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Thread: Why Bombing Hiroshima Was Unjustified

  1. #1

    Why Bombing Hiroshima Was Unjustified



    For those who find reason and evidence difficult to listen to, here is the basic argument..

    The Japanese had already surrendered defeat and were ready to accept the terms laid out by the U.S., but with the caveat that they get to keep their Emperor... "If you like your Emperor, you get to keep your Emperor."

    The Japanese had essentially almost completely lost 67 of some of their largest cities and had massive bombing casualties in their capital city of Tokyo.

    Keeping their Emperor, however, apparently wasn't acceptable to the U.S.A.

    So the U.S. bombed Hiroshima, and before the Japanese even really knew what hit them, they bombed Nagasaki.

    Then, guess what? The U.S. let Japan keep their Emperor.

    So the Japanese had already surrendered under the terms that they ended up agreeing to after the bombing, before the bombing. So what did the bombing accomplish? Nothing.

    Definitely not justified.
    Last edited by dannno; 02-20-2017 at 05:18 AM.
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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post


    For those who find reason and evidence difficult to listen to, here is the basic argument..

    The Japanese had already surrendered defeat and were ready to accept the terms laid out by the U.S., but with the caveat that they get to keep their Emperor... "If you like your Emperor, you get to keep your Emperor."

    The Japanese had essentially almost completely lost 67 of some of their largest cities and had massive bombing casualties in their capital city of Tokyo.

    Keeping their Emperor, however, apparently wasn't acceptable to the U.S.A.

    So the U.S. bombed Hiroshima, and before the Japanese even really knew what hit them, they bombed Nagasaki.

    Then, guess what? The U.S. let Japan keep their Emperor.

    So the Japanese had already surrendered under the terms that they ended up agreeing to after the bombing, before the bombing. So what did the bombing accomplish? Nothing.

    Definitely not justified.
    General Eisenhower, republican, agreed with ^this assessment. Yet, for some stupid reason, modern republicans get offended if you don't agree with democrat Harry Truman on the idea that "Bombing Japan was the only way to save thousands of American lives."
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  4. #3
    They used those bombs on Japan to prove to Russia who the Super Power was.
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  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    So what did the bombing accomplish? Nothing.

    Definitely not justified.
    I'll wait for @TheTexan to confirm this was really unnecessary.

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  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    General Eisenhower, republican, agreed with ^this assessment. Yet, for some stupid reason, modern republicans get offended if you don't agree with democrat Harry Truman on the idea that "Bombing Japan was the only way to save thousands of American lives."
    AMEN.
    There is no spoon.

  7. #6
    LOL that like/dislike ratio on the video proves how stupid most of his viewers are

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    LOL that like/dislike ratio on the video proves how stupid most of his viewers are
    It seems like many of the dislikes came about because he was being a dick to the caller and not because of the opinion.I am reading many comments like this on the page with 100s of thumbs up

    Stefan, can you please calm down when people disagree with you or misunderstand you? When your goal is to convince them of your point, you should treat them like your own daughter when she is asking a question
    .

    linkshellvendor1 day ago
    The caller isnt insulting you or attacking you. Maybe it wasnt your intend but the whole thing seemed like you were being really hostile and more interested in making him look like an idiot instead of talking about it like for example, when he says he wonders what the reasoning of the president at that time was you simply say why should it matter and shut him down completely. why? it's an interesting question. Would it change things? no but that's why I watch your videos, to get an opinion on more than a single angle. Just try not to be so irritated when confronted with someone from another stand point next time.
    girshin1 day ago
    you were being a bit of a prick in the first few mins of this, why be so condescending?
    Reply 65

  9. #8
    Of course it was necessary, we set multiple world records with it
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  11. #9

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    It seems like many of the dislikes came about because he was being a dick to the caller and not because of the opinion.I am reading many comments like this on the page with 100s of thumbs up

    .
    Also saw some comments with 100s of thumbs up that were disagreeing and saying the bombing was justified. I don't think most of the thumbs down could come from how he was treating the guest, as I imagine most of his viewers would be familiar with his previous videos which already showcase his obvious social ineptitude.

  13. #11

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by navy-vet View Post
    ahhh BS!
    Exactly This ignores that the Japanese military prevented the civilian government from negotiating the surrender. The Soviets refused to relay the offer of peace talks to the US. The Japanese military tried to intercept and destroy the Emperor's surrender agreement.

