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Thread: Squishy Legislation Won’t Fool Voters: Ryancare Will Loom Over Trump 2020

  1. #1

    Default Squishy Legislation Won’t Fool Voters: Ryancare Will Loom Over Trump 2020

    Rand tweeted this article.


    Squishy Legislation Won’t Fool Voters: Ryancare Will Loom Over Trump 2020

    Congress is doing the president no favors

    By Brian Darling • 03/08/17 10:00am

    Republicans are engaging in a politically dangerous game by partially repealing Obamacare while leaving its core elements intact. President Donald Trump might have a more difficult time winning re-election in 2020 because Republicans are breaking their solemn campaign promise to repeal Obamacare fully.

    I am no expert in health care, but I do remember that Republicans promised repeatedly that they were going to fully repeal Obamacare.

    In 2015, the budget produced by House Republicans explicitly promised that it “repeals Obamacare in full—including all of its taxes, regulations and mandates.” On May 15, 2015, Senate Republicans on the Budget Committee made the same promise whey they pledged that the Senate budget “provides for repeal of Obamacare to start over with patient-centered reforms.” In 2017, these same “leaders” are running away from those promises.

    Americans voted for Republicans enough for them to control both chambers of Congress, yet these same Republicans are advocating for a Trojan Horse piece of legislation that purports to be a “repeal and replace” of Obamacare when it is really a “partial repeal and repair” of Obama’s signature law.

    One can call it Ryancare, Obamcare-lite, or Obamacare 2.0, but it isn’t a full repeal of Obamacare, because it repairs more than it repeals. The American people will not be fooled by this squishy legislation that keeps the core elements of the misnamed “Affordable Care Act.”

    Somewhere, Obama is on a beach sipping a margarita and saying, “I told you so.”

    Ryancare sets up a number of expiring provisions that will remove healthcare benefits from millions of Americans in the months leading up to Trump’s 2020 bid for a second term.

    Chris Jacobs of the Texas Public Policy Foundation writes that the plan also falls short of fundamentally removing federal control over supply and demand of healthcare. According to Jacobs:

    This plan fails to repeal most of the costly mandates and insurance regulations driving up premiums and deductibles.

    This plan replaces Obamacare’s subsidy scheme with a new costly federal entitlement in the form of a refundable tax credit.

    This plan leaves significant portions of the flawed and costly Medicaid expansion intact by delaying the freeze on Medicaid enrollment, maintaining the expansion of the program to the able-bodied, and providing a pathway for non-expansion states to accept enhanced federal dollars.
    http://observer.com/2017/03/ryancare...care-proposal/
    Freedom index

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  3. #2

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    Trump consistently said "repeal and replace"- not "repeal and replace with nothing". He actually promised "insurance for everybody." "Everybody's gotta be covered." Then he realized "how complicated it can be". "They can have their doctors, they can have their plans". "Who is going to pay for that?" "The government is going to pay for it." "We don't have any idea yet what it will cost". "Cutting taxes is tiny little ant compared to what we are talking about with Obamacare" (meaning costs will be yoooge)



    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-08-2017 at 02:42 PM.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  4. #3

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    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  5. #4

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    Don't worry about it. The Greatness is Just Beginning®
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  6. #5

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    So when is Trump going to figure out that government should have no place in the insurance business?

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    Is there anything that Trump could do that would cause his base to abandon him? I'm not sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I think [Trump] is going to cut the budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Why do you try to disprove actual real evidence by discussing the views of the person who compiled it? That doesn't make any logical sense.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    So when is Trump going to figure out that government should have no place in the insurance business?
    Never.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I think [Trump] is going to cut the budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Why do you try to disprove actual real evidence by discussing the views of the person who compiled it? That doesn't make any logical sense.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    So when is Trump going to figure out that government should have no place in the insurance business?
    I'm fairly certain that trump's businesses are taking advantage of at least 1 govt insurance program, so probably never, he's a corporatist and loves govt being involved.

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    Clues to what is going on: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-s...are-stocks-too

    6 Senators Assessing Trump's HHS Nominee Own Health Care Stocks, Too


    President-elect Donald Trump's pick to run the Department of Health and Human Services is taking heat for his controversial stock holdings in companies affected by laws he has worked on and voted for. But federal records show several senators who will take part in confirmation hearings for Rep. Tom Price, a Georgia Republican, have substantial health-related holdings as well.

    At least six members of the two Senate committees tasked with questioning or confirming Price, who was trained as an orthopedic surgeon, hold shares in health care companies. A Kaiser Health News analysis finds that the investments, which include shares in companies such as Merck, Medtronic and Gilead Sciences, have been held by Sens. Thomas Carper, D-Del., Bill Cassidy, R-La., Susan Collins, R-Maine, Tim Kaine, D-Va., Mark Warner, D-Va., and Sheldon Whitehouse, D-R.I.

