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Thread: IL-Man gets dragged off and bloodied for refusing to give up seat on United flight

  1. #571
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The Small Print vs. The Big Issue

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog...-vs-big-issue/

    Charles Goyette

    A couple bought a new home from a Phoenix builder. It was in a nice development, a new and conveniently located community, so attractive that it is not surprising that it was almost sold out.

    They sold their old home with a future closing date and made all the other arrangements to move into their new home at the scheduled construction completion date.

    When suddenly…

    When suddenly the builder rescinded that sale. It turned out that, thanks to the relocation of a major corporate employer, the builder had a chance to sell a large, unspecified number of new homes at once for relocating executives of the employer and it needed the additional house the Phoenix buyers had purchased to complete the big package deal.

    It should have been unthinkable, except for that fact that in the voluminous paperwork required in a real estate purchase today – paperwork swollen to indigestible proportions by bureaucrats trying to compensate with regulatory minutiae for all the things that went wrong in the housing bust ten years earlier — there was a term called “involuntary denied occupancy” that allowed the builder “for reasons of compelling economic necessity” to rescind the sale. Since it was tucked into the contract next to the force majeure clause that would have relieved the builder of performance in the (increasingly likely) event of a nuclear war, the buyers didn’t pay it any particular attention.

    Our would-be home buyers probably didn’t break their agreement down into its constituent elements. They simply thought in terms of the common law that we are all accustomed to. They thought they had a deal: offer and acceptance and all the rest.

    But their reasonable expectation that they had purchased a new home was wrong. They hadn’t. The contract ruled and they were out of luck. And out of a home.

    Sound crazy? Of course it is. This entire scenario is so utterly outrageous that by now I’m sure you know that I made the whole thing up, and that it is clear that I am only attempting to offer an imperfect analogy to the forced deplaning of that United Airlines passenger.

    I have been both surprised and disappointed to discover that so many of the people I esteem as great defenders of free people and free markets have written to defend United’s right to deny a seat to the holder of a paid ticket. The “involuntary denied boarding” clause is in the contract, they say, and it rules. It is in there fair and square, they say, and the passenger should have known it.

    Nobody books a flight and pays for it and is then told by the airline that it will honor the ticket only when it deems it convenient.

    But that is the practical effect of the “contract of carriage” fine print.

    Most of the commentary reasonably objects to the bloody treatment of the passenger, but otherwise it too often defends the airline’s right — not its judgment in doing so, but its right – to unilaterally rescind the purchase and bump its passenger. Some explain in needless detail all the reasons that airlines overbook flights. Those reasons are compelling for airlines, but they are a needless and irrelevant sidebar. Whatever their reasons, however much they value their practice of overbooking flights, airlines should be required to pay the price for it. They should assume its costs in their business practices. The economic efficiency of overbooking and bumping passengers can only be known for certain by discovering the real price of getting a passenger to relinquish his seat voluntarily. The price United offered in Chicago wasn’t the real price. That’s why United resorted to coercion. It made the passenger “an offer he couldn’t refuse.”

    Delta, wishing to avoid an incident like United’s, has decided to offer almost $10,000 to induce passengers to relinquish seats on overbooked flights. I doubt the bidding will often go that high, but who knows? It’s still cheap to avoid United’s public relations disaster.

    Some of the free market champions commenting on the story take solace at the public outcry against the airline, and trust that with either a lower share price or reduced bookings the airline will pay in the marketplace for yanking the traveler off the plane. I agree with them that it is great to see that the market is forcing United and other airlines to review their practices.

    My fellow free-marketeers are correct that United Airlines only hurt itself by its thuggish behavior. But these outrages have been going on for a long time; the only reason United has been caught is that the incident was captured on a cell-phone cameras. How have these airline eviction practices endured? It is evident from the outcry over the now-viral Chicago video that people are affronted by the airlines’ bumping passengers who are booked on flights. If the practice is so repugnant, why didn’t competitive forces bring it to a halt years ago?

    Let me put it a different way.

    How do the airlines get away with it?

    The answer is that the State protects them from competition. Commercial air travel today is not a free-market industry. Disagree? Try starting an airline. In an LA Times Op-Ed, Let Richard Branson Kill United Airlines, Matt Welch details some of ways the airlines are protected.

    In protecting the crony airlines from competition the State allows them to get away with the intolerable. And it forces us to tolerate the intolerable.

    But the issue that goes mostly unaddressed in the many defenses of United’s contractual rights is one of casuistry: the clever use of lawyerly reasoning or the exceedingly fine print of legal language and contractual minutiae to subvert the plain meaning of the purchase of a seat on an airline, a new home, or anything else.

