Results 1 to 26 of 26

Thread: Wisconsin Regulators Deny Consumers Choice to Purchase Soy-free Eggs on the Market for 7 Year

  1. #1

    Wisconsin Regulators Deny Consumers Choice to Purchase Soy-free Eggs on the Market for 7 Year



    Would you like to pick up your eggs from the farm and transport them to your home without refrigeration? Wisconsin says “NO” – shuts down egg operation.

    People with allergies to soy protein now have one less source for purchasing soy-free eggs. Two small-scale farmers in Wisconsin have been informed by the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture that they must stop selling their soy-free and GMO-tested eggs to consumers until they meet state government regulations for shipping eggs that they allege the farmers are violating. They have been shipping their eggs directly to the homes of customers throughout the United States since the beginning of 2010.

    In letters dated, March 13, 2017, the State of Wisconsin sent two farmers who are part of the Wisconsin Pasturelands Cooperative a Cease and Desist order regarding their eggs. The two farmers were informed that they were selling eggs and shipping them to consumers without proper refrigeration during shipping. They were specifically instructed that until this situation is corrected, “you shall not hold, process, package or sell the eggs for human consumption from your home or any other location.”

    The farmer cooperative run by Amish in rural Wisconsin since 2010 has been working together with an Internet business, Tropical Traditions (now Healthy Traditions), to market their eggs from cage-free chickens fed a specially developed feed that contains no soy, no corn, and ingredients that are tested to be free from GMOs and the herbicide glyphosate.

    They are believed to be one of the first ones in the U.S. to offer eggs from chickens on a soy-free diet. The eggs were marketed under the Grass-fed Traditions brand, which is now part of the Healthy Traditions product line offering alternatives to commodity food. Healthy Traditions tests their products for the presence of GMOs and the herbicide glyphosate.

    While the State of Wisconsin is claiming that the farmers are violating regulations for the refrigerated transportation of eggs, there is no indication that these regulations apply to consumers transporting their own eggs, whether they are transporting the eggs themselves directly from the farm, or paying someone else to ship them on their behalf.

    Do Eggs Purchased by Consumers Need to be Shipped Refrigerated After Purchase?

    When the Wisconsin Pasturelands Cooperative began producing their soy-free eggs in 2009, they consulted with local officials working with the USDA. They were told that there were no regulations in place directing consumers to transport their eggs refrigerated, and that current regulations for transporting eggs were in place for large commercial egg operations for transporting their eggs to retail establishments. The Wisconsin Amish farmers constructed insulated ice houses to ensure that the eggs were always stored in temperatures below 45 degrees prior to shipping them to the consumers, in compliance with state regulations.

    When Tropical Traditions offered the eggs online, they offered the consumers a choice of shipping options to have the farmers ship the eggs directly to them from the farm, including overnight shipment. They were informed before purchasing that the eggs were shipped unrefrigerated:

    These eggs are not graded and will vary in size. They are shipped to you directly from the farm. The farmers are part of Wisconsin Pastureland. Tropical Traditions provides the payment service for you to purchase these eggs directly from the farmer, and delivery is provided to you via a national transportation company such as FedEx or UPS which you will choose at check out. Eggs are shipped unrefrigerated. Contact us for alternative delivery options if you need refrigerated shipping.
    It has been well-documented that if eggs are not produced in “factory farms” where chickens are kept in small cages, that there is no need to refrigerate them. The U.S. is one of the few countries in the world that requires eggs to be sold refrigerated. Most of Europe, in contrast, sells eggs at room temperature.

    Dr. Mercola writes:

    If you’re an A
    merican, you probably store eggs in the refrigerator – and wouldn’t think of doing it any other way.

    Yet, the US is one of the only countries where chicken eggs are kept refrigerated. In much of Europe, for instance, eggs are often stored right on the counter, at room temperature.

    But then, US eggs would be illegal in Europe due to an egg-washing process that may actually make them more susceptible to contamination with bacteria like Salmonella.

    When you have eggs from tens of thousands of chickens – or more — all under one roof, there’s a good chance they’re going to get feces and other contaminants on them. The US solution, rather than reducing the size of the flocks and ensuring better sanitation and access to the outdoors, is to wash the eggs. But this isn’t as innocuous as it sounds.

    As the eggs are scrubbed, rinsed, dried, and spritzed with a chlorine mist, its protective cuticle may be compromised. This is a natural barrier that comes from the mother hen that lays the egg, and it acts as a shield against bacteria.

    It even contains antimicrobial properties. US egg-washing strips this natural protectant from the egg, which may actually make it more likely to become contaminated. According to European Union (EU) guidelines:

    “Such damage may favor trans-shell contamination with bacteria and moisture loss and thereby increase the risk to consumers, particularly if subsequent drying and storage conditions are not optimal.”