    The Soviets were not impressed by the bomb because they had spies that had infiltrated the Manhattan Project and already knew about it. That explains Truman's not understanding why Stalin was impressed when Truman told him about the bomb.

    The Japanese military refused to believe a single bomb caused that much damage to Hiroshima, and it took the second one to convince them it was real.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles View Post
    The Japanese military refused to believe a single bomb caused that much damage to Hiroshima, and it took the second one to convince them it was real.
    You should not believe everything your grandma told you.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    You should not believe everything your grandma told you.
    How about the Soviet archives which became available for research in the 1990s?
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  17. #15
    If we didnt nuke Japan, we would have never won the cold war with Russia, and they wouldnt have interfered with our elections, and Trump sadly would never have become President
    Last edited by TheTexan; 02-22-2017 at 10:49 AM.
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  18. #16
    War is hell and should be. I see no reason to be kind or just or fair of humane in war. You kill your enemy until he goes tits-up. To that end I cannot say I have any big problem with Hiroshima. Nagasaki, OTOH, was a bit different, as Japan was suing for peace at that point, as I recall.

    That all said, there were certainly other things we could have done. A blockade would have starved them out. Continued saturation bombing raids would have given added incentive for Japan to cut the crap and throw in the towel. Fire storms have a way of getting people a new perspective.

    The greater picture, going back into the 30s and perhaps earlier, is not quite clear to my eyes. However, if we assume that the stooge Roosevelt was in fact guilty of provoking Japan prior to Pearl, a whole other perspective comes to the surface; one of extreme and very evil chicanery, which should surprise nobody, except perhaps progressives and other, similar nitwits. Assuming this, had we not been up to such perfidy, Japan may have confined its own to the Southeast Asian theater. Their mass slaughter of the Chinese was none of our business and would have not lasted in any event.

    The globalists have by their hands wrought this horror-show of a world and foisted it upon every man walking the earth.

    Nonetheless, the Japanese were guilty plenty and probably earned those bombs, given those things to which they unjustly subjected the people of the Pacific Basin.
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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    They used those bombs on Japan to prove to Russia who the Super Power was.
    Didn't stop the formation of the Warsaw Pact. And then four years later Russia had the bomb. So if that was the reason, it was not only a terrible reason to murder 250,000+ people, it also failed.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    War is hell and should be. I see no reason to be kind or just or fair of humane in war. You kill your enemy until he goes tits-up. To that end I cannot say I have any big problem with Hiroshima. Nagasaki, OTOH, was a bit different, as Japan was suing for peace at that point, as I recall.

    That all said, there were certainly other things we could have done. A blockade would have starved them out. Continued saturation bombing raids would have given added incentive for Japan to cut the crap and throw in the towel. Fire storms have a way of getting people a new perspective.

    The greater picture, going back into the 30s and perhaps earlier, is not quite clear to my eyes. However, if we assume that the stooge Roosevelt was in fact guilty of provoking Japan prior to Pearl, a whole other perspective comes to the surface; one of extreme and very evil chicanery, which should surprise nobody, except perhaps progressives and other, similar nitwits. Assuming this, had we not been up to such perfidy, Japan may have confined its own to the Southeast Asian theater. Their mass slaughter of the Chinese was none of our business and would have not lasted in any event.

    The globalists have by their hands wrought this horror-show of a world and foisted it upon every man walking the earth.

    Nonetheless, the Japanese were guilty plenty and probably earned those bombs, given those things to which they unjustly subjected the people of the Pacific Basin.
    Collectivism justifies all kinds of things, doesn't it? All Germans are Nazis, all Russians are communists, and all Americans are fans of unlimited and unending wars on terrorism, therefore we are all legitimate targets for random murder, right?

    I'm sorry but your argument is the exact same of collectivist idiocy that justifies everything from progressivism to terrorism.

    Here is the irony. When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor they intentionally avoided bombing Pearl City, despite the fact that it was RIGHT THERE waiting to be destroyed. Americans on the other hand? Yeah, slaughtering 250,000+ people is nothing.
    Last edited by PierzStyx; 02-22-2017 at 06:23 PM.

  22. #19
    I generally hate Molyneux. But even a broken watch is right twice a day. he is here too.

    The U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey group, assigned by President Truman to study the air attacks on Japan, produced a report in July of 1946 that concluded (52-56):

    Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945 and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.

    General (and later president) Dwight Eisenhower – then Supreme Commander of all Allied Forces, and the officer who created most of America’s WWII military plans for Europe and Japan – said:

    The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.

