View Poll Results: Why Won't Trump Release His Tax Returns?

Voters
15. You may not vote on this poll
  • They Would Show He's Worth Less $$$ Than He Claims

    3 20.00%
  • They Contain Evidence of A Crime

    0 0%
  • They Would Reveal Politically Awkward Associations

    5 33.33%
  • Other

    7 46.67%
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Thread: Why Won't Trump Release His Tax Returns?

  1. #1

    Default Why Won't Trump Release His Tax Returns?

    Whether you think he ought to or not, there's no denying that refusing to do so has caused him much political grief.

    So, why doesn't he just release them and solve the problem?

    How does he benefit by continuing to withhold them?
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.



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  3. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I do think that ID should be required for certain things like carrying a concealed weapon...




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  4. #3

    Default

    For the record, I think all of the above are plausible, but the most likely is that he's not worth what he claims.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  5. #4

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    If he released his tax returns it would only hurt him, because he's probably way richer than he actually lets on. He's very humble about his wealth.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  6. #5

    Default

    I voted "other." Basically, because he doesn't have to.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  7. #6

    Default

    He didn't want to release them during the election because he believed that doing so cost Mitt Romney the election. Now that the election is over there is even less incentive for him to release them. http://www.politicususa.com/2016/07/...x-returns.html

    Now, I have to tell you. I watched Mitt Romney four years ago. He waited until September to give them, just before the election. They made him look so bad, it was so unfair, I actually think he didn’t lose because of the 47 percent, I think he lost because of a couple of really minor items in tax return where he did nothing wrong. So it is unfair.

    But I will say, when I’m finished with the audit, I’ll do it.

    STEPHANOPOULOS: Richard Nixon released his even though his were under audit.

    TRUMP: I don’t use Richard Nixon as necessarily the guide, OK. I mean, you know, it’s an interesting person to use, but don’t use it.
    The "because I am under audit" claim was bogus- the IRS said the audit would not prevent Trump from releasing his tax information.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-18-2017 at 07:57 PM.
    "The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed yet." - William Gibson

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to. This post may include statements I don't personally agree with.

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I voted "other." Basically, because he doesn't have to.
    No, he doesn't have to, but that doesn't explain his behavior.

    People don't generally take actions that harm themselves unless there's some offsetting benefit.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  9. #8

    Default

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/14/news...p-tax-returns/

    If Trump's returns were ever released -- how much the public would learn depends on what parts of his returns come out. For instance, the top two pages alone won't reveal his foreign ties. Even his full return -- including schedules and attached forms -- may not definitively resolve concerns about his foreign business relationships. But they could point to other information -- such as who else invests in his partnerships -- that could help answer questions.

    That said, however, plenty of other details about his tax situation would be revealed, such as:

    How much income he made: The top two pages of his federal Form 1040 would reveal Trump's income from general sources (salary, business income, investment income, rental income, etc.)

    What he claimed in deductions: Trump's return would indicate how much he claimed in itemized deductions. More specifically on Schedule A and Form 8283, he would report how much money he donated to charity and which charities he chose.

    His charitable giving is an area he bragged about during the campaign, even though a Pulitzer Prize-winning Washington Post report did not find proof in most instances of the donations Trump said he made.

    How much he paid in taxes: The president has often bragged about paying as little tax as possible while at the same time boasting of his great wealth. That's raised concerns that the tax code may allow some of the very richest Americans to pay very little.

    Whether and where he has foreign bank accounts: On Schedule B and related Form 8938, the public would learn what foreign accounts and trusts Trump has and in which countries.

    Whether he paid taxes to foreign governments: If Trump claims a foreign tax credit, that means he paid tax to a foreign government and that would be subtracted from his U.S. income tax liability. On Form 1116 he'd have to reveal the countries where he paid those taxes and the type of income on which those taxes were due.

    His businesses' profits and losses: Schedule C would detail the profits, losses and expenses of Trump's individual business entities. Schedule K would show his or his entities' share of profits, losses and liabilities in the various partnerships in which Trump has a stake. That same schedule would also list the locations of those partnerships.

