View Poll Results: If Immigrants Received No Welfare, I Would...

Voters
12. You may not vote on this poll
  • Support Free Immigration

    5 41.67%
  • Support Immigration Restrictions

    7 58.33%
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Thread: Immigration & Welfare

  1. #1

    Default Immigration & Welfare

    Vote and comment.

    Note that "free immigration" allows for screening for criminal associations, infectious disease, etc.

    It does not allow for arbitrary quotas, as exist under the present system.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 06-01-2017 at 05:49 PM.
    "For the average person, all problems date to World War II; for the more informed, to World War I; for the genuine historian, to the French Revolution."

    - Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn



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  3. #2

    Default

    Yes, no.

    Private property.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  4. #3

    Default

    What is: Don't go together.
    “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler"

    Groucho Marx

  5. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    What is: Don't go together.
    What don't go together?

    If you mean immigration and welfare, well they aren't together: reread the question.
    "For the average person, all problems date to World War II; for the more informed, to World War I; for the genuine historian, to the French Revolution."

    - Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

  6. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What don't go together?

    If you mean immigration and welfare, well they aren't together: reread the question.
    The poll did not show the first time I posted.
    Immigration should be moderately restricted to prevent cultural balkanization even without welfare.
    “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler"

    Groucho Marx

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The poll did not show the first time I posted.
    Gotcha

    Immigration should be moderately restricted to prevent cultural balkanization even without welfare.
    What's that?

    Does it have something to do with how in the vast majority of violent crimes the victim and perpetrator are of the same race?
    "For the average person, all problems date to World War II; for the more informed, to World War I; for the genuine historian, to the French Revolution."

    - Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What's that?

    Does it have something to do with how in the vast majority of violent crimes the victim and perpetrator are of the same race?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkanization

    When you bring in too many too fast they refuse to become Americans, and begin to colonize portions of territory, and eventually try to breakaway and then usually seek to steal more territory.

    Like the Muslims in Europe.

    This makes immigration indistinguishable from invasion.
    “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler"

    Groucho Marx

  9. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkanization

    When you bring in too many too fast they refuse to become Americans, and begin to colonize portions of territory, and eventually try to breakaway and then usually seek to steal more territory.

    Like the Muslims in Europe.

    This makes immigration indistinguishable from invasion.
    What is the correspondence between this theory and the history of the US from say 1850-1900?
    "For the average person, all problems date to World War II; for the more informed, to World War I; for the genuine historian, to the French Revolution."

    - Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

  10. #9

    Default

    If Gun Grabbing liberty hating Democrats Received No Welfare, I Would...


    Let Millions more Gun grabbing liberty hating Democrats in


    Stop letting millions of Gun grabbing liberty hating Democrats in.
    Pretty easy choice. I see how Border politics goes. If y'all had your way my state will ban guns within a few years. Just cause and effect.
    Freedom index

    ~Resident Badgiraffe





  11. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Pretty easy choice. I see how Border politics goes. If y'all had your way my state will ban guns within a few years. Just cause and effect.
    SS, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, unemployment, other welfare...

    ALL of it created before mass third world immigration, and a problem entirely regardless thereof.

    You disappoint me Bill H. Giraffe.

    I'm rooting for the lions.
    "For the average person, all problems date to World War II; for the more informed, to World War I; for the genuine historian, to the French Revolution."

    - Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

  12. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What is the correspondence between this theory and the history of the US from say 1850-1900?
    Modern transportation changed things. It is now cheaper, faster and easier to get here.
    Before then the U.S. had an advantage that other nations in history did not, 2 massive oceans to deter immigration, and at that time the population of Mexico was much less, and the rest of the world had not destroyed themselves so horribly with socialism etc. so less people from anywhere wanted to come and those who did were not so un-American.
    “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler"

    Groucho Marx

  13. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    SS, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, unemployment, other welfare...

    ALL of it created before mass third world immigration, and a problem entirely regardless thereof.

    You disappoint me Bill H. Giraffe.

    I'm rooting for the lions.
    Our fellow Americans already did stupid things, so lets bring in people who will make sure we can't fix them?

