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Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members
You mean these quotes?
Originally Posted by TheCount
Are you proposing that the United States is executing a campaign of airstrikes that is entirely without human cost?
dannno
Civilians? I would imagine so, yes.
Originally Posted by TheCount
you believe that they are conducting airstrikes in urban areas in Syria and these airstrikes never kill any civilians?
dannno
I would imagine so, yes.
There is no spoon.
My suggested headline for this article - "Trump isn't able to kill kids fast enough. Needs Saudi Arabia's help."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN17M2ZK
The United States wants new commitments from Saudi Arabia to improve its targeting procedures to minimize civilian casualties in its part in the Yemen civil war as it weighs resuming sales of precision-guided munitions to Riyadh, U.S. officials told Reuters.
An announcement of the weapons sale had been anticipated last month, but objections by mostly Democratic lawmakers and human rights groups have complicated the matter, the U.S. officials and others close to the issue said.
"We want the Saudis to show that they are committed to use these things properly," said one U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
At issue is the sale of about $390 million worth of guidance systems made by Raytheon Co that convert "dumb" gravity bombs into precision-guided munitions that are supposed to more accurately hit targets.
Nearly 4,800 civilians have been killed in Yemen since the latest round of conflict began in March 2015, most of them by the Saudi-led coalition seeking to restore ousted President Abd-Rabbu Mansour Hadi, the United Nations human rights office said in March.
The conflict pits Iran-allied Houthi rebels against the government backed by the Saudi-led Arab coalition.
A representative of the Saudi Embassy in Washington declined comment on discussions with Washington over the precision-guided weapons.
The Saudi government has called allegations of civilian casualties fabricated or exaggerated, and has said the coalition follows rigorous rules of engagement.
A group of U.S. senators introduced legislation on April 13 to set new conditions for U.S. military support for Riyadh.
"The Saudis are important partners in the Middle East, but they have continued to disregard our advice when it comes to target selection and civilian protection," Democratic Senator Chris Murphy said in a statement.
The U.S. officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of diplomacy with Saudi Arabia, declined to specify what additional safeguards they were seeking to avoid civilian deaths and injury.
The first official said the commitments could come in the form of a letter from Saudi Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir.
"This is an unconditional sale. There are no conditions attached. The decision has been made to let the sale go through," a second U.S. official said.
The official said the United States was in "regular dialogue" with Saudi Arabia on the issue of civilian casualties "and specific steps on how to do this."
In the past, Washington has pressed Riyadh to take more care in targeting; abide by "no strike" lists of off-limits areas; and promptly investigate reports of civilian casualties.
U.S. President Donald Trump's predecessor Barack Obama suspended the arms sale in December after an estimated 140 people were killed when planes struck mourners at a funeral in the Yemen capital, Sanaa, in October 2016. The Saudi-led coalition received incorrect information from Yemeni military figures that armed Houthi leaders were in the area, a coalition probe found.
Asked about the new commitments being sought from Riyadh, the State Department did not respond directly.
"The Saudi-led coalition is supporting the legitimate Yemeni government and defending itself from Houthi incursion into Saudi territory," a State Department official said.
The official said that the Saudi government "is taking measures to improve its targeting processes" and adopting measures for recording reports of civilian casualties.
A White House spokesman declined comment.
(Additional reporting by Yara Bayoumy, Phil Stewart and Patricia Zengerle; editing by Grant McCool)
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
I'm sure the Saudis will use these weapons for self-defense only.
Trump/Saudi Collusion: Laying Plans For More War In The Middle East
Last edited by CPUd; 04-21-2017 at 11:12 AM.
“I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul
Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members
If it's THIS quote-
Then I answered it:@TheCount
25 minutes from 'no civilian casualties' to 'only a few children.'
Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
Clearly, I was saying "Civilians? I imagine so, yes" I was imagining that yes, there were likely civilian casualties, but I don't trust the sources that are providing the information so I don't know to what extent that is true if at all. It was a conversational tone and didn't translate well to text but I thought it was pretty clear that is what was meant.
Ender:
Truth about not translating to text well-
When @TheCount said: you believe that they are conducting airstrikes in urban areas in Syria and these airstrikes never kill any civilians? And you answered: I would imagine so, yes. it looks like you are agreeing that the airstrikes killed no civilians.
