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Thread: Freedom Caucus Folds : "We're not repealing Obamacare."

  1. #31
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    Carroll Quigley was right. It's no longer conjecture or conspiratorial hearsay.




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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Carroll Quigley was right. It's no longer conjecture or conspiratorial hearsay.

    Of course it's not...we've been warned about this for 60 years or more now.

    It was decided post WWII that we would not be allowed to run our own lives, let alone our own government.



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  5. #33
    The only way we don't lose Republican seats in the next election is if we get something passed.

    So the best thing to do, is to pass whatever bill Ryan puts on the table, and then spend the next 4 years talking about how great it is.

    It's the best way forward. Otherwise we'll lose seats to the Democrats in the next election (which would be even worse).
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  6. #34
    I can't believe anybody here actually thought Obamacare was going to be repealed. Even Rand knew there was not going to be a full repeal and that is why he introduced a replacement.

    We have a lot of slow libertarians here.
    THE SQUAD of RPF
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    @Ehanced_Deficit's real agenda on RPF =troll:

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    7 yrs/25k posts later RPF'ers still respond to this troll

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    I can't believe anybody here actually thought Obamacare was going to be repealed. Even Rand knew there was not going to be a full repeal and that is why he introduced a replacement.

    We have a lot of slow libertarians here.
    Paul Ryan made a very convincing argument on why it can't be repealed. Obamacare is such a disaster, and has caused such disastrous consequences, that it can't be repealed - because that would be even more of a disaster.

    We have to be smart about it, like repealing parts of Obamacare and replacing those parts with something better. Like free healthcare.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  8. #36
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    Paul Ryan's first plan - with Trump diving headfirst into the quicksand fast enough - was worse than Ocare is - and arguably lacking enough constitutional muster, if considered as an age tax mandated to insurance monopolies.

    The Freedom Caucus prevented a worse mistake in round one, although Ryan-Trumpcare was DOA in the Senate with at least Mike Lee and Rand looking like no votes.

    A 100 days in . . . with a majority in his House as well as over in the Senate, and the GOP nominee winning the WH -
    and Paul Ryan has managed the GOP "losing seats" scenarios - it didn't take him, along with Rinse Pubis in the WH, all that long to eff up with those majorities.
    Last edited by Jan2017; 04-27-2017 at 06:32 PM.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    I guess we better vote harder.
    There is no fixing the federal government. Something like that might work in a low population state that already leans somewhat pro-liberty.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  10. #38
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    Paul Ryan is saying that House will vote "when they have the votes" . . .
    No "artificial deadline" this time [look-ey . . . Paul Ryan is "learning" some]

    NYTimes counts 18 GOP moderates that could vote "no" -
    22 votes (?) is the magic number for another Ryan loss with this Ocare revision 2.1

  11. #39
    The Freedom Caucus, a congressional caucus formed in 2015 by conservative members of the House, has been persuaded to support the latest health care bill thanks to the MacArthur Amendment, which would allow states to seek waivers for Affordable Care Act provisions that aim to protect people with pre-existing conditions.
    what a totally gutless amendment too. putting the blame on the individual states to remove the preexisting conditions clause. also don't like the sound of "seek waivers" which implies it could be denied.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Focus on taxes now, this may be a strategy to get the tax plan passed.
    You mean like the last health care battle was a strategy to get Ryan ousted?

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    When the health care battle comes up again we will see if this is true.
    Jam tomorrow, jam yesterday, never jam today.


    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law." - The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." - Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      - Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      - Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·
    MOFA (Make Orwell Fiction Again)



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  14. #41
    Freedom Caucus chair: Trump ‘just a few’ votes short on health care bill

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...l-votes-237740

  15. #42
    If a GOP controlled everything can't do THE simplest thing they campaigned on, repeal obamacare, then they should just suck start a pistol and let the dems run everything.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by HitoKichi View Post
    Maybe if we run for the hills and the pine forests and live like hitchhikers the situation will resolve itself
    HitoKitchi, I don't know who you are, but with that post I no longer believe you're a teenager. It's too cynical and sophisticated.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    If a GOP controlled everything can't do THE simplest thing they campaigned on, repeal obamacare, then they should just suck start a pistol and let the dems run everything.
    Sums it up.

    If Republicans want to win (which would be mostly, though not all, very good for us), all they need to do is follow my simple, guaranteed-to-succeed plan:

    • Eliminate the fillibuster.

