Why so many protectionists here?

[Madison320]

In another thread about H1Bs I'd say it's running 60-40 in favor of limiting (banning) foreign workers from working for US companies. My question for those people is this, "Are you in favor of protectionism for services only or for both services and goods?".

Just to clarify my point. I think if you are against H1Bs, you are in favor of protectionism in services. To be consistent you should also be against free trade in goods, like cars, televisions, etc.

[specsaregood]

In another thread about H1Bs I'd say it's running 60-40 in favor of limiting (banning) foreign workers from working for US companies. My question for those people is this, "Are you in favor of protectionism for services only or for both services and goods?".

Yes, I am in favor. Because free trade doesn't work when you have the global fiat currency backed by a no limit credit card. You just end up with a fat useless aristocracy that can't even feed itself.

[otherone]

In another thread about H1Bs I'd say it's running 60-40 in favor of limiting (banning) foreign workers from working for US companies. My question for those people is this, "Are you in favor of protectionism for services only or for both services and goods?".

Hey buddy...
someone has to watch out for Americans.



"IIIII SEEE A SWARTHY MAN MOWING YOUR LAWN"

[merkelstan]

I'm pro free-trade.

However the US having the world reserve currency and a fiat currency gives it the ability to 'pay for things with printed money' (this is a huge oversimplification but there's truth in it).

Add to this the huge MIC effects crowding-out R&D in the consumer field, and that means the US is losing industrial competitiveness at an alarming rate.

If the trend continues, the USA will be more of an extortionist world empire, with a huge overlord and financial-tick class, a huge class of welfare dependents, and very little wealth-generating middle-class.

just my $.02

[kpitcher]

My problem with the H1B visas are well documented cases of having to train replacements before being canned like that Disney case awhile ago. Or the companies that write a H1B visa request in such a way that only the people they want actually meet the job spec. If there is an actual lack of talent by all means get people who can fill the job if it takes a visa.

[tod evans]

I'm pro free-trade.

However the US having the world reserve currency and a fiat currency gives it the ability to 'pay for things with printed money' (this is a huge oversimplification but there's truth in it).

Add to this the huge MIC effects crowding-out R&D in the consumer field, and that means the US is losing industrial competitiveness at an alarming rate.

If the trend continues, the USA will be more of an extortionist world empire, with a huge overlord and financial-tick class, a huge class of welfare dependents, and very little wealth-generating middle-class.

just my $.02

Ummmm.........

Future tense?

[timosman]

In another thread about H1Bs I'd say it's running 60-40 in favor of limiting (banning) foreign workers from working for US companies. My question for those people is this, "Are you in favor of protectionism for services only or for both services and goods?".

Does your life consist of anything other than services and goods?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I'm against condoms.

[nikcers]

I'm against condoms.

[KrokHead]

If the trend continues, the USA will be more of an extortionist world empire, with a huge overlord and financial-tick class, a huge class of welfare dependents, and very little wealth-generating middle-class.

And if you are against this you are a RACIST!!

It just seems like the powers that be determined that bankrolling social programs is a drop in the pot compared to a large middle class using up all that money. However rich people aren't that smart because everything has to be made cheaper and sold for cheaper because less and less people could afford 'it.'

[merkelstan]

And if you are against this you are a RACIST!!

It just seems like the powers that be determined that bankrolling social programs is a drop in the pot compared to a large middle class using up all that money. However rich people aren't that smart because everything has to be made cheaper and sold for cheaper because less and less people could afford 'it.'

Making stuff for lower cost is the source of material wealth, so nothing wrong with that.

Have you heard of libertarian class analysis? Society is the struggle between the tax-eating class, and the tax-paying class.

[tod evans]

Society is the struggle between the tax-eating class, and the tax-paying class.

This is good....+ rep

[paleocon1]

"I'm pro free-trade.

However the US having the world reserve currency and a fiat currency gives it the ability to 'pay for things with printed money' (this is a huge oversimplification but there's truth in it).

Add to this the huge MIC effects crowding-out R&D in the consumer field, and that means the US is losing industrial competitiveness at an alarming rate.

If the trend continues, the USA will be more of an extortionist world empire, with a huge overlord and financial-tick class, a huge class of welfare dependents, and very little wealth-generating middle-class."



That about sums it up.........Plus for me- I have no interest in importing the cultural defects of India, Vietnam, Mexico, Somalia, et al to Middle America. Diversity is a Defect, not a Feature.

[asurfaholic]

I do not support any form of limiting how companies hire employees. If someone wants to come to this country and mow lawns for fraction of what others are charging, then I'm fine with it. One a larger scale, if a corporation hires large amounts of cheap labor then it is better for everyone.