    Industrial egg washing, by the way, is banned in much of Europe, not only because of potential damage to the eggs’ cuticles but also because it might allow for more “sloppy” egg-producing practices. The chief executive of Britain’s Egg Industry Council told Forbes:

    “In Europe, the understanding is that [prohibiting the washing and cleaning of eggs] actually encourages good husbandry on farms. It’s in the farmers’ best interests then to produce the cleanest eggs possible, as no one is going to buy their eggs if they’re dirty.” (See: Americans – Why Do You Keep Refrigerating Your Eggs?)
    The farmers in Wisconsin Pasturelands Cooperative have very small flocks that are free range, and they did not wash the eggs prior to storage. Just before shipping the eggs to the consumer, they used a coconut water vinegar solution to wash the eggs, and then coated them with coconut oil just prior to shipment.

    Is California Department of Food and Agriculture Behind Demands to Stop Selling Wisconsin Eggs to Protect the Commercial California Egg Industry?

    In 2012 “Egg Safety Quality Management Central District Supervisor” John Ramos of the California Department of Food and Agriculture (CDFA) attempted to stop the shipment of eggs from the Wisconsin Pasturelands Cooperative into California.

    CDFA had somehow obtained a box of eggs from a FedEx facility that was being shipped to a Tropical Traditions customer.

    Mr. Ramos sent a letter to Tropical Traditions demanding that they immediately stop selling eggs in California, stating that the package they found in the FedEx facility was not refrigerated properly. It should be noted that this action was taken after seizing a package in a FedEx facility in route to a customer, not because of any customer complaint about the eggs. He stated:

    I received informaion (sic) from one of our Stanislaus County Inspector who was at a Fed-Express office. He noticed a package being delivered from your company. The pictures he sent me where that of the egg carton you are using to package your eggs. There are several violations on the container:

    1. No Plant number

    2. No sell by date

    3. No size or grade “not graded” is not acceptable.

    In addition you are not allowed to ship non refrigerated eggs to consumers. (45 degrees F)
    In his correspondence Mr. Ramos asked:

    Are you a registered egg handler?

    Where are the eggs being packed?

    How long have you been selling eggs?

    Also is there a physical address for the Springville, CA location?

    I will be in the Springville area tomorrow doing some inspections.
    Tropical Traditions simply maintains a Springville California address for handling mail orders. So when Mr. Ramos showed up at the local post office in Springville, he reportedly flashed his badge and intimidated postal workers into giving him the personal residence address of one of Tropical Traditions managers.

    He allegedly showed up at the manager’s personal residence, and demanded to see the egg operation. Seeing that there was obviously no egg farm on his property, the manager reportedly informed the inspector that the egg operation was in Wisconsin, and that Tropical Traditions never took possession of the egg inventory – they simply provided an online service whereby consumers could purchase the eggs directly from the consumer. The farmers in Wisconsin were in complete compliance with regulations of selling eggs directly to the consumer from their farms, according to local authorities in Wisconsin.

    It would seem that perhaps CDFA learned their lesson from the 2012 incident, where they had no jurisdiction over farmers in Wisconsin. When Wisconin Inspector Michael Pederson delivered the Cease and Desist letters this month (March 2017) from Michelle J. Krisher, Regulatory Specialist – Senior with the DIVISION OF FOOD & RECREATIONAL SAFETY of Wisconsin, the farmers asked who had complained about their eggs. The reply alleged given by Mr. Pederson was simply that it “came from California.”

    Since Wisconsin would have no jurisdiction over customer complaints from California, and given the past history of CDFA in trying to stop the Wisconsin eggs from being shipped into California, it is reasonable to suspect that once again this complaint came from CDFA in California.

    California has a history of trying to protect its commercial egg operations from eggs imported from other states. In 2014 a new law went into effect in California requiring caged chickens to have more room in their cages, instantly excluding many commercial egg operations from selling in California. NPR reported:

    [O]n Jan. 1, all eggs sold in California will have to come from chickens that live in more spacious quarters — almost twice as spacious, in fact, as the cages that have been the industry standard.

    It’s been a shock to the egg industry, and to grocery stores.

    Proposition 2, as it’s called, required eggs in California to come from chickens that have enough room to fully extend their limbs and turn around freely. It was a direct challenge to the egg industry, because most egg-laying chickens can’t do that in standard henhouses, where they live in small cages, five or 10 birds to a cage.

    In the end, they decided that each chicken is legally entitled to at least 116 square inches of floor space.