    Newsweek, 11/11/63, Ike on Ike

    Eisenhower also noted (pg. 380):

    In [July] 1945… Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. …the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.

    During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of ‘face’. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude….

    Admiral William Leahy – the highest ranking member of the U.S. military from 1942 until retiring in 1949, who was the first de facto Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and who was at the center of all major American military decisions in World War II – wrote (pg. 441):

    It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.

    The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.

    General Douglas MacArthur agreed (pg. 65, 70-71):

    MacArthur’s views about the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were starkly different from what the general public supposed …. When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor.

    Moreover (pg. 512):

    The Potsdam declaration in July, demand[ed] that Japan surrender unconditionally or face ‘prompt and utter destruction.’ MacArthur was appalled. He knew that the Japanese would never renounce their emperor, and that without him an orderly transition to peace would be impossible anyhow, because his people would never submit to Allied occupation unless he ordered it. Ironically, when the surrender did come, it was conditional, and the condition was a continuation of the imperial reign. Had the General’s advice been followed, the resort to atomic weapons at Hiroshima and Nagasaki might have been unnecessary.

    Similarly, Assistant Secretary of War John McLoy noted (pg. 500):

    I have always felt that if, in our ultimatum to the Japanese government issued from Potsdam [in July 1945], we had referred to the retention of the emperor as a constitutional monarch and had made some reference to the reasonable accessibility of raw materials to the future Japanese government, it would have been accepted. Indeed, I believe that even in the form it was delivered, there was some disposition on the part of the Japanese to give it favorable consideration. When the war was over I arrived at this conclusion after talking with a number of Japanese officials who had been closely associated with the decision of the then Japanese government, to reject the ultimatum, as it was presented. I believe we missed the opportunity of effecting a Japanese surrender, completely satisfactory to us, without the necessity of dropping the bombs.

    Under Secretary of the Navy Ralph Bird said:

    I think that the Japanese were ready for peace, and they already had approached the Russians and, I think, the Swiss. And that suggestion of [giving] a warning [of the atomic bomb] was a face-saving proposition for them, and one that they could have readily accepted.

    ***

    In my opinion, the Japanese war was really won before we ever used the atom bomb. Thus, it wouldn’t have been necessary for us to disclose our nuclear position and stimulate the Russians to develop the same thing much more rapidly than they would have if we had not dropped the bomb.

    War Was Really Won Before We Used A-Bomb, U.S. News and World Report, 8/15/60, pg. 73-75.

    He also noted (pg. 144-145, 324):

    It definitely seemed to me that the Japanese were becoming weaker and weaker. They were surrounded by the Navy. They couldn’t get any imports and they couldn’t export anything. Naturally, as time went on and the war developed in our favor it was quite logical to hope and expect that with the proper kind of a warning the Japanese would then be in a position to make peace, which would have made it unnecessary for us to drop the bomb and have had to bring Russia in.

    General Curtis LeMay, the tough cigar-smoking Army Air Force “hawk,” stated publicly shortly before the nuclear bombs were dropped on Japan:

    The war would have been over in two weeks. . . . The atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.

    The Vice Chairman of the U.S. Bombing Survey Paul Nitze wrote (pg. 36-37, 44-45):

    [I] concluded that even without the atomic bomb, Japan was likely to surrender in a matter of months. My own view was that Japan would capitulate by November 1945.

    ***

    Even without the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it seemed highly unlikely, given what we found to have been the mood of the Japanese government, that a U.S. invasion of the islands [scheduled for November 1, 1945] would have been necessary.

    Deputy Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence Ellis Zacharias wrote:

    Just when the Japanese were ready to capitulate, we went ahead and introduced to the world the most devastating weapon it had ever seen and, in effect, gave the go-ahead to Russia to swarm over Eastern Asia.

    Washington decided that Japan had been given its chance and now it was time to use the A-bomb.

    I submit that it was the wrong decision. It was wrong on strategic grounds. And it was wrong on humanitarian grounds.

    Ellis Zacharias, How We Bungled the Japanese Surrender, Look, 6/6/50, pg. 19-21.

    Brigadier General Carter Clarke – the military intelligence officer in charge of preparing summaries of intercepted Japanese cables for President Truman and his advisors – said (pg. 359):

    When we didn’t need to do it, and we knew we didn’t need to do it, and they knew that we knew we didn’t need to do it, we used them as an experiment for two atomic bombs.

