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Thread: What kind of world is this?

  1. #1

    What kind of world is this?



    A Butler County man charged with homicide, sexually assaulted a 4-year-old boy to the point that the child bled to death, according to the criminal complaint filed against the man Monday.
    http://triblive.com/local/regional/1...4-year-old-boy

    This is just too heartbreaking. This child's mother and grandfather are friends of our family. I didn't know this dirtbag, but I have to assume that there are serious issues here beyond just the drugs. The heroin epidemic has hit that county hard, but I can't see a drug causing someone to do this by itself.

    Just terrible. If you pray, please send a prayer to these people. They've made some bad decisions, but no one deserves this.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  3. #2
    My god.

    Evil exists..... anyone have any doubts, see link above.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  4. #3
    I do not pray but maybe I should start, because man, this world is $#@!ed up.

    Take care of your friends.
    "I am a bird"

  5. #4
    Another case of kops-n-kourts protecting somebody who needs killing.



    My condolences to the family.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Another case of kops-n-kourts protecting somebody who needs killing.



    My condolences to the family.
    I would feel no remorse putting a bullet in the brain-pan.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I would feel no remorse putting a bullet in the brain-pan.
    I'd feel better dispensing justice with an Estwing....

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post




    http://triblive.com/local/regional/1...4-year-old-boy

    This is just too heartbreaking. This child's mother and grandfather are friends of our family. I didn't know this dirtbag, but I have to assume that there are serious issues here beyond just the drugs. The heroin epidemic has hit that county hard, but I can't see a drug causing someone to do this by itself.

    Just terrible. If you pray, please send a prayer to these people. They've made some bad decisions, but no one deserves this.
    That poor baby. This is just horrible and I'll pray for the folks involved - not the boyfriend or his mother, though. I pray they rot in hell. If that makes me a bad person, well...

    I'm sorry I read that story. Nauseating on every level. And frankly, there's something not right with mom if she's hanging around scum like that. I agree with you, this kind of act goes deeper than drugs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  9. #8
    We live in a hard, terrible world.

    But we must not let that make us hard, terrible people. Otherwise we will be no different than those we despise.

    Murdering a murder is still murder. Vengeance is not justice. Justice restores. Justice would demand the murderer return all the life, work, and wealth that the child could have given. Vengeance only seeks to hurt someone else as much as they hurt you. Simply killing someone will neither bring peace nor see justice done. Vengeance killing doesn't take away the pain or make you feel better in any way. And you can never hurt someone else so much they feel the pain you do, the way you do, to the magnitude you do. Human suffering is so individualized that it simply doesn't work that way. No amount of torture and slaughter will ever meet your goals in killing the other person in the first place. Whether for justice or vengeance, killing murderers accomplishes none of that.

    Not to mention the many people who are convicted of a crime and who are innocent and yet suffer under these laws.

    This isn't a plea for mercy for this person if they are convicted of the crime. Instead I want real justice done, not murder masquerading as justice.
    Last edited by PierzStyx; 03-28-2017 at 02:09 PM.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    We live in a hard, terrible world.

    But we must not let that make us hard, terrible people. Otherwise we will be no different than those we despise.

    Murdering a murder is still murder. Vengeance is not justice. Justice restores. Justice would demand the murderer return all the life, work, and wealth that the child could have given. Vengeance only seeks to hurt someone else as much as they hurt you. Simply killing someone will neither bring peace nor see justice done. Vengeance killing doesn't take away the pain or make you feel better in any way. And you can never hurt someone else so much they feel the pain you do, the way you do, to the magnitude you do. Human suffering is so individualized that it simply doesn't work that way. No amount of torture and slaughter will ever meet your goals in killing the other person in the first place. Whether for justice or vengeance, killing murderers accomplishes none of that.

    Not to mention the many people who are convicted of a crime and who are innocent and yet suffer under these laws.
    I get what you're saying and deep down, I know you're right BUT if someone hurt one of my sons that way, I would kill them in a heartbeat. It probably wouldn't make me feel better but I certainly wouldn't feel bad about it, either. Honestly, I don't think I'd have any self control.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    We live in a hard, terrible world.

    But we must not let that make us hard, terrible people. Otherwise we will be no different than those we despise.

