Thread winner...Originally Posted by angelatc
Yes she should. And jailed if she comes back again.Originally Posted by Superfluous Man
...she shouldn't be deported.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 02-10-2017 at 12:57 AM.
lmfao
http://www.12news.com/news/politics/...tion/406613875
[...]Identity theft conviction
In December 2008, former Sheriff Joe Arpaio's workplace raids swept up Garcia and several other employees at the Golfland Sunsplash amusement parks.
The Arpaio raids hit businesses employing undocumented immigrants, under Arizona's employer sanctions law.
Investigators had received an emailed tip about forged identity documents used by employees. A former facilities manager told authorities the general manager said Golfland was going to ignore the law.
Court documents show Garcia used a social security number that didn't belong to her, though the complaint doesn't say whom it belonged to. Garcia's family members and her attorney say she made up the number.
Garcia also used an alien registration number -- identification for permanent legal residents -- that belonged to a 55-year-old man.
No evidence was presented that individuals were harmed by the use of the Social Security number or alien registration number.
Garcia avoided trial by pleading guilty to a felony charge of criminal impersonation. She was sentenced to two years of probation and ordered not to remain in the U.S. if she was voluntarily deported.
A year later, Golfland would become the first company punished under the employer sanctions law, but it was a slap on the wrist.[...]
[...]Identity theft conviction
In December 2008, former Sheriff Joe Arpaio's workplace raids swept up Garcia and several other employees at the Golfland Sunsplash amusement parks.
The Arpaio raids hit businesses employing undocumented immigrants, under Arizona's employer sanctions law.
Investigators had received an emailed tip about forged identity documents used by employees. A former facilities manager told authorities the general manager said Golfland was going to ignore the law.
Court documents show Garcia used a social security number that didn't belong to her, though the complaint doesn't say whom it belonged to. Garcia's family members and her attorney say she made up the number.
Garcia also used an alien registration number -- identification for permanent legal residents -- that belonged to a 55-year-old man.
No evidence was presented that individuals were harmed by the use of the Social Security number or alien registration number.
Garcia avoided trial by pleading guilty to a felony charge of criminal impersonation. She was sentenced to two years of probation and ordered not to remain in the U.S. if she was voluntarily deported.
A year later, Golfland would become the first company punished under the employer sanctions law, but it was a slap on the wrist.[...]
This is kinda odd, they had the SSN, alien identification number she used to commit her "crime" and yet were unable to present any evidence that the criminal harmed anyone. Does anyone else think they would have not presented the evidence if they had it?
Again, like I have been saying. If they have actual evidence of harm, even the emotional type, I would completely side with the Joe Arpios of this world. I am a very reasonable man but I still need evidence of damages cos I do not believe in victimless crimes anymore.
If I got an automatic AK 47 and shot it in your direction but missed 100% of the time, will you do nothing about it? or wait until one of the bullets hit you before doing something? cos according to you guys behaviour with impaired drivers driving recklessly on the road, something is no damaged up until the point they are actually him by someone.
My approach to an impaired drivers driving dangerously on the road and an illegal immigrants stealing ID to work are different because the two in regards to their ability to harm me and my fellow citizens are completely different.
Isn't god emperor's work great? A good gauge is the number of tears it generates.
I wasn't attempting to insult you angela, I was attempting to raise your level of discourse and conjecture to what should be in truth rather than what is in fact.
apologies if you took it that way
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
You're jumping pretty hard from the last line of the previous posts don't you think?
I am a very reasonable man but I still need evidence of damages cos I do not believe in victimless crimes anymore.
"The Patriarch"
http://2012.republican-candidates.or...l-Security.phpChris Wallace: You talk a lot about the Constitution. You say Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, are all unconstitutional.
Ron Paul: Technically they are.
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
What a histrionic analogy!
And I have treated "car wrecks".............4 Years ER duty.
Hip injuries such as you've been trumpeting are actually quite rare, ever rarer yet when associated with a "drunk driver"...
Buying into media hype is not a sign of intellect or tolerance.
But this thread is about some Messican who got the boot and not your position on drunk drivers, my apologies for bringing it up.
I work in a hospital floor that is not trauma and when the trauma floor was over capacity, we had two patients with that sort of injury come down to my floor. And yes, both injuries came about because of their impaired driving(driving without sleep) not alcoholism.
Well, this whole thought process contained in my poll came about because of the story about the Ron Paul supporting teacher who was outed cos someone got butt hurt that she reported a dangerous impaired driver to the police. I am not buying into any media hype. I agree with you about the hype about drunk driver but at the same time an impaired driver is like a tornado, they are rare, over hyped by the media and the chances of the average man getting hit by a tornado is very little. But once you sight a tornado, that probability shoots up the roof and you better get out of the way and warn people around you. I treat my impaired drivers like a tornado.
Apologies accepted.
Good question. When we think of identity theft we see images of fraudulent credit cards and spending sprees. In the most cases of illegal immigrants using a fraudulent SSN, they use it to get a job. They pay into SSN with no expectation of receiving SSN benefits.
You'll find that any "harm" that comes to someone because of SSN theft is manifested by unconstitutional state edicts and agents so enforcing not by any harm directly intended by or administered by the supposed "felon".
everyone shall be put to death for his own sin Deuteronomy 24:16
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
And, SS is also unconstitutional and was one of those things promised to NEVER used for ID.