    As a result, as of Jan. 1, most egg producers in the U.S. cannot sell eggs in California.
    California gave egg producers inside the state several years to comply with the new law, but did not extend that exemption to producers in other states. As a result, several states have sued California over the law, but so far they have been unsuccessful. (See: Eggs lawsuit by Iowa, other states is rejected)

    Are the Farmers Violating any Laws in Shipping Eggs to Consumers Unrefigerated?

    This seems to be the heart of the matter. Is it really the responsibility of the State of Wisconsin to tell me how I must have my eggs delivered?

    Let’s consider this example. I go to an small farm on a warm day in summer and buy a dozen eggs. I put them on the back seat of my car and then head back home. Along the way, I decide to stop and buy gas. While filling my tank I meet an old friend who invites me to have coffee with him. So, I leave my car and my eggs and spend a relaxing hour in conversation. Finally, I return home and put my eggs in the fridge. Now, it was my choice to keep the eggs in an unrefrigerated car for several hours. I had this choice, because I owned the eggs and could do whatever I wanted to do with them. It was my choice to delay refrigeration or to bring my own cooler for keeping them cold.

    Now let’s say I live 150 miles from the farm and don’t want to make a 300-mile round trip to buy eggs. So, I get out my credit card and buy the eggs online. During the checkout process I need to choose whether I want 1-day, 2-day, or standard ground delivery. Again, the choice is mine and the responsibility is mine, because I am buying the eggs and I own them. If I want overnight delivery, then I pay for it. If I want ground delivery, then that is my choice. I get to choose how long I want my eggs to be unrefrigerated. Since I know that unrefrigerated eggs will stay fresh for weeks, I don’t worry about them being in shipping for a couple days.

    If I want ground delivery in a standard uninsulated box, then I should be allowed to make that choice. It seems to me that they are stretching the egg handling regulations to include the shipping of personal internet purchases, when the regulations do not discuss such matters.

    One must wonder why they are doing this. One must wonder if there is an ulterior motive somewhere behind all of this. One must wonder why exceptions to the regulations could not have been provided.

    One of the Healthiest Eggs on the Market for the Past 7 Years is Now Lost



    When the Grass-fed Traditions soy-free eggs appeared on the market in 2010, it was the culmination of about 2 years of research and development to develop a layer ration that was free from soybeans. Such a poultry layer ration was not commercially available at the time.

    Why was it important to develop a poultry feed ration free from soy? As Grass-fed Traditions explains on their website:

    Soy has become a big part of the human diet post World War II, with the result that there are many people with soy allergies today, and many people today are trying to reduce or eliminate soy protein from their diet.

    Soy is the cheapest protein available today, and it is a major component of most animal feeds. Cheap soy protein allows chickens to grow the fastest, and produce the maximum amount of eggs during their peak laying cycles. If you believe you are allergic to eggs, it could be that you are in fact allergic to soy protein that researchers have now found to be present in egg yolks.

    Almost all commercial eggs, including those that are organic or marketed as “Omega 3” eggs, are from chickens fed high concentrations of soy.

    So if eggs are a part of your diet today, so is soy protein, whether you realize it or not. Tropical Traditions wanted to offer a soy-free egg from chickens that eat NO SOY. Tropical Traditions soy-free eggs have been tested to be soy-free!
    Professor M. Monica Giusti of The Ohio State University has done research on soy isoflavones appearing in commercial egg yolks. In 2009 one of her graduate students conducted some research on soy protein in egg yolks for a thesis, and Tropical Traditions supplied some of their soy-free poultry feed for the study. Their research found:

    “Egg yolks of hens provided with the soy free diet, showed a rapid decrease of isoflavone concentration. From an initial isoflavone content of 52µg ± 0.73/100g it quickly diminished until at day 7, the concentration reached individual aglycone undetectable levels.”
    The chickens that were fed the soy-free feed were laying hens, and had been raised on a traditional soy-based chicken feed. Their results showed that laying hens that were fed the soy-free feed, even when raised on soy-based diet, quickly lose soy protein in egg yolks once they start eating the soy-free ration. After 7 days there were “undetectable levels” of soy protein in the egg yolks.

    In recent years, it was found that the organic corn being purchased from local feed mills still had high amounts of GMOs and glyphosate present, so corn was also eliminated from the ration.

    The regulations that these two small farming operations are being asked to meet were designed for industrial egg operations that have tens of thousands of birds. In this case, one of the farmers has 200 hens and the other has 600 hens. When they started producing these eggs and shipping them to consumers back in 2010, they were told they were compliant with all regulations to sell eggs direct to the consumer.

