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Thread: Why the H-1B Visa Racket Should Be Abolished, Not Reformed

  1. #1

    Why the H-1B Visa Racket Should Be Abolished, Not Reformed

    Why the H-1B Visa Racket Should Be Abolished, Not Reformed
    By Ilana Mercer - April 24, 2017

    Billionaire businessman Marc Cuban insists that the H-1B visa racket is a feature of the vaunted American free market. This is nonsense on stilts. It can’t go unchallenged. Another billionaire, our president, has ordered that the H-1B program be reformed. This, too, is disappointing. You’ll see why.

    First, let’s correct Mr. Cuban: America has not a free economy, but a mixed-economy. State and markets are intertwined. Trade, including trade in labor, is not free; it’s regulated to the hilt. If anything, the labyrinth of work visas is an example of a government-business cartel in operation.

    The H-1B permit, in particular, is part of that state-sponsored visa system. The primary H-1B hogs—Infosys (and another eight, sister Indian firms), Microsoft, and Intel—import labor with what are grants of government privilege. Duly, the corporations that hog H-1Bs act like incorrigibly corrupt rent seekers. Not only do they get to replace the American worker, but they get to do so at his expense.

    Here’s how:

    Globally, a series of sordid liaisons ensures that American workers are left high and dry. Through the programs of the International Trade Administration, the Export-Import Bank, the Overseas Private Investment Corporation, the International Monetary Fund, and other oink-operations, the taxpaying American worker is forced to subsidize and underwrite the investment risks of the very corporations that have given him the boot.

    Domestically, the partnership with the State amounts to a subsidy to business at the expense of the taxpayer. See, corporations in our democratic welfare state externalize their employment costs onto the taxpayers.

    So while public property is property funded by taxpayers through expropriated taxes; belongs to taxpayers; is to be managed for their benefit—at least one million additional immigrants a year, including recipients of the H-1B visa, are allowed the free use of taxpayer-supported infrastructure and amenities. Every new arrival avails himself of public works such as roads, hospitals, parks, libraries, schools, and welfare.

    Does this epitomize the classical liberal idea of laissez-faire?

    Moreover, chain migration or family unification means every H-1B visa recruit is a ticket for an entire tribe. The initial entrant—the meal ticket—will pay his way. The honor system not being an especially strong value in the Third World, the rest of the clan will be America’s problem. More often than not, chain-migration entrants become wards of the American taxpayer.

    Spreading like gravy over a tablecloth, this rapid, inorganic population growth is detrimental to all ecosystems: natural, social and political.
    ...
    Never as dumb as the local reporters, the likes of Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, Mark Zuckerberg, and Marc Cuban are certainly as detached.

    Barricaded in their obscenely lavish compounds—from the comfort of their monster mansions—these social engineers don’t experience the “environmental impacts of rapid urban expansion”; the destruction of verdant open spaces and farmland; the decrease in the quality of the water we drink and air we breathe; the increase in traffic and traffic accidents; air pollution; the cellblock-like housing erected to accommodate their imported IT workers and extended families; the delicate bouquet of amped-up waste management and associated seepages.

    For locals, this lamentable state means an inability to afford homes in a market in which property prices have been artificially inflated. Young couples lineup to view tiny apartments. They dream of that picket fence no more. (And our “stupid leaders,” to quote the president before he joined leadership, wonder why birthrates are so low!)
    ...
    Alas, since the high-tech titans can externalize their employment costs on to the community; because corporations are subsidized at every turn by their victims—they need not bring in the best.
    ...
    Theoretically, the H-1B program could be completely abolished and all needed Einsteins imported through the O-1 program. (Why, even future first ladies would stand a chance under the business category of the O-1A visa, as a wealth-generating supermodel could certainly qualify.)

    Now you understand my disappointment. In his April 18 Executive Order, President Trump promised to merely reform a program that needs abolishing. That is if “Hire American” means anything to anybody anymore.
    ...
    More: https://ricochet.com/424854/why-the-...-not-reformed/
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post

    "The H-1B permit, in particular, is part of that state-sponsored visa system. The primary H-1B hogs—Infosys (and another eight, sister Indian firms), Microsoft, and Intel—import labor with what are grants of government privilege.
    I agree. The H1B program should be available to any business that wants hire a qualified foreigner, not just certain ones who are granted government favors.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I agree. The H1B program should be available to any business that wants hire a qualified foreigner, not just certain ones who are granted government favors.
    That's a horrible idea, if you read the rest of the article you would know that. I've been saying for while now that the H1-B program is part of a huge subsidy program and I had people arguing against me. I'm glad this article was posted to back me up.

