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Thread: Trump tweets: Rand will come along with the new and great health care program

  1. #31

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    "Will come along with?" I believe Rand already has come up with a plan...



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  3. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by qh4dotcom View Post
    Rand is a bit clueless....he wants insurance companies to cover people with pre-exisiting health conditions. What do you all think about that?
    Like when you get health care at your work...you're in bigger pool and they don't check or care about preexisting conditions.

  4. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by qh4dotcom View Post
    Rand is a bit clueless....he wants insurance companies to cover people with pre-exisiting health conditions. What do you all think about that?
    Lol he's not clueless, he did that on purpose.

    Rand and Massie have already come out and loudly stated that the bill will fail. Rand used the language, "dead on arrival"
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  5. #34

    Default That's how it works when you get healthcare from a corporate job

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  6. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    He's just playing 63d chess, he's setting it up so that when PaulRyan's bastard of a plan fails, RandPaul's plan can ride in and save the day. Or he's just trolling Randal, that's a definite possibility.
    One has to wonder if some of it is kept in for this purpose: "Anticipate compromise". A negotiating tactic.

  7. #36

  8. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotOne View Post
    I'm not reading that the same way as you guys. I'm reading it as a request not to block the new plan.
    That was the sense I got at first, too. But I think Trump would still be open to Rand's plan IF Rand is able to push things along and make it happen - like Trump will let the two factions fight it out and may the better plan win. Sort of - "Your turn, Rand. Have at it!" They've already been out there expressing alternative viewpoints in the media and have successfully cast much doubt on Ryan's plan - so I'm not convinced we are stuck with it yet.

  9. #38

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    Rand must feel his position is strengthening again. Happy to hear it.

  10. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by anaconda View Post
    Like when you get health care at your work...you're in bigger pool and they don't check or care about preexisting conditions.
    I agree and Associations which Rand talks about would free people from a certain job or employer as the only way to keep health insurance. An association can be any organization with enough members. I belong to a half dozen organizations that have special offers on car insurance, life insurance etc that give group discounts. The same could work for health insurance. I hate requirements but to immediately solve the PEC people an association that offered group health insurance could be required to take a small percentage.
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  11. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotOne View Post
    One has to wonder if some of it is kept in for this purpose: "Anticipate compromise". A negotiating tactic.
    Still makes no sense. (no matter how much Trumpcuckers want to reconcile it in their cognitively dissonating minds)

    If you were going to negotiate to get a good bill, you'd start on the other side. Complete repeal and let the market sort it out. Then you'd come back to the table with concessions. If they're "negotiating", they're doing it for the Democrats.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  12. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by seapilot View Post
    I agree and Associations which Rand talks about would free people from a certain job or employer as the only way to keep health insurance. An association can be any organization with enough members. I belong to a half dozen organizations that have special offers on car insurance, life insurance etc that give group discounts. The same could work for health insurance. I hate requirements but to immediately solve the PEC people an association that offered group health insurance could be required to take a small percentage.
    I've been thinking that the associations would help with the PEC as you could have associations specializing in "insurance" for a specific condition with the ability to streamline and cut costs.

  13. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by milgram View Post
    Rand did pretty good with those snakes, especially the allephole at the end. They are trying to get soundbites to use for their agenda. Media coverage is good, but going into the viper den almost negates the benefit.
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  14. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotOne View Post
    One has to wonder if some of it is kept in for this purpose: "Anticipate compromise". A negotiating tactic.
    How you guys don't hang on my every word is beyond me. I'm like an oracle .

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...cement-debate/

  15. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by freejack View Post
    Is he trolling us, because I feel like he's trolling us.
    Don't forget Don's self declared negotiating style... He goes balls to the wall knowing he will end up with less.
    This seems more like wanting to chalk this one up with as little effort or expenditure of polcapital as possible.
    Governmental expediency is usually the knife in Liberty's back...
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  16. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotOne View Post
    How you guys don't hang on my every word is beyond me. I'm like an oracle .

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...cement-debate/
    President Trump has used the launch, and decline, of the American Health Care Act to highlight the downside and take some wind out of the sails of the politicians and policy wonks who convinced themselves they had all the answers.
    Holy hell! People really believe this stuff! lol.

    We'll chalk this up to, "what he really meant was..." or "what he's really trying to do is..." Oh, the Trumpcuckery!!! The cult of personality is strong in these ones.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  17. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Holy hell! People really believe this stuff! lol.

    We'll chalk this up to, "what he really meant was..." or "what he's really trying to do is..." Oh, the Trumpcuckery!!! The cult of personality is strong in these ones.
    I don't expect a checker player to understand what a chess player is doing .

