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Thread: TrumpCare Vote Today 3:30pm EST

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    This was the most decisive showing of libertarian muscle in the federal government that I remember seeing during my lifetime. Breathtaking.

    I hope it's as much of a game changer as it feels like. What a great day.

    trump will blame Democrats, but Rand deserves all the credit.
    Agreed. Rand was THE most vocal opponent to this... he hit every news and talk show, provided cover for many house members, and rallied the troops. I think this is a great day and a great win. As Rand said, "Now is when the negotiations can begin."

    SMALL GOVERNMENT OR GTFO....

    Obamacare will continue to implode [falls squarely on the democrats], Republicans can now put forth something that would actually pass [like all the small government solutions they campaigned on!], and Rand Paul gets some major big boy seat at the table.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope



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  3. #32



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    Trump just said "We just pulled it" minutes before the House vote!


    Last edited by spudea; 03-24-2017 at 04:37 PM.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    Agreed. Rand was THE most vocal opponent to this... he hit every news and talk show, provided cover for many house members, and rallied the troops. I think this is a great day and a great win. As Rand said, "Now is when the negotiations can begin."

    SMALL GOVERNMENT OR GTFO....

    Obamacare will continue to implode [falls squarely on the democrats], Republicans can now put forth something that would actually pass [like all the small government solutions they campaigned on!], and Rand Paul gets some major big boy seat at the table.
    Meaning dannno and jilundqu have been on the right track throughout this discussion. The establishment thought they could freeze out Rand and other pro-liberty opponents of Obamacare lite and squeeze enough votes to get another nothing-burger into law. I.e., they thought they could simply take back control and do the usual corporate co-opting of campaign issues. Trump has been playing along, but is aware of the routine and the swampsters at work. Bannon et al advisors have war gamed this out to a conclusion that keeps Trump, and not the Ryan regime in the leadership position at the end of the day:

    Health Care Bill’s Failure: Just Part of the ‘Art of the Deal’
    by Jeff Pollak
    24 Mar 2017

    Exactly two weeks ago, this author predicted the defeat of the American Health Care Act — and explained that it was a step towards the final, actual deal that will repeal and replace Obamacare.

    President Donald Trump faces three irreconcilable factions: the GOP establishment, conservatives, and Democrats. He must bring them together — to “deliver the goods,” a key rule in The Art of the Deal. But first he must show them “the downside” — and convince them they will fail on their own.

    The most difficult faction to deal with is the Republican establishment — not because they are politically strong, but because on policy issues like health care, they are convinced that they have all the answers and that Trump just does not understand.

    So he let them make the first move — and he exposed two things about them: first, that they had not come up with a plan that was ready for prime time; second, that they had not done any of the political legwork necessary to sell their plan to voters.

    Trump gave Speaker Paul Ryan and the House Republican leadership enough rope to hang themselves. Instead of dictating terms to him, they will now depend on him to save them, politically. They must accept whatever plan he will put forward.

    But Trump will not make the next move. He will let the conservatives move first. They are the big winners in the first round — much more so than the Democrats, who are enjoying the spectacle of Republican dysfunction but have no role to play yet.

    The conservatives will proceed with their demand for a full repeal of Obamacare. And then they will face the ire of voters who are deeply unhappy with Obamacare but upset about losing the paltry, expensive health insurance they currently have.

    That, too, will strengthen Trump, and convince conservatives they need his leadership.

    Whereupon Trump will turn to the moderate Democrats and offer them a deal — perhaps catastrophic health coverage in exchange for repealing Obamacare.

    Democrats would take that deal because they would see a government-backed catastrophic insurance system as a possible path to the universal health care system of their dreams. Republicans would take that deal — after exhausting all of the other options — because it would leave enough room for the free market to provide insurance for most health issues, and for states to experiment with their own policies. And the more health care stakeholders who can be brought into the process, the better.

