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Thread: IL-Man gets dragged off and bloodied for refusing to give up seat on United flight

  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    And if they had to hire a gulfstream every time they had to remove someone from their seat, then they probably wouldn't be in business today. Anyone who bought the ticket should have known this was a possibility. But then again I don't think they considered running to an individual who cannot read the contract they signed when buying the ticket.

    If I was the airline, I would consider suing the shyte out of the passenger for breach of contract. Make an example of him and other would shy away from misbehaving while flying.
    ^^^
    Don't let others get you down. Not naysayers, not pretenders, not appeasers, not opportunists; none of em.

    What others do pales beside what YOU do.

    Press on! - The r3VOLution continues...

    "Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."

    ~ C.Coolidge



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  3. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Of course for that 10K they could have chartered a flight on a small plane to get the excess passengers to their destination.
    so what you are saying is that they had lots of other options other than: beat up and eject a customer or lose millions and go out of business?

  4. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    You don't own the seats on the plane when you buy a plane ticket.

    Suppose you have your own car service to compete with Uber. You offer rides to people that live nearby at a discount with an agreement that if there's an emergency, and you need your car, you'll refund the ticket. At the time you need to give someone a ride that they reserved, your wife slips in the shower and is unconscious. You call your neighbor and tell him his ride is cancelled, there's an emergency. You carry her to the car to take her to the hospital only to find your neighbor sitting in your car waiting to be taken for his reserved ride. You tell him he needs to get out. He refuses. You try to pull him out of the car but he grabs onto the seat so you whack him over the head, and drag him out of the car. Was your action justified?
    That's not the contract nor what occurred here.

    So it's wildly hypothetical and not relevant.

  5. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    You assume that just because they are employees they weren't booked for the flight. Even employees get booked for flights and fly with tickets albeit discounted ones. The planes were overbooked according to them and he should have followed the order when he was instructed to get off the plane.
    Yup, that's what we all should do, follow orders.

    I'm not about to argue with you on this.

    If you think it's justified to snatch a man off an airplane seat that he had bought and paid for, call cops who drag him off and give him a beating, be my guest.



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  7. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    That's not the contract nor what occurred here.

    So it's wildly hypothetical and not relevant.
    I'm as big of a property rights advocate as anybody and I agree that the airline should be able to remove anybody from their flights or refuse service for whatever reason -- even just to shuttle around some employees. That does not mean that it is not horrible customer service to do so and gives people a valid reason to choose other airlines.

  8. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Hell, I don't even take ferries anymore since the last time when a cop went up and down the rows of cars with a dog sniffing everyone. Screw it, I'll drive.
    That'll only be an option for a while longer.

  9. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    so what you are saying is that they had lots of other options other than: beat up and eject a customer or lose millions and go out of business?
    But they thought they could get away with overbooking to save a few bucks. Seems to have bitten them in the ass this time.

    I remember when I would ride what was called "Student Standby" at a reduced price and usually got to take the next flight out.

    Seems like they could do that for anybody when they have an empty seat.

  10. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I'm as big of a property rights advocate as anybody and I agree that the airline should be able to remove anybody from their flights or refuse service for whatever reason -- even just to shuttle around some employees. That does not mean that it is not horrible customer service to do so and gives people a valid reason to choose other airlines.
    Bingo.

    As I've said already in this thread, the whole flying experience is a miserable affront to (anybody with a lick of sense anyway) to your dignity and your liberty.

  11. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    This story is really bringing them out. (evidence: Danke)

    A gay Asian actor, reprising the role of another gay Asian actor, blames Trump for the beating of a gay Asian airline passenger.

    Makes perfect sense.

    https://www.prisonplanet.com/star-tr...r-removal.html
    It should be made clear that United had NOTHING to do with the beating. That is wholly on the police.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  12. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    It should be made clear that United had NOTHING to do with the beating. That is wholly on the police.
    So you would give that same benefit to anybody else that ever called the cops on somebody?

  13. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Yup, that's what we all should do, follow orders.

    I'm not about to argue with you on this.

    If you think it's justified to snatch a man off an airplane seat that he had bought and paid for, call cops who drag him off and give him a beating, be my guest.
    I don't know how many times this has to be said but there are conditions on the ticket and he should have know this if he took the time to read the contract he signed before you are allowed to pay for a ticket. He should have followed the rules, the sort of rules that make it possible for the airline to offer cheap tickets. In today's world, people want to get a Hilton penthouse suite for the price of a Motel 6 room. Sadly, that is not how life works, you get what you pay for.