    Steamroll through everything.

    Steamroll through everything else.

    Keep steamrolling.

    Repeal every last thing that the Democrats have ever passed for the past 128 (because not Cleveland -- some of his stuff can stay (though not ICC)) years.

    Pass everything you can think of that Democrats will hate. It doesn't even matter if it's bad or good, just that the Democrats hate it. The more they hate it, the better.

    Take all money away from every leftist nexus: single moms, unions, minorities, universities. Bleed them dry. Don't leave them a penny. I'm not talking just stop giving them trillions (obvious), I'm talking take away all their stuff. Confiscate it. Burn it. Make them destitute, starving on the streets.

    • Make 100 new federal circuits. The left stacked the bench under Carter. There's never been any counter. Any response. The Right just let them get away with it. The courts have been permanently leftist ever since. So.... that's over. 100 new circuits. All staffed by the most hard-core, militant, traditionalist right-wing ninjas on planet Earth.

    Reverse every precedent. Undo it all.

    Make it un-Constitutional to not segregate schools. Again, it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, just that the left goes apoplectic. Make it un-Constitutional to get divorced. Make being a single mother a Federal crime, falling under treason, and threaten to start hanging them. There's an almost unlimited number of ideas to be tried! Poke those r-selected amygdalae.

    • Targeted assassinations. The left has long been willing to kill to win, and has repeatedly done so. With success. With impunity. And with no consequences, no counter-killings. It's been the most one-sided war of all time. So kill them. Kill them all.



    That is how to win, @Matt Collins. It's all quite doable. First step: want to win.
    Last edited by helmuth_hubener; 04-28-2017 at 10:30 AM.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Sums it up.

    If Republicans want to win (which would be mostly, though not all, very good for us), all they need to do is follow my simple, guaranteed-to-succeed plan:

    • Eliminate the fillibuster.

    Steamroll through everything.

    Steamroll through everything else.

    Keep steamrolling.

    Repeal every last thing that the Democrats have ever passed for the past 128 (because not Cleveland -- some of his stuff can stay (though not ICC)) years.

    Pass everything you can think of that Democrats will hate. It doesn't even matter if it's bad or good, just that the Democrats hate it. The more they hate it, the better.

    Take all money away from every leftist nexus: single moms, unions, minorities, universities. Bleed them dry. Don't leave them a penny. I'm not talking just stop giving them trillions (obvious), I'm talking take away all their stuff. Confiscate it. Burn it. Make them destitute, starving on the streets.

    • Make 100 new federal circuits. The left stacked the bench under Carter. There's never been any counter. Any response. The Right just let them get away with it. The courts have been permanently leftist ever since. So.... that's over. 100 new circuits. All staffed by the most hard-core, militant, traditionalist right-wing ninjas on planet Earth.

    Reverse every precedent. Undo it all.

    Make it un-Constitutional to not segregate schools. Again, it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, just that the left goes apoplectic. Make it un-Constitutional to get divorced. Make being a single mother a Federal crime, falling under treason, and threaten to start hanging them. There's an almost unlimited number of ideas to be tried! Poke those r-selected amygdalae.

    • Targeted assassinations. The left has long been willing to kill to win, and has repeatedly done so. With success. With impunity. And with no consequences, no counter-killings. It's been the most one-sided war of all time. So kill them. Kill them all.



    That is how to win, @Matt Collins. It's all quite doable. First step: want to win.
    A man can dream, but I think civil war would happen long before the gop grew even the tiniest set of balls.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    A man can dream, but I think civil war would happen long before the gop grew even the tiniest set of balls.
    Yeah. One thing to remember, though: there is no "The GOP" any more than there's "The Democrats." All you need is people. Some people. Very few, relatively. But with extreme commitment. There aren't that many ultra-leftists bombing buildings and assassinating strategic targets, but there are more than enough that they've had a huge impact on history. All you'd need is a few rightist killers to make a huge impact and level the field of play.

  20. #47
    Did it ever occur to anyone here that the Republicans are not repealing the ACA because, well...they actually like it?

    Not that they agree with providing universal health care of course but now that its the law of the land they can consistently oppose it, denounce it, run against, raise money in their opposition, and let it go on so long as the issue exists that fires up their base of support against it. That's why they call it "Obamacare". Their base hates "Obama", get it?