However, I am against the welfare state that draws illegals in.

[tod evans]

I do not support any form of limiting how companies hire employees. If someone wants to come to this country and mow lawns for fraction of what others are charging, then I'm fine with it. One a larger scale, if a corporation hires large amounts of cheap labor then it is better for everyone.

However, I am against the welfare state that draws illegals in.

This is kind of similar to my impression of the issue except.....I do not think foreigners here legally or illegally should be afforded any protection under the constitution along with no free $#@!.

Come here knowing that if you piss off the locals you're on your own......

[jmdrake]

Yes, I am in favor. Because free trade doesn't work when you have the global fiat currency backed by a no limit credit card. You just end up with a fat useless aristocracy that can't even feed itself.

Umm......what? Nothing that you said actually addressed the OP's point but okay.

[jmdrake]

I do not support any form of limiting how companies hire employees. If someone wants to come to this country and mow lawns for fraction of what others are charging, then I'm fine with it. One a larger scale, if a corporation hires large amounts of cheap labor then it is better for everyone.

However, I am against the welfare state that draws illegals in.

Cool. I agree. And I'm not aware of any H1B visa holders on welfare. In fact I'm pretty sure that's not allowed.

[jmdrake]

In another thread about H1Bs I'd say it's running 60-40 in favor of limiting (banning) foreign workers from working for US companies. My question for those people is this, "Are you in favor of protectionism for services only or for both services and goods?".

I would hazard a guess that a fair number of those speaking out against H1Bs actually stand in competition to H1B visa holders. It's easy to be free market when it's the other guys job on the line.

Here's the way I look at it. American workers are actually better off competing against H1B visa holders in this country than they are competing against outsourced tech labor in other countries. Think about it. Anybody can live in India or the Philippines on 10K a year. Try living in the U.S. on that.

[jmdrake]

I'm pro free-trade.

However the US having the world reserve currency and a fiat currency gives it the ability to 'pay for things with printed money' (this is a huge oversimplification but there's truth in it).

Add to this the huge MIC effects crowding-out R&D in the consumer field, and that means the US is losing industrial competitiveness at an alarming rate.

If the trend continues, the USA will be more of an extortionist world empire, with a huge overlord and financial-tick class, a huge class of welfare dependents, and very little wealth-generating middle-class.

just my $.02

You know when someone comes over here with an H1B visa he has to deal with the same cost of living issues that come from a debased currency that the rest of us have to deal with right? But if he is working remotely from India or the Philippines he can actually live off of 10K a year. Would you prefer that?

[Madison320]

I would hazard a guess that a fair number of those speaking out against H1Bs actually stand in competition to H1B visa holders. It's easy to be free market when it's the other guys job on the line.

Here's the way I look at it. American workers are actually better off competing against H1B visa holders in this country than they are competing against outsourced tech labor in other countries. Think about it. Anybody can live in India or the Philippines on 10K a year. Try living in the U.S. on that.

My guess was that most people are pro free trade when it comes to goods because it directly infringes on their ability to purchase things (imagine no Chinese imports), but that they're anti free trade when it comes to services since it's usually businesses that purchase services so it doesn't directly affect them(most people aren't business owners). So far it seems that most are anti free trade in both service and goods, which is actually a more intellectually honest position compared to only goods and not services.

[Madison320]

This is kind of similar to my impression of the issue except.....I do not think foreigners here legally or illegally should be afforded any protection under the constitution along with no free $#@!.

Come here knowing that if you piss off the locals you're on your own......

I agree. I'm starting to think the real problem isn't the illegals, it's their legal children. Illegals can't get (that much) welfare and can't vote. What if we changed the law to say you have to have a legal parent to be legal yourself. And then let the illegals stay as long as they don't commit crimes.

[AuH20]

"I'm pro free-trade.

However the US having the world reserve currency and a fiat currency gives it the ability to 'pay for things with printed money' (this is a huge oversimplification but there's truth in it).

Add to this the huge MIC effects crowding-out R&D in the consumer field, and that means the US is losing industrial competitiveness at an alarming rate.

If the trend continues, the USA will be more of an extortionist world empire, with a huge overlord and financial-tick class, a huge class of welfare dependents, and very little wealth-generating middle-class."



That about sums it up.........Plus for me- I have no interest in importing the cultural defects of India, Vietnam, Mexico, Somalia, et al to Middle America. Diversity is a Defect, not a Feature.

What about the brain drain as well? Ralph Nader may the only one on the left who recognizes this ongoing disaster.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...847358568.html

When a wealthy nation like the United States allows its giant corporations to turn their backs on the American labour force, impoverished societies overseas are also exploited unconscionably, often with deadly results.