  18. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotOne View Post
    I don't expect a checker player to understand what a chess player is doing .
    Yep! 28D Chess!!

    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Don't worry, surely the trumpettes will be along soon enough, to do one or more of the following:
    A) Argue about the meaning of words like "cut", "spending", "military", "entitlement", "increase", and "budget"
    B) Tell us that their authoritarian idol really didn't mean what he said
    C) Tell us that this is a brilliant move in a game of 3-D chess that only trumpettes are capable of understanding
    D) Tell us that it's ok because obomba did it first
    E) Tell us that it's ok because it would have been horrible if clinton had done the very same thing
    F) Tell us that this is what Liberty and Freedom really mean
    G) Call CPUd names
    Brilliant! I think it goes something like this: (Increase spending and debt + increase entitlements + increase police power + increase warfare + increase size and scope of government) X "Magic!" = Liberty!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Damn, I can't wait!!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  19. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by qh4dotcom View Post
    http://www.businessinsider.com/rand-...ent-act-2017-1

    "It (Rand's bill) would also provide a two-year window for people with preexisting conditions to sign up for care."
    Yeah, that stinks. Boo!!!

    Like her or hate her, Ann Coulter's plan is actually the best out of all prominent plans that have been put out on the table currently. The best, the most libertarian, the smartest. It is this: the bill should have one sentence:

    There shall be a free market in health insurance.

    That's it! That's all ya need! They've had seven years to come up with this. It's not that complicated.

    Then, once they've passed that (and 90% of the problem is thus solved), Ann's plan is that they:

    Repeal the requirement that hospitals provide “free” care to anyone who shows up. Me: Yes! Yes! Yes!

    Repeal the exemption of insurance companies from the antitrust laws. I don't know whether this would be a help or hindrance, but maybe it would help. Much better to repeal all the anti-trust laws, obviously.

    Make health insurance benefits taxable at the same rate as regular income. This actually would be a huge, HUGE deal, long term. You wouldn't see the effects immediately, just as the effects of the WWII wage controls and the health benefits loophole to get around it took decades to percolate and destroy the healthcare system. But slowly but surely, by effectively ending employer-provided insurance, this would bring back care into the control of the individual, which is really the only thing that can restore sanity to the system. Of course you bundle this with the slash in the overall rate so that taxes are still going massively down and at the same time you're ending this perverse incentive. It's a perfect time and opportunity to do this.

    Here's the other thing. Everyone's on about how it will take 60 votes in the Senate to do the subsequent phases. 60 votes, 60 votes. So we have to pass this partially birthed monstrosity because it won't need 60 votes. Anything that's not budget needs 60 votes. ANYTHING! Look, does this Congress plan on actually passing any of its agenda, or not? Republicans have the House, the Senate, and the Presidency. Do you know what that means? It means they are in control (at least the public thinks they are and should be). Do you know what the Democrats do when they have control (e.g. in 2008 when they had House, Sentate, and Pres)? They fire up the afterburners and just plain pass stuff, all their stuff, everything they want to do. No brakes. They just push it all through. Procedure doesn't matter. Rules don't matter. Nothing matters but winning, and they just win. Win. Win. Win. Period. So are the Republicans planning on having absolutely zero, literally zero, non-budget bills pass for the next two years? Because that's what will happen. The Democrats will just stonewall. All day, every day. Easiest thing in the world for them. The Republican congressmen are just content and hunky-dory with that?

    They are such cowed, useless, quivering LOSERS!

    They need to get serious. To actually care about the conservative agenda, like the Democrats care about the socialist one. Short of that, to at least act like they care.

    They need to burn some bridges.

    They need to go scorched earth.

    There's a solution. Do not fear the fillibuster. Just move forward as if it doesn't exist. Pass the bills you want to pass through the House. Just say that everything is a budget bill. That's it! Every bill is a budget bill. Or, alternatively: repeal the fillibuster. Just end it. For everything. For the next eight years, no fillibuster.

    Oh, they will howl! Howl, howl, howl. Because nobody likes to lose. Until there is a ceaseless, deafening, 24-hours-a-day cacophony of howling, you know you are not winning. Once there is.... well you know you've at least made a start. Conservatives howled about losing during the Obama years, but conservatives control 0% of the media, entertainment, and cultural leaders. The left controls 100% of it. You think the GOP howling was loud? Once the left starts actually losing (they never have before. Never.), you should hear howling such as this world has never heard.

    It will be the most beautiful symphony ever heard; mankind's greatest achievement.
    Last edited by helmuth_hubener; 03-10-2017 at 10:09 AM.
    The rebel of the 21st Century will be old-fashioned.