    And in fact the ACA becomes useful because as premiums rise they can always blame the Dems for it as they did last year (which proved to be very important in Trump's win) and if operates incompetently as govt' programs often do, they can use the example to say "big government doesn 't work."

    And at the same time, so long as most people are covered (more or less), they don't have to worry about constructing their own plan that will be incredibly unpopular because they don't believe in universal coverage.

    So what you see is really a charade of opposition to make it seem like they're trying to do something about Obamacare when the reality is they've made their peace with it and look to use it to their political advantage.

    Rand Paul is the same way. He's knows his "plan" has no chance in hell in passing but so long as he holds out for "his plan" any repeal of the ACA will never pass the Senate and thus its still safe for all his Kentucky constituents to take advantage of.

    And why should House members stick out their political necks for something that's not going to pass the Senate? Hmmm?

    So why would they repeal it when it in reality it benefits them in the end? As someone who sees the same dynamic at work from the GOP when it comes to abortion (the GOP will run against Roe v. Wade but doesn't want to see it overturned) do not underestimate the depth of their cynicism and their knowledge that most GOP voters are more than willing chumps and suckers, as Conservative INC. proves again and again.

    The Rollins video is the perfect example of the relationship between the Trump voter and Trump.
    Last edited by Badger Paul; 04-28-2017 at 03:38 PM.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    There is no fixing the federal government. Something like that might work in a low population state that already leans somewhat pro-liberty.
    I agree, I think Texas is a great place to focus our efforts
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Actually it is true. If enough RINOs lose their primaries next year over this, then it will make it easier for full repeal the next time around. Sorry you are unable to think more than one step at a time.
    The only way that happens is if the Fed free money spigot is shut off so that special interests can't buy elections. That may very well happen before the next primaries but if that happens, there won't be any elections because we'd be in the midst of a collapse and martial law scenario.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    But now you can't talk to people because of "social distancing"....brought to you by shills and politicians.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Actually it is true. If enough RINOs lose their primaries next year over this, then it will make it easier for full repeal the next time around. Sorry you are unable to think more than one step at a time.
    I think we can do it but we'll need your help. Can you get 3-4 more Rand's elected for us in the next cycle?

    You're the only one I know that can do this
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    If a GOP controlled everything can't do THE simplest thing they campaigned on, repeal obamacare, then they should just suck start a pistol and let the dems run everything.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jllundqu again.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I think we can do it but we'll need your help. Can you get 3-4 more Rand's elected for us in the next cycle?

    You're the only one I know that can do this
    I was actually about to +rep you for this, because it was very funny, but you know what? Forget that.

    Matt may be arrogant and annoying but he has actually done something. He stuck his neck out. He's done some work for the sake of trying to save this country. What are *you* doing? It's real easy to snipe and criticize and sneer at everything and everyone. To just sneeer.

    You're off-track. You wanna sneer? Sneer at the enemy. You don't sneer at your own.

    http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/getalifeloser

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    I was actually about to +rep you for this, because it was very funny, but you know what? Forget that.

    Matt may be arrogant and annoying but he has actually done something. He stuck his neck out. He's done some work for the sake of trying to save this country. What are *you* doing? It's real easy to snipe and criticize and sneer at everything and everyone. To just sneeer.

    You're off-track. You wanna sneer? Sneer at the enemy. You don't sneer at your own.

    http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/getalifeloser
    No, I'm serious, Matt may be the only one that can pull it off. I'm an amateur voter by comparison - Matt's the real deal.

    If it's possible to get liberty bills passed by a Federal congress, I am 100% confident that it would only be possible, with Matt's direct involvement.

    I really couldn't be more serious.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 04-28-2017 at 04:38 PM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Paul View Post
    Did it ever occur to anyone here that the Republicans are not repealing the ACA because, well...they actually like it?
    Umm, duh?

    That's the politicians, though, not the general Republican populace who obviously hate it, as they do so many other things. So, what needs to happen? For the laymen Republicans to start caring. A lot. Caring like the leftists care, not sort of halfheartedly like present. What's going to make them care? Well, SJW over-playing of their hand is helping. First anti-Trump and now Anti-fam rioting, also helpful.