    Until the subsidies and welfare state ends, there is no benefit to opening up immigration.

    People used to come here for the opportunity to succeed on their own and for the American culture. Now they are coming for the benefits and the money and the subsidies.

    If you pay a woman $500 to go on a date with you and then complain when she doesn't love you, isn't that your fault? We are paying these people to come here then expecting that they are going to love our country.. they don't love our country, they love the free $#@!. Not only that, they are $#@!ing socialists at nearly twice the rate as native born Americans.

    I'm all about open borders, in a free society, but I'm not about to help destroy western civilization by promoting open borders and immigration when we have a huge welfare state.
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  5. #4
    I agree, we should implement a permanent residency program for skilled workers rather than just a temporary visa.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump hasn't even been in 6 months, you can't call him a boondoggle President unless he has overseen a military boondoggle for at least a year or two.


  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron Paul know some weird people...



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  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    That's a horrible idea, if you read the rest of the article you would know that. I've been saying for while now that the H1-B program is part of a huge subsidy program and I had people arguing against me. I'm glad this article was posted to back me up.

    Until the subsidies and welfare state ends, there is no benefit to opening up immigration.

    People used to come here for the opportunity to succeed on their own and for the American culture. Now they are coming for the benefits and the money and the subsidies.

    If you pay a woman $500 to go on a date with you and then complain when she doesn't love you, isn't that your fault? We are paying these people to come here then expecting that they are going to love our country.. they don't love our country, they love the free $#@!. Not only that, they are $#@!ing socialists at nearly twice the rate as native born Americans.

    I'm all about open borders, in a free society, but I'm not about to help destroy western civilization by promoting open borders and immigration when we have a huge welfare state.
    We already beat this dead horse so let's not get into the details again. Would you at least agree that eliminating the H1B program is WAY down on the list of our problems? If we completely eliminate the H1B program, you won't notice squat either way. We've got not just one, but dozens of massive elephants in the room and we're worried about a speck of dust. How about SS, Medicare, Defense spending, tax reform, minimum wage, money printing, socialized healthcare (Obamacare or Trumpcare), etc, etc.

    A combination of xenophobia and hatred of big business has turned this from a teensy tiny molehill to the Himalayas.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    We already beat this dead horse so let's not get into the details again. Would you at least agree that eliminating the H1B program is WAY down on the list of our problems? If we completely eliminate the H1B program, you won't notice squat either way. We've got not just one, but dozens of massive elephants in the room and we're worried about a speck of dust. How about SS, Medicare, Defense spending, tax reform, minimum wage, money printing, socialized healthcare (Obamacare or Trumpcare), etc, etc.

    A combination of xenophobia and hatred of big business has turned this from a teensy tiny molehill to the Himalayas.
    No it's not high on my priority list, but I'm not going to complain about Trump curtailing the program either.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    A combination of xenophobia and hatred of big business has turned this from a teensy tiny molehill to the Himalayas.
    Every individual will have different reasons. While those reasons you identify can be factors for some people, unemployment, overcrowding, traffic and housing prices are also effecting people. Those impact people directly, which tends to make them bigger issues. Just like healthcare has become a big issue, as it is hitting people right in the wallet.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    No it's not high on my priority list, but I'm not going to complain about Trump curtailing the program either.
    But it was high on the priority of most Trump voters, and even some non-Trump voters. It also brought him some swing voters, who might normally vote Democrat.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  11. #9
    The H-1B Visa Racket Should Be Abolished, Not Reformed: totally agree.

  12. #10
    Where is the upside?

