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Thread: Trump to go after H1B visa abuse next.

  1. #1

    Default Trump to go after H1B visa abuse next.

    heh, about time. if you thought the tech companies were wailing already, just wait until their steady flow of indentured servants gets slowed.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-home-for-tech

    President Donald Trump’s clash with Silicon Valley over immigration is about to become even more contentious.

    After the new president banned refugees and travelers from seven predominantly Muslim countries, Google, Facebook, Salesforce, Microsoft and others railed against the move, saying it violated the country’s principles and risked disrupting its engine of innovation. Trump’s next steps could strike even closer to home: His administration has drafted an executive order aimed at overhauling the work-visa programs technology companies depend on to hire tens of thousands of employees each year.

    If implemented, the reforms could shift the way American companies like Microsoft Corp., Amazon.com Inc. and Apple Inc. recruit talent and force wholesale changes at Indian companies such as Infosys Ltd. and Wipro Ltd. Businesses would have to try to hire American first and if they recruit foreign workers, priority would be given to the most highly paid.

    “Our country’s immigration policies should be designed and implemented to serve, first and foremost, the U.S. national interest,” the draft proposal reads, according to a copy reviewed by Bloomberg. “Visa programs for foreign workers … should be administered in a manner that protects the civil rights of American workers and current lawful residents, and that prioritizes the protection of American workers -- our forgotten working people -- and the jobs they hold.”

    more at link...



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  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    heh, about time. if you thought the tech companies were wailing already, just wait until their steady flow of indentured servants gets slowed.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-home-for-tech
    I think this is also starting to impact large firms outside of tech as well. Several recruiters are telling me about the need to onshore devops. My guess is Trump has already signaled this in the meetings he's had and those firms are taking it seriously.

  4. #3

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    Does this mean I might actually someday talk to an American if I called tech support?

  5. #4

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    Good to see another campaign promise being honored. Not only does it look like he is following through he is not being weasley about it or doubling down against Americans like other Republicans. This helps move the national dialogue in the right direction instead of the out right ass kissing talk to appeal to the Silicon Valley Oligarchs for campaign financing we usually hear.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    heh, about time. if you thought the tech companies were wailing already, just wait until their steady flow of indentured servants gets slowed.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-home-for-tech
    slave labor contracts going bye bye????? wow. This is incredibly surprising. How many people are aware that visas are issued because corporations know they have special laws imposed on foreigners to make them basically slaves?
    It was too weird to live, and too rare to die - hunter s. thompson .
    ..this is the darkest timeline..

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotOne View Post
    Does this mean I might actually someday talk to an American if I called tech support?
    Less likely. Companies don't sponsor call center staff for H1B visas. The unintended consequence of reducing visa applicants is an increase in cost due to higher salaries being paid to domestic employees. Companies will need to move easy-to-train jobs like customer service offshore to offset the cost.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotOne View Post
    Does this mean I might actually someday talk to an American if I called tech support?
    No, it will make it less likely.

    Those call centers are not in the United States because of the prohibitive cost of having them here. Making it even more expensive will not somehow magically change that math.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
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    Why do you try to disprove actual real evidence by discussing the views of the person who compiled it? That doesn't make any logical sense.

  9. #8

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    call center / help desk are the perfect environment to begin training employees for higher skilled positions.

    I think if there truly is a shortage companies will want a pipeline of local home grown talent. The biggest problem that H1B's have caused besides offshoring the high skilled positions is that it chokes off the entire tech pathway.

    If there truly is a reform of H1B's and companies have to rely on homegrown talent more, it would make sense for companies to invest in training from the ground up and help US workers get educated. Those elementary tech skills one gains while doing phone support quickly translate into higher level of skill in the right environment.

    Right now, foreigners reaps those rewards. The whole way that high tech companies think about education also needs to change. Education and high tech have never really made institutional gains. That could change if foreign out sourcing of that pipeline dries up.

  10. #9

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    Realistically who want's to deal with a call center? On hold for lengthy periods only to have to navigate a robotic system that heaven forbid you choose the wrong selection, none at all, or for some phantom reason get disconnected. If you can finally speak with a live person, they often times are robot like and have very limited authority or say things that are not delivered upon.