    New Wisconsin state licensing came about in 2014 when requirements were established that any layer operation with more than 150 hens had to be licensed. Wisconsin now requires farmers who have more than 150 hens to meet state license requirements, which cover hundreds of criteria that only make sense to huge egg operations. [1,2]

    Currently, the farmer with 200 laying hens is planning to get out of the egg business if he must meet the state licensing requirements. It does not make business sense for him to build an egg processing room and reconstruct his icehouse, in order to sell a small amount of eggs. Even if he did invest in these changes, he would still have to meet the refrigerated shipping requirement, which remains the major obstacle.

    The other farmer with 600 hens was initially willing to obtain a state license, but is now also wondering if this still makes business sense for him. But even if he obtained a state handling license, the cost of shipping eggs refrigerated would put the cost of the eggs out of reach for most consumers.

    What is the Future of Small-scale Family Farming in the U.S.?

    It is a sad day when the nutritional needs of people are sacrificed by a system of regulation that works against the existence of small businesses who are trying to provide high quality food. It seems as soon as small business owners start exercising independent creativity and ingenuity to produce products that help people become healthier and to stay healthy, there will be an effort to close them down.

    These farmers in Wisconsin producing perhaps 50 dozen eggs per day during the sunny months of the year are hardly a threat to anyone. Yet, their egg business is being destroyed for the sake of uniformity and standardization, which only benefits Big Ag.

    It seems that every time agriculture regulations are rewritten, they become more and more restrictive and burdensome for small farm businesses. So, congratulations to the State of Wisconsin for setting in motion a plan, which is about to destroy small farm enterprises.

    There really is no reason that Wisconsin regulators could not have made an exemption for these farmers, since the number of hens involved here (200 and 600) is not significantly higher than the 150 hens, which is the cut off point for unlicensed egg producers. The size of their egg production is still in keeping with the concept of a small family farm business. These are the same size farms that once dominated the rural landscape throughout America. These farmers do not have dozens of employees and do not produce hundreds of thousands of eggs per day.

    But with this Cease and Desist letter, delivered without any prior warning or opportunity to allow the farmers to become compliant before killing their operation, the farmers now face huge economic loss with flocks of chickens that need to be fed expensive chicken feed every day, and no opportunity to sell the eggs while they try to respond to the state’s demands. Their families are suffering from the economic impact of this sudden decision.

    Due to the small size of this operation, funding is simply not available to challenge the state in court.

    Full story at Health Impact News
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Eggs don't contain soy proteins. They do contain chicken proteins.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-26-2017 at 04:41 PM.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Eggs don't contain soy proteins. They do contain chicken proteins.
    Study at Ohio State University proved the soy proteins passed into the egg yolks and chicken tissue. But of course truth doesn't matter to you, I know.
    Last edited by Created4; 03-26-2017 at 06:16 PM.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    Study at Ohio State University proved the soy proteins passed into the egg yolks and chicken tissue. But of course truth doesn't matter to you, I know.
    Ten micrograms per gram is practically non- existent (ten out of one million parts). It is insignificant.

    resulted on egg yolks containing 1000µg isoflavones/100g
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-26-2017 at 09:26 PM.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Eggs don't contain soy proteins.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ten micrograms per gram is practically non- existent
    Yes, you were wrong - again.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Eggs don't contain soy proteins. They do contain chicken proteins.


    In 2009, grad student Dante Miguel Marcial Vargas Galdos at Ohio State University completed a master’s thesis entitled “Quantification of Soy Isoflavones in Commercial Eggs and their Transfer from Poultry Feed into Eggs and Tissue.”4 Forty-eight laying hens were fed three types of chicken feed: a soy-free feed, a regular feed containing 25 percent soybean meal or a special feed that packed 500 mg soy isoflavones per 100 grams.

    Vargas Galdos succeeded in his goal of proving the transfer and accumulation of isoflavones from chicken feed into hen eggs and tissues. Chickens fed the special chow with the extra 500 mg isoflavones per 100 grams laid eggs with yolks containing 1000 μg isoflavones per 100 grams. Chicken livers, kidneys, hearts and muscles contained 7162 μg per 100g, 3355 μg per 100g, 272 μg per 100g and 97 μg per 100g, respectively. He found no soy isoflavones in the eggs laid by hens fed soy-free Cocofeed obtained from Tropical Traditions. Although these chickens had grown up on the regular 25 percent soy protein feed, no trace of soy isoflavones remained in their eggs ten days after switching to the soyfree alternative.

    Vargas Galdos’s research also included measuring the isoflavone content, including equol, of eighteen brands of eggs currently on the market. Not surprisingly, all brands of commercial or organic eggs, whether free range or caged, contained soy isoflavones, with the total isoflavone content per egg ranging from 33μg to 139μg per 100g of egg yolk. These samples were all from hens fed a soy-based feed as is typical of eggs now sold both in supermarkets and health food stores.