    "This conflict of interest problem is one that members [of Congress] have danced around over a period of years much too lightly," said former Rep. Lee Hamilton, a Democrat, who founded the Indiana University Center on Representative Government after spending more than 30 years in Congress. "And I think it needs to be corrected in order to have confidence in the institution."

    KHN examined the most recent annual financial disclosures for the 40 senators who sit on either the Finance Committee; the Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions; or both. The HELP Committee's courtesy hearing with Price is Wednesday, and the Finance Committee's more pivotal vote has been scheduled for Jan. 24.

    About half the senators reported holding stocks in their households, but only six disclosed owning stocks in health and biomedical firms.

    Of the six, Whitehouse and his family have the most health stocks, split among various IRAs, education savings accounts and other accounts and belonging to Whitehouse, his wife and his children. In all, they disclosed between $402,000 and $1.3 million in health-related holdings in 2015. The disclosures don't give exact numbers and instead include ranges.

    Price has been criticized following a Wall Street Journal investigation that found he traded more than $300,000 in health-related stocks while serving on a health subcommittee of the House Committee on Ways and Means. Democrats have called for investigations into whether Price made trades based on insider knowledge.

    Earlier this month, Trump transition spokesman Phillip Blando blasted Democrats' hypocrisy and singled out Carper, Warner and Whitehouse for owning health stocks, calling for similar questions to be asked about their trades and holdings. He declined last week to comment further on the senators' stock holdings. Price has told ethics officials he would divest his stock in dozens of publicly traded companies.

    Owning the stocks is legal, but not everyone agrees on whether it's fair, said Tim LaPira, a political science professor at James Madison University, adding that the Senate is on average wealthier than the House. "Of course they can invest their money as they please," he said.

    The major concern, political analysts said, is that members of Congress will help pass laws to benefit companies in which they own stock. According to the Senate ethics rules, "A Member, officer, or employee may not use his or her official position for personal gain."

    Although insider trading has been illegal for members of Congress since 2012, it's nearly impossible to prove, LaPira said.

    Research studies have shown that members of Congress tend to make higher returns on the stock market than the general public. "We found that in general, they earn about 12 percent a year more than the average bear," said Alan Ziobrowski, a retired Georgia State University real estate professor who published a 2004 study of Senate stock performance from 1993 through 1998. He did a similar study of House stock performance in 2011.

    He said members of Congress could have access to information that can aid in stock picking, including earlier notice that laws are about to change or additional information gathered from industry lobbyists. Ziobrowski said a follow-up study by another researcher in 2013 found that members of Congress "quit fooling around on the stock market" after his study of the Senate was released, but that no one has repeated his analysis since.

    Collins, Kaine and Whitehouse serve on the HELP Committee, whose jurisdiction includes measures pertaining to health, "biomedical research and development." Carper and Warner are on the Finance Committee, which deals generally with money and taxes. But it also handles "health programs under the Social Security Act and health programs financed by a specific tax or trust fund." Cassidy is on both committees.

    Since 2015, Whitehouse appears to have been an active trader and filed 10 periodic transaction reports in 2016. Annual reports for 2016 aren't due until mid-May, but periodic reports must be filed within 45 days of a trade, according to the 2012 STOCK Act, which stands for Stop Trading on Congressional Knowledge.

    Around the time the House released its near-final version of the 21st Century Cures bill, which was intended to speed the FDA's drug approval process, Whitehouse's family purchased more stock in Gilead Sciences, which makes the pricey hepatitis C drugs Sovaldi and Harvoni.

    The Whitehouses' Gilead purchases that month ranged from $4,000 to $60,000. The family also purchased shares of Amgen and Abbott. Whitehouse later voted in favor of the bill. The Gilead stock decreased in value following these purchases but got a slight bump up just before the bill was signed into law on Dec. 13. Some of the Gilead stock was sold about a week later.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Is there anything that Trump could do that would cause his base to abandon him? I'm not sure.
    Many voted for Trump because he was going to change things- they didn't know how he was going to change them. Some may find they don't like some of his ideas for that change. But his core will still be there- like it was for Obama who also promised "Change". Every new president promises to change things. Then over time they realize they didn't get the change they expected and pick somebody else promising change.