RIIIIIIIIIIIGHT......
There is no spoon.
If she's like Elvira Arellano, we'll hear about her 24/7 until there's a Democrat majority in the house. Then she'll come back and get deported on a regular basis. Free airfare home, I guess.
She was tried and convicted of her crime in 2009. She was given a sentence and conditions to meet which she has been faithfully fulfilling. Now she is being re-sentenced (deported) for the same crime without any new hearing.
You are good with finding information, any news about the true victim of this horrific crime?
Her sentence included deportation.
http://www.businessinsider.com/arizo...n-trump-2017-2
A judge had ordered her deportation in 2013, but she was allowed to stay in the US because the Obama administration generally limited deportations of immigrants living in the country illegally to only those who were convicted of serious crimes or who had ties to criminal organizations, The Times' Fernanda Santos wrote.
Last edited by angelatc; 02-10-2017 at 01:37 PM.
crime implies a victim of harm; moreso
she was tried and convicted of her statutory violation
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
A judges Order of Removal (sentence of deportation) is not a finality; everyone has immediate option to reserve right to appeal under Due Process and then 30 days to file a Notice of Appeal thereafter.
This woman did appeal, and for 8 years was granted reprieve every 6 months while she enjoyed her Liberty in peace while working and raising a family as a documented non-citizen resident.
Failure of the court to consider her 8 years living in peace is simple grounds for Due Process violation.
“Due process always requires, at a minimum, notice and an opportunity to respond.”
“Where an alien is given a full and fair opportunity to be represented by
counsel, prepare an application for relief, and to present testimony and other
evidence in support of the application, he or she has been provided with due
process.”
http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...mig_west/E.pdf
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
She's here illegally. Even without a felony conviction she should be deported, according to the law.
But it is a fact, even for people who are natural born citizens of natural born citizen parents. If she has been here for 22 years and has kids, then the taxpayers have forked over a grand sum for her kids to sail right through government schools already.
#NashvilleStrong
“I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi
It would be so much easier debating these sort of issues if there was no govt benefit whatsoever to the defendant. It would be very straight forward. Show me the victim or there is no crime, but now people can bring up the fact that her children went to govt school and most likely were on welfare program etc etc.
It's an unjust law. And an unjust law is no law at all.
What does that have to do with anything? Taxpayers pay for lots of kids to go through government schools, including mine. Is that a reason to deport me?
We should end public education. But that and immigration policy are two totally unrelated things.
ETA: I had a brain fart there, because this isn't even a case of educating noncitizens. This woman's children are citizens.
Last edited by Superfluous Man; 02-10-2017 at 06:19 PM.
So we just all suck it up and take the injustice? The law is not going to go away soon. She goes away fairly easily.
Let me tell you something: If I underpaid my taxes by one nickel, the government would be all over me like ugly on a bulldog. Yet someone can walk in here and perpetuate fraud and only have to travel down to Mexico?
#NashvilleStrong
“I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi
What injustice?
You mean the unjust law?
That law shouldn't be enforced. This woman shouldn't be deported. She should be allowed to work in the US.
No it wouldn't. Plus, this isn't a case of a woman underpaying, but overpaying, and not being eligible to get Social Security when she retires after decades of paying the payroll tax for it.
As for her fraud, who is the victim and what are the damages? If you can't answer those questions, then there's no crime.
It's simpler than that. Did the "identity thief" have permission to use the SSN? Sorry but I don't buy the "Falsely acquiring my SSN is okay as long as you are productive with it" argument. Even a well meaning Identity thief might open get a credit card with the best intentions of paying it back and then fall on hard times. Of course the catch-22 is that the person who's SSN was acquired can't admit that he let someone else use it on purpose if that indeed happened because then the legit SSN owner could get in trouble.
So....here's a simpler solution. If you're undocumented, work in the underground economy. I don't just mean drugs or prostitution. Lots of people do day labor jobs for cash. Open a food truck. Put an ad on Craigslist for cleaning houses. Where there is a will there is a way. Dumb as hell for her and her lawyer to try to try Trump though.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
Okay. Do you seriously believe that all or even most of the immigrants who use fraudulent SSN numbers to get jobs never apply for a credit card or open a bank account, turn on utilities or do anything else like that? Because I don't. And even someone doing that with the best intentions runs the risk of ruining someone else's credit.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22562690/n.../#.WJ1odR9ic8o
Last edited by jmdrake; 02-10-2017 at 06:38 PM.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
This is the problem I have with this case. I don't know if it affected the gentleman who's number she used BUT if I ended up owing more taxes because someone stole my number, I'd hunt their ass down. Not only for costing me money but also for putting me on the IRS's radar.
regardless of what you think the law is, this woman showed a willingness to violate someone else's natural rights. it happens that this particular individual she violated doesn't think he was violated. the problem is, the woman didn't care one way or the other if her violation of that individual's rights caused damage.
she will continue to violate other individual's natural rights as long as she is allowed and as long as no one tries to stop her from doing so.
what she did was wrong and it finally caught up to her. regardless of what you think the law is and regardless if the person she attacked was actually physically harmed.
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