    Nobody here is arguing against a close reading of terms and contracts in complex business deals and agreements. But must we go through the principal activities of our daily lives — shopping, traveling, and all the rest – needing to have a lawyer on speed dial or Black’s Law Dictionary in our hip pockets? Have you read the fine print that goes with your brokerage account? Have your assets – which you plainly think are yours – actually been pledged, repledged, hypothecated, or re-hypothecated by the brokerage house? When you clicked “Yes” in the box to download a piece of software, were you really agreeing to be Bill Gate’s towel boy?

    Here’s an entry on casuistry from the Oxford English Dictionary: “Casuistry destroys by distinctions and exceptions, all morality, and effaces the essential difference between right and wrong.”

    In the spirit of the Easter season I prefer the words of a higher authority who said of such casuistry that it ladens men “with burdens grievous to be borne.”

    No matter what they slip into the fine print.
    Really not a good analogy. More apropos would be the closing was delayed a day. And some form of compensation was offered.

    And that actually happens all the time without compensation, paperwork not right, finished, bank terms change, etc.

    but let's take an airline example, they say by delaying closing to tomorrow you get the same model of home or better and here is check for window dressings, warranty allowance, etc. See how that works?
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

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    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



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  3. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    United and United Express 3411 lose the O'Hare - Louisville air route granted by the FAA/goonerment as part of punitive damages to the company in the new lawsuit to hit the books in the second quarters earnings, all while they start flying more and more emptier planes.

    Dr. Dao damages aren't that much . . . except then the slander with release of personal info and "priors" to discredit the doctor.

    who researched and released his sordid past, you are saying United did? You have proof?
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  4. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Hadn't we established that juleswin is an Eduardo sock puppet?
    "The Patriarch"

  5. #574
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    edurado denies it, juleswin has remained silent..
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  6. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    edurado denies it, juleswin has remained silent..
    I'm highly doubtful. Seen a lot of his sock puppets, besides, juleswin has been here for a long time. I think the Eduardo would have come out by now.
    "The Patriarch"

  7. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    edurado denies it, juleswin has remained silent..
    Eduardo never really left the forum. He and I has been, is and will forever be a part of this forum. That is all I am going to say on the matter.



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  9. #577
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Eduardo never really left the forum. He and I has been, is and will forever be a part of this forum. That is all I am going to say on the matter.
    This just goes to show ya, perception is reality, unless Suzanimal is involved.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  10. #578
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    This just goes to show ya, perception is reality
    I thought the saying was "perception is not reality"? But the smart fellas on this site figured that I was sharing account with eddy. Now hope the mods don't catch on to my scam.

    We use VPN, ghost and phase shifter hacks to evade detection and that way, the two of us can still contribute to the discussion on this site. And we could have gotten away with it if not for those pesky, paranoid "see educardo at every corner" pompous posters.

    If this happens to be my last post, you guys can always contact me at eduardo/in/the/membrane@take/your/psych/pills.com. Take the / out to send

  11. #579
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Really not a good analogy. More apropos would be the closing was delayed a day. And some form of compensation was offered.

    And that actually happens all the time without compensation, paperwork not right, finished, bank terms change, etc.

    but let's take an airline example, they say by delaying closing to tomorrow you get the same model of home or better and here is check for window dressings, warranty allowance, etc. See how that works?
    Flew today BOS to MSY via IAH

    Had an overbook situation...the gate agents were handling it like it was plutonium.

    Bottom line, nobody was left behind, enough people too sore and stiff after running yesterday to get out of bed on time I suppose.

    I know I'm being petty and small, but I really do hate the pretentious douchebags hut hutting around with their marathon medals at the airport like they just were awarded a CMH.

    As if I couldn't tell you were a marathon runner by your goofy shoes, incandescent clothing and flat chests.

  12. #580
    The industry could be deregulated. Better for everyone.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  13. #581
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    The industry could be deregulated. Better for everyone.

    1978
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  14. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    1978
    Pan Am

  15. #583
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    This just goes to show ya, perception is reality, unless Suzanimal is involved.

    What did I do?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  16. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    What did I do?
    What didn't you do.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



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  18. #585
    Does this mean Danke is back??
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.

  19. #586
    http://www.baltimoresun.com/business...927-story.html
    Woman removed from Southwest plane at BWI Airport after reporting allergy, refusing to leave



    I liked when she said, "I'm a professor, what are you doing?"
    Guess she thought that was some type of privileged class or something.

  20. #587
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    1978
    Those were the days , I would just head down to the local airfield, stop at the bar , get a beer and walk around until I smelled weed then hire my own plane . Then I would negotiate the price down by about half . And no flight plan .
    Last edited by oyarde; 09-28-2017 at 10:57 AM.

  21. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Does this mean Danke is back??
    Yes but he only has part of a soul.

  22. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    http://www.baltimoresun.com/business...927-story.html
    Woman removed from Southwest plane at BWI Airport after reporting allergy, refusing to leave



    I liked when she said, "I'm a professor, what are you doing?"
    Guess she thought that was some type of privileged class or something.
    I thought the airlines have said they will no longer be using "police" to remove people from flights anymore unless they are "causing a disturbance". I guess wanting to get to your destination is now defined as "causing a disturbance"...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.

