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Thread: Massie Still A Firm "No" On Latest Trumpcare Bill

  1. #1

    Default Massie Still A Firm "No" On Latest Trumpcare Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Massie Tweet
    The AHCA is like a kidney stone- the House doesn't care what happens to it, as long as they can pass it. #sassywithmassie
    Amash hasn't publicly commented, but you can imagine where he stands.

    In short, some of the Freedom Caucus folded, not all of them.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken



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  3. #2

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    $8 Billion Deal Gives Crucial Momentum to G.O.P. Health Bill

    WASHINGTON — Two Republican lawmakers who had come out against the House bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act earlier this week
    reversed course on Wednesday and threw their support behind the plan after securing more money to help people with pre-existing medical conditions.

    Representatives Fred Upton of Michigan, an influential voice in Republican health policy, and Billy Long of Missouri, a close ally of President Trump’s, told reporters after a meeting with Mr. Trump on Wednesday that the latest revisions had won them over.

    Those included $8 billion in additional funds over five years to supplement the insurance of people with pre-existing health problems.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/03/u...alth-bill.html
    (circa June 2016)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    45th President will be the worst in U.S. history

  4. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    $8 Billion Deal Gives Crucial Momentum to G.O.P. Health Bill


    WASHINGTON — Two Republican lawmakers who had come out against the House bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act earlier this week
    reversed course on Wednesday and threw their support behind the plan after securing more money to help people with pre-existing medical conditions.

    Representatives Fred Upton of Michigan, an influential voice in Republican health policy, and Billy Long of Missouri, a close ally of President Trump’s, told reporters after a meeting with Mr. Trump on Wednesday that the latest revisions had won them over. Those included $8 billion in additional funds over five years to supplement the insurance of people with pre-existing health problems.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/03/u...alth-bill.html
    Upton had previously sponsored and supported full repeals during Obama's presidency. Suddenly he's a moderate and wants to keep many of Obamacare's provisions.
    Last edited by TheCount; 05-03-2017 at 12:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    Trump is playing a real game of chess. I feel blessed that my intuition made me support him back in September 2015.
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    I think [Trump] is going to cut the budget.
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    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Upton had previously sponsored and supported full repeals during Obama's presidency. Suddenly he's a moderate and wants to keep many of Obamacare's provisions.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  6. #5

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    Massie opposes it for all of the right reasons (because it is big govt socialism and ineffective at enabling true competitive markets).

    The "moderate" GOP RINOs oppose it because it is not socialist enough.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Amash hasn't publicly commented, but you can imagine where he stands.

    In short, some of the Freedom Caucus folded, not all of them.
    IIRC, Massie is not an official member of the Freedom Caucus.

    bf454886c82e31cb1303497f87b7f20e.jpg
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 05-03-2017 at 12:44 PM.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    IIRC, Massie is not an official member of the Freedom Caucus.
    Huh, you're right. I just assumed.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  9. #8

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    Originally Posted by Massie Tweet

    The AHCA is like a kidney stone- the House doesn't care what happens to it, as long as they can pass it. #sassywithmassie
    Massie... This guy would complain about getting hung with a new rope.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    IIRC, Massie is not an official member of the Freedom Caucus.
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Huh, you're right. I just assumed.
    fwiw, the House Freedom Caucus does not disclose the names of its members. In the current 115th Congress, the group has about three dozen members. A number of members have identified themselves, or have been identified by others, as members of the Freedom Caucus, as of March 2017 including:

    (Amash, Sanford . . . no Massie)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Caucus
    (circa June 2016)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    45th President will be the worst in U.S. history

  11. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    fwiw, the House Freedom Caucus does not disclose the names of its members. In the current 115th Congress, the group has about three dozen members. A number of members have identified themselves, or have been identified by others, as members of the Freedom Caucus, as of March 2017 including:

    (Amash, Sanford . . . no Massie)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Caucus
    Right but Massie has publicly stated in multiple interviews that he is not a member.
    Freedom index

    ~Resident Badgiraffe





  12. #11

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    That's unfortunate. This bill is the best that we could possibly get. Full repeal has no chance of getting through Congress, which means that we're going to get stuck with all of Obamacare forever.

  13. #12

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    Opposing partial repeal of Obamacare makes as much sense as opposing cutting tax rates from 20% to 15% just because the IRS isn't abolished completely. It makes no sense to not take incremental gains.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    That's unfortunate. This bill is the best that we could possibly get. Full repeal has no chance of getting through Congress, which means that we're going to get stuck with all of Obamacare forever.
    A reason for full repeal . . . with a requirement/amendment for a replacement done separately as a one week - 6 months later/extension.

    It is how you can get the Senate to consider it as a reconciliation with a simple majority needed . . .
    and the only way Dims will get involved in something that doesn't make the nation 1/5 socialist and make the country more in debt and broke.

    Ryan only needs to put the full clean, simple repeal bill already there for a House vote - if Senate balks at Ocare repeal then it is on them.
    (circa June 2016)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    45th President will be the worst in U.S. history

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    A reason for full repeal . . . with a requirement/amendment for a replacement done separately as a one week - 6 months later/extension.

    It is how you can get the Senate to consider it as a reconciliation with a simple majority needed . . .
    and the only way Dims will get involved in something that doesn't make the nation 1/5 socialist and make the country more in debt and broke.

    Ryan only needs to put the full clean, simple repeal bill already there for a House vote - if Senate balks at Ocare repeal then it is on them.
    I'm not sure what you mean. A large number of moderate/liberal Republicans in the house and Senate have stated that they're opposed to a clean, full repeal of Obamacare, which means that it has no chance at all to actually pass.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean. A large number of moderate/liberal Republicans in the house and Senate have stated that they're opposed to a clean, full repeal of Obamacare, which means that it has no chance at all to actually pass.
    Maybe because the need to replace it with something . . .
    but I'd see a problem exists in that tweaking of Ocare is going to lead to a constitutional challenge anyway - tip that 5-4 vote.