That was also my understanding from your posts about no big deal targeting the airfield.
Welcome to the Internet.
There is no spoon.
Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members
It's a great big cosmic joke.
Ya, I recall thinking about how TheCount was essentially asking me if any civilians died, but formed in the question in a way where the answer "no" is actually "yes". Could be subconscious, but to me that is a manipulative way to ask a question on a forum so I decided to answer in a way that would make it clear what I meant, but I should have been more clear by adding "Yes, some civilians may have died" or something along those lines.
As far as targeting an empty airfield, yes you got that right, that's what was targeted. There were reported civilian casualties, which if true is unfortunate.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
I have my doubts about these accidental casualties sometimes. These so call smart missiles that are designed to reduce casualties on actual mission critical strikes hit some civilians on accident because this missed? How are these smart missiles missing a non moving target?
Can't we hit non moving targets with dumb rockets? We won't find out what's really going on until FOIA gets released if we are still a country then. There was A FOIA today that said the FBI uses the 702 program to "google" people, and when a lawyer asked them why they don't justify the reason they are searching an Americans records like the CIA and NSA do they say they don't do it because if they had to justify using it every time they used it they wouldn't use it as much.
...helmuth, how do i live unicarcerated, not under a bridge, not in a refrigerator box, etc., without using the federal reserve notes, tokens, etc.?...
[...i get a hoot out of some goldbugs who plead 'your dollars are/will soon be worthless...you need gold'...as they proceed to convince me to give them my dollars in exchange for their gold...republicrats are a hoot...]
Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 04-22-2017 at 11:45 AM.
You use a Midas Liquid Gold Card.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...of-Sound-Money
This is a card which you can use anywhere, to pay for anything, backed 100% by gold.
Believe me, I know what you mean. I am not one of those.[...i get a hoot out of some goldbugs who plead 'your dollars are/will soon be worthless...you need gold'...as they proceed to convince me to give them my dollars in exchange for their gold...republicrats are a hoot...]
That might have been some bad reporting/mis-communication, Trump just spoke against violence against civilians in no ambiguous terms:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1OKH8c5ZsM
MAGA Allies: 'Bully Israel with undeclared nukes steals land'
Dangerous conspiracy theories on Right claim MAGA fake frontgroup
Poll: Should US apologize for financing radicalization of Afghan children in 80s?
Obama-Clinton Years: A Violent Chapter in World History
Trump: If (Neocon) Adelson Backs Rubio "He'll Have Total Control" Over Him
Delta variant, death of 9 Chinese engineers in terror attack led to airport chaos & quick Kabul fall?
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
Whatever happened to MOAB news? There was just one drop months ago in Afghan freedom land and since then there has been no news of any more drops.
To be devil's advocate, is it possible he is not going along some extremist decisions with his own volution and was under duress?
"The Screws Turn on Trump after alleged chemical attack in Douma"
Last edited by enhanced_deficit; 04-20-2018 at 11:24 PM.
MAGA Allies: 'Bully Israel with undeclared nukes steals land'
Dangerous conspiracy theories on Right claim MAGA fake frontgroup
Poll: Should US apologize for financing radicalization of Afghan children in 80s?
Obama-Clinton Years: A Violent Chapter in World History
Trump: If (Neocon) Adelson Backs Rubio "He'll Have Total Control" Over Him
Delta variant, death of 9 Chinese engineers in terror attack led to airport chaos & quick Kabul fall?
How'd I miss this nauseating little bit of virtue signaling over people nobody here really cares if lives or dies other than to the extent they can be politically leveraged?
For those paying attention to the nuclear stand-down in North Korea, Trump may well already be the peace president.
But those people over there don't count because they can't be used by frothing mouth breathers to pretend they are better than he.
MAGA Allies: 'Bully Israel with undeclared nukes steals land'
Dangerous conspiracy theories on Right claim MAGA fake frontgroup
Poll: Should US apologize for financing radicalization of Afghan children in 80s?
