly love falls away, how soon we forget the wisdom of our Savior, how completely refuse to give the benefit of the doubt and rush to stand behind the crimes of the devil, when our brother is different from us, and hard to understand, and far enough away that we cannot hear his cries of anguish!

    'We' must protect ourselves from 'Them' indeed. Don't turn the other cheek, launch another missile. It's okay to ignore everything our Savior tried to teach us about right and wrong, because 'They' believe so-and-so is a prophet. Kill them!



    Is it reason enough to short-circuit peace among men, and good will on Earth? Is forgiveness so impossible that peace cannot be achieved?
    Touche and well said. Contention is a demon with a velvet tongue.

  33. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    You didn't challenge me to name an Orthodox Christian who supported polygamy. You challenged me to name one Christian. I gave you a whole list. Even by terming them Reformed Christians you are still admitting their Christianity and their status as Christians. So not even your claim that no Christian has approved it is valid.
    There are people who call themselves Christians and teach a lot of things. The people you are refencing are certainly more Christian in doctrine than Mormons, but their opinions on the matter of polygamy do not conform to what the history of Christianity is and the teachings handed down from the beginning. In other words, you have offered no proof.

    The church you belong to is the apostate remnants of a broken and shattered Christianity formed after the original Apostles were rejected and martyred. Is it one of the oldest such churches? Certainly. But age does not give authority. There are in fact older Christian churches who can make the same claim you do.
    Can you name the older churches? I'm interested in hearing about them.

    If the Orthodox Church is indeed the oldest Church (which it actually is), it is interesting that you don't give any credence to it. Most reasonable people would find that interesting, which is why Mormons are converting to Orthodoxy. You see, the world is not greater than Christ, and His Body, which is the Church, will not be destroyed, just as he promised. You ascribe to the theory that the Church became apostate and completely fell away. Care to provide any proof? There are much more historical evidence to prove that the Orthodox Church came directly from the Apostles than there is that an angel named Moroni visited some man in upstate New York.

    The Orthodox Church is evangelical, but not Protestant. It is orthodox, but not Jewish. It is catholic, but not Roman. It isn't non-denominational - it is pre-denominational. It has believed, taught, preserved, defended and died for the Faith of the Apostles since the Day of Pentecost 2,000 years ago.

    The only way Joseph Smith can be right is if Christ is a liar and the world overcame His Body (the Church) and the Holy Spirit was impotent against the powers of this world. If it is between Joseph Smith and the Church, Joseph Smith loses everyday. The truth is that the faith and the communion of Saints which started 2000 years ago has always existed, and it is through the Holy Spirit working in the Church whereby the teachings of the Apostles have come down to us today. God did not abandon the world so that 1800 years later some man from New York can teach his followers to baptize the dead and teach all kinds of innovative and fanciful claims.

    The truth is, the Orthodox Church has much more weight to claim it is the Church of the New Testament than any other Christian community, especially than with Mormonism or any other innovative religion fabricated by delusion men.

    In fact, comparing churches to Islam, the Orthodox obsession with erroneously attributing their beliefs to the Apostles reminds me of how Muslims contribute most of their beliefs to the hadith, the sayings of Muhammad separate from the Qur'an. It isn't in the Bible, you have no authority to pronounce it since you denounce the revelation from God, so you must claim it as a saying or teaching that supposedly came from an Apostle at some time, some where.
    Wrong. The Bible is the written word of God which the Body of Christ, that is, the baptized members of Christ, use as a tool to fulfill the commision to spread the gospel. It is NOT however the only source of teachings, and didn't even exist in its final form for centuries. It is the Church, which created the Scriptures and defended the Scriptures, and correctly interprets the Scripture which is the authority for the Christian faith. All the Bibles in the world could disappear tomorrow, and the Christian faith and the Church would still continue.
    Last edited by TER; 06-05-2017 at 04:59 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  34. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    My, how the devil thrives on dogma.
    The devil actually thrives on false dogma.

    Jesus told us to assume men are our brothers unless and until they prove to us they are the moneychangers in the temple, and to turn the other cheek. What part of this advice is bad?
    None of that is bad. What exactly is your point? To allow Sharia Law become dominate so that we won't offend the Muslims?
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

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