    - Foreigner workers preferred over American workers. Some tech companies 70-80% engineers are H-1B. It is an anti-American worker program.
    - Low salaries of H-1B's drive down the salaries of American workers. Less spending money in the pockets of Americans = less money put back into the economy.
    - Displacement of American workers for foreign workers places more American workers on unemployment and welfare benefits.
    - The H-1B's life is subject to a sponsor and lives in the country at the whim of the employer. Effectively a slave that must comply to any demand out of fear of being sent back home.
    - Institutionalized age discrimination. Most H-1Bs are under 30, and since younger workers are cheaper than older ones in both wages and health care costs, employers use the H-1B program to avoid hiring older (35+) Americans.

  13. #11
    I see no need for it or upside for taxpayers .
    Do something Danke

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    That's a horrible idea, if you read the rest of the article you would know that. I've been saying for while now that the H1-B program is part of a huge subsidy program and I had people arguing against me. I'm glad this article was posted to back me up.

    Until the subsidies and welfare state ends, there is no benefit to opening up immigration.

    People used to come here for the opportunity to succeed on their own and for the American culture. Now they are coming for the benefits and the money and the subsidies.

    If you pay a woman $500 to go on a date with you and then complain when she doesn't love you, isn't that your fault? We are paying these people to come here then expecting that they are going to love our country.. they don't love our country, they love the free $#@!. Not only that, they are $#@!ing socialists at nearly twice the rate as native born Americans.

    I'm all about open borders, in a free society, but I'm not about to help destroy western civilization by promoting open borders and immigration when we have a huge welfare state.
    Sorry but the stupidity of this article hurts my neurons. This part in particular.

    So while public property is property funded by taxpayers through expropriated taxes; belongs to taxpayers; is to be managed for their benefit—at least one million additional immigrants a year, including recipients of the H-1B visa, are allowed the free use of taxpayer-supported infrastructure and amenities. Every new arrival avails himself of public works such as roads, hospitals, parks, libraries, schools, and welfare.

    Ummm....H1B visa holders pay taxes. Many of them pay more taxes than the average native born American. And most of them send their kids to private schools because, frankly, American public schools suck. I can see complaining about immigrants using welfare or the public school system. But complaining about immigrants using "muh roads?" Seriously?

    Okay. Substitute "tourist" for "H1B visa holders." It would be wrong to give tourists food stamps. But should you keep tourists off the roads? If they are driving, they buy gas and pay gas taxes. If they are paying someone else to drive, like an Uber driver, the person they hired is buying gas and paying gas taxes. Maybe you can make the argument that tourists are using "welfare" when they use public transportation so....ban tourism?

    Really, anti immigrant conservatives are as bad as statist liberals. Once in a family law class the teacher brought up "octomom" (the lady that had 8 kids at once.) Most of the class was like "Oh....that's so terrible! That should be banned!" Mind you everyone was all for any type of "alternative" family. Two guys or two gals? Perfect. Family having 8 kids? Terrible! Their reasoning "They are using up our precious resources." I was like "But what if they aren't on welfare?" One particularly angry witch droned "I used to work in a public school and I saw how all these kids come in and they use this and that." so I said "And if the kids are home schooled?" She was like "They use our electricity!" So I countered "And if they are off grid?" Then she shut up.

    I'm seeing the same thing with the anti immigrant crowd. Sure, I don't want people coming here and getting on welfare. But getting on our roads? Are you freaking kidding me?

    Oh, AND THE ARTICLE FLAT OUT LIED BY STATING THAT H1B VISA PARTICIPANTS GET WELFARE!

    Stupid article. Worst I have ever read on the subject.
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  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Sorry but the stupidity of this article hurts my neurons. This part in particular.

    So while public property is property funded by taxpayers through expropriated taxes; belongs to taxpayers; is to be managed for their benefit—at least one million additional immigrants a year, including recipients of the H-1B visa, are allowed the free use of taxpayer-supported infrastructure and amenities. Every new arrival avails himself of public works such as roads, hospitals, parks, libraries, schools, and welfare.

    Ummm....H1B visa holders pay taxes. Many of them pay more taxes than the average native born American. And most of them send their kids to private schools because, frankly, American public schools suck. I can see complaining about immigrants using welfare or the public school system. But complaining about immigrants using "muh roads?" Seriously?