    To quote Morpheus, from the Matrix Reloaded: “What happened, happened, and couldn’t have happened any other way.”
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...t-of-the-deal/
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  7. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    Meaning dannno and jilundqu have been on the right track throughout this discussion. The establishment thought they could freeze out Rand and other pro-liberty opponents of Obamacare lite and squeeze enough votes to get another nothing-burger into law. I.e., they thought they could simply take back control and do the usual corporate co-opting of campaign issues. Trump has been playing along, but is aware of the routine and the swampsters at work. Bannon et al advisors have war gamed this out to a conclusion that keeps Trump, and not the Ryan regime in the leadership position at the end of the day:



    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...t-of-the-deal/
    Until we can clean house, I don't think Bannon and Co. can hold out for the long run. Kushner/Cohn must be neutralized, but DJT has a severe soft spot for his Princess. We need to see some scalps and soon. Our guys need to be manipulating Trump as opposed to the New Yorkers.
    Last edited by AuH20; 03-24-2017 at 04:29 PM.

  8. #36
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Grassley is a twit. The dems rammed it through with no republican votes and he wants to give them leverage now?

  10. #38

    https://twitter.com/LibertyCliff/sta...51452503654400
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  11. #39
    Quick story. My friend's mother had skin cancer. Went for years to the same doctor. This was even before she had the cancer. Obamacare came along and she could not go to her same doctor. She fought tooth and nail with the insurance company. Of course she lost. She went back to her own doc. She offered to pay them in cash for a discount. They said yes. She is paying *much much* less for all the tests and procedures. The secretary said the office *hates* and I mean hates to deal with insurance companies. They never know how much reimbursement they will get back. I know other people who offer cash for discounts. If you have a doctor that does it, great. I don't think it ever hurts to offer them cash. Some will negotiate.

  12. #40

    https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/stat...22234869018625
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackson View Post
    Quick story. My friend's mother had skin cancer. Went for years to the same doctor. This was even before she had the cancer. Obamacare came along and she could not go to her same doctor. She fought tooth and nail with the insurance company. Of course she lost. She went back to her own doc. She offered to pay them in cash for a discount. They said yes. She is paying *much much* less for all the tests and procedures. The secretary said the office *hates* and I mean hates to deal with insurance companies. They never know how much reimbursement they will get back. I know other people who offer cash for discounts. If you have a doctor that does it, great. I don't think it ever hurts to offer them cash. Some will negotiate.
    I'm glad it is working out for her.

    It has been my experience where I live that the cash payer gets the ultimate screwing.

    My unfortunate trip to the emergency room cost me 10 times more after Obamacare than a similar visit before.

    I suppose I should be thankful, because I was able to negotiate them down from 20 times the cost of my previous visit.

    I live in a small town with one hospital and no nearby options.

    These people could care less about cash payers.

    This hospital publicly supported Obamacare's passage.

    As far as individual physicians, there are only a couple independent ones left in my town.

    All the rest are members of a hospital-owned group.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    These people could care less about cash payers.
    This hospital publicly supported Obamacare's passage.

    Maybe they are punishing cash customers on purpose?

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    No, the AHCA could possibly be worse, and is very likely at least as bad as what we have now.

    Trump didn't want this turd to pass, he just had to support it so Paul Ryan can get the axe.
    Riight..


  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Riight..

    So is it that you think Trump doesn't want Paul Ryan to get the axe?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    So is it that you think Trump doesn't want Paul Ryan to get the axe?
    It is that I think Trump wants to pass the bill he's spent all his political capital trying to pass.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    It is that I think Trump wants to pass the bill he's spent all his political capital trying to pass.
    No, he just went all in so that he didn't blamed and all the blame could be placed squarely on Paul Ryan. If he didn't give his 100% it would have been blamed on Trump.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    No, he just went all in so that he didn't blamed and all the blame could be placed squarely on Paul Ryan. If he didn't give his 100% it would have been blamed on Trump.
    Ha

    Ha Ha

    Ha Ha Ha

    Ha Ha Ha Ha

    Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha


  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Ha

    Ha Ha

    Ha Ha Ha

    Ha Ha Ha Ha

    Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

    That was a great argument.

    The problem is that you know if Trump had done anything to hurt the chances of the bill passing, it would have been blamed on him, and they couldn't blame it on Paul Ryan.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    That was a great argument.
    Agreed

    The problem is that you know if Trump had done anything to hurt the chances of the bill passing, it would have been blamed on him, and they couldn't blame it on Paul Ryan I will believe anything that orangutan says, anything (!); I'll even make things up to rationalize his actions. Just can't get enough of that orange television character, mm..mm..