    Given Trump's propensity to division and controversy, I doubt he can retain a large enough base to win re-election in four years (didn't think W Bush could get re-elected either then 9/11 happened- whenever he started slipping in the polls during his re-election they released a vague terror attack warning which never happened- after the election they somehow stopped).
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-08-2017 at 03:31 PM.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I seem to recall that congresspeople had passed a law exempting themselves from insider trading laws. I'm not sure they really want to research this all that deeply.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Is there anything that Trump could do that would cause his base to abandon him? I'm not sure.
    The hardcore Trumpkins will stick with him to the bitter end, ala the Obamabots.

    But this is a small part of the base. The majority (of those who haven't hated him all along) are starting to wake up.

  14. #13

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    Cucks need to fall in line. Our BIG LEAGUE president knows what he's doing!
    Protest the NSA! Send encrypted e-mails!
    My PGP Key
    PGP Fingerprint: 3A2E 6218 3722 3701 09C9 54CA 9BB3 104C 5049 B6B2

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    Cucks need to fall in line. Our BIG LEAGUE president knows what he's doing!
    indeed

    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

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    His genus burns with the brilliance of a thousand suns...

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    Anyone have the clip from the debate where Rand said Trumps views on healthcare would be against everything the Republicans have stood for since the tea party movement? Is this a reverse tea party or just a tea party on steroids?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Anyone have the clip from the debate where Rand said Trumps views on healthcare would be against everything the Republicans have stood for since the tea party movement? Is this a reverse tea party or just a tea party on steroids?
    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign...lthcare-answer

    As Donald Trump was crescendoing on a clarification of his one-time support of a single-payer healthcare system during the first GOP primary debate Thursday, Sen. Rand Paul cut him off. “News flash,” the Kentucky Republican fired off at his competitor for the Republican presidential nomination. “The Republican Party’s been fighting against a single-payer system for over a decade.” “I don’t think you heard me,” Trump shot back. “You’re having a hard time tonight.” The testy exchange came amid a broader discussion of healthcare during the presidential debate in Cleveland. Trump was pressed on previous positive comments he had made the healthcare systems in countries like Canada, which is based on a single-payer model.

    ...Paul wasn’t the only one not swayed by Trump’s response. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), the self-proclaimed socialist seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, incredulously tweeted: “Did @realDonaldTrump just support a national single-payer health system? Well. He was right on something. #DebateWithBernie”
    The take away from this exchange by Republican voters?

    ...was is that Trump's a pro socialized medicine leftist masquerading as a conservative?

    Nope, nope, it was that Trump, like, totally zinged Rand, woot, alpha baby!



    Anyway, here's the video. Rand interjects around 1:30.


  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by MallsRGood View Post

    But this is a small part of the base. The majority (of those who haven't hated him all along) are starting to wake up.
    What good does "waking up" accomplish? The article is right - people voted GOP for 6 straight years to get Obamacare repealed. THe law was passed with no GOP support, but this new bill is going to need Dem votes to carry it?

    As with the bailouts and TARP stuff, the voters apparently have no say. The bastards will pass this, then in 2 years we'll lose seats. (Even Reagan lost seats.)

    I don't blame Trump for the bill, although there's no good excuse for him to sign it. This is the same old squishy GOP and their passive-aggressive voters.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    What good does "waking up" accomplish?
    You're asking me what good it would do to stop supporting the leftist President's leftist agenda?

    The article is right - people voted GOP for 6 straight years to get Obamacare repealed. THe law was passed with no GOP support, but this new bill is going to need Dem votes to carry it?

    As with the bailouts and TARP stuff, the voters apparently have no say. The bastards will pass this, then in 2 years we'll lose seats. (Even Reagan lost seats.)
    No no no, I'm sick of this bull$#@! narrative that politicians don't listen to the voters.

    The vast majority of time, they do.

    The problem is that the voters keep voting in obvious, overt leftists, like Trump and most of Congress.

    I don't blame Trump for the bill
    You should, since he's supporting it, and his position on it is more determinative of the outcome than anyone else's.
    Last edited by MallsRGood; 03-08-2017 at 04:44 PM.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    What good does "waking up" accomplish? The article is right - people voted GOP for 6 straight years to get Obamacare repealed. THe law was passed with no GOP support, but this new bill is going to need Dem votes to carry it?

    As with the bailouts and TARP stuff, the voters apparently have no say. The bastards will pass this, then in 2 years we'll lose seats. (Even Reagan lost seats.)

    I don't blame Trump for the bill, although there's no good excuse for him to sign it. This is the same old squishy GOP and their passive-aggressive voters.
    Actually it does most of what he outlined he wanted in his quasi- "State of the Union" speech he gave recently. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-trump-replace

    The most important provision Trump supported was “tax credits”. Eerily similar to the current system of subsidies for individual insurance, Republicans have proposed these credits before. The difference? Republicans want them to be less generous, and to distribute them by age – not income.