    Western Civilization is collapsing. Modernity, particularly egalitarianism, has killed it. The solution is to implement a traditional-style civilization.

  20. #49

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  21. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by qh4dotcom View Post
    Rand is a bit clueless....he wants insurance companies to cover people with pre-exisiting health conditions. What do you all think about that?
    If "pre-existing conditions" include all the high blood pressure, diabetes and heart disease caused by government dietary guidelines and over-prescription of drugs, they could would be wiped out by recognizing that dehydration causes high blood pressure, and that dehydration and carbs cause non-insulin dependent diabetes and cancer.
    Member of Ron Paul Forums Double Flat Tariff Only Society - Working towards eliminating all the foreign producer/outsource subsidizing internal federal taxes in favor of an across the board flat tariff applied equally to every country and every product.

  22. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by sratiug View Post
    If "pre-existing conditions" include all the high blood pressure, diabetes and heart disease caused by government dietary guidelines and over-prescription of drugs, they could would be wiped out by recognizing that dehydration causes high blood pressure, and that dehydration and carbs cause non-insulin dependent diabetes and cancer.
    No insurance plan will succeed until cost of healthcare is lowered by recognizing these indisputable facts.
    Member of Ron Paul Forums Double Flat Tariff Only Society - Working towards eliminating all the foreign producer/outsource subsidizing internal federal taxes in favor of an across the board flat tariff applied equally to every country and every product.

  23. #52

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    https://twitter.com/allahpundit/stat...71360630845445
    I dont think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president, he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. Hes the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  24. #53

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    Just kill the fillibuster!

    Just kill the fillibuster!


    Once the fillibuster is dead, the votes are there; the path is wide open. To do whatever they want. This whole "process" excuse is nonsense.
    The rebel of the 21st Century will be old-fashioned.

    Western Civilization is collapsing. Modernity, particularly egalitarianism, has killed it. The solution is to implement a traditional-style civilization.

  25. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by qh4dotcom View Post
    Rand is a bit clueless....he wants insurance companies to cover people with pre-exisiting health conditions. What do you all think about that?
    That is the current law. People have changed their behavior because of that law. Let's say you worked for a company just for the group health insurance. Then you quit to be self-employed because insurance was now accessible to you. It would be very unreasonable to instantly take that away after making a major life change because of that government policy. Grandfathering someone in is very reasonable. You need predictable rules with some continuity for a free society to work.

  26. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    That is the current law. People have changed their behavior because of that law. Let's say you worked for a company just for the group health insurance. Then you quit to be self-employed because insurance was now accessible to you. It would be very unreasonable to instantly take that away after making a major life change because of that government policy. Grandfathering someone in is very reasonable. You need predictable rules with some continuity for a free society to work.
    You can't get insurance for a house that is on fire

  27. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by merkelstan View Post
    You can't get insurance for a house that is on fire
    You might be able to, but the cost would be prohibitive.

  28. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    You might be able to, but the cost would be prohibitive.
    Would probably be bundled with extinguishing services. Kind of a pre-payment system that comes with a satisfaction guarantee.
    The rebel of the 21st Century will be old-fashioned.

    Western Civilization is collapsing. Modernity, particularly egalitarianism, has killed it. The solution is to implement a traditional-style civilization.

  29. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Would probably be bundled with extinguishing services. Kind of a pre-payment system that comes with a satisfaction guarantee.
    Yeah, you tell them you want to insure your $250,000 home and it's on fire, they say, the first monthly payment will be $300,000 and then normalize after that.

  30. #59

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    One of the strangest, most icky aspects of US health insurance is having to get new insurance with a job switch. That makes pre-existing conditions such a problem.

  31. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by merkelstan View Post
    One of the strangest, most icky aspects of US health insurance is having to get new insurance with a job switch. That makes pre-existing conditions such a problem.
    Yeah, and the "Coulter Plan" (my name) would fix that. For review:

    • "There shall be a free market in health insurance."

    • Repeal the part of the US Code that requires hospitals to provide free care to any bum who shows up.

    • Repeal the exemption of insurance companies from the antitrust laws.

    • Make health insurance benefits taxable at the same rate as regular income.

    I would add a couple, such as:

    • Medicare is hereby repealed in full

    • Medicaid is hereby repealed in full

    • There shall be a free market in drug and medical development. The FDA is hereby repealed in full.

    ...but that's just me.
    The rebel of the 21st Century will be old-fashioned.

    Western Civilization is collapsing. Modernity, particularly egalitarianism, has killed it. The solution is to implement a traditional-style civilization.

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