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    That was a great argument.

    The problem is that you know if Trump had done anything to hurt the chances of the bill passing, it would have been blamed on him, and they couldn't blame it on Paul Ryan.
    Just trying to understand your delusion... Why is Trump blaming the democrats, then? Is it to further his charade?
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Just trying to understand your delusion... Why is Trump blaming the democrats, then? Is it to further his charade?
    They're taking our precious bodily fluids.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Just trying to understand your delusion... Why is Trump blaming the democrats, then? Is it to further his charade?
    Please try to keep up. It's 4D chess.
    Brawndo's got what plants crave. Its got electrolytes.



    H. L. Mencken said it best:


    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”


    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

  27. #53

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    No, the AHCA could possibly be worse, and is very likely at least as bad as what we have now.

    Trump didn't want this turd to pass, he just had to support it so Paul Ryan can get the axe.
    Hey, you're two for one this time!

    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Don't worry, surely the trumpettes will be along soon enough, to do one or more of the following:
    A) Argue about the meaning of words like "cut", "spending", "military", "entitlement", "increase", and "budget"
    B) Tell us that their authoritarian idol really didn't mean what he said
    C) Tell us that this is a brilliant move in a game of 3-D chess that only trumpettes are capable of understanding
    D) Tell us that it's ok because obomba did it first
    E) Tell us that it's ok because it would have been horrible if clinton had done the very same thing
    F) Tell us that this is what Liberty and Freedom really mean
    G) Call CPUd names
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  29. #55
    Yes, it's brilliant chess, yes, the AHCA debacle positions Trump better over Ryan in the long term, and yes, the same circle of arrogant anti-Trump posters who were wrong about him not being able to get the nomination, or not being able to win the election, will be shown to be wrong about his ability to end Obamacare. This Bannon story indicates Trump's chief advisor is not on board with Ryancare, and perhaps never was:

    Why Steve Bannon Might Be the Winner of the GOP’s Health-Care Civil War
    By Gabriel Sherman

    ...The failure to repeal and replace Obamacare would be a stinging defeat for Trump. But it would be an even bigger defeat for Paul Ryan, who has all but staked his Speakership on passing this bill. And in the hall of mirrors that is Washington, the big winner to emerge out of the health-care debacle could be Steve Bannon. That’s because Bannon has been waging war against Ryan for years. For Bannon, Ryan is the embodiment of the “globalist-corporatist” Republican elite. A failed bill would be Bannon’s best chance yet to topple Ryan and advance his nationalist-populist economic agenda.

    Publicly, Bannon has been working to help the bill pass. But privately he’s talked it down in recent days. According to a source close to the White House, Bannon said that he’s unhappy with the Ryan bill because it “doesn’t drive down costs” and was “written by the insurance industry.” While the bill strips away many of Obamacare’s provisions, it does not go as far as Bannon would wish to “deconstruct the administrative state” in the realm of health care. Furthermore, Bannon has been distancing himself from the bill to insulate himself from political fallout of it failing. He’s told people that Trump economic adviser Gary Cohn — a West Wing rival — has run point on it. (Bannon did not respond to a request for comment.)

    Whether or not the bill passes, Ryan has been weakened, the pro-Breitbart Freedom Caucus has been emboldened. It’s hard to see how the Republican health-care civil war hasn’t been a boon for Bannon.
    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...care-bill.html
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  30. #56
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul



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  32. #57
    This actually puts Trump in a great position. After blaming everything on Ryan, the HFC and cuckschumer, they have seen his tremendous dealmaking skills firsthand, and how he can really pull the room together. They will be so eager to work with him on tax reform, F-35s and trillion dollar bridges.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    This actually puts Trump in a great position. After blaming everything on Ryan, the HFC and cuckschumer, they have seen his tremendous dealmaking skills firsthand, and how he can really pull the room together. They will be so eager to work with him on tax reform, F-35s and trillion dollar bridges.
    I think you are trying too hard.

  34. #59
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    First weekend Trump won't be leaving town since becoming president.

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/pol...323-story.html
    Remember all those Obama golf memes from neocon charlatans?

    Where are they now?
    The enemy of my enemy may be worse than my enemy.

    I do not suffer from Trump Rearrangement Syndrome. Sorry if that triggers you.

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