    Also, on those forms he must declare whether he "materially participated" in a given business. In cases where he did, he could really reduce his tax bill because he'd be allowed to use losses from that business to offset taxable profits from other businesses or investments, said tax lawyer Steven Rosenthal, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center.

    Whether he'd benefit from his own tax reform proposals: The Trump administration has indicated it is working on a new tax reform plan. If and when that new plan is ever released, having the president's more recent tax returns would offer a good indication of whether he'd benefit from his own proposals.
    "The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed yet." - William Gibson

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to. This post may include statements I don't personally agree with.

  10. #9

    Default

    It would be used as a weapon of mass distraction.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  11. #10

    Default

    It won't be his choice much longer. Due to his own $#@!ups, the independent "councel" will get them via subpoena.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  12. #11

    Default

    I would not share mine . Nothing to be gained .

  13. #12

    Default

    We need a special prosecutor to review all of Trump's taxes and other legal documents. Hillary doesn't have a job right now, so she would be perfect.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  14. #13

    Default

    I think that it was a political calculation, Mitt Romney was labeled someone who fires and liquidates companies and pays pennies compared to other people in his income bracket. Progressives flocked to vote against him because he was considered evil. Hillary was the crony capitalist in this election though, the progressives saw her as someone who runs a charity as a money laundering scheme because frankly hardly any money got spent on charity, one could argue donations were made after political favors were made. Trump didn't have the luxury of having his information leaked out. He had the entire $#@!ing deep state against him and nothing got leaked out other then him talking about grabbing people by the pussy because he is so $#@!ing successful.

  15. #14

    Default

    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  16. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    It won't be his choice much longer. Due to his own $#@!ups, the independent "councel" will get them via subpoena.
    He certainly has the power to get them, we'll see if does.

    Though, if he does, and it doesn't relate to Russia, we may never hear about it, even if it reveals other interesting (but non-criminal) things.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  17. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    No, he doesn't have to, but that doesn't explain his behavior.

    People don't generally take actions that harm themselves unless there's some offsetting benefit.
    yeah, because NOT having thousands, or even millions of political enemies trolling through your tax returns looking for a mistake or something to bitch about has no benefit.

  18. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    He certainly has the power to get them, we'll see if does.

    Though, if he does, and it doesn't relate to Russia, we may never hear about it, even if it reveals other interesting (but non-criminal) things.
    I think this Russia thing is still a way of demonizing Russia through association. I think if Russia had anything to do with Trump they would of JFK'd him. My coworkers brother is in Poland right now. Why do you think we are in Poland?

  19. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    I think this Russia thing is still a way of demonizing Russia through association. I think if Russia had anything to do with Trump they would of JFK'd him.
    I don't think Trump's working for the Russians in the sense that he's going to actively do anything for them.

    I think the Russian goal in promoting candidate Trump was simply to cause political chaos in the US: mission accomplished.

    I doubt Trump fully appreciated what was happening.

    My coworkers brother is in Poland right now. Why do you think we are in Poland?
    Russia's the main obstacle to the hawks' dream of world domination, of course.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  20. #19

    Default

    It might be that he simply doesn't want to release them to the public.

  21. #20

    Default

    Worth less than he claims and also awkward. He and his family have said before that they've had to get foreign loans because of his history of unsuccessful business ventures.


    Also, likely they'd reveal some potential conflicts of interest.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I think [Trump] is going to cut the budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Why do you try to disprove actual real evidence by discussing the views of the person who compiled it? That doesn't make any logical sense.

  22. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    yeah, because NOT having thousands, or even millions of political enemies trolling through your tax returns looking for a mistake or something to bitch about has no benefit.

    Hey, there you go, that looks like a correct answer.

    the media would take any particular data point and pretend that particular thing is terrible. And I'd guess that Trump would prefer not that.

