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Thread: Ohio Parents Disagree with School Over ADHD Diagnosis – Lose 7 Year Old Son to CPS

  1. #1

    Ohio Parents Disagree with School Over ADHD Diagnosis – Lose 7 Year Old Son to CPS

    His parents say that he is just a normal, imaginative little boy; his school says that he needs mental health help. After Christian Maple was called to pick up his 7 year old son Camden from school following an incident, Christian and his wife Katie had a long talk with their son to find out what exactly was going on. As parents, they know their son better than anyone, and they addressed the situation at home. They thought the matter was settled.

    It should have been over.

    But it wasn’t. It got much worse.

    The next morning, staff at Bowman Primary School in Lebanon, Ohio, demanded to know the content of the Maples’ conversation with their son. Christian did not believe that was their business to know the details, and he and Katie chose to reject the primary school’s opinion that they needed to have Camden evaluated and treated by psychologists.

    The school reported the Maples to Child Protective Services. Eight police officers later surrounded the family’s house and took 7 year old Camden away from his home and his family.

    Instead of the state respecting the Maples’ fundamental right to parent their child and make medical decisions for him, CPS has seized custody of Camden and accused his parents of neglecting his mental health. The Maples are still reeling in shock, and are now fighting to get him back home.

    Typical American Boy Next Door

    Camden likes Star Wars and Pokemon. He likes to play football with his brothers, and to play with Legos. He enjoys video games like Mario and Sonic. He creates stories and draws his own comic strips. He has tested a full grade level above his grade level. Katie describes her stepson:

    Camden is very imaginative and creative. He’s a typical kid.
    He grew up as the only child of his father until Christian met Katie, mother of 4. Much like the Brady Bunch, two families blended into one. Camden went overnight from being an only child to having 2 older and 2 younger siblings. Since the arrival of his baby sister, he is now one of 6 children – 3 boys and 3 girls. According to their parents, the children have all adjusted “very well,” but it has still been an adjustment.

    They are a pretty typical family, complete with mini-van, living in a nice house in a nice neighborhood. They try to eat healthy, but not necessarily organic. They vaccinate their children, but prefer to space out the vaccines instead of giving many at once. Katie says:

    There’s really nothing out of the ordinary about us.


    The exception to that might be that they exercise their right to make medical decisions for their children and don’t always do what the school recommends. According to Christian and Katie:

    The school thinks he is ADHD, we as parents disagree. We believe that it stems mostly from boredom and not being challenged in the classroom. The school has tried on several occasions to get us to have him diagnosed, so that he can be medicated.

    We as parents do not have the problems the school claims to have with him, at home. We know how to deal with a rambunctious 7 year old, but the school is content with making him believe that he is a bad child, we disagree.
    He often finishes his school work before most of his classmates, so he doodles to fill the time. His parents report that he has gotten into trouble for that. They say that he gets bored at school, and that they have made suggestions to his teacher about how to handle him, but the school has ignored all of their suggestions.

    They just want him diagnosed and medicated.
    Camden Sent to the Office at School

    One day in late February, Camden got sent to the office for being disruptive in his class. He had to sit down with the school counselor. He told the counselor that he was “upset because he felt that he was bad and wanted to erase himself from the earth.”

    Where many counselors would focus the questioning at that point on trying to learn why he thought he was bad and who told him that he was bad, the counselor at Bowman Primary School reportedly instead asked how he would accomplish erasing himself from the earth. Faced with that kind of question, the little boy who makes up stories for his own comic strips came up with the idea that he would stab himself in the eye with a knife. This response prompted a call to his parents.

    Christian immediately drove to the school and picked up his son. He and Katie had “a long conversation” with him to find out what was going on.