    Okay. Substitute "tourist" for "H1B visa holders." It would be wrong to give tourists food stamps. But should you keep tourists off the roads? If they are driving, they buy gas and pay gas taxes. If they are paying someone else to drive, like an Uber driver, the person they hired is buying gas and paying gas taxes. Maybe you can make the argument that tourists are using "welfare" when they use public transportation so....ban tourism?

    Really, anti immigrant conservatives are as bad as statist liberals. Once in a family law class the teacher brought up "octomom" (the lady that had 8 kids at once.) Most of the class was like "Oh....that's so terrible! That should be banned!" Mind you everyone was all for any type of "alternative" family. Two guys or two gals? Perfect. Family having 8 kids? Terrible! Their reasoning "They are using up our precious resources." I was like "But what if they aren't on welfare?" One particularly angry witch droned "I used to work in a public school and I saw how all these kids come in and they use this and that." so I said "And if the kids are home schooled?" She was like "They use our electricity!" So I countered "And if they are off grid?" Then she shut up.

    I'm seeing the same thing with the anti immigrant crowd. Sure, I don't want people coming here and getting on welfare. But getting on our roads? Are you freaking kidding me?

    Oh, AND THE ARTICLE FLAT OUT LIED BY STATING THAT H1B VISA PARTICIPANTS GET WELFARE!

    Stupid article. Worst I have ever read on the subject.
    AMEN.
    There is no spoon.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Where is the upside?

    - Foreigner workers preferred over American workers. Some tech companies 70-80% engineers are H-1B. It is an anti-American worker program.
    - Low salaries of H-1B's drive down the salaries of American workers. Less spending money in the pockets of Americans = less money put back into the economy.
    - Displacement of American workers for foreign workers places more American workers on unemployment and welfare benefits.
    - The H-1B's life is subject to a sponsor and lives in the country at the whim of the employer. Effectively a slave that must comply to any demand out of fear of being sent back home.
    - Institutionalized age discrimination. Most H-1Bs are under 30, and since younger workers are cheaper than older ones in both wages and health care costs, employers use the H-1B program to avoid hiring older (35+) Americans.
    You're using classic, flawed Keynesian logic. You're only looking at one side of the equation, the pay of the US worker. If that were true we could simply raise the minimum wage to $1000 an hour and we'd all be rich. The other sides of the equation are the business owners and the consumers. Cheaper, more productive workers allow producers to charge less for their products, which is good for consumers. It also allows businesses to compete globally.

    You and many others here need to read Henry Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson. It's basically the broken window fallacy.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post

    Oh, AND THE ARTICLE FLAT OUT LIED BY STATING THAT H1B VISA PARTICIPANTS GET WELFARE!
    Yeah, that part was especially stupid. By definition H1Bs aren't on welfare. Duh.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I see no need for it or upside for taxpayers .
    Which tax payers? business people, shareholders, customers who get more affordable goods and services are tax payers too and I think they see an upside or else they won't be asking for it.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    You're using classic, flawed Keynesian logic. You're only looking at one side of the equation, the pay of the US worker. If that were true we could simply raise the minimum wage to $1000 an hour and we'd all be rich. The other sides of the equation are the business owners and the consumers. Cheaper, more productive workers allow producers to charge less for their products, which is good for consumers. It also allows businesses to compete globally.

    You and many others here need to read Henry Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson. It's basically the broken window fallacy.
    I only believe in Libertarian values within what is the geographic borders of the US. Unless you are an internationalist Oligarch, outside of that, it and globalism is retarded for any chance at individual liberty for the majority of people in this geographic region.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Which tax payers? business people, shareholders, customers who get more affordable goods and services are tax payers too and I think they see an upside or else they won't be asking for it.
    Yeah, but they're rich people, therefore sub human and have no rights.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Yeah, but they're rich people, therefore sub human and have no rights.
    Another exaggeration about the opposition. The issue is really about the immorality of the elites which clearly is being ignored and their propaganda propagated here. Prior to the 80s they would be called out for their immorality and some corporations would actually serve the people here and their community equally with the quest for profits. But now it is solely about majority shareholder value over everything no matter the consequences and without any allegiance to the people of this country. God forbid you call out their immorality since people have now been brainwashed to believe that some how makes you against free markets, some how promoting regulations or a Communist.