    My biggest fear now is the fear of the govt coming in and telling airlines that they cannot do what United did.

  14. #192
    ISTM The police are at fault for the beating, the airline is at fault for enabling it.
    Don't let others get you down. Not naysayers, not pretenders, not appeasers, not opportunists; none of em.

    What others do pales beside what YOU do.

    Press on! - The r3VOLution continues...

    "Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."

    ~ C.Coolidge



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  16. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I don't know how many times this has to be said but there are conditions on the ticket and he should have know this if he took the time to read the contract he signed before you are allowed to pay for a ticket. He should have followed the rules, the sort of rules that make it possible for the airline to offer cheap tickets. In today's world, people want to get a Hilton penthouse suite for the price of a Motel 6 room. Sadly, that is not how life works, you get what you pay for.

    My biggest fear now is the fear of the govt coming in and telling airlines that they cannot do what United did.
    And it's been stated over and over again, that this was not a true over booking incident, where more paying customers bought more seats than what was available on a particular flight.

    This was putting people off to support the airline's internal logistics.

    But yeah, you're right, it's the airline's seat and they can do what they want with it.

    They can run every motherfucker off, call the cops and mace the whole lot if they want.

    And I can take my business elsewhere.

  17. #194
    Rules vs Reality.

    The rules may have given United the right, but reality is showing exercising it in this case to be wrong. I don't know how many times it has to be said that the airline could have kept raising the offer til someone bit. Or found other arrangements for the crew. I don't think the stockholders are as happy about being right in lawyers eyes as much as they are horrified to be wrong in the public's eyes...
    Don't let others get you down. Not naysayers, not pretenders, not appeasers, not opportunists; none of em.

    What others do pales beside what YOU do.

    Press on! - The r3VOLution continues...

    "Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."

    ~ C.Coolidge

  18. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by ronpaulhawaii View Post
    ISTM The police are at fault for the beating, the airline is at fault for enabling it.
    Agreed, the airline enabled this.

    This is just one aspect of modern flying in AmeriKa.

    Just one smart remark, just one argument, just the slightest bit of back talk anywhere in an airport to anybody in "authority" and you're liable to find yourself dragged off by cops.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 04-11-2017 at 10:48 PM.

  19. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by ronpaulhawaii View Post
    Rules vs Reality.

    The rules may have given United the right, but reality is showing exercising it in this case to be wrong. I don't know how many times it has to be said that the airline could have kept raising the offer til someone bit. Or found other arrangements for the crew. I don't think the stockholders are as happy about being right in lawyers eyes as much as they are horrified to be wrong in the public's eyes...
    Yeah well, the rules, and compliance with same, are all that matters in a police state.

    For United, it's called a Pyrrhic victory.

  20. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    It should be made clear that United had NOTHING to do with the beating. That is wholly on the police.
    Bull$#@!.

    They may not have laid a single hand on him, but they're just as culpable as the asshenhole who calls the cops on their neighbors for having a loud party and the cops show up and kill their dog.

    Or a million other scenarios where people in disagreement could have possibly worked something out instead of calling the "authorities", but do not, and cops show up and do what they are designed to do, $#@! people up and/or throw them in jail.

    Or kill them.

  21. #198
    It's in the fine print of the contract. It's your own fault that you didn't read it...

    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  22. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    It's in the fine print of the contract. It's your own fault that you didn't read it...
    Just another aspect of the police state.

    Millions of laws that no one can understand and comply with.

    Millions of contract points that no one can understand and comply with.

  23. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Agreed, the airline enabled this.

    This is just one aspect of modern flying in AmeriKa

    Just one smart remark, just one argument, just the slightest bit of back talk anywhere in an airport to anybody in "authority" and you're liable to find yourself dragged off by cops.
    Last time I flew with the kid, we were in the restroom stall doing his business in , when he decided it was a good time to talk to me about a minecraft story from a youtube show. The central character to the story was named "bombie" and happened to be the name of the stuffed animal in his backpack. So I got the kid (who talks loud) saying "bombie this", "bombie that", while In the stall at a freaking airport. about gave me a heart attack. Later, we had a good talk about what words you can't say at an airport....
    Last edited by specsaregood; 04-11-2017 at 11:19 PM.



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  25. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Just another aspect of the police state.

    Millions of laws that no one can understand and comply with.

