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Thread: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am An Engineer' in an Email to the Government

  1. #1

    Default Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am An Engineer' in an Email to the Government

    Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am An Engineer' in an Email to the Government
    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...the-government
    An electronics engineer says he found a flaw in traffic lights. The Oregon engineering board fined him for it.

    In September 2014, Mats Järlström, an electronics engineer living in Beaverton, Oregon, sent an email to the state's engineering board. The email claimed that yellow traffic lights don't last long enough, which "puts the public at risk."

    "I would like to present these facts for your review and comments," he wrote.

    This email resulted not with a meeting, but with a threat. The Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying responded with this dystopian message:

    "ORS 672.020(1) prohibits the practice of engineering in Oregon without registration … at a minimum, your use of the title 'electronics engineer' and the statement 'I'm an engineer' … create violations."
    ...
    In January of this year, Järlström was officially fined $500 by the state for the crime of "practicing engineering without being registered."
    ...



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  3. #2

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    ^ he did it to himself

  4. #3

  5. #4

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    Three Felonies a Day

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am An Engineer' in an Email to the Government
    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...the-government
    Do we have an email address for these clowns? I have a message for them:

    Dear Oregon State Engineering Board,


    I am an engineer. Get over it. I suffered through four years of endlessly boring calculations to earn the title. You have no authority to deny my use of it.

    As an engineer, I have conducted measurements of your collective personal integrity and basic intelligence. My conclusions are that you are grossly and dangerously lacking in each, the deficiencies cause for concern over an imminent failure of the board's basic integrity. I have made all the calculations necessary for reaching this conclusion and will happily provide them at your request. They are done using very basic 3-component tensors, in order that even you might be able to understand them. I could dumb it down no further than that and retain the minimum sufficient conveyance of information.

    Feel free to fine me whatever sum you deem fitting for practicing engineering in Oregon without registering and I will enter that into my figures to recalculate the degree of danger you directly pose to the public as nitwits of the lowest order. I will be sure to use small words so you will be able to clearly understand the report.

    I await your response with baited breath and the full expectation that you will not disappoint.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.


    Be a warrior abhorrent of war, willing to wage it in the face of trespass.

  7. #6

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    yeah its on their letter.. phone number.. website... email etc...

  8. #7

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    I have no words. You'd think, after all these years, this kind of stuff wouldn't surprise me but these people always manage to somehow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am An Engineer' in an Email to the Government
    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...the-government
    It's stuff like ^this that leads to stuff like this.

    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    It's stuff like ^this that leads to stuff like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    It's stuff like ^this that leads to stuff like this.

    Stealing is not right, but I wouldn't convict if I were in the jury, much less recommend charges. However, I fully endorse rendering useless. Paintballs, water balloons filled with paint/oil, cardboard, etc.

    What a bunch of petty dumb $#@!s in Oregon.

  12. #11

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    I drove a train once .

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghengis86 View Post
    What a bunch of petty dumb $#@!s in Oregon.
    Petty? Certainly.

    Dumb? Not so much.

    If you read the OP article, Järlström paid the fine.

    This is why we can't have nice things ...

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    DO NOT TALK TO THE GOVERNMENT
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Occam's Banana again.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    It's stuff like ^this that leads to stuff like this.

    Did he pay taxes? If so he cannot steal that which is his.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  16. #15

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    The man is a fool. The only part of the government that actually listens to the people is the NSA. Everyone else just does everything in their collective power to prevent people from even talking to them. IE, fines, endless confusing menu options, sent to "website" or "app", mail, just "dont talk to us".
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  17. #16

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    Only part I really do not get is why would this guy think they cared if the lights were efficient ? If they are all screwed up I would guess they did it on purpose .

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Did he pay taxes? If so he cannot steal that which is his.
    He should have melted it down and sold off the evidence for scrap.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  19. #18

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    Update

    Oregon Man Fined for Writing 'I Am an Engineer' Temporarily Wins the Right to Call Himself an 'Engineer'
    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...lf-an-engineer
    Last month, Järlström sued the engineering board for violating his First Amendment rights, and Tuesday a federal judge gave Järlström the temporary right to call himself an engineer, pending the results of his case....."Under the First Amendment, you don't need to be a licensed lawyer to write an article critical of a Supreme Court decision, you don't need to be a licensed landscape architect to create a gardening blog, and you don't need to be a licensed engineer to talk about traffic lights," Sam Gedge, a lawyer at the Institute for Justice, said in a statement.

  20. #19

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    It gives me strange comfort to see how insane bureaucrats are in other countries as well.
    "I have a strong temperamental attachment to the meaning of words. In the age I find myself in, that condemns me to a daily dose of pain." - John Derbyshire
    "Give me control of the scientists' money supply and I care not who fakes the results."
    "I can find millions of 'social problems' such as: 'Too many red-headed people have hangnails'." - Murray Rothbard

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by merkelstan View Post
    It gives me strange comfort to see how insane bureaucrats are in other countries as well.
    That's Oregon.

  22. #21

    Default Licensing Board Admits It Can't Silence Red Light Camera Critic

    http://reason.com/blog/2017/12/07/li...y-cant-silence

    The Oregon engineering board fined Mats Järlström for exercising his First Amendment rights. Now, finally, it admits it's not allowed to do that.


    Eric Boehm | Dec. 7, 2017

    More than three years after it targeted Mats Järlström for, essentially, doing math without a license, the Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying has admitted they were wrong to do so.

    As Reason has previously reported, Järlström landed in the board's crosshairs in 2014, after his wife received a traffic ticket in Beaverton, Oregon. A trained electronics engineer, Järlström had used his knowledge to critique the timing of the red light camera that snagged his wife's car.