    If that constitutional muster fails, then what (?)

    If there are GOP Congressman elected on the premise/promise of a repeal and they don't vote for repeal (phase one),
    then they can explain that to voters in 18 months.
    (circa June 2016)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    45th President will be the worst in U.S. history

  17. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    Maybe because the need to replace it with something . . .
    but I'd see a problem exists in that tweaking of Ocare is going to lead to a constitutional challenge anyway - tip that 5-4 vote.

    If that constitutional muster fails, then what (?)

    If there are GOP Congressman elected on the premise/promise of a repeal and they don't vote for repeal (phase one),
    then they can explain that to voters in 18 months.
    I support voting on full repeal and exposing the Congressmen who vote against it, especially when these same Congressmen voted for full repeal when Obama was President. But, if full repeal is voted on and fails, I don't have a problem accepting partial repeal because that would lead to a better result than keeping Obamacare in its entirety.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    if full repeal is voted on and fails, . . .
    Then we are where we are now . . . but that partial repeal will lead to a Supreme Court challenge either way.
    If this partial repeal gets ruled unconstitutional - which I maintain Ryan's first attempt was anyway - then it goes back to Obamacare 1.0 (?)

    If Dems realize Ocare is repealed - with a separate distinct clause/amendment that a replacement (some replacement) will start (about the earliest now could be Jan 1, 2019),
    then both parties have a reason to work at coming up with something better for the 1/5 of the economy that healthcare has become supposedly.
    (circa June 2016)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    45th President will be the worst in U.S. history

  19. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    Then we are where we are now . . . but that partial repeal will lead to a Supreme Court challenge either way.
    If this partial repeal gets ruled unconstitutional - which I maintain Ryan's first attempt was anyway - then it goes back to Obamacare 1.0 (?)

    If Dems realize Ocare is repealed - with a separate distinct clause/amendment that a replacement (some replacement) will start (about the earliest now could be Jan 1, 2019),
    then both parties have a reason to work at coming up with something better for the 1/5 of the economy that healthcare has become supposedly.
    Why do you think partial repeal would be ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court?

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    Why do you think partial repeal would be ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court?
    It depends what it is of course . . . based on Ryan's first plan with a mandate paid to insurance monopolies and effectively an "age tax" -
    all to replace the 5-4 Supreme Court win for Obamacare 1.0 . . . let's say I am not impressed.

    If Ocare version 2.0 (not voted on) or now 2.1 were to fail a constitutional challenge, you then just go back ?
    I see it as a problem, so repeal first seems important.
    (circa June 2016)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    45th President will be the worst in U.S. history

  21. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    It depends what it is of course . . . based on Ryan's first plan with a mandate paid to insurance monopolies and effectively an "age tax" -
    all to replace the 5-4 Supreme Court win for Obamacare 1.0 . . . let's say I am not impressed.

    If Ocare version 2.0 (not voted on) or now 2.1 were to fail a constitutional challenge, you then just go back ?
    I see it as a problem, so repeal first seems important.
    Do you know if the newest bill that's being voted on still includes the provision that forces people to pay a fine to the insurance companies if they have a lapse in coverage?

  22. #21

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    Does this new bill move us closer to free healthcare?
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean. A large number of moderate/liberal Republicans in the house and Senate have stated that they're opposed to a clean, full repeal of Obamacare, which means that it has no chance at all to actually pass.
    Suppose that nothing is passed, and it's clear to everyone that the obstacle was those moderate/liberal Republicans, wallowing in hypocrisy.

    ...might this not result in fewer moderate/liberal Republicans next term?
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Suppose that nothing is passed, and it's clear to everyone that the obstacle was those moderate/liberal Republicans, wallowing in hypocrisy.

    ...might this not result in fewer moderate/liberal Republicans next term?
    It's not likely, because most of them represent more moderate and liberal districts.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    It's not likely, because most of them represent more moderate and liberal districts.
    Probably true, but a rebranding of Obamacare that makes no meaningful changes while allowing these types off the hook is worse than nothing.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Probably true, but a rebranding of Obamacare that makes no meaningful changes while allowing these types off the hook is worse than nothing.
    I don't necessarily think the current bill makes no meaningful changes because the bill repeals some of the Obamacare regulations and allows the states to opt out of others.

  27. #26

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    When its time to worry, we'll hear about it from Rand, lmao.
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    Every time you click on the attack articles, you are literally paying them for attacking Rand. If you really want people to see, quote the entire article and break the link.

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  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    Do you know if the newest bill that's being voted on still includes the provision that forces people to pay a fine to the insurance companies if they have a lapse in coverage?
    No, and even besides the fine there are constitutionality questions probably in any tweaking of the 5-4 win for the AHCA of 2010.

    So, I make the decision that I would only need dental care for my optimal care this year . . . baring any catastrophic medical need.
    In a free market I might want catastrophic health insurance and dental insurance . . . why should government force me into a contract with a monoploy ?
    (circa June 2016)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    45th President will be the worst in U.S. history

  29. #28

    Default

    I support the Care For Yourself Act.

    Repeal Bammycare and call it "mission accomplished".

    Never happen, but a guy can dream. Another of Pandora's boxes has been opened, and stuffing the little wingèd darling back in will not be on the agenda. Some thresholds, once crossed, are almost impossibly unlikely ever to be visited again. This is what FAIL buys us.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.






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