    Camden said that he did not want to hurt himself and just said that because he was upset and wanted to see what the counselor would say. The school thought we should have taken him to the hospital emergency room for a mental health evaluation, but upon assessing the situation and speaking to him at home, it was clear to us that he posed no threat to himself and just said it to get a rise out of the counselor. He has never said anything about harming himself prior to this incident or after. This was one time, one day…most likely repeating something he heard somewhere.
    Both parents told Health Impact News that, if they had thought that he was truly suicidal, they certainly would have taken action:

    If we really believed that he would have really hurt himself, then we would have taken him to be assessed. They’ve blown this way out of proportion.
    There were no other signs of depression or of any intention to hurt himself, or anyone else. This was a one time thing. They want to know if this is really about the school wanting to get the funding for having him diagnosed as a special needs child.

    School Calls CPS When Parents Don’t Do What They Demand

    The school phoned them the next morning to ask if they had taken him to the hospital. When they explained that they had had a long conversation with him and “addressed the situation,” the school demanded to know how they addressed it and what the content of their conversation was. When the parents told them that the details of the conversation was a private family matter, the school officials bristled and called CPS, claiming “neglect.”

    Social workers showed up at the family home to investigate. Christian explained the situation and told them that Camden is fine. He also told them that an investigation would impose on their right to privacy and their “fundamental right of child rearing and medical decision making on behalf of [their] child, all of which have already been written into case law.” He also cited the 4th Amendment right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures, and told them that they would need a warrant before they would be allowed to enter his home or talk to the other children.

    Christian told Health Impact News that he never actually said that they were not providing services for Camden, as the school and social workers accuse, but he simply said it was none of their business.

    Two weeks after all this, on March 3, Christian received a phone call that there was an “Emergency Shelter Care” hearing later that day. At court, the Maples learned for the first time that the school had called CPS on 4 other occasions during the past year. Katie says that all of the allegations were false and “obviously completely made up.”

    CPS never contacted us about these phone calls because they themselves admit that the calls were unsubstantiated.
    Yet, social worker Katie Pyle reportedly presented those phone calls to Magistrate Jennifer Coatney as evidence that Camden was in need of CPS care. According to the court report:

    …this child is at risk by virtue of multiple reports to Warren County Children Services and Father preventing the agency from investigating the situation [by exercising his 4th Amendment right to demand a court order or warrant before allowing CPS into his home]. The minor child has made threats of suicide and Father has not provided the children with proper mental health treatment.
    The school counselor and social worker have apparently made a diagnosis of a mental health disorder, although the law says that only a doctor can diagnose such. The family asserts that there is “zero proof of any such condition and zero proof of any parental wrongdoing, but yet the court ordered him removed.”

    Magistrate Jennifer Coatney reportedly told Katie in court:

    You see what happens? This is what will happen to your other children if you do not cooperate.
    Later that day, social workers showed up at the Maple home, this time with 8 armed police officers, and every intention of taking Camden into state custody. The Maples felt that they had no choice but to comply. CPS seized Camden and placed him with a relative.

    “How can this be?” Katie asks. “How can CPS get away with ripping children from loving homes without just cause? … CPS should not have this much unchecked power!”
    The court has ordered that Christian and Katie complete a psychological evaluation and a drug and alcohol evaluation. They are also to be randomly drug tested. Neither has any history, or so much as an allegation, of any drug or alcohol abuse or mental health issue. They have completed the evaluations, which all came back clean. They said that their psychological evaluator was “thoroughly confused” as to why they were even there.

    Camden has also been subjected to both a physical and a mental health evaluation. From what the family has gathered, there are no concerns with the results, and no services have been ordered for Camden based on the results. However, social worker Katie Pyle reportedly stated to the Maples that she would like to see Camden do counseling at the school “just to make sure that he doesn’t have thoughts of harming himself.”

    Their son is still not home. His siblings miss him and want to know when he is coming home.

    “Why Doesn’t CPS Focus on Real Abuse?”