    When I have an issue I prefer to send an email which I can easily save and then there is no misunderstanding of what the company told me or what I told them. In just a couple of minutes I can relay my issue in a note and click send. That is much better and faster for me than calling and not getting results.

    I would imagine that one day there will be robots reading email's and answering our concerns instead of humans. If you don't like the response the robot gives you, you simply click a link and escalate your concern.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by newbitech View Post
    call center / help desk are the perfect environment to begin training employees for higher skilled positions.

    I think if there truly is a shortage companies will want a pipeline of local home grown talent. The biggest problem that H1B's have caused besides offshoring the high skilled positions is that it chokes off the entire tech pathway.

    If there truly is a reform of H1B's and companies have to rely on homegrown talent more, it would make sense for companies to invest in training from the ground up and help US workers get educated. Those elementary tech skills one gains while doing phone support quickly translate into higher level of skill in the right environment.

    Right now, foreigners reaps those rewards. The whole way that high tech companies think about education also needs to change. Education and high tech have never really made institutional gains. That could change if foreign out sourcing of that pipeline dries up.
    That's exactly how I worked my way up, from help desk -> phone support -> junior sysadmin/programmer -> sysadmin/programmer -> programmer -> senior engineer -> covered by the Keyman Insurance Policy

    99.9% of the jobs that H1B visa people are filling could be filled by americans if given the chance to be trained.
    Last edited by specsaregood; 01-31-2017 at 07:54 AM.

  12. #11

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    screw Obamacare, can trump get busy with sending the hordes of worthless $#@!stick H1-b visa morons back where they came from? my week has been wasted dealing with these people with more letters in their PHD than braincells they have to rub together.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    screw Obamacare, can trump get busy with sending the hordes of worthless $#@!stick H1-b visa morons back where they came from? my week has been wasted dealing with these people with more letters in their PHD than braincells they have to rub together.
    LOL. Didn't you know, they are the best and brightest. They do the work that Americans are too stupid to do.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  14. #13

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    I remain unconvinced that these visas are needed.
    Even Bigfoot supports Glen Bradley .

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I remain unconvinced that these visas are needed.
    Confirmed. Why Can't Programmers.. Program? https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-ca...mmers-program/
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotOne View Post
    Does this mean I might actually someday talk to an American if I called tech support?

    No. The H1B is for highly educated, highly skilled and talented in specialized occupations generally engineering, chemists, physicists, biotechnology. The minimum salary to qualify for an H1B visa is $60k, but generally they are well in the six figures and up.
    These are the best, and brightest, and most talented, and most creative that the world has to offer. Of all the immigrant categories, this is the one that should not be restricted. We should be encouraging and welcoming the most talented, innovative and intelligent that the world has to offer, not restricting them.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul.
    "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne
    "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    No. The H1B is for highly educated, highly skilled and talented in specialized occupations generally engineering, chemists, physicists, biotechnology. The minimum salary to qualify for an H1B visa is $60k, but generally they are well in the six figures and up.
    These are the best, and brightest, and most talented, and most creative that the world has to offer. Of all the immigrant categories, this is the one that should not be restricted. We should be encouraging and welcoming the most talented, innovative and intelligent that the world has to offer, not restricting them.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    We should be encouraging and welcoming the most talented, innovative and intelligent that the world has to offer, not restricting them.
    Are we still talking about H1B?
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Are we still talking about H1B?
    Only if it's from someone not familiar with workers here on H1B...or cheap labor lobbyists.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    heh, about time. if you thought the tech companies were wailing already, just wait until their steady flow of indentured servants gets slowed.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-home-for-tech
    Yeah, because Bloomeberg is such a reliable source.

    That aside, I find the use of "national interest" most unfortunate. World leaders need to hire me to teach them how to think and speak properly.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Yeah, because Bloomeberg is such a reliable source.