    Murdering a murder is still murder. Vengeance is not justice. Justice restores. Justice would demand the murderer return all the life, work, and wealth that the child could have given. Vengeance only seeks to hurt someone else as much as they hurt you. Simply killing someone will neither bring peace nor see justice done. Vengeance killing doesn't take away the pain or make you feel better in any way. And you can never hurt someone else so much they feel the pain you do, the way you do, to the magnitude you do. Human suffering is so individualized that it simply doesn't work that way. No amount of torture and slaughter will ever meet your goals in killing the other person in the first place. Whether for justice or vengeance, killing murderers accomplishes none of that.

    Not to mention the many people who are convicted of a crime and who are innocent and yet suffer under these laws.

    This isn't a plea for mercy for this person if they are convicted of the crime. Instead I want real justice done, not murder masquerading as justice.
    I'm not a capital punishment individual. I'm well aware of the failings of the justice system ( see my sig ). I speak against it constantly. I have contributed to https://www.innocenceproject.org/.

    That said, if I knew this individual and that he did what he is said to have done, if I knew, then the "justice system" would only be protecting him.

    I wouldn't torture. I would, if given the opportunity, just simply end the chance that it would ever happen, because he has proven himself capable, again.

    I shoot poisonous snakes around my property. I trap field mice in my home. And if you are a smart man you will not use these two sentences against me in argument.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    We live in a hard, terrible world.

    But we must not let that make us hard, terrible people. Otherwise we will be no different than those we despise.

    Murdering a murder is still murder. Vengeance is not justice. Justice restores. Justice would demand the murderer return all the life, work, and wealth that the child could have given. Vengeance only seeks to hurt someone else as much as they hurt you. Simply killing someone will neither bring peace nor see justice done. Vengeance killing doesn't take away the pain or make you feel better in any way. And you can never hurt someone else so much they feel the pain you do, the way you do, to the magnitude you do. Human suffering is so individualized that it simply doesn't work that way. No amount of torture and slaughter will ever meet your goals in killing the other person in the first place. Whether for justice or vengeance, killing murderers accomplishes none of that.

    Not to mention the many people who are convicted of a crime and who are innocent and yet suffer under these laws.

    This isn't a plea for mercy for this person if they are convicted of the crime. Instead I want real justice done, not murder masquerading as justice.
    You may have your kops, kourts and "Just-Us...

    I'd not bat an eye ripping apart a baby raper with my bare hands.

    Justice isn't as you say 'compensation and made whole' in cases of child molestation (4 years old is certainly a child!).

    I would be fine with family deciding what 'justice' they want and dispensing it publically....

    But I will never be fine with the system currently in place, the system that lets baby rapers go to psych wards and sentences pot farmers to life, that system isn't suitable to dispense 'justice'....

  14. #12
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  15. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Vengeance is not justice.
    Even political assassination?
    Last edited by Lamp; 03-28-2017 at 03:13 PM.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Murdering a murderer is still murder.
    No it's not.

    Murder, killing, murder, murder, woe is me, we'd be no better than them (paraphrase)
    Killing is sometimes (often) justified. Not all killing is murder. Killing of grievous aggressors is not murder.

    killing murderers accomplishes none of that.
    What it accomplishes is: the goal of the act. Namely:

    • Removes murderer from society permanently.
    • Prevents murderer from fathering further children thereby perpetuating his faulty genes.

    Both of these salutatory consequences prevent him, insofar as possible, from causing any further ill effects upon our society.

  17. #15
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    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to helmuth_hubener again.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    No it's not.



    Killing is sometimes (often) justified. Not all killing is murder. Killing of grievous aggressors is not murder.

    What it accomplishes is: the goal of the act. Namely:

    • Removes murderer from society permanently.
    • Prevents murderer from fathering further children thereby perpetuating his faulty genes.

    Both of these salutatory consequences prevent him, insofar as possible, from causing any further ill effects upon our society.
    Brutally, publically ending the life of a baby raper (or politician) serves as a deterrent for those contemplating such behavior...



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  20. #17
    Ugh. What an exhausting week!

    First, this coward ran and hid for a few days. Now, they have court hearings to go over it again and again. It's a fairly small town and you can imagine the whole town is caught up in this incident. There's no place the family can go where someone won't approach them. The intentions are great, but the constant reminders have to be unbearable.

