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Thread: Neil Gorsuch's first vote on Supreme Court is deciding vote to allow AR execution

  1. #1

    Default Neil Gorsuch's first vote on Supreme Court is deciding vote to allow AR execution

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...edell_lee.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Slate
    On Thursday night, Arkansas executed Ledell Lee—the state’s first execution in 12 years. Lee is one of eight men whom Arkansas originally planned to kill over 11 days before one drug in the three-drug lethal injection cocktail expires. Four of these men have received stays of execution, but Lee’s final plea to the U.S. Supreme Court was rejected by a 5–4 vote. Justice Neil Gorsuch cast the deciding vote allowing Lee to die. It was his first vote cast as a justice of the court.



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  3. #2

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    I guess he's not Pro life?

  4. #3

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    I'm against the death penalty. Especially administered by the state. But this dude beat a woman to death with a tire iron. Sheesh. Maybe if the law was altered so that the victims next of kin was given the option to carry out the execution or grant clemency for life without parole...but even that's flawed.
    Just lock them up for life and let God sort out what happens in the afterlife.

    Did Gorsuch gain D.C. Street cred for condemning this guy to death like Trump got for bombing Syria?

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghengis86 View Post
    I'm against the death penalty. Especially administered by the state. But this dude beat a woman to death with a tire iron. Sheesh. Maybe if the law was altered so that the victims next of kin was given the option to carry out the execution or grant clemency for life without parole...but even that's flawed.
    Just lock them up for life and let God sort out what happens in the afterlife.

    Did Gorsuch gain D.C. Street cred for condemning this guy to death like Trump got for bombing Syria?
    If you don't like this country you can get the hell out.
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  6. #5
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    So why isn't it the vote of Clarence Thomas that is the deciding vote?
    Citizen of Arizona
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    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  7. #6

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    We knew he was not a liberal.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    If you don't like this country you can get the hell out.
    Lol, that was a joke, right? I can't tell anymore; all the surreality as of late has busted my sarc/satire meter.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    So why isn't it the vote of Clarence Thomas that is the deciding vote?
    Reported!


  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    So why isn't it the vote of Clarence Thomas that is the deciding vote?
    I surmise because a month ago, with Thomas already on the Court, it would have been a 4-4 tie.

    Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
    I guess he's not Pro life?
    For unborn babies, yes; convicted murderers, not so much.

    Or maybe Gorsuch is personally against the death penalty, but still believes it's constitutional and that Arkansas is within the law to execute this guy. That's possible too, you know. Surely not every judge lets their personal beliefs cloud their rulings.
    Last edited by RonPaulFanInGA; 04-21-2017 at 04:17 PM.

  11. #10

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    Is it not the Constitutional/Libertarian stance to let the states decide these matters ?
    At least that's what I have heard Ron Paul say. If that is the law on the books of a State, a supreme court judge would respect that.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProBlue33 View Post
    Is it not the Constitutional/Libertarian stance to let the states decide these matters ?
    At least that's what I have heard Ron Paul say. If that is the law on the books of a State, a supreme court judge would respect that.
    Many of the anti-Trump folks only use Ron Paul's words when it suits their interests.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Many of the anti-Trump folks only use Ron Paul's words when it suits their interests.
    Whoa! That's rich coming from you!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Whoa! That's rich coming from you!
    Why?

    I want the troops to just come home as much as you do, what we fight about is my preference for a smaller limited foreign policy over a neocon boondoggle.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProBlue33 View Post
    Is it not the Constitutional/Libertarian stance to let the states decide these matters ?
    At least that's what I have heard Ron Paul say. If that is the law on the books of a State, a supreme court judge would respect that.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Many of the anti-Trump folks only use Ron Paul's words when it suits their interests.
    Ron Paul is on record as being against the death penalty both at the federal level and the state level.

    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...nment-program/

    From a strictly libertarian point of view. transferring the right of the state to do something immoral from the federal level to the state level doesn't matter. Ron Paul is a states rights person. But on the issue of abortion he has voted, for example, in favor of federal restrictions on late term abortions.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Why?

    I want the troops to just come home as much as you do, what we fight about is my preference for a smaller limited foreign policy over a neocon boondoggle.
    You don't get Trumps deal. If you give Trump an inch he will take a mile. You are asking me to bend over because Trump says he is just going to use the Tip and the establishment wouldn of gone balls deep. You are pissing on me and telling me its rain.

  17. #16

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    Good.

    I'm pro-death of zygotes and puppies (and even kittens without homes), and criminals.

    Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Ron Paul is on record as being against the death penalty both at the federal level and the state level.

    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...nment-program/

    From a strictly libertarian point of view. transferring the right of the state to do something immoral from the federal level to the state level doesn't matter. Ron Paul is a states rights person. But on the issue of abortion he has voted, for example, in favor of federal restrictions on late term abortions.

    I do not support the federal death penalty, but constitutionally I cannot, as a federal official, interfere with the individual states that impose it.
    http://2012.presidential-candidates....Punishment.php


    So Ron Paul would have voted like Gorsuch.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  19. #18

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    very disappointed. not necessarily that the Supremes should/shouldn't decide, more that these f#cks in Arkansas (or anywhere) are still killing folks.
    Seattle Sounders 2016 MLS Cup Champions - and the [un]official football club of RPF

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by surf View Post
    very disappointed. not necessarily that the Supremes should/shouldn't decide, more that these f#cks in Arkansas (or anywhere) are still killing folks.
    Some people are overwhelmingly guilty where there is no possible doubt as to their guilt. That actually might not apply to this case and I might have voted with the liberal judges. But in some cases like with Jeffrey Dahmer or the Unabomber or OJ Simpson where there is no doubt as to their guilt, I don't see a reason why they should be breathing. I think executing someone who takes the life of another person where there is a 0% chance of their innocence is a very fair punishment. You lose rights when you violate the rights of others.