  23. #22

    Default

    From the studies I have seen regarding wealth, Trump is fairly wealthy, but there are caveats:

    1) He isn't at anywhere close to his claimed 10 billion in wealth.
    2) It all comes from like two real estate properties. Many of his other real estate holding, not to mention his other business ventures, have been a disaster. Hard to seem like a good businessman when it seems like you "got lucky" with one or two investments.
    3) Moreover, he has a cash flow issues (since so many of his investments haven't returned positive cash flows, and much of his net worth is tied up in the price of real estate, meaning future cash flows from a sale). It may be that he's been borrowing and taking debt off his net worth for a long time, and that is embarrassing.
    4) Where is the debt from? His tax returns may indicate that "Russia" lent him money, or that he is severely indebted to the banking system. It may be a staggeringly high amount of debt, or he may be embarrassed about the type/grade of debt.

  24. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I would not share mine . Nothing to be gained .


    It it is in the Constitution: "excluding Indians not taxed"


    what would you have to share?
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    You do know that you are a moron right?

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Just for the record, 99% of the time I say "In my country........" I am actually messing with you people because I know you guys have absolutely no idea what happens in my country.

    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of apportionment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  25. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    yeah, because NOT having thousands, or even millions of political enemies trolling through your tax returns looking for a mistake or something to bitch about has no benefit.
    And many Democrat politicians are corrupt lawyers/prosecutors. Many that use tax laws, threat of audit, etc. to fleece the hard working man.
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    You do know that you are a moron right?

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Just for the record, 99% of the time I say "In my country........" I am actually messing with you people because I know you guys have absolutely no idea what happens in my country.

    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of apportionment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  26. #25

    Default

    ....ugh...republicrats...

    ...all i know is if puppet trump were a stinking 'd' most/all the stinking, rabid r's would be doing the howling for transparency and most/all the stinking d's would be doing the apologizing...fkn idiots all....

  27. #26

    Default

    I would vote 'other', because I don't care. If I voted.
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    Yeah, I like cops. They keep the streets safe. Get over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The Fed is NOT safe from audit, Trump has said he wants to audit the fed and we may have some bills coming up soon.

    Trump is helping Rand pass his healthcare plan, if you think Trump actually supported RyanCare then you are foolish and you need to go read the threads where I addressed this topic. Rand was talking to Trump 2-3 times a week, and Rand told Trump straight up it wasn't going to pass, it didn't have the votes. Trump knew it wasn't going to pass, so he supported it to make sure it was all Paul Ryan's failure and none of it could be blamed on him. Trump hates Paul Ryan.

    Trump is going to help save Syria, with Russia's help.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    It is not about brainwashing. You can support Trump for practical reasons. I think Danno is right about the Syria missile strikes helping Trump politically in the US. The media stopped talking about the sickening russian narrative. Proof again it was just a hoax to manipulate the public opinion.

    Trump made a good call as a politician. Libertarian souls can bitch all they want about principles and being conned. Trump is going to disappointed again. I have enough hairchest.

    Just answer the question. Which game is Trump playing?

  28. #27

    Default

    Has Donald Trump Ever Been Rich?

    I had always thought of Donald Trump as someone who had once been very rich, lost a great deal of money, and now tried to pass off his fractional fortune as the bounty of a Midas. This ancient article, “All of the People, All the Time” from the valuable Spy magazine archive puts that idea to rest for me. This creature was always a nuisance, and never rich.

    I excerpt the beginning, three interesting points, and its conclusion.

    The opening:

    YOU CAN FOOL ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME

    How Donald Trump Fooled the Media, Used the Media to Fool Banks, Used the Banks to Fool the Bondholders and Used the Bondholders to Pay for the Yachts and Mansions and Mistresses

    by John Connolly

    With his bluster and his extravagance and his tabloid love life, Donald Trump has always been a source of considerable entertainment. If we’re honest, we all have to admit that after his every achievement in greed or vanity we’ve said to ourselves, Heck, you’ve gotta love that guy! Like some funny, impossibly venal puppet in a Punch-and-Judy show, Trump has always given us a good laugh. In fact, Trump’s image as a buffoon is just another example of how the press has protected him from real scrutiny for so long. While one would prefer not to be considered a joke, that is not so bad if it distracts people from seeing what one really is: a charlatan, a liar, a cheat. But if Trump has thrown the press and public off his trail during the last year, he has not managed the same trick with law enforcement. SPY has learned that Trump’s 1988 sale of Resorts International to Merv Griffin is now the subject of two criminal investigations, one by the FBI. “We are looking into the organized-crime [side of it],” says a law-enforcement official. Furthermore, John Sweeney of the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement confirms that his agency is also studying Trump’s participation in the Resorts deal.