    This strategy is embraced by Republican leadership, but getting conservatives on board could determine whether the ship floats. Some right-leaning news outlets criticized tax credits because they continue government spending, and key conservatives have already come out against it.

    “The bill contains what increasingly appears to be a new health-insurance entitlement with a Republican stamp on it,” Republican congressman Mark Walker said, according to Fox News.

    Trump promised to provide “access” to coverage for people who are already sick with “pre-existing conditions”. That probably refers to high-risk pools – government-subsidized coverage plans that 35 states had before the ACA. Most had higher premiums and deductibles, and annual and lifetime limits on care. Republicans have also proposed this solution in past plans.

    Trump called for “flexibility” with Medicaid spending, harkening back to work by Trump’s nominee to head the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid, Seema Verma. In the past, she designed state plans with work requirements for the poor, lock-out periods as long as six months, and complex bureaucracy. Nevertheless, her plans were able to expand Medicaid in deeply conservative states. She faces a key committee vote on Wednesday.

    Trump’s promise to “implement
    This is from a year ago: https://www.hermancain.com/trump-rel...even-point-hea

    1) Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.

    2) Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state. By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.

    3) Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.

    4) Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate.

    5) Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure.

    6) Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources.

    7) Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-08-2017 at 04:54 PM.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by MallsRGood View Post
    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign...lthcare-answer



    The take away from this exchange by Republican voters?

    ...was is that Trump's a pro socialized medicine leftist masquerading as a conservative?

    Nope, nope, it was that Trump, like, totally zinged Rand, woot, alpha baby!



    Anyway, here's the video. Rand interjects around 1:30.

    In that exchange, he was actually making fun of Rand for having hearing aids.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Is there anything that Trump could do that would cause his base to abandon him? I'm not sure.
    ...republicans are remarkably loyal...and stooooooooooopid....it's loooooooooong-standing...ronald reagan had his idiots frothing at mouth about 'jimmy carter's horrible spending and accumulated debt'...then stinking reagan signed virtually every spending bill on the way to a doubling of carter's budget and a tripling of the carter national debt accumulation..but reagan is still a hero [ime, the biggest hero of the loudest republicreeps] to the republican-cheerleading peckerheads...trump reminds me of reagan......
    Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 03-08-2017 at 05:33 PM.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by H. E. Panqui View Post
    ...republicans are remarkably loyal...and stooooooooooopid....it's loooooooooong-standing...ronald reagan had his idiots frothing at mouth about jimmy carter's horrible spending and accumulated debt...then stinking reagan signed virtually every spending bill on the way to a doubling of carter's budget and a tripling of the carter national debt accumulation..but reagan is still a hero [ime, the biggest hero of the loudest republicreeps] to the republican-cheerleading peckerheads...trump reminds me a lot reagan for some reason...
    Reagan expanded Medicare and signed what at the time was the largest tax increase in US history (he also signed bills to reduce taxes). He argued against nuclear weapons (and even suggested in negotiations with Russia that both sides get rid of all of theirs) while presiding over the largest expansion of our nuclear arsenal (and peacetime increase in defense spending too).
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by MallsRGood View Post
    You're asking me what good it would do to stop supporting the leftist President's leftist agenda?



    .
    One thing Ron Paul was good about was keeping personality separate from policy. I was talking about a bad policy, you're talking about Trump.

    So my bad. Carry on.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Actually it does most of what he outlined he wanted in his quasi- "State of the Union" speech he gave recently. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-trump-replace
    See the post above.

    I don't give a $#@! what Trump said - he doesn't write bills. He signs them.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    See the post above.

    I don't give a $#@! what Trump said - he doesn't write bills. He signs them.
    By your definition, that also exempts Obama from any credit or blame for Obamacare and every other piece of legislation he signed. Congress wrote it after all. He only signed it. It should have been called "CongressCare".
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-08-2017 at 07:37 PM.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  28. #27

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    Wasn't 600 dollar epinephrine shots that cost 30 cents to manufacture the final nail in the coffin? I remember the talking point even some "libertarians" were telling was that Our healthcare system didn't have enough people paying into it so if everyone pays a little into it going to the doctors will become cheaper. This was supposed to put an end to 60 dollar asprin in the ER. I never understood this argument I remember saying are you stupid we have the most expensive healthcare in the world how is giving it more money going to help when the most expensive part of medicine is billing they have to pay people to count our money because we are so ducking stupid

  29. #28

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    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I was talking about a bad policy, you're talking about Trump.
    No, I too am talking about bad policy, Trumpcare in this case.

  31. #30

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    Trump is executing a double-reverse psyop chess move, and you guys don't even see it.

    This board is lame.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

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