In Africa, human beings die or become seriously sick for lack of physicians, nurses and indigenous scientific laboratories searching for ways to prevent or deal with infections and other diseases ignored by Western nations. Moreover critical public services are not maintained for the necessities of life.

Look at this problem from another perspective. Isn't it fortunate for the people of Bangladesh and others that a young Muhammad Yunus was not lured away to Wall Street and stayed in Bangladesh to start the now famous micro-credit movement in thousands of villages? Or wasn't it better for Brazil that Paulo Freire was not lured to Berkeley but instead remained in Brazil to create and apply his brilliant world-famous literacy programme for impoverished rural Brazilians?

Wasn't it better that an aggressive brain drain did not bring Hassan Fathy to our land instead of him becoming Egypt's "people architect" to show poor Egyptian peasants how to build small homes from the soil beneath their feet and stimulate architectural counterparts in other developing countries?

A quick glance at the annual report of the Ashoka Community of Fellows, founded by Bill Drayton, showcases the kind of skilled people from developing countries who became "change makers" because they remained in their own countries where they learned their many talents and refined their motivations.

Sure, nobody is forcing skilled workers from less developed countries to come to the US other than dictators, but if the US wants peace, stability and better livelihoods to have a chance, it has to tell its giant corporations to pull back on their gluttonous appetite to recruit the "cream of the crop" from these countries and invest in American skills.

These companies should display a little American patriotism by getting off Congress's back, hiring or training more Americans and finding some "cognitive empathy", in the words of Drayton, towards other far less privileged societies.

[jmdrake]

What about the brain drain as well? Ralph Nader may the only one on the left who recognizes this ongoing disaster.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...847358568.html

So now we need to be protectionist for the sake of the third world? Ummm......sure let's do that. And when the megacorps relocate operations to Bangladesh everybody will be better off right?

Edit: We should have told Wernher Von Braun to stay in Germany. Then Germany, or perhaps the Soviet Union would have won the space race.

[AuH20]

"I'm pro free-trade.

However the US having the world reserve currency and a fiat currency gives it the ability to 'pay for things with printed money' (this is a huge oversimplification but there's truth in it).

Add to this the huge MIC effects crowding-out R&D in the consumer field, and that means the US is losing industrial competitiveness at an alarming rate.

If the trend continues, the USA will be more of an extortionist world empire, with a huge overlord and financial-tick class, a huge class of welfare dependents, and very little wealth-generating middle-class."



That about sums it up.........Plus for me- I have no interest in importing the cultural defects of India, Vietnam, Mexico, Somalia, et al to Middle America. Diversity is a Defect, not a Feature.

When the U.S. finally transforms into a bland, polyglot World destination, that will be when it finally ceases to exist. The U.S. was unique during it's founding because it violently rejected the fraudulent contemporary world belief systems reigning at the time. Now we have people asking us to return to that same archaic thinking that our fore bearers escaped from.

[Ender]

I do not support any form of limiting how companies hire employees. If someone wants to come to this country and mow lawns for fraction of what others are charging, then I'm fine with it. One a larger scale, if a corporation hires large amounts of cheap labor then it is better for everyone.

However, I am against the welfare state that draws illegals in.

PRETTY MUCH MY POV, AS WELL.

[undergroundrr]

So all the protectionists here are pro-abortion right?

[jmdrake]

When the U.S. finally transforms into a bland, polyglot World destination, that will be when it finally ceases to exist. The U.S. was unique during it's founding because it violently rejected the fraudulent contemporary world belief systems reigning at the time. Now we have people asking us to return to that same archaic thinking that our fore bearers escaped from.

Okay. The question in the OP needs to change to "Why are so many protectionists using phony arguments to advance their agenda?" Seriously WTF?

[EBounding]

I think the argument is that H-1B's are basically a corporate subsidy since the "temporary" foreign workers are supposed to be paid the prevailing wage, but the foreign workers end up accepting wages that are much less. The firm who can get these government approved workers gets the market advantage. It goes along with the argument that you can't have open borders without any sort of welfare state.

[pcosmar]

So now we need to be protectionist for the sake of the third world? :

So it would seem. and quoting Nader. (I liked Corvair)

I am pro free trade. I am for unregulated employment.

Not a big fan of the whole "Paperclip" crowd,, nor the ballistic missile program.

There were better ways into space than the Arms Race.

[pcosmar]

Okay. The question in the OP needs to change to "Why are so many protectionists using phony arguments to advance their agenda?" Seriously WTF?