    A former…well, top Trump executive told SPY he considers Trump “evil incarnate.” A mobster who knew Trump socially said of him once, “He’d lie to you about what time of day it is – just for the practice.” And indeed, a close study of Trump’s actions over the past few years reveals a man addicted to deception, a man who invested like a fool, a man who shaved from deals and bled failing companies of cash so that he could live with absurd excess, a man who borrowed huge amounts from credulous banks and investors, a man who not only is not now a billionaire but never had $1 billion or $500 million or – very possibly – even $100 million and who has been strapped since 1987. Donald Trump is not just some cartoon character, a guy with a comb-over and a press agent and a board game named after him; he is and always has been a real and fairly treacherous human being.

    In the history of finance, Donald Trump will be known for one brilliant innovation. No one before Trump had used the press so cunningly to give himself legitimacy with creditors. Trump made the media his balance sheet. Reports of Trump’s wealth in newspapers and especially in sober business magazines such as Fortune and Forbes and Business Week were the basis upon which banks lent him money and the public bought his bonds.

    A spokesman for Arthur Andersen, Trump’s accountants until 1990, admitted to SPY that they had never conducted a financial audit of Donald Trump. Andersen did conduct “financial reviews” – the term for a very superficial analysis of management and procedures, a once-over quite unlike an audit, which would include the accountants’ solemn opinion of the finances under examination. Sources at Chase Manhattan and Citibank – from which Trump borrowed $290 million and $990 million, respectively – say that although Trump may have given the bank audited financial statements for certain specific properties, they never had an audited statement of Donald Trump and his finances generally. Bankers Trust – which has lent Trump more than $100 million with no collateral – declined to comment for this article. Manufacturers Hanover – which has lent Trump $160 million – also declined to comment.

    Two of the most powerful banks in the world report that no one ever audited Donald Trump. Some of the loans that the banks made to Trump even had provisions stating that if his net worth fell below a certain level ($600 million, for example), Trump would have to pay back the loans immediately. Very prudent – except that the banks never insisted that Trump verify his net worth by audit.

    So, without audits, often without collateral, how did Trump manage to borrow all that money? Well, every one knew that Donald Trump was a billionaire, and who wouldn’t lend money to a billionaire? Banks are in the business of making loans, and in the overheated eighties, a banker couldn’t wait to make a loan to Donald Trump. The banks and the people who bought Trump’s bonds were influenced by the news accounts of Trump’s billions.

    If Trump had told the press the truth, or if the press had held his claims up to even a rudimentary level of scrutiny, then Trump might not owe the banks $2 billion on which he has suspended interest payments, and he might not have sold $1.277 billion in bonds that are now worth only $493 million. But Trump didn’t tell the truth, and the media were pathetically gullible. Even the press reports of Ivana’s prenuptial agreement are wrong – it is for $10 million, not $25 million. The information presented below is not based on hindsight – if journalists had been inclined to look, they could have found out the truth at any time.

    Interesting point one:

    Trump Tower and the Grand Hyatt were Trump’s first major projects. Both were initiated when New York was still reeling from the fiscal crisis of the mid-seventies and was willing to make any deal with any developer, just as long as he developed. As New York’s economy took off in the early eighties, the deals made Trump look like a winner. What the media have ignored for purposes of assessing Trump’s wealth and ability, though, is that neither project was Trump’s alone. The Hyatt, a renovation of the 64-year-old Commodore Hotel, is half owned by the Pritzker family of Chicago. Equitable Life holds the mortgage to the hotel, and since the Pritzkers presumably really are worth about $5 billion, Equitable probably felt safe entering a deal with them. What did Trump bring? He knew his way around city government, so he won the tax abatements that made the Hyatt a success.