    Looking for feedback, Järlström sent a letter to the board in 2014 asking for the opportunity to present his research on how too-short yellow lights were making money for the state by putting the public's safety at risk. "I would like to present these fact for your review and comment," he wrote.

    Instead of inviting him to present his ideas, the board threatened him. Citing state laws that make it illegal to practice engineering without a license, the board told Järlström that even calling himself an "electronics engineer" and using the phrase "I am an engineer" in his letter were enough to "create violations." They also slapped him with a $500 fine.

    This week, the state of Oregon conceded that the board had overstepped its authority. "We have admitted to violating Mr. Järlström's rights," Senior Assistant Attorney General Christina L. Beatty-Walters said in court Monday.

    In court documents, the state admitted that the board's attempt to silence Järlström "was not narrowly tailored to any compelling state interests." The board has refunded the $500 fine, and it has been enjoined against targeting Järlström again "for his speech about traffic lights and his description of himself as an engineer except in the context of professional or commercial speech."

    But the fight might continue. Järlström's lawsuit did not seek any monetary damages, but it asked the state court to issue an order telling the state state board to stop violating Oregonians' free speech rights. The decision handed down this week applies only to Järlström.

    That's not enough, says Samuel Gedge, an attorney with the Institute for Justice, the libertarian law firm that represented Järlström in court. "The existence of these laws and the way they've been applied time and time again has violated free speech rights," Gedge told The Oregonian.

    Indeed, as crazy as Järlström's story is, it's not the first time the Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying has been overly aggressive about enforcing its rules about who is and who is not an engineer.

    In 2014, the state board investigated Portland City Commissioner Dan Saltzman for publishing a campaign pamphlet that mentioned Saltzman's background as an "environmental engineer." Saltzman has a bachelor's degree in environmental and civil engineering from Cornell University, a master's degree from MIT's School of Civil Engineering, and is a membership of the American Society of Civil Engineers. But he isn't a licensed engineer in the state of Oregon.

    According to Järlström's lawsuit, the board spent more than a year investigating Saltzman's background before voting to issue an official "warning" against using the word engineer incorrectly.

    In another case, the state board investigated a Republican gubernatorial candidate for using the phrase "I'm an engineer and a problem-solver" in a campaign ad. The candidate in question, Allen Alley, had a degree in engineering from Purdue University and worked as an engineer for Boeing. And of course, he wasn't trying to lie about his lack of an Oregon-issued license; he was making a freaking campaign ad.

    In 2010, the state board issued a $1,000 fine for illegally practicing engineering to a local activist who told the La Pine, Oregon, city council that a proposed new power plant would be too loud for nearby residents.

    The board once investigated Portland Monthly magazine for running a story that described a young immigrant woman as "an engineer behind Portland's newest bridge." The woman in the story did not describe herself as an engineer, but the magazine's editors included that description in the headline.

    In court, Judge Stacie F. Beckerman pressed the board to explain its history of aggressive enforcement actions and to clarify what it considered to be the scope of professional and commercial speech.

    "If the board got it wrong in this case, why should the court defer to the board going forward?" Judge Beckerman asked. An additional ruling that could limit the board's actions in future cases is expected sometime in the next few weeks, The Oregonian reports.

    The board has admitted defeat in Järlström's case, but it is trying to preserve its ability to go after other people who, like Järlström, want to do nothing more than talk about mathematics and engineering in a public forum. The First Amendment should apply to those people as well, and not just to those who have the time and ability to sue the state.

    Järlström's attorneys say the board needs to do more than simply refund Järlström's fine and admit they made one mistake. "Past history," says Gedge, "suggests the board can't be trusted on how the laws should be applied constitutionally."
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  23. #22

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    Nothing less than some firings will solve this problem.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Nothing less than some hangings will solve this problem.
    FTFY
    I do not consent.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Nothing less than some firings will solve this problem.

    Yeah, right...

    Then there's this:

    In 2014, the state board investigated Portland City Commissioner Dan Saltzman for publishing a campaign pamphlet that mentioned Saltzman's background as an "environmental engineer." Saltzman has a bachelor's degree in environmental and civil engineering from Cornell University, a master's degree from MIT's School of Civil Engineering, and is a membership of the American Society of Civil Engineers. But he isn't a licensed engineer in the state of Oregon.
    SO WHAT?

    Since when is a degree required for one to be an engineer? I've known quite a variety of men with no degrees whatsoever who were top-flight engineers, scientists, and so forth. I have also known those with PhDs in engineering who were worthless as engineers.

    This is the sort of crap that leaves so many people saying "$#@! the state".

    Ignorant, petty people on power trips. March them into generator furnaces, that it can be said their lives were not quite complete wastes.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.


    Be a warrior abhorrent of war, willing to wage it in the face of trespass.

  26. #25

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    Does this mean I have to register as an engineer with the state before I can attend Engineers Anonymous meetings in Oregon?
    The only easy day was yesterday.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    Does this mean I have to register as an engineer with the state before I can attend Engineers Anonymous meetings in Oregon?
    Well, of course! Rights come from Govt and only Govt can grant the permission to be recognized as an Engineer! You so silly!

    Oh, wait, Govt converts Rights to Permissions, then denies permissions unless you get permission. Isnt that one of the Planks of Communism? Convert Rights to Permissions, then issue licenses to prohibit competition and stifle innovation and learning?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  28. #27
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius


    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  29. #28

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    There should be a class action civil suit for all the people improperly fined.






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