Suspected gas attack on Syria's rebel-held Idlib kills at least 58: Observatory

[TER]

Do you buy Syrian propaganda or independent sources on the ground? I'm going with the ground sources for now. Syria denied having any such weapons previously yet Russia said they would help get rid of the "non-existent" weapons. They lied about having any and may have lied about turning them all over. From the same Iranian News article:

How about using your common sense?

[Zippyjuan]

How about using your common sense?

I am.

[TER]

I am.

I see. So it is common sense for the Syrian regime to drop chemical bombs at a time when they are winning and are slowly regaining the upper hand and rebuilding the country?

[r3volution 3.0]

Could be a false flag; the rebels have a history of that.

On the other hand, could be real.

Assad is trying to win a war. The fighting is in cities. Civilians will get killed. No one should be surprised.

...and whether gas or bombs or bullets doesn't really matter, does it?

Anything to take focus away from Susan Rice.

This made me literally LOL.

...yes, let's not get distracted from the distraction.

Focus on the partisan circle jerk, not actual issues.

[Swordsmyth]

So... this thread is hot-topics worthy. But not other fake news threads like this:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...94-on-Taxpayer

By you The New American is fake news?

[TER]

Could be a false flag; the rebels have a history of that.

On the other hand, could be real.

Assad is trying to win a war. The fighting is in cities. Civilians will get killed. No one should be surprised.

...and whether gas or bombs or bullets doesn't really matter, does it?

Actually, with regards to international law, it does matter (at least in theory)

[Zippyjuan]

I see. So it is common sense for the Syrian regime to drop chemical bombs at a time when they are winning and are slowly regaining the upper hand and rebuilding the country?

Syria will use anything they think will help them. The entire war was started when he sent tanks after unarmed protesters. Rebuilding it? It is still being leveled. Though I do hope they are able to end the killing and destruction soon.

[TER]

Syria will use anything they think will help them. The entire war was started when he sent tanks after unarmed protesters. Rebuilding it? It is still being leveled.

So you believe that it makes common sense for them to use chemical bombs at this point? Or do you think they are just idiots and used them?

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

Words like " suspected " say a lot, no ?

The world's short term memory ain't that bad is it ?

[Zippyjuan]

So you believe that it makes common sense for them to use chemical bombs at this point? Or do you think they are just idiots and used them?

War rarely makes sense. Bombing hospitals makes no sense either yet he does it. I go with the latter.

[TER]

War rarely makes sense. Bombing hospitals makes no sense either yet he does it. I go with the latter.

So it's not common sense you are using, but rather basing your belief figuring that the military generals and Syrian leader are simply idiots and morons.

I would wager that it is you who is the idiot falling for the fake news which you post here daily and not the Syrian generals who would risk international fury for doing such a counterproductive measure as dropping chemical bombs.

[Zippyjuan]

So it's not common sense you are using, but rather basing your belief figuring that the military generals and Syrian leader are simply idiots and morons.

I would wager that it is you who is the idiot falling for the fake news which you post here daily and not the Syrian generals who would risk international fury for doing such as counterproductive measure as dropping chemical bombs.

I see you believe all of his propaganda. Assad does not care about international opinion. Only about Assad.

[TER]

I see you believe all of his propaganda. Assad does not care about international opinion. Only about Assad.

No, I believe common sense, and neither his or your propaganda.

[Zippyjuan]

Russia on Assad:

Our Russian guide in Syria, Major General Igor Konashenkov, is chief spokesman for the Ministry of Defense.

Vladimir Komoyedov: We know why the opposition was formed. It was formed due to the mistakes of the president of Syria himself.

Vladimir Komoyedov: The problem is that he has lost some of his authority. The people themselves must figure out, in elections, whom to follow and how to build their lives, which have been essentially ruined in Syria.

Ruined, in large part, by President Assad's own military. We got the sense Admiral Komoyedov is not crazy about the Syrian president, who has dropped bombs on his own people. The admiral used a derogatory term to describe Assad, then asked that we not repeat it on TV.

But they don't want to take him out. Not yet. First, they want to stabilize the country and then have elections.

Vladimir Komoyedov: If you cut off the head, you get chaos. There's chaos in Libya, chaos essentially in Iraq. Half the country is under ISIL. And the head was chopped off there, you see. So, if you want to so stubbornly remove the leaders of Syria, it's an enormous mistake.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minut...bill-whitaker/

[r3volution 3.0]

Actually, with regards to international law, it does matter (at least in theory)

I mean that it makes no difference ethically - murdered's murdered.

Hence the anti-Assad people should stop focusing on these gas attacks (focus instead on the civilian deaths which we know have been caused by conventional weapons), while the pro-Assad people shouldn't be so desperate to claim these gas attacks are false flags (if you're already endorsing Assad's military activities, you're already willing to accept some civilian causalities, the choice of weapon shouldn't matter).

[TER]

I'm not saying that Assad is a saint. I'm saying that is goes against all common sense that he would order a chemical attack which is the propaganda you and the media outlets you keep posting from are pushing.

[Zippyjuan]

I'm not saying that Assad is a saint. I'm saying that is goes against all common sense that he would order a chemical attack which is the propaganda you and the media outlets you keep posting from are pushing.

Declaring war against his own people also made no sense.

[TER]

Declaring war against his own people also made no sense.

That might be true, but what you are pushing as propaganda makes even less sense. You know it, and I know it.

[RJB]

So Zip, were you for the invasion of Iraq because of their use of chemical weapons, based on similar intelligence?