    Equitable then agreed to be Trump’s partner in Trump Tower, putting up half the money. Equitable sold those condos at the height of the market and then wanted out of the market and then wanted out of the retail and commercial space. Trump bought them out with a $75 million loan from Chase Manhattan. He has come to them with other plans, but they have decided to pass on these ventures.
    It is difficult to determine exactly what value to place on Trump’s equity in the Hyatt and Trump Tower. One popular misconception is easily remedied, however: Donald Trump in no sense owns Trump Tower. The condominiums that make up all but 19 floors of the building are owned, of course, by the people who bought the apartments. Trump owns only the retail space and his apartment and office. He surely made some money on those condominiums, with Equitable’s help, and the Hyatt continues to be profitable. But like a movie star with a couple of early hits, Trump traded on those successes for a decade.

    Two:

    During our look into Trump’s stock transactions, we came across an interesting item. In 1986, Trump, the “billionaire,” needed $31 million to meet a margin call for his purchase of Bally Corporation stock. The funds to meet the margin call came from his Holiday Corporation stock profits; a credit line from Bankers Trust; a distribution from Trump Equitable 5th Avenue Corporation, which is the agent for Trump Tower commercial space; miscellaneous credit lines from other banks; and a 1985 federal income tax refund. All this desperate scrounging by a top-of-his-form billionaire for a measly $31 million.

    And three; the cited article is “The Unmaking of a Documentary” by Edwin Diamond.

    “[Trump] had the accounting firm of Arthur Andersen & Company do a special audit. The CPAs declared Trump had cash assets of $700,125,00 as of November 30, 1988…So much for Trump’s not being as big as he says he is”
    – “The Unmaking of a Documentary,” New York, September 4, 1989

    Ah, yes, “So much for Trump’s not being as big as he says he is.” In some ways, his use of the Arthur Andersen letter is Trump’s most elegant deception. The accountants’ carefully worded letter did say – perfectly accurately – that on the specified date Trump had $700,125,000 in cash, cash equivalents and marketable securities. Having seen the lengths to which Trump was driven in order to raise a mere #31 million back in late 1986, we may be surprised to learn that on a typical day in 1988 he had 20 times that in liquid assets. Fortunately, a simple explanation presents itself: if one interprets it properly, which the Trump-adoring editors at New York were in no way inclined to do, the Andersen letter actually demonstrates that on November 30, 1988, Donald Trump was $20 million in the red.

    The date of the review was not the end of a fiscal year or quarter, but neither was it arbitrary. It happened to be eight days after Merrill Lynch had given Trump $651 million in cash specifically for the purpose of building the Taj Mahal. The money had been raised through a junk-bond offering. The accountants’ letter made only passing reference to the possibility that any of the $700 million was earmarked for specific projects. It also failed to explain that the marketable securities were shares in Alexander’s department stores – stock that Trump had borrowed $69 million from Citibank and Bear Stearns to buy.

    Andersen stated that Trump had $700 million in cash and stock. Deduct the $69 million owed on the stock, and that leaves Trump with $631 million. But Merrill Lynch had just given Trump $651 million for the Taj Mahal, so, in fact, he was “overdrawn” for $20 million.

    The conclusion. The Castle referred to is the Trump Castle Casino, an Atlantic City casino, now called the Atlantic City Golden Nugget.

    A fool and a liar and a deadbeat Trump may be, but no one can say that he doesn’t have touching, human qualities. Take his solicitude to his aging father. In January, The Wall Street Journal reported that Trump had surreptitiously borrowed $3 million from Fred Trump to help him make an $18.4 million Castle Casino bond payment. A week before Christmas, Trump had Howard Snyder, an attorney for his father, walk into the Castle, go up to the cashier’s window, buy $3 million in chips and leave with those chips. With that $3 million, Trump had the money he needed to make the bond payment.

    The CCC requires that all loans be reported. Needless to say, Trump did not advise the Commission of the loan from Fred. “We found out about [the transaction] the next day. We began to look into it right away,” John Sweeney, the new director of the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement, told SPY. “We sent a letter to the Trump Organization saying, ‘We are treating it as a loan.'” This is what things have come to for Donald Trump. The boy from Queens had to go back to Queens for a bailout.