    Although variations occurred from egg to egg, there was no significant difference in isoflavone content among the different brands with the exception of those eggs high in omega-3 fatty acids. A premium brand that claimed an omega-3 concentration of 600 mg per egg showed a significantly lower isoflavone content, presumably because flax seed or fish rations replaced some—though not all—of the regular soy feed.

    The takeaway? In the words of Vargas Galdos, “The results showed that diet can be altered to modulate isoflavone content in hen eggs and tissues.”

    “Modulate” indeed! In plain English, these researchers hope to push more soy on an unsuspecting public. For our own good, of course! The idea is farmers should feed their poultry and other animals more soy — particularly isoflavone-enriched soy. That way all of us foolish people who don’t choose a soy milk shake or “Tofu Scramble” for a healthy breakfast can experience the miraculous health benefits of soy from eating scrambled eggs. We can thus eat soy that does not look like soy, taste like soy or is required to be labeled as soy. Labels on such “designer eggs” will not be required to name soy, any more than current cartons do.

    This represents a clear and present danger for individuals with soy allergies, and for anyone who wants to avoid over-estrogenization (such as growing boys and women prone to breast cancer). And a Food Rights/Freedom of Information issue for the rest of us.
    https://www.westonaprice.org/health-...-animal-feeds/
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Eggs don't contain soy proteins. They do contain chicken proteins.
    You make a declarative statement that is impossible to misinterpret.

    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    Study at Ohio State University proved the soy proteins passed into the egg yolks and chicken tissue. But of course truth doesn't matter to you, I know.
    You are demonstrated to be in error.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ten micrograms per gram is practically non- existent (ten out of one million parts). It is insignificant.
    You then backpedal with an old trick - "oh it's so small, it it meaningless".

    You were wrong.

    Admit it.

    Go on with life.

    It will make you feel better.

    Just say it: "I was wrong."

    Trust me, you will become a better human being for it.

    When I $#@! up like this, I own it, whether by admitting I was wrong or by admitting I formulated my sentences with insufficient care.

    Choose good over evil. I am confident that you can do it. I believe in you.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  9. #8
    My statement stands. An isoflavone is not a protein. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/isoflavone

    isoflavone

    a phytoestrogen produced chiefly by plants of the legume family, especially soybeans, potentially useful in lowering cholesterol and in treating some cancers and menopausal symptoms.
    one of a class of phytoestrogens, found in soya beans and marketed as a health supplement

    And yes, the amounts are insignificant. From Donnay's post:

    with the total isoflavone content per egg ranging from 33μg to 139μg per 100g of egg yolk.
    33 micrograms per 100 grams is 0.33 parts per million. 139 micrograms per 100 grams is 1.39 parts per million. Egg yolk averages 16 grams so that means from two to nine micrograms per egg. A microgram is one millionth of a gram.


    http://www.lifescript.com/health/cen...oflavones.aspx

    Isoflavones

    Isoflavones are water-soluble chemicals found in many plants. In this article, we will discuss a group of isoflavones that are phytoestrogens, meaning that they cause effects in the body somewhat similar to those of estrogen. The most investigated phytoestrogen isoflavones, genistein and daidzein, are found both in soy products and the herb red clover . Soy additionally contains glycitein, an isoflavone that is more estrogenic than genistein and daidzein, but is usually present in relatively low amounts. Red clover also contains two other isoflavones: biochanin (which can be turned into genistein) and formonenetin (which can be turned into daidzein).

    Certain cells in the body have estrogen receptors , special sites that allow estrogen to attach. When estrogen attaches to a cell’s estrogen receptor, estrogenic effects occur in the cell. Isoflavones latch onto estrogen receptors too, but produce weaker estrogenic effects. This leads to an interesting two-part action. When there is not enough estrogen in the body, isoflavones can stimulate cells with estrogen receptors and partly make up for the deficit. However, when there is plenty of estrogen, isoflavones may tend to block real estrogen from attaching to estrogen receptors, thereby reducing the net estrogenic effect. This may reduce some of the risks of excess estrogen (for example, breast and uterine cancer) while still providing some of estrogen's benefits (such as, preventing osteoporosis).
    (including shipping the eggs in the OP are said to cost over $8 a dozen)
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-27-2017 at 05:22 PM.



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Choose good over evil. I am confident that you can do it. I believe in you.
    Your faith, however sincere, is misguided. Is this the definition of a "cult"?
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    Your faith, however sincere, is misguided. Is this the definition of a "cult"?
    I guess my sarcasm vaporized prior to hitting paper, so to speak.