    The Maples say that they haven’t done anything wrong. They could understand all this if they had abused their son, but they haven’t. Christian told Health Impact News:

    If someone is abusing their child, that is a crime. We have police in place for people who commit crimes. That is what the police department is for – to arrest people committing crimes. CPS is a duplicate police agency. If no crime is being committed, why do we need a government agency to come in to investigate families and remove children?
    Katie Maple made a statement that almost every family that has ever contacted Medical Kidnap has said to us:

    They [CPS] harass people who take care of their kids when they could be using their time more wisely and going after the people who actually DO abuse their children.
    Christian Maple is a big believer in the Constitution and individual rights, but says that when he asserted them, “they took them away.”

    Read the full story at MedicalKidnap.com
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)



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  3. #2
    This $#@! will not end peacefully, unless we all submit. A choice needs to be made.
    "The Patriarch"

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This $#@! will not end peacefully, unless we all submit. A choice needs to be made.
    This is really upsetting.

    We've had kids come to our school with supposed ADHD and never saw a sign of it once they were doing what they loved. It is usually a symptom of complete boredom mixed with high intelligence and is NOT an illness- just a direct result of gov ed.

    Wayne's World

    There is no spoon.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This $#@! will not end peacefully, unless we all submit. A choice needs to be made.
    And here we sit, 40 views and probably a "one star" inbound, read on a website of fringe kooks.

    And you know this directed as much at me as anybody else...


    “Why Doesn’t CPS Focus on Real Abuse?”

    The Maples say that they haven’t done anything wrong.
    Because that's not what they do, mom.

    Of course you haven't done anything wrong...this is what happens in a police state...as CA is found of saying and so is Fish, "goons gonna goon"...this is what they do...this is what they are there for.

    What's that you say? We're not a police state...this is the land of the free and so on...I'm a paranoid nut?

    Oh yeah...where's your son tonight, mom?
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  6. #5
    Children do not need to be protected by the State - period.

    Does the State Ever Have a “Right” to Remove Children from a Home?
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  7. #6
    This is horrible. Pure evil. This is why the schools all need to be blown up: as a national catharsis, eradicating this festering putrescence.

    Now, here's my practical advice. From the article:

    "Christian did not believe that was their business to know the details, and he and Katie chose to reject the primary school’s opinion that they needed to have Camden evaluated and treated by psychologists.

    "The school reported the Maples to Child Protective Services. Eight police officers later surrounded the family’s house and took 7 year old Camden away from his home and his family.
    "

    One needs to be alert to these things, and expect escalation. They had just brushed off the school authorities. Now, how many people do you know who like being brushed off? That's right, none. The parents just insulted the authorities and put them in their place. "None of my business? We'll see about that." They needed to expect a counter-move and not be at home. Much harder to kidnap the boy then, when the family has spontaneously decided to go on vacation. For a month. To Austria.

    "The school thinks he is ADHD, we as parents disagree. We believe that it stems mostly from boredom and not being challenged in the classroom. The school has tried on several occasions to get us to have him diagnosed, so that he can be medicated."

    They had plenty of warning, you see. There was not even any need to wait until the last minute and then flee. They had been having disagreements with the school for a long time. They had been, in the minds of the school wardens, provoking them. You can only poke the bear so many times.

    To state the obvious: they should have pulled him out long ago, and they shouldn't have even had him, nor any of their other kids, in the concentration camps in the first place.

    Be smart, RPFers; be vigilant; and keep your kids safe from their clutches.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Of course you haven't done anything wrong...this is what happens in a police state...as CA is found of saying and so is Fish, "goons gonna goon"...this is what they do...this is what they are there for.
    Saved me some typing.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    The Maples are still reeling in shock, and are now fighting to get him back home.
    No, they aren't.

    They're begging.



    It would be surprisingly easy to get their boy back.
    I'm just not sure how a group of people could do it without preemptively being treated exactly like they did.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    No, they aren't.

    They're begging.



    It would be surprisingly easy to get their boy back.
    I'm just not sure how a group of people could do it without preemptively being treated exactly like they did.
    Is there any more noble and justifiable cause than your own child?