  23. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    I thought the airlines have said they will no longer be using "police" to remove people from flights anymore unless they are "causing a disturbance". I guess wanting to get to your destination is now defined as "causing a disturbance"...
    Evidently the pilot thought she was causing a disturbance. Can't really judge whether that is true based on the video. Besides, she claimed she had a life threatening allergy, they were doing her a favor.

  24. #591
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    I thought the airlines have said they will no longer be using "police" to remove people from flights anymore unless they are "causing a disturbance". I guess wanting to get to your destination is now defined as "causing a disturbance"...
    Well , she will get no sympathy because she came off as a crazy woman . She said she would die because of her allergy yet she did not. Most people lie but most people do not like liars .

  25. #592
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Evidently the pilot thought she was causing a disturbance. Can't really judge whether that is true based on the video. Besides, she claimed she had a life threatening allergy, they were doing her a favor.
    We have a medical clinic and my wife is the doctor. I've asked her how many of these "life threatening" allergies she knows of and with involvement in more than 25,000 cases she can't site any. Oh, I'm sure they are out there but most people's "allergy" is nothing more than a little rash but damn, they are going to make sure no one on the plane gets any peanuts...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.



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  27. #593
    I sure would like to have some peanuts with my beer . I blame Danke .

  28. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Well , she will get no sympathy because she came off as a crazy woman . She said she would die because of her allergy yet she did not. Most people lie but most people do not like liars .
    Crazy woman. You're being redundant again, that's like saying honest Injun.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  29. #595
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Crazy woman. You're being redundant again, that's like saying honest Injun.
    I am honest but only because I am supposed to set a good example . Otherwise I could make a killing setting up for a little gambling at the bar .

  30. #596
    So the $#@! cop sues United?

    How the $#@!...???


    United Airlines Sued Officer Who Dragged Dao Off Plane Says ... I'm Not to Blame!!!

    http://www.tmz.com/2018/04/11/united...ger-david-dao/

    4/11/2018 9:56 AM PDT

    Chicago Cop Who Dragged Dr. David Dao Off United Flight Sues Airline Over Firing

    The officer who violently dragged a United Airlines passenger last year says the airline set him up to take a fall, and he believes he was wrongly fired... according to a new suit.

    James Long was one of the Chicago aviation officers seen on video yanking Dr. David Dao off his flight in April 2017, and he's suing United -- along with the Chicago Dept. of Aviation (CDA) -- over losing his job.

    In the suit, Long says the airline should have known removing Dao from the flight would require "physical force," and says the CDA didn't properly train him for such situations. He also says the CDA's commissioner defamed him by saying he had acted inappropriately during the incident.

    Long wants at least $150k in damages and back pay stemming from his firing. As we reported, 2 officers were fired and another resigned months after Dao's dragging.

  31. #597
    I blame Danke
    Do something Danke

  32. #598
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    So the $#@! cop sues United?

    How the $#@!...???

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  33. #599
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    So the $#@! cop sues United?

    How the $#@!...???


    United Airlines Sued Officer Who Dragged Dao Off Plane Says ... I'm Not to Blame!!!

    http://www.tmz.com/2018/04/11/united...ger-david-dao/

    4/11/2018 9:56 AM PDT

    Chicago Cop Who Dragged Dr. David Dao Off United Flight Sues Airline Over Firing

    The officer who violently dragged a United Airlines passenger last year says the airline set him up to take a fall, and he believes he was wrongly fired... according to a new suit.

    James Long was one of the Chicago aviation officers seen on video yanking Dr. David Dao off his flight in April 2017, and he's suing United -- along with the Chicago Dept. of Aviation (CDA) -- over losing his job.

    In the suit, Long says the airline should have known removing Dao from the flight would require "physical force," and says the CDA didn't properly train him for such situations. He also says the CDA's commissioner defamed him by saying he had acted inappropriately during the incident.

    Long wants at least $150k in damages and back pay stemming from his firing. As we reported, 2 officers were fired and another resigned months after Dao's dragging.



    Kinda funny, it wasn't even a United flight. But a contracted service provided by Republic Airlines.

    And the cops are free to do whatever they think is appropriate in that situation. Not the airline call how they handle it. It is their decision how to handle it. It is like me calling the cops about a
    burglary. Am I now responsible on how the cops handled the situation? OK, I'm sure some will say they shouldn't have called the cops. OK, how do you remove him? If you read the whole story, it is different than what the media has presented. Hint, he was actually off the airplane already and ran back in, etc.


    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  34. #600
    didn't the guy some months ago say "they kill me. they kill me. they kill me" same as this guy? Are people combining the video clips?
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV



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