    Many other high-level military officers concurred. For example:

    The commander in chief of the U.S. Fleet and Chief of Naval Operations, Ernest J. King, stated that the naval blockade and prior bombing of Japan in March of 1945, had rendered the Japanese helpless and that the use of the atomic bomb was both unnecessary and immoral. Also, the opinion of Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz was reported to have said in a press conference on September 22, 1945, that “The Admiral took the opportunity of adding his voice to those insisting that Japan had been defeated before the atomic bombing and Russia’s entry into the war.” In a subsequent speech at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945, Admiral Nimitz stated “The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war.” It was learned also that on or about July 20, 1945, General Eisenhower had urged Truman, in a personal visit, not to use the atomic bomb. Eisenhower’s assessment was “It wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing . . . to use the atomic bomb, to kill and terrorize civilians, without even attempting [negotiations], was a double crime.” Eisenhower also stated that it wasn’t necessary for Truman to “succumb” to [the tiny handful of people putting pressure on the president to drop atom bombs on Japan.]

    British officers were of the same mind. For example, General Sir Hastings Ismay, Chief of Staff to the British Minister of Defence, said to Prime Minister Churchill that “when Russia came into the war against Japan, the Japanese would probably wish to get out on almost any terms short of the dethronement of the Emperor.”

    On hearing that the atomic test was successful, Ismay’s private reaction was one of “revulsion.”


    When Douglas MacArthur thinks you've gone too far then you've definitely gone too far.

    The worst and most evil reality of this? Japan's only condition for surrender before Russia entered Manchuria was they would get to keep the position of Emperor, whether he had power or not. America demanded an unconditional surrender, slaughtered hundreds of thousands of civilians, and then kept the Emperor anyway!

    There is no justification for atomic weapons. Not even a free market one.

    ROTHBARD from War, Peace and the State:

    It has often been maintained, and especially by conservatives, that the development of the horrendous modern weapons of mass murder (nuclear weapons, rockets, germ warfare, etc.) is only a difference of degree rather than kind from the simpler weapons of an earlier era. Of course, one answer to this is that when the degree is the number of human lives, the difference is a very big one.4 But another answer that the libertarian is particularly equipped to give is that while the bow and arrow and even the rifle can be pinpointed, if the will be there, against actual criminals, modern nuclear weapons cannot. Here is a crucial difference in kind. Of course, the bow and arrow could be used for aggressive purposes, but it could also be pinpointed to use only against aggressors. Nuclear weapons, even "conventional" aerial bombs, cannot be. These weapons are ipso facto engines of indiscriminate mass destruction. (The only exception would be the extremely rare case where a mass of people who were all criminals inhabited a vast geographical area.) We must, therefore, conclude that the use of nuclear or similar weapons, or the threat thereof, is a sin and a crime against humanity for which there can be no justification.

    This is why the old cliché no longer holds that it is not the arms but the will to use them that is significant in judging matters of war and peace. For it is precisely the characteristic of modern weapons that they cannot be used selectively, cannot be used in a libertarian manner. Therefore, their very existence must be condemned, and nuclear disarmament becomes a good to be pursued for its own sake. And if we will indeed use our strategic intelligence, we will see that such disarmament is not only a good, but the highest political good that we can pursue in the modern world. For just as murder is a more heinous crime against another man than larceny, so mass murder—indeed murder so widespread as to threaten human civilization and human survival itself—is the worst crime that any man could possibly commit. And that crime is now imminent. And the forestalling of massive annihilation is far more important, in truth, than the demunicipalization of garbage disposal, as worthwhile as that may be. Or are libertarians going to wax properly indignant about price control or the income tax, and yet shrug their shoulders at or even positively advocate the ultimate crime of mass murder?

    If nuclear warfare is totally illegitimate even for individuals defending themselves against criminal assault, how much more so is nuclear or even "conventional" warfare between States!
    Last edited by PierzStyx; 02-22-2017 at 06:32 PM.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    They used those bombs on Japan to prove to Russia who the Super Power insane was.
    ftfy

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    War is hell and should be. I see no reason to be kind or just or fair of humane in war. You kill your enemy until he goes tits-up. To that end I cannot say I have any big problem with Hiroshima. Nagasaki, OTOH, was a bit different, as Japan was suing for peace at that point, as I recall.

    That all said, there were certainly other things we could have done. A blockade would have starved them out. Continued saturation bombing raids would have given added incentive for Japan to cut the crap and throw in the towel. Fire storms have a way of getting people a new perspective.