  21. #20

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    I'm against the Death Penalty but this should legally be decided at the state level. I can't even imagine what I would do in this scenario, use my tie breaking vote to kill a man or violate the law to illegally expand the power of the federal government?

  22. #21

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    The death penalty is a fine thing and should be heavily streamlined. Shouldn't take more than a year to execute someone.
    NeoReactionary. Anarcho-Feudalist.

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  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Why?

    I want the troops to just come home as much as you do, what we fight about is my preference for a smaller limited foreign policy over a neocon boondoggle.
    You know Ron Paul is against the wall right?

    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...s-border-wall/
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You know Ron Paul is against the wall right?

    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...s-border-wall/

    Ron Paul is for protecting our borders, but against the wall which helps protect the border. Neither is a big priority for me, but I can understand the importance of limiting immigration when you have a welfare state. That is one area I have shifted on in the last year or so.

    I'm against the wall ultimately, but there are much bigger higher priority issues involved here that actually affect me. Like the Supreme Court Justice, we gotta Constitutional Conservative, that is a much bigger deal to me. If we started having 4-5 decisions on all the Constitutional issues that came through the Supreme Court, that would be a huge loss for liberty. Most people will never see the wall that is being built, and Mexico is going to pay for it so whatever.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ron Paul is for protecting our borders, but against the wall which helps protect the border. Neither is a big priority for me, but I can understand the importance of limiting immigration when you have a welfare state. That is one area I have shifted on in the last year or so.

    I'm against the wall ultimately, but there are much bigger higher priority issues involved here that actually affect me. Like the Supreme Court Justice, we gotta Constitutional Conservative, that is a much bigger deal to me. If we started having 4-5 decisions on all the Constitutional issues that came through the Supreme Court, that would be a huge loss for liberty. Most people will never see the wall that is being built, and Mexico is going to pay for it so whatever.
    The "Mexico is going to pay for it" argument is wishful thinking that you have been sold by the ultimate salesman Donald Trump. Further Ron Paul's concern about the wall isn't the cost. It's that it is an expansion of the immigration police state. Ron Paul also warned that the wall could be used to imprison Americans in the case of a coming economic collapse which he as been warning about for years. And in order to build the wall, the private property rights of landowners along the border are already being violated. Lastly, the H1B Visa crackdown shows that the anti immigration sentiment has really nothing to do with welfare. If it did then there wouldn't be concern about immigrants who, by definition, cannot be on welfare.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    If you don't like this country you can get the hell out.
    +rep
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    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Some people are overwhelmingly guilty where there is no possible doubt as to their guilt. That actually might not apply to this case and I might have voted with the liberal judges. But in some cases like with Jeffrey Dahmer or the Unabomber or OJ Simpson where there is no doubt as to their guilt, I don't see a reason why they should be breathing. I think executing someone who takes the life of another person where there is a 0% chance of their innocence is a very fair punishment.
    Questions of criminal guilt are insescapably emprical in nature, and are therefore always subject to the possibility of doubt.

    "Overwhelmingness" (whatever that is supposed to mean) has got nothing to do with it. Among those who have been found "guilty," how do you propose to effectively distinguish between those who are "overwhelmingly" guilty and those are "merely" guilty? (Yet another trial process? A coin flip? Magical divination? What, then?) And having done so (by whatever means). what jurisprudential principles are then to be used to determine the punishments that are proper for those who have been found "overwhelmingly" guilty of some crime as distinct from the punishments (for exactly the same crime, mind you) that are proper for those who have been found "merely" guilty?

    There are verdicts of "guilty" or "not guilty" - and those verdicts may be correct or incorrect. That is all.

    And the fact that there may be correct "guilty" verdicts (Dahmer, etc.) does not rectify or abnegate incorrect "guilty" verdicts, of which there will always and inevitably be some number. Under any system of capital punishment, no matter how stringent it may be, there will always be errors. Thus, under any such system, there will always be innocents killed in the name of punishing those who kill innocents. It is difficult to conceive a more profound and indefensible hypocrisy than this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    You lose rights when you violate the rights of others.
    No you don't.

    Anything you might lose when you violate the rights of others cannot ipso facto properly have been said to be a right to begin with.

  28. #27

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    I am also against the death penalty but agree with the judge its a state issue.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Lastly, the H1B Visa crackdown shows that the anti immigration sentiment has really nothing to do with welfare. If it did then there wouldn't be concern about immigrants who, by definition, cannot be on welfare.
    Addressed here:

    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Addressed here:
    Come on Dannno!

    There's more than just me who won't listen to Molyneux drone on........How 'bout typing out the thoughts he inspired you to have?

  31. #30

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    The death penalty is on par with abortion, both end life, big difference is that 1 is 100% innocent. Ron Paul is against both, but he has said it's up to the citizens of the states they live in to change the laws of their states. But from everything I have heard from Ron he would like the supreme court to overturn Roe vs Wade, freedom to choose until you choose to harm another is the Libertarian way, and if that needs to be federally mandated, then so be it.
    Because you know states like California will never do it on their own. Libertarian federalists have to protect innocents in liberal bastions of stupidity.

    People can be framed and slandered, even video can be altered these days, strong technology exists to frame people.
    I used to be for the death penalty, now I am not so sure anymore. If somebody 100% admits their guilt to 1st degree murder in court then their death is on their own word and that is biblical, that would be only the case where I would support it at this point. I know this would be rare, but it's the only way you could be 100% sure.
    Remember the movie "The Green Mile", it shows that ideology cutting both ways in that movie.
    Last edited by ProBlue33; 04-23-2017 at 09:31 AM.

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