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    I'm just not sure how a group of people could do it without preemptively being treated exactly like they did.
    What do you mean?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    What do you mean?
    There was a way shown to us on April 12 2014. It was even nonviolent.
    I don't know how it was organized without being preemptively shut down through black-bagging.

    Not that I would ever participate in any such thing anyway.
    /disclaimer
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  14. #12
    This stuff is scary. My son is 7 and could probably easily be diagnosed as ADHD.

    WE HOMESCHOOL

    I will be dead and buried before I risk my children in the public school lottery/assembly line.

    I sympathize with the parents, but you send your kids to the meat grinder, this is one possible outcome.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    They needed to expect a counter-move and not be at home. Much harder to kidnap the boy then, when the family has spontaneously decided to go on vacation. For a month. To Austria.
    Easier said then done. We know many cases where this "advice" you are giving was actually followed.

    One thing everyone needs to remember when making plans like this, is that the foster care/adoption business is a multi-BILLION dollar child trafficking business. They have vast amounts of resources at their disposal to go after kids and traffick them.

    I can obviously only comment on stories that are public, but this Texas family did exactly what you suggested, picking up their family and moving to Colorado, even leaving behind a job.

    But they were pursued in Colorado, and the children brought back to Texas. Yes, they made some mistakes along the way, but even if they had not, a homeschooling family of 10 children is not easy to hide. They still do have not have their children back, and their original "crime" was having too many children and being poor. Homeschooling did not keep them out of the system - neighbors who did not like seeing barefoot children run around outside turned them in.

    Colorado Police Help Texas CPS Kidnap Rembis Children and Bring Back to Texas – Father Jailed

    In this story out of Houston, a Nigerian family with dual citizenship in both Nigeria and the U.S. fled the UK to Texas when social services targeted their son while they were working there. The UK authorities contacted authorities in Texas, and their son was kidnapped by CPS in Houston.

    The parents are well educated (wife has a PhD.) and fought hard to get their son back. Once they did, they took the kids out of the U.S.

    Children of Texas Family Victimized by Medical Kidnapping Now Safe, Away from CPS

    And then there is this one where the parents fled Arizona with their kids, but they came to Nevada to get them.

    Arizona Kidnaps Shoars Children from Nevada, Children Scream in Terror As They are Dragged Away (audio)

    Listen to the audio recorded when they took the kids away, as the kids had already been kidnapped in the past and abused. It will curl your blood, beware! Not suitable for young children:

    Last edited by Created4; 03-22-2017 at 01:00 PM.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  16. #14
    Well, with hundreds or thousands of examples of this sort of thing readily available for consumption, it becomes something of difficult for me to get too sympathetic for these parents who, in the wake of so many of these events, keep their children in public schools.

    It makes me think... think...



    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    Easier said then done. We know many cases where this "advice" you are giving was actually followed.
    Well, seeing as how I have experience in actually doing, I will re-confirm that making the location of you and your loved-ones' bodies not align with the immediately obvious location(s) is indeed effective in buying you time, and with time, options.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Well, with hundreds or thousands of examples of this sort of thing readily available for consumption, it becomes something of difficult for me to get too sympathetic for these parents who, in the wake of so many of these events, keep their children in public schools.

    It makes me think... think...



    As I mentioned above, homeschool families are losing their children also. HSLDA (Home School Legal Defense Association) has litigated several cases where social workers have removed children from homeschool families without warrants. One that recently reached the 9th circuit I believe is on appeal to the Supreme Court.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    As I mentioned above, homeschool families are losing their children also. HSLDA (Home School Legal Defense Association) has litigated several cases where social workers have removed children from homeschool families without warrants. One that recently reached the 9th circuit I believe is on appeal to the Supreme Court.
    And here we see the practical virtues of closely-knit community. If like-minded people would establish such communities, after the first few such CPS agents left in body bags, we would see a quantum shift in government's habits of treading. Whether for the better... that would remain to be seen.