    Addendum, added on September 17th, 2013:

    While reading Mark Singer’s collection of profiles, Character Studies, I came across the one source of actual, substantial income by which one might label Trump rich, not mega-rich, not the wealth of Midas that he affects, but still very rich. It occurred after his supposed heyday, with the sale of his share of the Grand Hyatt Hotel to the Pritzkers. I give it over to Singer:

    Then, last October, Trump came into possession of what a normal prson would regard as real money. For $142 million, he sold his half interest in the Grand Hyatt Hotel, on Forty-second Street, to the Pritzker family, of Chicago, his longtime, and long-estranged, partners in the property. Most of the proceeds weren’t his to keep, but he walked away with more than $25 million. The chief significance of the Grand Hyatt sale was that it enabled Trump to extinguish the remnants of his once monstrous personally guaranteed debt. When Forbes published its annual list of the four hundred richest Americans, he sneaked on (373rd position) with an estimated net worth of $450 million. Trump, meanwhile, had compiled his own unaudited appraisal, one he was willing to share along with the amusing caveat “I’ve never shown this to a reporter before.” According to his calculations, he was actually worth $2.25 billion – Forbes had low-balled him by 80 percent. Still, he had officially rejoined the plutocracy, his first appearance since the blip.

    I hand off the ending of this post to the ending of Singer’s own piece, which is as memorable and well-written as anything in the collection. The profile came out shortly after Trump’s first divorce:

    Next, we headed north, to Mount Kisco, in Westchester County – specifically to Seven Springs, a fifty-five-room limestone-and-granite Georgian splendor completed in 1917 by Eugene Meyer, the father of Katharine Graham. If things proceeded according to plan, within a year and a half the house would become the centerpiece of the Trump Mansion at Seven Springs, a golf club where anyone willing to part with $250,000 could tee up....
    From the rear terrace, Trump mapped out some holes of the golf course: an elevated tee above a par thre, across a ravine filled with laurel and dogwood; a couple of parallel par fours above the slope that led to a reservoir. Then he turned to me and said, “I bought this whole thing for seven and a half million dollars. People ask, ‘How’d you do that?” I said, ‘I don’t know.’ Does that make sense?” Not really, nor did his next utterance: “You know, nobody’s ever seen a granite house before.”

    Granite? Nobody? Never? In the history of humankind? Impressive....
    In Trump’s office the other morning, I asked whether, in light of his domestic shuffle, he planned to change his living arrangements. He smiled for the first time that day and said, “Where am I going to live? That might be the most difficult question you’ve asked so far. I want to finish the work on my apartment at Trump International. That should take a few months, maybe two, maybe six. And then I think I’ll live there for maybe six months. Let’s just say, for a period of time. The buildings always work better when I’m living there.”

    What about the Trump Tower apartment? Would that sit empty?

    “Well, I wouldn’t sell that. And, of course, there’s no one who would ever build an apartment like that. The penthouse at Trump International isn’t nearly as big. It’s maybe seven thousand square feet. But it’s got a living room that is the most spectacular residential room in New York. A twenty-five-foot ceiling. I’m telling you, the best room anywhere. Do you understand?”

    I think I did: the only apartment with a better view than the best apartment in the world was the same apartment. Except for the one across the park, which had the most spectacular living room in the world. No one had ever seen a granite house before. And, most important, every square inch belonged to Trump, who had aspired to and achieved the ultimate luxury, an existence unmolested by the rumbling of a soul. “Trump” – a fellow with universal recognition but with a suspicion that an interior life was an intolerable inconvenience, a creature everywhere and nowhere, uniquely capable of inhabiting it all at once, all alone.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  29. #28

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    i voted other, because no matter what they say they will be used to hurt him at this point.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    I would vote 'other', because I don't care. If I voted.
    Ditto.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    I would vote 'other', because I don't care. If I voted.
    As big of a jackass that Trump is, some of his detractors focus myopically on some of the most mundane "scandals." It probably started with B. Clinton. He bombs Serbia and all Americans can do is talk about how fat Monica Lewinski was.

    But for the sake of The Texan, please vote. It will warm his heart.

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