You also realize that calling for regime change and a no fly zone over Syria is as off the wall as Russia demanding the same thing about Iraq, right?

Do you buy Syrian propaganda or independent sources on the ground? I'm going with the ground sources for now. Syria denied having any such weapons previously yet Russia said they would help get rid of the "non-existent" weapons. They lied about having any and may have lied about turning them all over. From the same Iranian News article:



Russia does not deny the event happening only that their planes were not involved. That also hints that it did occur and that it was Syria since they were the only other ones active in the area. https://www.rt.com/usa/383507-tiller...ack-gas-syria/

[r3volution 3.0]

I'm not saying that Assad is a saint. I'm saying that is goes against all common sense that he would order a chemical attack which is the propaganda you and the media outlets you keep posting from are pushing.

That line of propaganda peaked in 2013.

It doesn't matter anymore - gas fatigue.

There's really no reason for Assad not to use chemical weapons if it's militarily expedient.

[silverhandorder]

It's ok Assad will soon help them.

[TER]

That line of propaganda peaked in 2013.

It doesn't matter anymore.

There's really no reason for Assad not to use chemical weapons if it's not militarily expedient.

So you think, however, the point remians: It does not make political sense, military sense, or common sense for them to do it. You know it, Zippy knows it, I know it, and every one with half a brain knows it.

The only alternate reason, which Zippy is now using as a reason, is that they are simply complete fools and idiots. This is not using common sense. Rather, it is blindly believeing the non common sense propaganda from those who wish to create more turmoil.

[r3volution 3.0]

It does not make...military sense

I don't see how you could know that. I certainly don't know that.

One obvious military benefit of gas is that it allows one to kill people without destroying infrastructure.

Infrastructure being in rather short supply these days in Syria, that might be a motive.

[Zippyjuan]

So Zip, were you for the invasion of Iraq because of their use of chemical weapons, based on similar intelligence?

You also realize that calling for regime change and a no fly zone over Syria is as off the wall as Russia demanding the same thing about Iraq, right?

Invasion of Iraq was stupid and unjustified too. That set in motion all of the problems the Middle East faces today. US getting involved in Syria isn't helping either. Bush was getting nowhere in Afghanistan and his hunt for Bin Laden and wanted a distraction. He saw how short the Iraq war his dad fought went and thought he could do it quicker and better (by taking out Saddam instead of stopping after liberating Kuwait). He also thought it could be done cheaply (allies- mostly Saudi Arabia- reimbursed the US for the costs of the Gulf War). He was sooo wrong.

[navy-vet]

Looks to me like the CIA is at it again.

My thoughts too. They may have used their proxy, ISIS.

[CPUd]

https://twitter.com/MatthewRycroft1/...03125970350080

[dannno]

Assad does not care about international opinion. Only about Assad.

Pretty sure they both go hand in hand.

[RJB]

Invasion of Iraq was stupid and unjustified too. That set in motion all of the problems the Middle East faces today. US getting involved in Syria isn't helping either. Bush was getting nowhere in Afghanistan and his hunt for Bin Laden and wanted a distraction. He saw how short the Iraq war his dad fought went and thought he could do it quicker and better (by taking out Saddam instead of stopping after liberating Kuwait). He also thought it could be done cheaply (allies- mostly Saudi Arabia- reimbursed the US for the costs of the Gulf War). He was sooo wrong.

I ask because most of the people questioning whether this was committed by Assad are wary of entering a new war.

On the other hand, the people who are already sure this was definitely perpetrated by Assad and Putin remind many of us of the neocons beating the war drums for the Iraqi invasion.

I'm waiting to hear Powell say that Syria is an imminent threat.

[TER]

I don't see how you could know that. I certainly don't know that.

One obvious military benefit of gas is that it allows one to kill people without destroying infrastructure.

Infrastructure being in rather short supply these days in Syria, that might be a motive.

Ok. That could be a possible motive to use chemical bombs.

Do you think Assad, who has just been given a second lease on life and just resisted his country from being taken over by a fundamentalist caliphate funded by bigger powers in the world, would risk everything by using chemical bombs with civilians around in order to save buildings?

I mean, sure, someone can be that stupid, but Assad is not an idiot.

So, to state that idiocy is the reason for his damning use of chemical weapons is not using common sense. It is using idiot sense.

People are waking up because they see that the fakestream media is ripe with lies, and distortions, and omissions and blackouts (re: Ron Paul 2008). These are manufactured by corporate fat cats to make us think and act a certain way. The media sources which are often being referenced to, copied from, and posted here (by a few posters) have already been discredited in the eyes of the masses and have proven themselves to be a propoganda arm of elitists and corporate billionaires, to the benefit of the few.

Let us now start to think like at least like the common man and with common sense, and not forget our mind and our spirit.

[juleswin]

Syria will use anything they think will help them. The entire war was started when he sent tanks after unarmed protesters. Rebuilding it? It is still being leveled. Though I do hope they are able to end the killing and destruction soon.

How would doing something that bring the the Americans into the war help anything. You know, when the Americans and/or NATO come into the war, the victories in Daraa, Damascus country side, Palmyra, Aleppo, Latakia etc would all be wiped out.

Sorry Zippy, it doesn't make any sense that they would risk such an attack in the last terrorist bastion of Idlib when the know the terrorists of the country would have ample opportunity to make propaganda video with the footage they collected. The most likely story is that they hit a rebel chemical plant that triggered a chain reaction that killed more terrorists and their family members.

It sucks but that is what happens when you try to violently occupy a country