    We live in Empire, which is by its nature predatory. Empire inflames the inner predatory instincts of men in a morbid manner. Empire life is of a nature that similarly inflames the greed instinct far beyond its normal and healthy range of expression. Simple outer life inspires peaceable inner life, on the average. IMO, the complexities of Empire life drives human desire. Monument drives it. People see these huge contrivances of man and are inevitably driven to disrespect of their fellows for the sake of realizing their own grand vision. The greater out abilities to render great monuments into reality, the more drive we become on the average to want more of it and the less we are disposed to respect our fellows because we want what we want with so much suchness.

    We do not see this sort of thing, generally speaking, in tribal anarchic societies. There are exceptions - warlike tribes, but they seem to be a distinct minority. It seems very plausible to me that the over-stimulation of a man in these ways tends to result in the degradation of regard for one's fellows for the sake of those desires he would never be able to realize on his own. Therefore, he becomes willing to disregard the rights of his fellows for the sake of the collective agency that can realize his desires. This is, so far as I can tell, the basis of nearly all the "social" woes of Empire cultures since Sumer. It's a very simple scenario, actually. People become addicted to monument and achievement to such a morbid degree that they no longer care what others want. Beyond a threshold, the momentum of the mentality takes on a life of its own and all of a sudden disrespect of self and others becomes normalized to such an extent that those who do not get on the bandwagon become legitimized outcasts... at first. Eventually, they become criminalized and the next thing you know, its open season on them. This is the very pattern I have observed devolving over the course of my lifetime, the rate of advance having greatly accelerated since the world came to an end on 9/11/2001... and it did come to an end; it's just that most people have been unable or unwilling to see or accept this curious tidbit.

    Monument has driven endless greed, and Empire is all about monument. Empire came to us courtesy of the people of the middle-east, whose patriarchal filth has spread worldwide like a plague that now infects every crack and crevice of the earth. But I degress.

    Empire is fact, as is the likelihood that it will not be disappearing any time soon, if ever. Therefore, it perhaps behooves us to optimize freedom in the context of a social architecture that is inherently inimical to it. This would seem to suggest a path toward a sort of neo-feudalism in the face of ever more stridently violent and intrusive Empire such that these small and closely knit communities evolve such attitudes and practice that enable them to hold at arm's length those who would otherwise engage in actions such as that captioned in the OP.

    Imagine a town of 5000 people who were willing to kill any and all government officials who dare to violate the rights of the citizenry in even the least way. Send them all home in body bags or leave them for the coyotes, it would make no matter to me, save that I don't dislike coyotes nearly that much. The local political landscape would change. Again, I cannot say whether it could alter to the better or otherwise, but at least people would be making a stand.

    As we can see, a Free State Project is likely too ambitious. How about a free town project? Get a single, stinking town to make a serious commitment to liberty such that any governmental attack upon their citizens is met with extreme non-equivocation. It would be most interesting to see how that shook out. Some would say it is not possible, but why not? Do volunteer fire departments not manage 24x7 readiness, showing up at all hours of the day and night to do that for which they commit themselves? Are our freedoms not as important?
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  21. #18

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Oh yeah, osan!

    Preach on! Preach on!

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Town-or-County
    Not to hijack the thread, but I would also point out that if someone wanted to take over an entire state, Wyoming would have been the better choice than dopey NH.

    NH is a bastion of ultra-left stupidity and has been a long while. The indigent people there generally have little interest in freedom, but only the pretty slavery upon which in their minds they have stenciled the moniker. People go in pissing upwind.

    I cannot imagine there would have been less sympathy for the move in WY.

    Tactically speaking, a population just over 500K in WY presents less of a problem than well over a million in NH, especially since it appears to be a body far more inclined to Constitutional governance than the pink-0 slime that befoul NH.

    I still cannot for the life of me grok what possessed people to choose NH. Why not, then, NJ?
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  23. #20
    Osan, I have posted my answer over in the thread http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Town-or-County in order to keep things together on that topic and, as you say, not hijack this thread.

    But short answer: There was some stacking of the deck that went on from NH partisans.



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