    The globalists and those supporting these policies are the enemy of the majority of Americans more than any foreign power.
    Last edited by kahless; 04-26-2017 at 03:14 PM.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Another exaggeration about the opposition. The issue is really about the immorality of the elites which clearly is being ignored and their propaganda propagated here. Prior to the 80s they would be called out for their immorality and some corporations would actually serve the people here and their community equally with the quest for profits. But now it is solely about majority shareholder value over everything no matter the consequences and without any allegiance to the people of this country. God forbid you call out their immorality since people have now been brainwashed to believe that some how makes you against free markets, some how promoting regulations or a Communist.

    The globalists and those supporting these policies are the enemy of the majority of Americans more than any foreign power.
    I don't mind you "calling out" corporations for their "immorality". What I hate is when you support government power to infringe on my natural rights. In this case the right of a business to hire who it wants, which affects me indirectly because now I have to pay more for stuff.

  24. #21
    Does anyone really think jobs would go unfilled or undone without this program ? I am not seeing that .I ran many different large specialized facilities without ever using any and I have only been out of that for a year.
    Do something Danke

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I don't mind you "calling out" corporations for their "immorality". What I hate is when you support government power to infringe on my natural rights. In this case the right of a business to hire who it wants, which affects me indirectly because now I have to pay more for stuff.
    What a irony coming from people who supported Trump in the election. A man with next to zero morals who would do just about anything to attain the almighty dollar. He outsourced production for his clothing line, palled around with crooked Hillary and rapey Bill, used eminent domain to boot old ladies out of their homes, owned and profited from casinos, used bankruptcies to evade paying his debts, worked with the mob etc etc.

    People who supported Trump on this site shouldn't be lecturing anyone about the morality of elites. You lack the minimum amount of credibility need to have that discussion.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I don't mind you "calling out" corporations for their "immorality". What I hate is when you support government power to infringe on my natural rights. In this case the right of a business to hire who it wants, which affects me indirectly because now I have to pay more for stuff.
    There is no logic to the argument we cannot find good people out out the 325 million people that live in the US. By your reasoning we should just open up the immigration flood gates to allow a billion people to come here to be slave laborers over Americans since Madison320 is effectively anti-American citizen.

    Yep, lets screw over all the people that live here for that purpose for you and the elites regardless of the wide ranging ramifications. No your policy will not destabilize the economy or create civil unrest.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    What a irony coming from people who supported Trump in the election. A man with next to zero morals who would do just about anything to attain the almighty dollar. He outsourced production for his clothing line, palled around with crooked Hillary and rapey Bill, used eminent domain to boot old ladies out of their homes, owned and profited from casinos, used bankruptcies to evade paying his debts, worked with the mob etc etc.

    People who supported Trump on this site shouldn't be lecturing anyone about the morality of elites. You lack the minimum amount of credibility need to have that discussion.
    The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It was preferable to over look Trump's immorality on some issues given those that oppose him were of greater immorality including those that promoted policies that favored foreigners over American citizens.

    Since there were no other competing choices I would painfully make that decision again. Getting something rather than nothing is still better than the alternative which is the opposite of everything I prefer.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Which tax payers? business people, shareholders, customers who get more affordable goods and services are tax payers too and I think they see an upside or else they won't be asking for it.
    Best I can tell , people in the US are not buying many products made in the US . I am in one of the last few remaining areas heavily involved in Mnfg and there is only one Co here employing these people .
    Do something Danke

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    So while public property is property funded by taxpayers through expropriated taxes; belongs to taxpayers; is to be managed for their benefit—at least one million additional immigrants a year, including recipients of the H-1B visa, are allowed the free use of taxpayer-supported infrastructure and amenities. Every new arrival avails himself of public works such as roads, hospitals, parks, libraries, schools, and welfare.

    Does this epitomize the classical liberal idea of laissez-faire?
    So the solution to having a mixed economy is to lean even harder into socialism and big government? Sorry, that is stupid. Immigration regulation by the government is nothing but socialism because it is the limiting of the free market through government regulations on the free movement of human capital. Supporting government regulation of immigration isn't just unconstitutional but it is socialism and if you support it then you are a socialist.