    I haven't spoken to the mother since she was a kid, but she was always a sweet girl. Looking at her FB pictures, you'd never know what kind of psycho she hooked up with. I'm not surprised anymore when I hear someone is addicted to heroin. So don't even get surprised at the OD's. You have good kids from good families getting caught up in those social circles. But this?! This is just inhuman.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  21. #18
    And!!! This poor girl has a newborn that is the spawn of this monster. Who knows what ripples may happen. How do you look at your baby without seeing the man who did this to your other kid? Yeah. $#@!ed up $#@!storm, all around.
    Last edited by CaptUSA; 03-28-2017 at 04:32 PM.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    No it's not.



    Killing is sometimes (often) justified. Not all killing is murder. Killing of grievous aggressors is not murder.

    What it accomplishes is: the goal of the act. Namely:

    • Removes murderer from society permanently.
    • Prevents murderer from fathering further children thereby perpetuating his faulty genes.

    Both of these salutatory consequences prevent him, insofar as possible, from causing any further ill effects upon our society.
    You apparently don't know what the definition of "murder" is, so I'll help you.

    Murder:the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder) and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder)
    So, in what way is the planned state sponsored execution of another person, one which is years in the planning NOT murder? It is murder. It fits all the needed qualifications for the definition. So you are, proved by evidence, wrong.

    Killing another person is only justified when they are in the act of trying to kill you. When someone is under arrest they are not an active threat to your life in any way. Therefore you are not justified by self-defense in killing them.

    Removing a person from society can be accomplished in ways other than killing them. But more importantly, that isn't the goal of justice. Justice is about restitution. Killing the murderer actually violates justice and prevents it form occurring.

    Further it doesn't actually remove a murderer from society. After all, you have just become one yourself and here you are calling for the murder of more people. Society is just as in danger as before.

    Prevents murderer from fathering further children thereby perpetuating his faulty genes.
    And this is just idiotic. I cannot believe that even in the 21st century there are people who still think that crime has anything to do with your genetics.

    The irony is that eugenics actually cripples human diversity, making it easier to hurt the entire population with disease and other biological problem, as well as making it harder to adapt to a multitude of situations. Eugenics cripples people, not helps them. http://link.springer.com/article/10....Fs100510070148

    Which is already a big issue because humans are amazingly genetically similar as it already is. There is less genetic diversity between two people of two different races and cultures on opposite sides of the world than there is between two chimps of the same troop that are all directly related to each other. http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2008/03/17...tic-diversity/

    Which of course culminates in the simple scientific fact that racism is idiotic. It is an illusion, not a reality. https://www.theguardian.com/science/...genomes-darwin

    Indeed, the role of genetics at all in human behavior is minimal, if there is any effect at all. That alone is unprovable because even if you could point to a single gene as an influence on human behavior it is but one of many and has way less of an impact on human action than environmental factors.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8gt545ZN_0&t=5m10s

    Modern science has done away with the fallacy of eugenics for a reason, because it is philosophical bull crap aimed at propping up violent statists in their ability to attack others and violate their rights and not in science.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Brutally, publically ending the life of a baby raper (or politician) serves as a deterrent for those contemplating such behavior...
    Actually it does not. There is absolutely no evidence that proves that the death penalty deters people from killing others.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.6d23dfbb1133

    For a longer, in depth look, here is a paper from Dartmouth on the issue: https://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/te...es/JLpaper.pdf

    The only thing proven about the death penalty is its liabilities, the expensive nature of it and the fact that thousands of people a year are convicte dof crimes they did not commit, including murder.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by HitoKichi View Post
    Even political assassination?
    Nope. In reality assassination accomplishes nothing. It is the system that gave the tyrant power and that system still exists after the tyrant's death. Only a new tyrant will come to power.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    You may have your kops, kourts and "Just-Us...

    I'd not bat an eye ripping apart a baby raper with my bare hands.

    Justice isn't as you say 'compensation and made whole' in cases of child molestation (4 years old is certainly a child!).

    I would be fine with family deciding what 'justice' they want and dispensing it publically....