Obama-Clinton Years: A Violent Chapter in World History
Trump: If (Neocon) Adelson Backs Rubio "He'll Have Total Control" Over Him
Delta variant, death of 9 Chinese engineers in terror attack led to airport chaos & quick Kabul fall?
Is stable genius himself running the ongoing mideast 'peace process' or his anti-nepotism championing son-in-law (who was called 'a ***ing idiot' by Billl Maher recently) is in charge?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRqQegRB_ZU
Last edited by enhanced_deficit; 05-14-2018 at 11:36 PM.
MAGA Allies: 'Bully Israel with undeclared nukes steals land'
Dangerous conspiracy theories on Right claim MAGA fake frontgroup
Poll: Should US apologize for financing radicalization of Afghan children in 80s?
Obama-Clinton Years: A Violent Chapter in World History
Trump: If (Neocon) Adelson Backs Rubio "He'll Have Total Control" Over Him
Delta variant, death of 9 Chinese engineers in terror attack led to airport chaos & quick Kabul fall?
Protection of civilian populations of local reaces is not necccesarily always responsibility of occupying freedom force under UN Geneva conventions but violelnce of longest war post MOAB droppings continues despite US media blackout.
Air Force Deletes Yanny vs. Laurel Tweet About Afghan Air Strike
Inverse-19 hours ago
Dozen Afghan Security Personnel Killed In Taliban Attacks
May 18, 2018
UK may double troops in Afghanistan after Donald Trump request
US asks for reinforcements after Taliban resurgence
Ewen MacAskill Defence correspondent
18 May 2018 06.50 EDT
The UK government is considering doubling the number of troops deployed in Afghanistan in response to a request from Donald Trump for reinforcements in the face of increasing gains by the Taliban.
Britain has about 600 troops in Afghanistan at present, mainly based in Kabul training officers and not engaged in combat. There is also a small contingent of special forces.
The new deployment could see hundreds more return to Afghanistan. The UK withdrew almost all of its combat troops from the country in 2014.
Faced with a Taliban resurgence, the US, which has about 15,000 troops in the country supporting the Afghan military, asked the UK and other Nato countries last summer to send reinforcements. Britain responded with an extra 85.
Britain cannot send its young to Afghanistan simply because Trump demands it | Owen Jones
Later in the year, Trump renewed the plea and the proposed new UK deployment is in response to that request by the US president. The hundreds more British troops are expected to be involved in training rather than combat.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-trump-request
Air Force apologizes for tweet citing A-10s, deadly Afghan offensive, Yanny v. Laurel debate
- By Elizabeth McLaughlin
May 17, 2018
The Air Force apologized Thursday for a tweet from its official account that appeared to make light of a deadly U.S. military operation in Afghanistan by referencing the viral pop culture debate "Yanny v. Laurel."
Early Thursday morning, the Air Force tweeted, "The Taliban Forces in #Farah city #Afghanistan would much rather have heard #Yanny or #Laurel than the deafening #BRRRT they got courtesy of our #A10."
The "deafening #BRRT" mentioned in the tweet was an apparent reference to the sound an air cannon aboard the A-10 makes when it strafes ground forces.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/air-force-...ry?id=55239781
At least 11 killed in back-to-back bomb attacks at Afghan cricket match
8:35am May 20, 2018
At least 11 people have been killed when three back-to-back explosions struck a cricket stadium in eastern Afghanistan.
WARNING: This story contains graphic content
The detonations occurred in the country's Nangarhar province, where hundreds had gathered for a night time tournament during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.
Several bombs detonated at a cricket match in Afghanistan have killed eight people, including one child. Picture: AAPAttahullah Khogyani, spokesman for the provincial governor, said about 45 others were wounded at the sports stadium late Friday night in the provincial capital Jalalabad.
The event's organiser, Hidayatullah Zaheer, and a number of other local officials were among the dead.
https://www.9news.com.au/world/2018/...ttack-8-killed
MAGA Allies: 'Bully Israel with undeclared nukes steals land'
Dangerous conspiracy theories on Right claim MAGA fake frontgroup
Poll: Should US apologize for financing radicalization of Afghan children in 80s?