    I suck at subtlety because I'm so subtle, nobody knows what in hell I am really saying, including myself most of the time.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  13. #11
    I need no egg police . Thanks anyway .
    Do something Danke

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    My statement stands. An isoflavone is not a protein.
    I mistakenly trusted the cite of the study as being that which was alleged. Having now read the report in summary fashion, I agree that the cite did not accurately describe the nature of the study, at least so far as I have been able to cursorily determine.

    See how easy it is to own up to one's errors? It makes you a better human being. It bespeaks honor and honesty, not to mention a stout ego vis-ŕ-vis a huge puffed up cruller. The very man who has given you the lesson has augmented it with a real-life example in practice of that which he preaches. Learn from it and make good your wicked self before your fellows.

    That all said, your assertion that soy proteins do not make their way into the eggs of birds fed on soy products has yet to be demonstrated. Not saying you are wrong, but only that you have provided no evidence to suggest that you are correct.

    My birds are grain- and grass-fed. Our eggs are fabulous, BTW.

    As for cults, here is one. Enjoy:

    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    And yes, the amounts are insignificant.
    Insignificant to whom? Who gets to determine how much poison is "safe"?

    A complaint from a customer on Facebook who purchased these eggs and can no longer get them:

    What the heck?! I've specifically purchased these eggs in the past because I have an anaphylactic soy allergy. They've always arrived at my home just fine and kept just fine and were spectacularly tasty!
    How much of an allergen is needed to cause an anaphylactic shock and potentially kill someone?
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    Insignificant to whom? Who gets to determine how much poison is "safe"?

    A complaint from a customer on Facebook who purchased these eggs and can no longer get them:



    How much of an allergen is needed to cause an anaphylactic shock and potentially kill someone?
    More fear mongering. Reactions to soy are usually due to the proteins. There are no soy proteins in eggs. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ci...eticfood01.htm

    SOY'S ALLERGENIC PROTEINS

    Scientists are not completely certain which components of soy cause allergic reactions. They have found at least 16 allergenic proteins, and some researchers pinpoint as many as 25 to 30. Laboratories report immune system responses to multiple fractions of the soy protein, with no particular fraction being the most consistently antigenic, i.e., capable of causing the production of an antibody.33–36

    Some of the most allergenic fractions appear to be the Kunitz and Bowman–Birk trypsin inhibitors. Food processors have tried in vain to deactivate these troublesome proteins completely without irreparably damaging the remainder of the soy protein (see chapter 12). Having failed to accomplish this, the soy industry has decided to promote these "antinutrients" as cancer preventers.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    More fear mongering. Reactions to soy are usually due to the proteins. There are no soy proteins in eggs.
    Tell that to those who go into shock when eating eggs from chickens fed soy, but do not with eggs from chickens who do not eat soy. They don't need to wait for scientists or Zippyjuan to find out why. And you cannot prove your statement that there are no soy proteins in eggs. Evidence from isoflavones prove otherwise.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    Tell that to those who go into shock when eating eggs from chickens fed soy, but do not with eggs from chickens who do not eat soy. They don't need to wait for scientists or Zippyjuan to find out why. And you cannot prove your statement that there are no soy proteins in eggs. Evidence from isoflavones prove otherwise.
    Isoflavones are not proteins. How many people have gone into shock from eating eggs?

    And you cannot prove your statement that there are no soy proteins in eggs.
    I cannot prove a negative but if there are soy proteins in eggs you should be able to prove that. Find a study showing that.

    Soy free eggs have not been banned even if you do still want some. https://www.localharvest.org/gmo-and...en-eggs-C31057

    $24 a dozen but free shipping!
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-29-2017 at 07:26 PM.



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    More fear mongering. Reactions to soy are usually due to the proteins. There are no soy proteins in eggs. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ci...eticfood01.htm
    You are changing the subject as usual. A consumer has every right to not eat soy eggs, no matter your opinion. The issue here is the government saying that eggs have to be transported with refrigeration. That's none of their business.
    ...

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    You are changing the subject as usual. A consumer has every right to not eat soy eggs, no matter your opinion. The issue here is the government saying that eggs have to be transported with refrigeration. That's none of their business.
    Zip team are statists, and probably paid trolls. In their world, it is OK for people to die from vaccines or food allergies, as it is all part of the "Greater good" for society and a reason for government to control every aspect of our lives.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    Zip team are statists, and probably paid trolls. In their world, it is OK for people to die from vaccines or food allergies, as it is all part of the "Greater good" for society and a reason for government to control every aspect of our lives.
    WHere in your world it's ok to lie to people about the dangers of diseases and parasites because those things are all-natural. As is soy, actually.