    But I will never be fine with the system currently in place, the system that lets baby rapers go to psych wards and sentences pot farmers to life, that system isn't suitable to dispense 'justice'....
    I absolutely agree that the current justice system is inherently flawed and doesn't dispense justice to the people. Your every criticism is exactly on point. But I wasn't really talking about the justice system.

    And the problem with passion is that the extremity of our emotions are not usually inclined to justice. I don't feel differently than you. But if we want a just society then we can't be ruled by raw emotion alone.

    In fact I agree that just putting a killer in a mental ward wouldn't accomplish justice either. Justice is about restoration, giving back as much as possible what was taken. We all acknowledge this just about everywhere else. If someone steals from you, what do you get back? What was taken or compensation of equal value. This is why executions can never accomplish justice, because by killing the person you are actually ending their ability to restore in anyway what they have taken.

    So, what would justice look like in this case? That I will admit to not knowing. Since a child was horribly murdered, perhaps lifelong indentured servitude would be a more just sentence. Instead of killing the person, make them work the rest of their lives providing labor and wealth to the family.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I'm not a capital punishment individual. I'm well aware of the failings of the justice system ( see my sig ). I speak against it constantly. I have contributed to https://www.innocenceproject.org/.

    That said, if I knew this individual and that he did what he is said to have done, if I knew, then the "justice system" would only be protecting him.

    I wouldn't torture. I would, if given the opportunity, just simply end the chance that it would ever happen, because he has proven himself capable, again.

    I shoot poisonous snakes around my property. I trap field mice in my home. And if you are a smart man you will not use these two sentences against me in argument.
    Sure. But animals are not people. And people do not lose their rights when they have done something evil. This is what it means for a right to be inherent and inalienable, natural and permanent.

    And I don't see how you committing the same kind of mistakes and evils that the justice system does makes you any better than it. Indeed, it seems you would be becoming what you hate most.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    I get what you're saying and deep down, I know you're right BUT if someone hurt one of my sons that way, I would kill them in a heartbeat. It probably wouldn't make me feel better but I certainly wouldn't feel bad about it, either. Honestly, I don't think I'd have any self control.
    I can't say what I would do if I walked in and found it happening. And I don't think I could judge anyone who killed someone in that instance.

    But that isn't what we have here. Here we have an opportunity to find real justice, not just dish out punishment. The urge to punishment is understandable, but that is why these types of decisions aren't in the hands of family to begin with. Justice requires clearheaded thinking, not our raw emotional reactions.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Sure. But animals are not people. And people do not lose their rights when they have done something evil. This is what it means for a right to be inherent and inalienable, natural and permanent.
    a
    And I don't see how you committing the same kind of mistakes and evils that the justice system does makes you any better than it. Indeed, it seems you would be becoming what you hate most.
    Aberrations of nature do not long survive.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Actually it does not. There is absolutely no evidence that proves that the death penalty deters people from killing others.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.6d23dfbb1133

    For a longer, in depth look, here is a paper from Dartmouth on the issue: https://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/te...es/JLpaper.pdf

    The only thing proven about the death penalty is its liabilities, the expensive nature of it and the fact that thousands of people a year are convicte dof crimes they did not commit, including murder.
    "The death penalty" as it sits certainly doesn't serve as a deterrent...

    However............I did not describe the death penalty as it sits..

    If the child's mother, or father broke every bone in the rapists hands and feet with a claw hammer then nailed his gonads to the floor handed him a dull butter knife and lit the place on fire.........

    That would absolutely serve as a deterrent....

    "Brutal and public" were the operative words in my post.

  31. #27
    Is the drug angle mentioned on FedBook, because nothing in the news article posted by the OP does it say anything about drugs?

  32. #28
    It is no different than killing dangerous bacteria or viral organisms, or a rabid animal, than to end something like this. It is not human nor is it an animal. It's an anomaly. a demon. To risk the lives of a human being to preserve this thing is unfair and irresponsible. Should I, heaven forbid, ever commit such an atrocity, and lack the courage to do what must be done, please please put me down.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Is the drug angle mentioned on FedBook, because nothing in the news article posted by the OP does it say anything about drugs?
    Personal insight - sorry.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Personal insight - sorry.
    No need to apologize, I understand, I was just curious, because usually the cops would throw drug/drug paraphernalia charges on him as well.

    I am truly sorry this is hitting so close to home.

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