    That aside, I find the use of "national interest" most unfortunate. World leaders need to hire me to teach them how to think and speak properly.
    In case you have not noticed these skills are not very important on this planet.
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    In case you have not noticed these skills are not very important on this planet.
    True, but the truth remains, regardless of the opinions of fools and nitwits.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica View Post
    slave labor contracts going bye bye????? wow. This is incredibly surprising. How many people are aware that visas are issued because corporations know they have special laws imposed on foreigners to make them basically slaves?

    I have a lot of questions about this. Are H1Bs are here against their will? How do H1Bs hurt the economy? Do they hurt the businesses that hire them? The people that buy their products? I'm a programmer, this interests me.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    ...Do they hurt the businesses that hire them? The people that buy their products? I'm a programmer, this interests me.
    Good question. Faith in businesses doing what is actually best for the business is totally overblown. Nine out of ten businesses fail. There is a reason for that.

    As far as H1Bs hurting a business, I have personally witnessed the following at two different, large tech companies: An H1B is hired at a management/hiring level, and one of their first actions is to hire ~10 H1Bs to work under them. No advertised open positions, no real search for the best employees, just 10 new bodies. Were there kick-backs involved? That was never proven. There is no doubt this was not a standard hiring process. In both instance, these hired H1Bs provided little if any benefit to the business.

    At one company, this type of action was common place. That large company went out of business. At the other company, this was "discovered" after ~6 months, and the manager and employees were let go. That company is still in business.

    Is this good for business? It depends. There is certainly no hard and fast rule that it is good. The fact that IT is dominated by H1Bs from a specific nation is no accident. It is the result of non-market favoritism and a massive PR campaign by ignorant executives.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Good question. Faith in businesses doing what is actually best for the business is totally overblown. Nine out of ten businesses fail. There is a reason for that.

    As far as H1Bs hurting a business, I have personally witnessed the following at two different, large tech companies: An H1B is hired at a management/hiring level, and one of their first actions is to hire ~10 H1Bs to work under them. No advertised open positions, no real search for the best employees, just 10 new bodies. Were there kick-backs involved? That was never proven. There is no doubt this was not a standard hiring process. In both instance, these hired H1Bs provided little if any benefit to the business.

    At one company, this type of action was common place. That large company went out of business. At the other company, this was "discovered" after ~6 months, and the manager and employees were let go. That company is still in business.

    Is this good for business? It depends. There is certainly no hard and fast rule that it is good. The fact that IT is dominated by H1Bs from a specific nation is no accident. It is the result of non-market favoritism and a massive PR campaign by ignorant executives.
    Shouldn't we let the business decide what's best for them?

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Shouldn't we let the business decide what's best for them?
    Certainly they are free to make as many bad business decisions as they want until their doors close. But there are limits. If they want to dump toxic waste into the street because that's the cheapest way to do it, a lot of other people will be affected, and will have a problem with it.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I have a lot of questions about this. Are H1Bs are here against their will? How do H1Bs hurt the economy? Do they hurt the businesses that hire them? The people that buy their products? I'm a programmer, this interests me.
    In the presence of H1B is hard to see an actual salary increase if the corp has an option of bringing in an H1B at the current or even lower rate. Salary suppression by eliminating market forces.
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Shouldn't we let the business decide what's best for them?
    Your question was "Do they hurt the businesses that hire them?" I gave you an example of where it does hurt them.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Your question was "Do they hurt the businesses that hire them?" I gave you an example of where it does hurt them.
    Does the government need to be involved in capitalism?

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Does the government need to be involved in capitalism?
    NO.

    Then it isn't capitalism, it's mercantilism- the reason we fought the War of Independence.
    There is no spoon.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Your question was "Do they hurt the businesses that hire them?" I gave you an example of where it does hurt them.
    I'm not seeing any rights violations here. And I don't see how it harms the economy in general. This is the classic broken window fallacy. Yes, it's bad for the US programmer who loses his job, but it's good for the business and good for the consumer. Many businesses would go bankrupt if they couldn't hire H1B workers. Or illegal workers for that matter. At least this preserves some US jobs.

    Are you in favor of banning H1B visas?

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