    Having said that all the chicken people I know keep fresh eggs on the counter not in the refrigerator. And in any event, posting yet another example of government fixing a problem that doesn't exist won't solve anything. At this point, it's just whining.

  23. #20

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    Zip team are statists, and probably paid trolls. In their world, it is OK for people to die from vaccines or food allergies, as it is all part of the "Greater good" for society and a reason for government to control every aspect of our lives.
    I have already shown, using sources you provided, that dying from a vaccine is one of the least likely ways to die in the United States. Very few actually die from food allergies as well. There is not a ban on "soy free eggs" as claimed either. Fear mongering.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-30-2017 at 06:24 PM.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I have already shown, using sources you provided, that dying from a vaccine is one of the least likely ways to die in the United States. Very few actually die from food allergies as well. There is not a ban on "soy free eggs" as claimed either. Fear mongering.
    You have shown nothing, because you have nothing.

    To support my premise, which is that some people die from vaccines (or food allergies) which is routinely censored and squashed in the mainstream media (and probably also why you are employed to troll here) I simply need to prove this is true. And it is true. This fact is not even in dispute.

    Your belief that those numbers are "insignificant" is just that: a belief. You have provided no proof to back up your statements of belief. You have to (try) rely on emotional language like "fear mongering." You follow the mainstream media game plan exactly.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    You have shown nothing, because you have nothing.

    To support my premise, which is that some people die from vaccines (or food allergies) which is routinely censored and squashed in the mainstream media (and probably also why you are employed to troll here) I simply need to prove this is true. And it is true. This fact is not even in dispute.

    Your belief that those numbers are "insignificant" is just that: a belief. You have provided no proof to back up your statements of belief.
    If they are significant, prove it. If you can. What is "significant exposure" in this case to isoflavones? Are three to nine micrograms a "significant exposure"? You claimed people have died from eating "soy contaminated eggs". How many?

    How much of an allergen is needed to cause an anaphylactic shock and potentially kill someone?
    Since you suggest it occurs, you must have an answer to your own question. Perhaps you could share that with us.

    Maybe if we just look at anaphylactic shock deaths a year and ignore those caused by eggs. Is this a common thing?

    https://www.aaaai.org/global/latest-...th-anaphylaxis

    The authors found that case fatality rates were between 0.25% and 0.33% among hospitalizations or ED presentations with anaphylaxis as the principal diagnosis. These rates represent a total of between 63 and 99 deaths per year in the US, ~77% of which occurred in hospitalized patients.
    These results suggest that the overwhelming majority of hospitalizations or ED presentations for anaphylaxis did not result in death, with an average case fatality rate of 0.3%.
    Eat "soy eggs- Die!"
    Get vaccinated. Die!
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-30-2017 at 02:17 PM.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    If they are significant, prove it. If you can. What is "significant exposure" in this case to isoflavones? Are three to nine micrograms a "significant exposure"? You claimed people have died from eating "soy contaminated eggs". How many?
    I have addressed your circular reasoning in the past. You are the one making the claim for "significant" - not me. Burden of proof on you. You are arguing with yourself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    How much of an allergen is needed to cause an anaphylactic shock and potentially kill someone?
    Since you suggest it occurs, you must have an answer to your own question. Perhaps you could share that with us.
    Public/common knowledge. Look it up if you don't know.

    Severe cases are usually caused by ingesting the allergen, but some people experience a severe reaction upon contact.
    Six vaccines (MMR, varicella, influenza, hepatitis B, tetanus, meningococcal) are recognized as a cause for anaphylaxis, and HPV may cause anaphylaxis as well.
    Wikipedia with linked sources.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    I have addressed your circular reasoning in the past. You are the one making the claim for "significant" - not me. Burden of proof on you. You are arguing with yourself.




    Public/common knowledge. Look it up if you don't know.





    Wikipedia with linked sources.
    Wiki?
    Six vaccines (MMR, varicella, influenza, hepatitis B, tetanus, meningococcal) are recognized as a cause for anaphylaxis, and HPV may cause anaphylaxis as well
    .

    How many cases of anaphylaxis have been caused by those vaccines? Why don't you share numbers on anything? Because they don't support the claims? Oh yeah- they are "hidden". Thanks anyways.

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/580017

    Rate of Anaphylaxis After HPV Vaccine Higher Than Other Vaccines, Australians Report
    Scary headline, right? But what are the facts? Two in a billion is twice as often as one in a billion. But is either number "common"? How many cases were reported? Let's read the article and see.