    The greater picture, going back into the 30s and perhaps earlier, is not quite clear to my eyes. However, if we assume that the stooge Roosevelt was in fact guilty of provoking Japan prior to Pearl, a whole other perspective comes to the surface; one of extreme and very evil chicanery, which should surprise nobody, except perhaps progressives and other, similar nitwits. Assuming this, had we not been up to such perfidy, Japan may have confined its own to the Southeast Asian theater. Their mass slaughter of the Chinese was none of our business and would have not lasted in any event.

    The globalists have by their hands wrought this horror-show of a world and foisted it upon every man walking the earth.

    Nonetheless, the Japanese were guilty plenty and probably earned those bombs, given those things to which they unjustly subjected the people of the Pacific Basin.
    I'm with you on that. But I can't justify bombing civilian centers with that (i.e. Hiroshima and Nagisaki). At some point, it's good to be reasonable in our endeavours to win a war (assuming it's just-which the war in Japan wasn't-but we'll grant that to you for the sake of this brief exchange).
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  25. #22
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  26. #23
    Admiral Chester Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet, sent out the following public statement: The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan."

    General (and later president) Dwight Eisenhower – then Supreme Commander of all Allied Forces, and the officer who created most of America’s WWII military plans for Europe and Japan – said, "The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.""Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of ‘face’.

    General Curtis LeMay, the tough cigar-smoking Army Air Force “hawk,” stated publicly shortly before the nuclear bombs were dropped on Japan, "The war would have been over in two weeks. . . . The atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all."

    The Vice Chairman of the U.S. Bombing Survey Paul Nitze wrote (pg. 36-37, 44-45), "[I] concluded that even without the atomic bomb, Japan was likely to surrender in a matter of months. My own view was that Japan would capitulate by November 1945. ... Even without the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it seemed highly unlikely, given what we found to have been the mood of the Japanese government, that a U.S. invasion of the islands [scheduled for November 1, 1945] would have been necessary."

    Deputy Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence Ellis Zacharias, "Just when the Japanese were ready to capitulate, we went ahead and introduced to the world the most devastating weapon it had ever seen and, in effect, gave the go-ahead to Russia to swarm over Eastern Asia. ... I submit that it was the wrong decision. It was wrong on strategic grounds. And it was wrong on humanitarian grounds."

    Brigadier General Carter Clarke – the military intelligence officer in charge of preparing summaries of intercepted Japanese cables for President Truman and his advisors – said , "When we didn’t need to do it, and we knew we didn’t need to do it, and they knew that we knew we didn’t need to do it, we used them as an experiment for two atomic bombs."

    Admiral William Leahy – the highest ranking member of the U.S. military from 1942 until retiring in 1949, who was the first de facto Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and who was at the center of all major American military decisions in World War II – wrote , "It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons."

    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  27. #24
    We proved that our country is capable of nuking a country for basically no reason, and now other countries dont $#@! with us. CUS WE CRAZY

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterr...errence_theory
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    We proved that our country is capable of nuking a country for basically no reason, and now other countries dont $#@! with us. CUS WE CRAZY

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterr...errence_theory
    Can we be reasoned with?

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Very interesting video. Thanks.

    Watching those dozen or so guys that were in the thick of it, I'm thinking to myself, "OMG. Every one of those guys is John McCain."
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Can we be reasoned with?
    That would defeat the purpose
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    That would defeat the purpose
    Very well. Welcome to the club.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Collectivism justifies all kinds of things, doesn't it? All Germans are Nazis, all Russians are communists, and all Americans are fans of unlimited and unending wars on terrorism, therefore we are all legitimate targets for random murder, right?
    You are correct, but ignore the other sides of that many-faceted die.

    The practical realities of open warfare deny men many of the luxuries in which your words imply we should indulge ourselves. If, one day, our technologies allow us to separate the innocent from the guilty, by some priori means, and treat them with precise difference from those deserving of our murderous acts, then I will sit with you in gleeful celebration of that accomplishment for it will be perhaps the greatest of all time.

    Until then, those who threaten us from behind the skirts of little girls are either to be threatened, or acted against in the context of humanity incapable of any practical means of separating the ones from the others. The choice, then, is to perish or retaliate by whatever means are at hand. Contrary to what I have come to find to be very popular belief, the lives of little girls are no more to be valued by the cold galaxies than those of old white men. Life is life.

    You also so assume too much in terms of mindset, committing the same transgression against which you seem to complain. Not all Americans viewed all Germans as NAZIs, nor all Japanese as Japs.

    I'm sorry but your argument is the exact same of collectivist idiocy that justifies everything from progressivism to terrorism.
    No, it is not. But you make the accusation: now make the demonstration. I will gladly clarify the differences on your points of obvious confusion, or you will make clear where I have indeed erred in the manners you specify and I will amend my words to make clear that which lead you to rightly perceive an intent that is not present.

    Here is the irony. When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor they intentionally avoided bombing Pearl City, despite the fact that it was RIGHT THERE waiting to be destroyed. Americans on the other hand? Yeah, slaughtering 250,000+ people is nothing.
    A valid point. However, it presupposes that war should be in some way "civil", "decent", or perhaps "humane". These are assumptions to which I cannot subscribe precisely because they sanitize the notion of war, an error of character and intellect that is grave, even if the underlying motives are understandable and even laudable.

    In my view, all war should be outright, merciless, and cruel beyond all human tolerance, for that is the only possible path toward a common attitude that says "NO!" to warfare under all but the most immediately dire and unavoidable circumstances. Let no man be able to sit comfortably in his home, his children safe, while those who purport to wage just war send other human beings to their horrific demise. Let all talk of "glorious victories" fall into extinction, having become a cry of grave and immediate risk to any political office holder advocating such depthless idiocy. Let all thought of warfare, much less its consideration, send tremors of reticence and fear into the hearts of all men, political figures first and foremost, that it be given its proper relegation in the minds of men as a thing to be avoided as nearly any cost, rather than one into which to run headlong with the eagerness of a young boy about to encounter his first sexual congress with the "woman of his dreams."

    I disagree with nearly anyone on this specific point, even my little brother who is perhaps the most accomplished operating military man in the US armed forces today. His opinion to me was that rules of war are good and do not prevent him from doing his job. It is a discussion that is ongoing and in need of further elaboration, one day, assuming he survives the situations into which he is regularly thrust.

    Sanitizing war in any way only provides the excuse for tolerating it where people should be literally out and murdering those sending their fellows into it. Ultimately speaking, the Japanese people, as well as those of America, Germany, France, Poland, and all the other nations of the earth are responsible for the actions of their governments. Damn their laziness, will to ignorance, and other corruptions that drive them to so much as tolerate the criminal vermin who perpetrate their endless felonies in the colored name of "the people", or whomever/whatever lie-du-jour they employ for the sake of getting buy-in.

    The human mental landscape is hopelessly polluted with bull$#@! and other noises. Men are corrupted such that they tolerate the intolerable, praise that which is damnable, hate the virtuous, and generally think, feel, and behave in precisely the opposite ways in which decency, goodness, intelligence, and propriety would recommend. It is this vile and common corruption of men that has lead the world to its currently sad pass. It takes two to tango. Tyrants do not rise to prominence on their own; they are allowed and even encouraged and demanded to ascend under the will to believe what they want. How else did Hitler come to power? He didn't pull national control and power out of his $#@!. He told the lies people wanted to hear and they lined up. Those who didn't bite failed to act against him, by and large.

    I don't lay all the blame on "the people", but a goodly portion of it does, in fact, belong there.

    Let war be so horrific that even the most corrupted among us are unable to hide behind pretty lies that tell them it's all for a good cause, it is necessary, it is just or unavoidable, and that everything will work out where the man of proper character knows differently. Otherwise, let the corrupted be consumed in flame, for that is the fate they tempt.

    In my opinion.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The human mental landscape is hopelessly polluted with bull$#@! and other noises. Men are corrupted such that they tolerate the intolerable, praise that which is damnable, hate the virtuous, and generally think, feel, and behave in precisely the opposite ways in which decency, goodness, intelligence, and propriety would recommend. It is this vile and common corruption of men that has lead the world to its currently sad pass. It takes two to tango. Tyrants do not rise to prominence on their own; they are allowed and even encouraged and demanded to ascend under the will to believe what they want. How else did Hitler come to power? He didn't pull national control and power out of his $#@!. He told the lies people wanted to hear and they lined up. Those who didn't bite failed to act against him, by and large.

    I don't lay all the blame on "the people", but a goodly portion of it does, in fact, belong there.
    People simply show a little bit of "flexibility" and you are all out against them. Ignorance is a bliss. Nobody wants to listen to your ramblings about the absolutes. We are flexible and nobody minds taking it up the pooper a little if it means brighter days are just around the corner.

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