    Mega FAIL
    “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler"

    Groucho Marx

  14. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    SS, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, unemployment, other welfare...

    ALL of it created before mass third world immigration, and a problem entirely regardless thereof.

    You disappoint me Bill H. Giraffe.

    I'm rooting for the lions.
    I thought you would embrace my objection to your purism.

    Seriously though, if I saw improvements happening politically where these mass migrations are happening I would be cheering them on louder than you. You are right that welfare etc are problems regardless of who else comes in. But there's no denying the communities that are majority recent immigrants are far more communistic and anti liberty than your average backwards small town in the heartland. Nobody in the liberty movement wants the Texas government to reflect El Paso, or the U.S government to reflect southern California.

    Go ahead and make that case if you can. I'm not close minded just dealing with the facts as they are. If some individual illegal alien is pro liberty then yeah I'd prefer him as a neighbor over 90% of Americans but that's a rare bird.
    Freedom index

    ~Resident Badgiraffe





  15. #14

    Default

    How much is each vote worth?
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  16. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Yes, no.

    Private property.
    This.

    Fedgov wasn't given authority over immigration, but individuals can decide who goes on their land.
    Last edited by The Rebel Poet; 06-02-2017 at 04:57 AM.
    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

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  17. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    Fedgov wasn't given authority over immigration.
    If they don't have it, then the States do.
    “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler"

    Groucho Marx

  18. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If they don't have it, then the States do.
    Yes, which isn't an acceptable solution for the anti-immigration types, because there are states who absolutely would accept immigrants and then disproportionately reap the economic benefits of them at the expense of their anti-immigration neighbors.
    Beyond hope:
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I think [Trump] is going to cut the [Pentagon] budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    Within the first 100 days Trump/Rand will have Ryan gone as Speaker.

    Still hopeful:
    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo Galilei View Post
    Expect [a government shutdown] in September.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The Fed is NOT safe from audit, Trump has said he wants to audit the fed and we may have some bills coming up soon.

  19. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Yes, which isn't an acceptable solution for the anti-immigration types, because there are states who absolutely would accept immigrants and then disproportionately reap the economic benefits of them at the expense of their anti-immigration neighbors.
    If the States have it, then they could refuse to let Califonia, NY, Mass, etc. export their human filth to corrupt the rest of the nation.
    But the feds have the authority, since it is a matter of foreign relations, my point was that even if @The Rebel Poet was right, some level of government had the authority.
    “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler"

    Groucho Marx

  20. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If the States have it, then they could refuse to let Califonia, NY, Mass, etc. export their human filth to corrupt the rest of the nation.
    They don't want to allow immigration to then pass those people on to other states, they want them to stay.

    Like I said. They will reap the economic benefits of those people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    But the feds have the authority, since it is a matter of foreign relations
    How is immigration foreign relations?
    Beyond hope:
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I think [Trump] is going to cut the [Pentagon] budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    Within the first 100 days Trump/Rand will have Ryan gone as Speaker.

    Still hopeful:
    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo Galilei View Post
    Expect [a government shutdown] in September.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The Fed is NOT safe from audit, Trump has said he wants to audit the fed and we may have some bills coming up soon.

  21. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    They don't want to allow immigration to then pass those people on to other states, they want them to stay.

    Like I said. They will reap the economic benefits of those people.
    And the Cultural and Political detriments, which will lead to economic disaster.




    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    How is immigration foreign relations?
    Where do the Immigrants come from? Foreign Countries.
    “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler"

    Groucho Marx

  22. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And the Cultural and Political detriments, which will lead to economic disaster.
    So you say.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Where do the Immigrants come from? Foreign Countries.
    Does the immigration of a person involve the permission of the foreign government for their serf to depart?

    Or does every involvement with "human filth" require the involvement of the federal government to police the matter?
    Beyond hope:
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I think [Trump] is going to cut the [Pentagon] budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    Within the first 100 days Trump/Rand will have Ryan gone as Speaker.

