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Thread: A Back-Channel Plan for Ukraine and Russia, Courtesy of Trump Associates

  1. #1

    A Back-Channel Plan for Ukraine and Russia, Courtesy of Trump Associates

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/19/u...ne-russia.html

    Led by Trump's own personal lawyer. Proposal allegedly includes removing the democratically elected leader of the Ukraine, replacing him with one more pro- Russian and "leasing" Crimea to Russia.

    A week before Michael T. Flynn resigned as national security adviser, a sealed proposal was hand-delivered to his office, outlining a way for President Trump to lift sanctions against Russia.

    Mr. Flynn is gone, having been caught lying about his own discussion of sanctions with the Russian ambassador. But the proposal, a peace plan for Ukraine and Russia, remains, along with those pushing it: Michael D. Cohen, the president’s personal lawyer, who delivered the document; Felix H. Sater, a business associate who helped Mr. Trump scout deals in Russia; and a Ukrainian lawmaker trying to rise in a political opposition movement shaped in part by Mr. Trump’s former campaign manager Paul Manafort.

    At a time when Mr. Trump’s ties to Russia, and the people connected to him, are under heightened scrutiny — with investigations by American intelligence agencies, the F.B.I. and Congress — some of his associates remain willing and eager to wade into Russia-related efforts behind the scenes.

    Mr. Trump has confounded Democrats and Republicans alike with his repeated praise for the Russian president, Vladimir V. Putin, and his desire to forge an American-Russian alliance. While there is nothing illegal about such unofficial efforts, a proposal that seems to tip toward Russian interests may set off alarms.

    The amateur diplomats say their goal is simply to help settle a grueling, three-year conflict that has cost 10,000 lives. “Who doesn’t want to help bring about peace?” Mr. Cohen asked.
    Mr. Cohen and Mr. Sater said they had not spoken to Mr. Trump about the proposal, and have no experience in foreign policy. Mr. Cohen is one of several Trump associates under scrutiny in an F.B.I. counterintelligence examination of links with Russia, according to law enforcement officials; he has denied any illicit connections.

    The two others involved in the effort have somewhat questionable pasts: Mr. Sater, 50, a Russian-American, pleaded guilty to a role in a stock manipulation scheme decades ago that involved the Mafia. Mr. Artemenko spent two and a half years in jail in Kiev in the early 2000s on embezzlement charges, later dropped, which he said had been politically motivated.

    While it is unclear if the White House will take the proposal seriously, the diplomatic freelancing has infuriated Ukrainian officials. Ukraine’s ambassador to the United States, Valeriy Chaly, said Mr. Artemenko “is not entitled to present any alternative peace plans on behalf of Ukraine to any foreign government, including the U.S. administration.”

    At a security conference in Munich on Friday, Mr. Poroshenko warned the West against “appeasement” of Russia, and some American experts say offering Russia any alternative to a two-year-old international agreement on Ukraine would be a mistake. The Trump administration has sent mixed signals about the conflict in Ukraine.
    Mr. Artemenko said he saw in Mr. Trump an opportunity to advocate a plan for peace in Ukraine — and help advance his own political career. Essentially, his plan would require the withdrawal of all Russian forces from eastern Ukraine. Ukrainian voters would decide in a referendum whether Crimea, the Ukrainian territory seized by Russia in 2014, would be leased to Russia for a term of 50 or 100 years.

    The Ukrainian ambassador, Mr. Chaly, rejected a lease of that kind. “It is a gross violation of the Constitution,” he said in written answers to questions from The Times. “Such ideas can be pitched or pushed through only by those openly or covertly representing Russian interests.

    Mr. Trump has sought to distance himself from Mr. Sater in recent years. If Mr. Sater “were sitting in the room right now,” Mr. Trump said in a 2013 deposition, “I really wouldn’t know what he looked like.”

    But Mr. Sater worked on real estate development deals with the Trump Organization on and off for at least a decade, even after his role in the stock manipulation scheme came to light.

    Mr. Sater, who was born in the Soviet Union and grew up in New York, served as an executive at a firm called Bayrock Group, two floors below the Trump Organization in Trump Tower, and was later a senior adviser to Mr. Trump.

    He said he had been working on a plan for a Trump Tower in Moscow with a Russian real estate developer as recently as the fall of 2015, one that he said had come to a halt because of Mr. Trump’s presidential campaign. (Mr. Cohen said the Trump Organization had received a letter of intent for a project in Moscow from a Russian real estate developer at that time but determined that the project was not feasible.)
    Trump has said he has had no business dealings with Russia but he has sought to build a Trump Tower in Moscow for a long time.

    He said Mr. Sater had given him the written proposal in a sealed envelope. When Mr. Cohen met with Mr. Trump in the Oval Office in early February, he said, he left the proposal in Mr. Flynn’s office.

    Mr. Cohen said he was waiting for a response when Mr. Flynn was forced from his post. Now Mr. Cohen, Mr. Sater and Mr. Artemenko are hoping a new national security adviser will take up their cause. On Friday the president wrote on Twitter that he had four new candidates for the job.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 02-21-2017 at 03:35 PM.



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  4. #3
    #FakePlans
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/19/u...ne-russia.html

    ...includes removing the democratically elected leader of the Ukraine...

  6. #5
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-...-felix-slater/

    Ukraine lawmaker who met Trump associates faces treason probe

    As the war between government forces and Russian-backed rebels continues in eastern Ukraine, a peace plan purportedly crafted by two associates of President Trump and a member of Ukraine’s parliament is causing an increasing backlash.

    Ukrainian Prosecutor-General Yuriy Lutsenko said Tuesday that an investigation would be opened against lawmaker Andrei Artemenko on possible treason charges.

    The New York Times reported Tuesday that Artemenko was suspected of conspiring with Russian officials to commit “subversive acts against Ukraine,” including pushing his proposal for a deal that would “legitimize the temporary occupation” of the Crimean peninsula.

    Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 by force, soon after Ukraine’s Russia-friendly president fled the country in the wake of massive street protests. The U.S. and its allies in Europe have refused to recognize the Russian annexation, and have levied harsh sanctions against Russia in response.

    President Vladimir Putin’s seizure of part of a neighboring country also prompted NATO to deploy military hardware and thousands more troops -- including about 4,000 U.S. service members -- to countries on the edge of Moscow’s sphere of political influence in eastern Europe.

    According to the Times, Artemenko flew into New York in January and met privately with Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen and a Russian-American man named Felix Sater. Sater, said the Times, was a business partner of Mr. Trump’s who was tasked as recently as 2015 with scouting business opportunities for Mr. Trump in Russia.
    More at link.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Proposal allegedly includes removing the democratically elected leader of the Ukraine

  8. #7
    I think this forum needs to get back to "Why the $#@! are we there to begin with" as opposed to the pro's and cons of Obama and Trump.

    $#@! Obama, $#@! Trump, $#@! Congress, $#@! the M.I.C. There is ONLY one answer that any forum member should be in agreement with..........



    And that answer is to bring them home. Now.



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