    The rest of the article is equally idiotic. Workers willing to work for less is a feature of the free market that keeps production low and point of sale costs even lower. Calling to "hire/buy American" and prevent economic competition among laborers is the kind of protectionist bullcrap that comes spewing out of Bernie Sander's mouth than any supporter of the free market. Companies aren't using this as a system to take advantage of anyone, if anything they're using the only outlet they have to escape burdensome government regulation. You have a problem with the government? Then get rid of the government and stop trying to force your dieals and beliefs about how teh world should work on everyone else through it, otherwise you're just another Progressive.
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  31. #27
    Response sin bold.

    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    There is no logic to the argument we cannot find good people out out the 325 million people that live in the US. By your reasoning we should just open up the immigration flood gates to allow a billion people to come here to be slave laborers over Americans since Madison320 is effectively anti-American citizen.

    What kind of idiocy are you even talking about?

    Yep, lets screw over all the people that live here for that purpose for you and the elites regardless of the wide ranging ramifications. No your policy will not destabilize the economy or create civil unrest.
    What a great example of doublethink. The only elites I see are the ones that favor giving regulatory power to control society over to a few politically connected powers and taking that power out of the hands of private people and businesses. In other words, people like you serve the needs of the elites quite well. Removing form the government the power to control who goes where when, why, and how would be shrinking the power of the State and taking power out of the hands of the elites.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Best I can tell , people in the US are not buying many products made in the US . I am in one of the last few remaining areas heavily involved in Mnfg and there is only one Co here employing these people .
    I sympathize with anyone in a situation you described where people's livelihood is dependent on one company that could go overseas(or something like that). But how is this any kind of reply to the question I asked you?
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Sorry but the stupidity of this article hurts my neurons. This part in particular.

    So while public property is property funded by taxpayers through expropriated taxes; belongs to taxpayers; is to be managed for their benefit—at least one million additional immigrants a year, including recipients of the H-1B visa, are allowed the free use of taxpayer-supported infrastructure and amenities. Every new arrival avails himself of public works such as roads, hospitals, parks, libraries, schools, and welfare.

    Ummm....H1B visa holders pay taxes. Many of them pay more taxes than the average native born American. And most of them send their kids to private schools because, frankly, American public schools suck. I can see complaining about immigrants using welfare or the public school system. But complaining about immigrants using "muh roads?" Seriously?

    Okay. Substitute "tourist" for "H1B visa holders." It would be wrong to give tourists food stamps. But should you keep tourists off the roads? If they are driving, they buy gas and pay gas taxes. If they are paying someone else to drive, like an Uber driver, the person they hired is buying gas and paying gas taxes. Maybe you can make the argument that tourists are using "welfare" when they use public transportation so....ban tourism?

    Really, anti immigrant conservatives are as bad as statist liberals. Once in a family law class the teacher brought up "octomom" (the lady that had 8 kids at once.) Most of the class was like "Oh....that's so terrible! That should be banned!" Mind you everyone was all for any type of "alternative" family. Two guys or two gals? Perfect. Family having 8 kids? Terrible! Their reasoning "They are using up our precious resources." I was like "But what if they aren't on welfare?" One particularly angry witch droned "I used to work in a public school and I saw how all these kids come in and they use this and that." so I said "And if the kids are home schooled?" She was like "They use our electricity!" So I countered "And if they are off grid?" Then she shut up.

    I'm seeing the same thing with the anti immigrant crowd. Sure, I don't want people coming here and getting on welfare. But getting on our roads? Are you freaking kidding me?

    Oh, AND THE ARTICLE FLAT OUT LIED BY STATING THAT H1B VISA PARTICIPANTS GET WELFARE!

    Stupid article. Worst I have ever read on the subject.
    In fact there was a study fairly recently that said immigrants pay as much as $2 BILLION dollars a year in taxes. And since people on visas are ehre legally they pay income taxes as well. This article is absolutely moronic.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Best I can tell , people in the US are not buying many products made in the US . I am in one of the last few remaining areas heavily involved in Mnfg and there is only one Co here employing these people .
    Blame the State. Minimum wage laws and business regulations have made it cheaper to ship jobs and production overseas. That isn't an immigrants fault. Your beef is with the government.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

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