    Still hopeful:
    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo Galilei View Post
    Expect [a government shutdown] in September.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The Fed is NOT safe from audit, Trump has said he wants to audit the fed and we may have some bills coming up soon.

  23. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Does the immigration of a person involve the permission of the foreign government for their serf to depart?
    Irrelevant, that is their problem, The would be Immigrant is a foreigner, therefore his relationship to the U.S. is a FOREIGN RELATIONS matter.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Or does every involvement with "human filth" require the involvement of the federal government to police the matter?
    No.

    In case you did not understand, the "human filth" I was referring to were primarily the degenerate, statist "american" citizens of those states.
    “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler"

    Groucho Marx

  24. #23

    Default

    I'd rather the market decide who my neighbors and community members are rather than some central authority thank you very much. I'm not sure there is a better way to retard a given geographical location then to prevent the market's allocation of property within it.

  25. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    SS, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, unemployment, other welfare...

    ALL of it created before mass third world immigration, and a problem entirely regardless thereof.

    You disappoint me Bill H. Giraffe.

    I'm rooting for the lions.
    Illegal immigrants aren't eligible for Federal government benefits. Legal immigrants have to wait five years to become eligible.
    "The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed yet." - William Gibson

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  26. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Illegal immigrants aren't eligible for Federal government benefits. Legal immigrants have to wait five years to become eligible.
    And no shootings ever take place at schools, because they are "GUN FREE ZONES".
    “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler"

    Groucho Marx

  27. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Illegal immigrants aren't eligible for Federal government benefits. Legal immigrants have to wait five years to become eligible.
    How many times does this need to be debunked?
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  28. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    How many times does this need to be debunked?
    Medicare: http://www.mymedicare.com/medicare-eligibility/

    Certain groups of individuals born outside of the United States can be eligible for Medicare coverage. No illegal aliens are allowed to collect Medicare benefits. Those who are legal aliens in the United States and have lived in the country for at least five years continuously may be Medicare eligible but need to contact a local Medicare office for specific eligibility information as it can vary from person to person.
    SNAP (food stamps): https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/snap-p...en-eligibility

    Immigrant Eligibility Requirements

    The 2002 Farm Bill restores SNAP eligibility to most legal immigrants that:

    Have lived in the country for 5 years; or
    Are receiving disability-related assistance or benefits; or
    Children under 18

    Certain non-citizens such as those admitted for humanitarian reasons and those admitted for permanent residence may also eligible for the program. Eligible household members can get SNAP benefits even if there are other members of the household that are not eligible.

    (See Policy on Immigrants for information on qualified alien categories and eligibility) (See also SNAP Guidance on Non-Citizen Eligibility)

    Non-citizens that are in the U.S. temporarily, such as students, are not eligible.
    Social Security: http://econofact.org/do-undocumented...nment-benefits

    Undocumented immigrants are not eligible to receive Social Security benefits even though many contribute to the system. Many undocumented immigrants work in the formal sector and contribute to the social security trust fund. Estimates suggest that up to $12 billion per year are contributed by undocumented immigrants and their employers. Most undocumented immigrants will never draw from the system. One hypothetical exception is that if the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program lasts long enough and participants pay into the system, they would eventually be eligible for benefits, but the first payouts in this hypothetical eventuality are nearly three decades away. Other immigrants who transition to legal status can also collect benefits based on their contribution history, even if some of their contributions were made while unauthorized.
    "The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed yet." - William Gibson

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  29. #28

    Default

    Can somebody publish a link to a post to refresh Zippy's memory?
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Can somebody publish a link to a post to refresh Zippy's memory?
    Why bother, the Democrats post here to disrupt.

    They will only quote a Libertarian or Ron Paul if it somehow bolster they point.
    Last edited by Danke; 06-02-2017 at 09:40 PM.
    But the fact of the matter is that there are often times in life even a curmudgeonly, misanthropic old grouch like myself has to "join the team" to accomplish a larger goal. -AF

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  31. #30

    Default

    I did not vote . What I would support is zero to highly restricted immigration until there is zero Federal welfare of any kind and a balanced budget.
    Support CalExit . Danke Do Something

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