    But what will really do it? More and more high-profile leftist gloating about how whites are soon to become a demographic minority (and an extremely hated, persecuted minority). This is the message, probably the only message (at least that comes to mind at the moment -- feel free to contribute your ideas for catalysts, anyone!), that will activate the K-selected amygdalas to finally frown, furrow their eyebrows, get slowly up out of their chairs, and start methodically destroying their enemies with a cold, implacable fury that will never die. Until all their enemies do.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I'm an amateur voter by comparison
    Matt is not encouraging anyone to vote any more than any number of other people on the site, and he is not doing it particularly often nor well. There is no risk of a sudden stampede of Matt-copycats forming from RPFs and wasting their time voting. None.

    Even if someone somewhere does decide to start voting, how much time will they spend on that per annum, vs. how much time you're spending per annum trying to convince them not to? Who is really wasting his time? Hmm?

    I haven't interfered with your project up to now. You want to waste your time endlessly satirizing voting, fine. You (presumably) think that will help further liberty somehow and make a contribution. Who am I to judge? But I could change my mind. And if you start/keep attacking specific liberty-lovers -- and attacking them specifically for the very efforts they have made to sincerely try to help you and further your agenda! -- then your caustic reign here may need to come to an end.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Paul View Post
    Did it ever occur to anyone here that the Republicans are not repealing the ACA because, well...they actually like it?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Matt is not encouraging anyone to vote any more than any number of other people on the site, and he is not doing it particularly often nor well. There is no risk of a sudden stampede of Matt-copycats forming from RPFs and wasting their time voting. None.

    Even if someone somewhere does decide to start voting, how much time will they spend on that per annum, vs. how much time you're spending per annum trying to convince them not to? Who is really wasting his time? Hmm?

    I haven't interfered with your project up to now. You want to waste your time endlessly satirizing voting, fine. You (presumably) think that will help further liberty somehow and make a contribution. Who am I to judge? But I could change my mind. And if you start/keep attacking specific liberty-lovers -- and attacking them specifically for the very efforts they have made to sincerely try to help you and further your agenda! -- then your caustic reign here may need to come to an end.
    Matt thinks its possible to kick the RINO's out and repeal Obamacare.

    And if that is actually possible... I firmly believe, it would only be possible, with Matt's help.

    I truly believe that.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Focus on taxes now, this may be a strategy to get the tax plan passed. When the health care battle comes up again we will see if this is true.
    I wonder if Trump's threat to the Freedom Caucus had any bearing on their change of tone?
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Paul View Post
    Did it ever occur to anyone here that the Republicans are not repealing the ACA because, well...they actually like it?

    Not that they agree with providing universal health care of course but now that its the law of the land they can consistently oppose it, denounce it, run against, raise money in their opposition, and let it go on so long as the issue exists that fires up their base of support against it. That's why they call it "Obamacare". Their base hates "Obama", get it?

    And in fact the ACA becomes useful because as premiums rise they can always blame the Dems for it as they did last year (which proved to be very important in Trump's win) and if operates incompetently as govt' programs often do, they can use the example to say "big government doesn 't work."

    And at the same time, so long as most people are covered (more or less), they don't have to worry about constructing their own plan that will be incredibly unpopular because they don't believe in universal coverage.

    So what you see is really a charade of opposition to make it seem like they're trying to do something about Obamacare when the reality is they've made their peace with it and look to use it to their political advantage.

    Rand Paul is the same way. He's knows his "plan" has no chance in hell in passing but so long as he holds out for "his plan" any repeal of the ACA will never pass the Senate and thus its still safe for all his Kentucky constituents to take advantage of.

    And why should House members stick out their political necks for something that's not going to pass the Senate? Hmmm?

    So why would they repeal it when it in reality it benefits them in the end? As someone who sees the same dynamic at work from the GOP when it comes to abortion (the GOP will run against Roe v. Wade but doesn't want to see it overturned) do not underestimate the depth of their cynicism and their knowledge that most GOP voters are more than willing chumps and suckers, as Conservative INC. proves again and again.

    The Rollins video is the perfect example of the relationship between the Trump voter and Trump.
    Public support for ACA hit a majority around the same time as the inauguration. Politically, it is headed in the direction of Medicare- old folks who vote don't like the politicians dicking around with the system they're used to and dependent on. Remember the "debate" in 2012 between Joe Biden and Paul Ryan, Biden just sat there and laughed at whatever Ryan was saying, then Biden would say something like, "folks, he wants to take away your health care and cut your Social Security. We're not gonna do that."
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    I wonder if Trump's threat to the Freedom Caucus had any bearing on their change of tone?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

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