    Millions of contract points that no one can understand and comply with.
    Was reading the fine print on a rather long (100s of pages) legal document the other day, and found some boilerplate that would have been extremely in the favor of the business that wanted me as a customer. Upon questioning them, they replied, "oh, that doesn't apply, and we would never do that. It's just some default stuff." Now I tend to believe that for the most part the individuals I was dealing with are being honest, but if anything were to go wrong, you can bet that their corporate lawyers would be all about that fine print. They assure me that the "real" terms will be different, but I have yet to see it in writing.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  26. #202
    Why Should Police Help United Airlines Cheat Its Customers?

    http://reason.com/blog/2017/04/10/wh...ted-airlines-c

    United's action in having a man attacked and dragged off a flight yesterday was heinous. So is the fact that police officers cooperated.
    The world is rightly abuzz over an awful incident yesterday in which a man was beaten and dragged off a plane by police at Chicago's O'Hare airport for the crime of wanting to use the seat he's paid for on a United Airline flight getting ready to leave for Louisville.

    The man claimed to be a doctor who had patients to see the next morning, explaining why he neither took an initial offer made to everyone on the plane to accept $400 and a hotel room for the night in exchange for voluntarily giving up his seat nor wanted to obey a straight-up order to leave, in an attempt on United's part to clear four seats for its own employees on the full flight.

    No one considered even the $800 that was offered after everyone had boarded enough for the inconvenience, so United picked four seats and just ordered those in them to vacate. But the one man in question was not interested in obeying. (Buzzfeed reports, based on tweets from other passengers, that the bloodied man did eventually return to the plane.)

    While United's customer service policies in this case are clearly heinous and absurd, let's not forget to also cast blame on the police officers who actually committed the brutality on United's behalf. NPR reports that the cops attacking the man "appear to be wearing the uniforms of Chicago aviation police."

    While there may be something to be said for the ability for private businesses to summon the help of the police to remove people from their premises if they refuse to leave peacefully and their presence is unwanted, there is no excuse for the police to cooperate when the reason their presence is unwanted is not "causing a disturbance" or being violent or threatening to other customers, or stealing goods or services, or doing anything wrong at all, but rather wanting to peacefully use the service they legitimately paid for.

    Shame on both United for calling the cops on a passenger to make the lives of their employees and business easier, and shame on the police for having any part of it.

  27. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Was reading the fine print on a rather long (100s of pages) legal document the other day, and found some boilerplate that would have been extremely in the favor of the business that wanted me as a customer. Upon questioning them, they replied, "oh, that doesn't apply, and we would never do that. It's just some default stuff." Now I tend to believe that for the most part the individuals I was dealing with are being honest, but if anything were to go wrong, you can bet that their corporate lawyers would be all about that fine print. They assure me that the "real" terms will be different, but I have yet to see it in writing.
    You have nothing if it is not in writing.

  28. #204

  29. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    what I have heard, he was "misbehaving" and that is why the cops were called. I can understand him being upset, his wife got up and left him there too.

    but he seems to be mentally ill and/or medicated.

    No no breach of contract is necessary if the crew decides someone is not fit to be on your flight.
    Maybe United should consider hiring an airline psychiatrist so they can involuntarily commit crazy passengers who won't give up their seats for employees.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  30. #206
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  31. #207
    Last edited by CaptUSA; 04-12-2017 at 05:31 AM.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  32. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    You have nothing if it is not in writing.
    This is doubly true especially if the contract you signed contradicts what you were supposedly told in person by an employee. These sort of rules are put in place to enable the airlines to provide cheap ticket (relatively speaking), it is a pro customers rule and now they are getting shyte on for trying to satisfy their customers need for cheap tickets.

    Some of the posts on this thread could be confused for DU chatter. Big corporation vewy vewy bad cos they are trying to make profit so they can stay in business while satisfying the needs of their bargain hungry customer base. Big bad private corporation shouldn't be in business cos they cannot kiss the as* of every single one of their customers by bending the rules.

    I would be flying United just as long as they have the cheap ticket cos I just like most people out there is looking for a bargain



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  34. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Just another aspect of the police state.

    Millions of laws that no one can understand and comply with.

    Millions of contract points that no one can understand and comply with.
    I'm using that....
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever.

    It won't take very long to get them home but it won't be overnight either but Iraq says they can't stay and they are coming home just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined

  35. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Ironic that the stupid passenger is actually the one that gave United a black eye. I would personally sue him for breach of contract or something. You want to send a clear message to these type people who cannot follow simple rules that this kind of behaviour will not be tolerated.

    Just because you are a doctor doesn't mean the rules doesn't apply to you.

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