    Australian researchers report that the rate of anaphylaxis after administration of the human papilloma virus (HPV) vaccine Gardasil (Merck), appears to be significantly higher than that reported for other vaccines administered in similar school-based programs. However, the overall rates were very low, and each of the 8 confirmed cases recovered completely with no serious sequelae.

    "Anaphylaxis following HPV vaccination is a rare event, as defined by the World Health Organization, and it should not curtail population-based HPV vaccination programs," the researchers conclude. The team, headed by Julia Brotherton, MD, from the National Centre for Immunisation Research and Surveillance of Vaccine Preventable Diseases, in Westmead, Australia, detail their findings online September 1 in the Canadian Medical Association Journal (CMAJ).
    Wow! Eight cases! Panic!

    Related commentaries also emphasize the rarity of the reactions and offer reassurance on the safety of the vaccine.

    Data from this Australian study "provide compelling evidence that the vaccine is remarkably safe," say CMAJ editor-in-chief Paul Herbert, MD, and colleagues in a related editorial. They point out that the only serious adverse events noted with careful follow-up of over 260,000 vaccine doses were very rare cases of anaphylaxis (2.6 events per 100,000 doses). "There were no cases of anaphylactic shock. All of the girls recovered completely, usually rapidly after receiving epinephrine/adrenaline," they add.
    Get vaccinated- die from anaphylactic shock!

    That rate was higher than other vaccines. So how many of them?

    In contrast, a 2003 school-based program for meningococcal C vaccination had identified only 1 case of anaphylaxis (giving a rate of 0.1 per 100,000 doses administered). However, if a review similar to the current one had been conducted, another 2 cases would have been identified, the researchers comment. When all 3 cases are included, the estimated rate becomes 0.4 cases per 100,000 doses administered.
    Well, eight is more than one (or three). But both are extremely rare outcomes (four in a million according to the article). Not common as you poorly try to suggest.

    That was Australia. What about the United States? Same article- second page.

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/580017#vp_2

    Reported Rate Is Lower in United States

    The rate in this Australian study is much higher than has been reported in the United States. In his commentary, Dr. Halsey notes that the US Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System received 15 reports of anaphylaxis or anaphylactoid reactions following HPV vaccination during 2007, and 11 cases have been reported as of July 21 this year. He also notes that more than 13 million doses of the vaccine have been distributed as of the end of 2007.

    "Although there may have been some underreporting, the rate of about 1 case per 1 million vaccinations is consistent with the rate of anaphylaxis following several other vaccines," he comments.
    Only one in a million? Gee- I thought it was supposed to be some common thing.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-30-2017 at 06:27 PM.

  30. #26
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1995783/

    Anaphylaxis as an adverse event following immunisation
    Incidence

    Anaphylaxis following immunisation is a rare event. Even the largest pre‐licensure vaccine trials are unlikely to detect a single case, let alone provide an estimate of incidence. The onus for detection of anaphylaxis falls to national post‐marketing surveillance systems. The “yellow card” reporting system of the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency in the UK (www.mhra.gov.uk) received 130 reports of anaphylaxis associated with immunisation in the six years from 1997 to 2003, suggesting a rate of 1 per million doses.5 Likewise, the US Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (http://vaers.hhs.gov) recorded 452 reports of “anaphylactoid reactions” in over 1.9 billion doses of vaccine administered countrywide over a 10‐year period.6 This yields an estimated incidence of 0.2 cases per million doses. All post‐marketing surveillance systems rely on passive reporting of cases and are prone to under‐reporting. Also these incidences are of overall rates of reaction and do not reflect incidences following individual vaccines.

    There are a limited number of studies specifically addressing the incidence of anaphylaxis as an AEFI. Patja et al describe 30 cases of anaphylaxis occurring after MMR vaccination over a 14‐year period, deriving an incidence estimate of 1 per 100 000.7 In a retrospective analysis of hospital discharge records, Bohlke et al identified five cases of anaphylaxis in 7.5 million doses of vaccine, giving an incidence rate of 0.65 cases per million doses.8 Yet in two of these five “cases”, uncertainties remained about the true nature of these events. The retrospective design of this study made it impossible to clarify these further. As with most advanced immunisation programmes, children received combination vaccines with multiple immunisations at a single clinic visit, making it impossible to attribute risk to a single vaccine or component. These studies exemplify the difficulty of describing anaphylaxis as an AEFI in any detail using retrospective analyses.
    Eating a banana is more dangerous.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-31-2017 at 12:00 AM.



Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 44
    Last Post: 11-04-2014, 01:26 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-30-2013, 09:25 AM
  3. Regulators, Firms Take Aim At Payday-Lending Market
    By bobbyw24 in forum Economy & Markets
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-13-2009, 05:14 AM
  4. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-20-2008, 02:16 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •