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Thread: The Leakers Who Exposed Gen. Flynn’s Lie Committed Serious — and Wholly Justified — Felonies

  1. #1

    The Leakers Who Exposed Gen. Flynn’s Lie Committed Serious — and Wholly Justified — Felonies

    Glenn Greenwald
    February 14 2017, 12:31 p.m.

    President Trump’s national security adviser, Gen. Michael Flynn, was forced to resign on Monday night as a result of getting caught lying about whether he discussed sanctions in a December telephone call with a Russian diplomat. The only reason the public learned about Flynn’s lie is because someone inside the U.S. government violated the criminal law by leaking the contents of Flynn’s intercepted communications.

    In the spectrum of crimes involving the leaking of classified information, publicly revealing the contents of SIGINT — signals intelligence — is one of the most serious felonies. Indeed, journalists (and all other nongovernmental citizens) can be prosecuted under federal law for disclosing classified information only under the narrowest circumstances; reflecting how serious SIGINT is considered to be, one of those circumstances includes leaking the contents of intercepted communications, as defined this way by 18 § 798 of the U.S. Code:

    Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates … or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes … any classified information … obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government … shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

    That Flynn lied about what he said to Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak was first revealed by Washington Post columnist David Ignatius, who has built his career on repeating what his CIA sources tell him. In his January 12 column, Ignatius wrote: “According to a senior U.S. government official, Flynn phoned Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak several times on Dec. 29, the day the Obama administration announced the expulsion of 35 Russian officials as well as other measures in retaliation for the hacking.”

    That “senior U.S. government official” committed a serious felony by leaking to Ignatius the communication activities of Flynn. Similar and even more extreme crimes were committed by what the Washington Post called “nine current and former officials, who were in senior positions at multiple agencies at the time of the calls,” who told the paper for its February 9 article that “Flynn privately discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with that country’s ambassador to the United States during the month before President Trump took office, contrary to public assertions by Trump officials.” The New York Times, also citing anonymous U.S. officials, provided even more details about the contents of Flynn’s telephone calls.

    That all of these officials committed serious felonies can hardly be disputed. In January, CNN reported that Flynn’s calls with the Russians “were captured by routine U.S. eavesdropping targeting the Russian diplomats.” That means that the contents of those calls were “obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of [a] foreign government,” which in turn means that anyone who discloses them — or reports them to the public — is guilty of a felony under the statute.

    Yet very few people are calling for a criminal investigation or the prosecution of these leakers, nor demanding the leakers step forward and “face the music” — for very good reason: The officials leaking this information acted justifiably, despite the fact that they violated the law. That’s because the leaks revealed that a high government official, Gen. Flynn, blatantly lied to the public about a material matter — his conversations with Russian diplomats — and the public has the absolute right to know this.

    This episode underscores a critical point: the mere fact that an act is illegal does not mean it is unjust or even deserving of punishment. Oftentimes, the most just acts are precisely the ones that the law prohibits.

    That’s particularly true of whistleblowers — i.e., those who reveal information the law makes it a crime to reveal, when doing so is the only way to demonstrate to the public that powerful officials are acting wrongfully or deceitfully. In those cases, we should cheer those who do it even though they are undertaking exactly those actions which the criminal law prohibits.

    This Flynn episode underscores another critical point: the motives of leakers are irrelevant. It’s very possible — indeed, likely — that the leakers here were not acting with benevolent motives. Nobody with a straight face can claim that lying to the public is regarded in official Washington as some sort of mortal sin; if anything, the contrary is true: it’s seen as a job requirement.

    Moreover, Gen. Flynn has many enemies throughout the intelligence and defense community. The same is true, of course, of Donald Trump; recall that just a few weeks ago, Democratic Sen. Chuck Schumer warned Trump that he was being “really dumb” to criticize the intelligence community because “they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you.”

    It’s very possible — I’d say likely — that the motive here was vindictive rather than noble. Whatever else is true, this is a case where the intelligence community, through strategic (and illegal) leaks, destroyed one of its primary adversaries in the Trump White House.

    But no matter. What matters is not the motive of the leaker but the effects of the leak. Any leak that results in the exposure of high-level wrongdoing — as this one did — should be praised, not scorned and punished.

    It is, of course, bizarre to watch this principle now so widely celebrated. Over the last eight years, President Obama implemented the most vindictive and aggressive war on whistleblowers in all of U.S. history. As Leonard Downie, one of the editors at the Washington Post during the Watergate investigation, put it in a special report: “The [Obama] administration’s war on leaks and other efforts to control information are the most aggressive I’ve seen since the Nixon administration.”
    ...
    https://theintercept.com/2017/02/14/...fied-felonies/
    Last edited by robert68; 02-14-2017 at 02:19 PM.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by robert68 View Post
    Glenn Greenwald
    February 14 2017, 12:31 p.m.
    The deep state coup is going down fighting.
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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Athan View Post
    The deep state coup is going down fighting.
    IMO he wasn't competent enough to take them on, even if he had half good motives. He had to know the phone calls were wiretapped etc...
    Last edited by robert68; 02-14-2017 at 02:08 PM.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by robert68 View Post
    IMO he wasn't competent enough to take them on, even if he had half good motives. He had to know the phone calls were wiretapped etc...
    No joke, we are going to have to find a real life Jason Borne to finish the curb stomp.
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  6. #5
    Dangerous territory here. Obviously Greenwald is looking at this from the Snowden/whistle-blower perspective, but there is an opposing danger. Government has been tapping for a long time, but they have been fairly discreet. But what is the precedent being set here? That government can now use that power for petty political purposes? Will this lead to similar abuse like the Obama IRS targeting of political opponents?

    This sets the stage for government to attack, destroy or jail political opponents based upon private communications. What could be released to the media? What kinds of prosecutions could result?

    It’s very possible — I’d say likely — that the motive here was vindictive rather than noble. Whatever else is true, this is a case where the intelligence community, through strategic (and illegal) leaks, destroyed one of its primary adversaries in the Trump White House.
    Rather than noble...that says it all.
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  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Dangerous territory here. Obviously Greenwald is looking at this from the Snowden/whistle-blower perspective, but there is an opposing danger. Government has been tapping for a long time, but they have been fairly discreet. But what is the precedent being set here? That government can now use that power for petty political purposes? Will this lead to similar abuse like the Obama IRS targeting of political opponents?

    This sets the stage for government to attack, destroy or jail political opponents based upon private communications. What could be released to the media? What kinds of prosecutions could result?



    Rather than noble...that says it all.
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  8. #7
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    It was not noble to leak this to the press, because Greenwald calls it "wrongdoing". The only "wrongdoing" was Flynn not telling trump he discussed sanctions with the russian ambassador. No laws were broken, no people died or were put in danger. No civil rights were violated. Nothing. It was purely an office politics issue, and nothing else.

  9. #8
    Apparently the surveillance state is suddenly a good thing when it helps your particular brand of politic.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I never have enough +rep
    Covered.
    There is no spoon.

  12. #10
    Psssht, "they" are listening to and recording all electronic communications.
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  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Dangerous territory here. Obviously Greenwald is looking at this from the Snowden/whistle-blower perspective, but there is an opposing danger. Government has been tapping for a long time, but they have been fairly discreet. But what is the precedent being set here? That government can now use that power for petty political purposes? Will this lead to similar abuse like the Obama IRS targeting of political opponents?

    This sets the stage for government to attack, destroy or jail political opponents based upon private communications. What could be released to the media?
    What kinds of prosecutions could result?

    Rather than noble...that says it all.
    That wouldn't be what he wrote in the article:
    But no matter. What matters is not the motive of the leaker but the effects of the leak. Any leak that results in the exposure of high-level wrongdoing — as this one did — should be praised, not scorned and punished.
    with "high-level wrongdoing" in this case:
    That’s because the leaks revealed that a high government official, Gen. Flynn, blatantly lied to the public about a material matter — his conversations with Russian diplomats — and the public has the absolute right to know this
    Last edited by robert68; 02-16-2017 at 11:08 PM.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by robert68 View Post
    However, why he thinks the "leaking" wrt Michael Flynn has exposed "high-level wrongdoing" isn't clear to me.
    Yeah, I'm with you on that.

    So what the incoming administration discussed sanctions with Russia? I can see how *maybe* *technically* an untried 1799 law possibly could have been violate, but to me it's still extremely petty. Just like kicking out Russian diplomats for some fake hacking reasons.

    I have to know why Flynn lied to Trump. That is the most vexing piece of this whole story to me. Was he afraid of the media using his private relationship with Russia to continue to pile on the Russia narrative?

    Of course the Obama administration also new about the sanctions appeasement conversation Flynn had. It also sounds like the Trump admin was informed of it too, but didn't believe Flynn lied about it (cause they didn't get the NSA recording to back it up).

    Why this guy lied? He had to have known he was being recorded.

    My best guess on why he lied, he was an Obama plant. The entire episode from the petty sanctions for hacking to Flynn's coziness with Trump, all an elaborate ruse to sabotage Trump.

    Obama kept his distance from Flynn the spy the entire time he served in the Obama admin as the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency. They never spoke face to face according to Flynn.

    WHY did Obama promote Flynn's spy career?

    This is a deep state insurance policy against whoever came after Obama. I am positive that there are many such insurance policies all over the place. Flynn was too easy of a target, his views way too close to staunch conservative views for such a high level appointment in the Obama admin. He was fired for contradicting Obama's "JV team" quote wrt to ISIS. Too easy.

    Here is a good place for my fellow sleuths to start. This story sounds like it's ripe for some classic RPF exposure.

    http://thememoryhole2.org/blog/flynn-intel




    And right off the bat, this lol wow!!!


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._James_Woolsey_Jr.

    Woolsey is one of the people who profiles on Flynn's missing website. None other than Director of the CIA for 2 years under Bill Clinton's admin.

    Notice how the same type of relationship existed between this spook Flynn and Obama and between the other spook Woolsey and Clinton? Things that make you go Hmmmm...
    Relationship with Bill Clinton[edit]

    As Director of the CIA, Woolsey was notable for having had limited access to President Bill Clinton. According to journalist Richard Miniter:
    Never once in his two-year tenure did CIA director James Woolsey ever have a one-on-one meeting with Clinton. Even semi-private meetings were rare. They only happened twice. Woolsey told me: "It wasn't that I had a bad relationship with the president. It just didn't exist."[3]
    Last edited by newbitech; 02-15-2017 at 07:16 PM.

  15. #13
    If We are concerned with honesty and accountability.........


    Last edited by Schifference; 02-15-2017 at 07:27 PM.

  16. #14
    also, this guy.

    https://www.uschamber.com/moderator-mike-coomes

    COO of Flynn group. Cyber Security for DOD... mmhmmm

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    If We are concerned with honesty and accountability.........
    It's over.

    Let it go.

    Trump is President. Nobody cares how honest and accountable Donald Trump is compared to Obama.
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  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    It's over.

    Let it go.

    Trump is President. Nobody cares how honest and accountable Donald Trump is compared to Obama.
    I care.

    Also you lose.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by robert68 View Post
    Glenn Greenwald
    February 14 2017, 12:31 p.m.



    https://theintercept.com/2017/02/14/...fied-felonies/
    Glenn has lost his head. We don't even have a public transcript. Anonymous butthurt Obama appointees that have lost their jobs or are hold-overs soon to lose their jobs are making anonymous claims to anti-trump outlets. Just a few weeks ago he was rightly condemning the MSM over the completely fake news unsubstantiated Russian Dossier. He also condemned the MSM on the Russian hacking the election narrative.

    No laws were broken. If I were Flynn, i would of told the Russian ambassador that Obama is a weak and incompetent loser reacting to his legacy being destroyed in less than a month. Publish that transcript NSA COWARDS!
    Last edited by spudea; 02-15-2017 at 09:13 PM.
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  21. #18
    If only Trump's people had listened to the DNC and used the "Snowden approved" signal app after they got hacked. It has encrypted end to end text and voice.

    Although I assume it's only a matter of time before all phones have an un-encrypted constant audio feed right back to big brother.
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  22. #19
    Apparently people seem to have forgotten that Obama's last two months in office saw democrats doing practically everything they could to provoke Russians into making hostile moves. Maybe we weren't at Cuban Missile Crisis levels, but nonetheless most folks who were against war with Russia were relieved to see Obama leave office, finally, after 8 weeks of poking the bear in the eye.

    I'm glad somebody was talking to them so as to not give the Russians the impression that everyone here in the USA has gone bat $#@! crazy. Maybe I'm giving Flynn too much credit, but did anyone see others trying to prevent a war? Maybe I missed other efforts at diplomacy when the news ticker was 24/7

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    This is getting silly.
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    It started silly.
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  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Glenn has lost his head. We don't even have a public transcript. Anonymous butthurt Obama appointees that have lost their jobs or are hold-overs soon to lose their jobs are making anonymous claims to anti-trump outlets. Just a few weeks ago he was rightly condemning the MSM over the completely fake news unsubstantiated Russian Dossier. He also condemned the MSM on the Russian hacking the election narrative.

    No laws were broken. If I were Flynn, i would of told the Russian ambassador that Obama is a weak and incompetent loser reacting to his legacy being destroyed in less than a month. Publish that transcript NSA COWARDS!
    But it wasn't Obama appointees who fired Flynn, it was Trump.

    Also, he was quite the fake news producer himself:
    The Islamic Republic of Iran is the world’s leading state sponsor of terrorism and engages in and supports violent activities that destabilize the Middle East. This behavior seems continuous despite the very favorable deal given to Iran by the Obama Administration...
    Iran’s senior leadership continues to threaten the United States and our allies. Since the Obama Administration agreed to the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action with Iran in 2015, Iran’s belligerent and lawless behavior has only increased.
    ...
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...l-t-flynn-iran
    Last edited by robert68; 02-16-2017 at 07:07 AM.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by robert68 View Post
    But it wasn't Obama appointees who fired Flynn, it was Trump.
    Nobody fired Flynn.

    Strike that. Obama fired Flynn.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    If only Trump's people had listened to the DNC and used the "Snowden approved" signal app after they got hacked. It has encrypted end to end text and voice.

    Although I assume it's only a matter of time before all phones have an un-encrypted constant audio feed right back to big brother.
    Why even talk on the phone with anyone. Wasn't he in Russia a few weeks before the phone chat? and why lie about? This makes no sense at all.

  26. #23
    Clinton leakers: Awesome. "Russia- can you hack more Clinton emails and release them?"

    Trump leakers: criminals.

    "The leaks are real but the news is fake".
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 02-16-2017 at 12:41 PM.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Clinton leakers: Awesome. "Russia- can you hack more Clinton emails and release them?"

    Trump leakers: criminals.
    Clinton Leakers: evidence of illegal actions against the USA exposed publicly.
    Trump leakers: conjecture of political consequences of legal actions undisclosed but speculated behind closed doors with fake media.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Clinton leakers: Awesome. "Russia- can you hack more Clinton emails and release them?"

    Trump leakers: criminals.

    "The leaks are real but the news is fake".
    Clinton leakers: individuals disclosing everything, as in in all emails, in massive dumps to further full transparency, and risking their lives and freedom to inform the American people.
    Neocons/leftists/MSM/CIA/NSA on Clinton leakers: criminals, lock them up give them the Manning treatment, crucify Assange

    Trump leakers: no transparency, just tiny carefully selected chosen leaks to sabotage diplomatic efforts, subvert presidential policy, and replace it with secretive agencies' desires to escalate tensions, and provoke conflict, and risking nothing as their identifies are protected by the intelligence community.
    Neocons/leftists/MSM/CIA/NSA on Trump leakers: heroes

    The same CIA/NSA/MIC that wants to destroy Manning, Snowden, Assange and the rest of the whistle-blowers, label themselves heroes when they place carefully selected leaks for the ulterior purpose of commandeering foreign policy away from elected leaders and sabotaging diplomacy.

    The CIA/NSA controlled "leaks" are not any full disclosure for the purpose of providing truth and transparency to the American people. To the contrary, these intentionally specially chosen surreptitious selective "leaked" information by rogue agencies trying to commandeer the US government for the purpose of eliminating a critic, manipulating and controlling US policy, and thwart any contrary will of the American people.

    It is extremely dangerous precedent. These are not merely leaks for transparency. These are an attempted covert coup by rogue secretive unaccountable agencies to hijack the government policy and control foreign relations.
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  30. #26

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...98588201594880

    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by newbitech View Post
    Clinton Leakers: evidence of illegal actions against the USA exposed publicly.
    Trump leakers: conjecture of political consequences of legal actions undisclosed but speculated behind closed doors with fake media.
    I got a feeling this is only the beginning... we ain't seen nothing yet.

  32. #28
    Rand chimes in... kind of...

    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Rand Paul:
    “What kind of world it would be if secret intelligence agencies would record our phone calls and then release them to the media. That is not just a leak. … We are talking about private information between high ranking government officials and high ranking foreign government officials. If we’re going to release that to the press, that is very, very worrisome. In the process of that, we’re going to destroy people who are critics of the intelligence community. Boy that really, really alarms me. That’s not just a partisan shifting of blame. This is very, very concerning for a free society.
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