Obama-Clinton Years: A Violent Chapter in World History
Trump: If (Neocon) Adelson Backs Rubio "He'll Have Total Control" Over Him
Delta variant, death of 9 Chinese engineers in terror attack led to airport chaos & quick Kabul fall?
Israel’s air strikes targeted entire families in Gaza — but U.S. media won’t pursue the story
By James North May 21, 2021
Palestinians mourn over bodies of Salha family who were killed after Israeli air strike in Deir al-Balah in the center of Gaza Strip, on 19 May 2021. Photo by Ashraf Amra. (c) APA Images.
Amira Hass is one of the most impressive and experienced journalists in Israel/Palestine. She writes for the respected daily Haaretz, where on May 19 she made an extraordinary charge — that the Israeli military, as part of its air assault on Gaza, “is wiping out entire Palestinian families on purpose.”
So far, no mainstream U.S. media outlet has followed up on her report. Their failure is journalistic malpractice.
Hass, the daughter of Holocaust survivors, actually lived in Gaza from 1993-97, and afterward published the valuable Drinking the Sea in Gaza (1999). She obviously still has excellent contacts there. This latest report starts by observing that 15 Palestinian families in Gaza lost multiple family members during the Israeli bombardment:Parents and children, babies, grandparents, siblings and nephews and nieces died together when Israel bombed their homes which collapsed over them. Insofar as is known, no advance warning was given so they could evacuate the targeted houses.Hass contrasted this lack of warning with Israel’s policy toward the high-rise towers in Gaza, where the military did phone residents an hour or so in advance, directing them to evacuate. She then reported an almost unbelievable fact: the Israeli army and the Shin Bet intelligence service actually “have current phone numbers for people in each structure slated for destruction.” Under the Oslo Accords, the Gazan authorities are required to give the Palestinian population registry to the Israeli Interior Ministry. In what must be an unprecedented (and sickening) new feature of war, Israel’s army “knows the number and names of children, women and elderly who live in any residential building it bombs for any reason.”
She speculated that the Israeli military targets residences that it alleges have some connection to Hamas, “even if all it had was a telephone, or just hosted a meeting.” She concluded that to the Israel military:. . . once the “importance” of a Hamas member is considered high and its residence is defined as a legitimate target for bombing — the “allowable” collateral damage, in other words the number of uninvolved people killed, including women and children — is very broad.Amira Hass’s article cries out for follow up reporting by U.S. journalists. Now that the ceasefire is in place, The New York Times, for instance, could ask Iyad Abuheweila, its courageous man in Gaza, to visit the ruins of the abu al Ouf family home, where the father, Ayman, an internal medicine doctor, died, along with 12 of his relatives. Hass named all 12 victims, who ranged in age from 9-year-old Mir to Amin, aged 90. (Abuheweila’s own harrowing first-hand account in today’s paper further undermines Israel’s assertion that it aimed only at military targets.) Times reporters in Israel could work their sources inside the military, to seek clarification and justification for knowingly destroying entire families. The paper could also interview professors and legal scholars who study the ethics of warfare, and ask them to opine on “allowable collateral damage.”
https://mondoweiss.net/2021/05/israe...sue-the-story/
Related
20 May, 2021
- Gaza death toll reaches 232, including 65 children, and 1,760 injured due to ongoing Israeli airstrikes; 50,000 families have been displaced, 24 health facilities suffered partial or complete damage, Gaza Ministry of Health reports.
- US Senator Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) is reportedly preparing to introduce a resolution to halt U.S. sale of $735 million in precision-guided weapons to Israel, following a similar resolution from House democrats, led by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.)
In Strike That Killed 5 Children, Israel Said It Took Out Gaza Militant. - The New York Times
Nov. 15, 2019
Last edited by enhanced_deficit; 05-21-2021 at 03:47 PM.
MAGA Allies: 'Bully Israel with undeclared nukes steals land'
Dangerous conspiracy theories on Right claim MAGA fake frontgroup
Poll: Should US apologize for financing radicalization of Afghan children in 80s?
Obama-Clinton Years: A Violent Chapter in World History
Trump: If (Neocon) Adelson Backs Rubio "He'll Have Total Control" Over Him
Delta variant, death of 9 Chinese engineers in terror attack led to airport chaos & quick Kabul fall?
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