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Thread: The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave

  1. #1

    The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave

    The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave
    Why can’t our immigration authorities deport the hordes of illegal felons in our cities?
    Heather Mac Donald
    Winter 2004

    Some of the most violent criminals at large today are illegal aliens. Yet in cities where the crime these aliens commit is highest, the police cannot use the most obvious tool to apprehend them: their immigration status. In Los Angeles, for example, dozens of members of a ruthless Salvadoran prison gang have sneaked back into town after having been deported for such crimes as murder, assault with a deadly weapon, and drug trafficking. Police officers know who they are and know that their mere presence in the country is a felony. Yet should a cop arrest an illegal gangbanger for felonious reentry, it is he who will be treated as a criminal, for violating the LAPD’s rule against enforcing immigration law.

    The LAPD’s ban on immigration enforcement mirrors bans in immigrant-saturated cities around the country, from New York and Chicago to San Diego, Austin, and Houston. These “sanctuary policies” generally prohibit city employees, including the cops, from reporting immigration violations to federal authorities.

    Such laws testify to the sheer political power of immigrant lobbies, a power so irresistible that police officials shrink from even mentioning the illegal-alien crime wave. “We can’t even talk about it,” says a frustrated LAPD captain. “People are afraid of a backlash from Hispanics.” Another LAPD commander in a predominantly Hispanic, gang-infested district sighs: “I would get a firestorm of criticism if I talked about [enforcing the immigration law against illegals].” Neither captain would speak for attribution.

    But however pernicious in themselves, sanctuary rules are a symptom of a much broader disease: the nation’s near-total loss of control over immigration policy. Fifty years ago, immigration policy might have driven immigration numbers, but today the numbers drive policy. The nonstop increase of immigration is reshaping the language and the law to dissolve any distinction between legal and illegal aliens and, ultimately, the very idea of national borders.
    much more here:
    https://www.city-journal.org/html/il...ave-12492.html
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights



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  3. #2
    Let's wait for an opposing view to be presented by one of our resident shills.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave
    Why can’t our immigration authorities deport the hordes of illegal felons in our cities?
    Heather Mac Donald
    Winter 2004



    much more here:
    https://www.city-journal.org/html/il...ave-12492.html
    I have a right to life, liberty , property and to pursue happiness. I am 70 years old. An "illegal" immigrant has NEVER interfered with those rights. But the government and their GUN FREE ZONES have.


    .
    .
    .DON'T TAX ME BRO!!!

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    .
    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    I have a right to life, liberty , property and to pursue happiness. I am 70 years old. An "illegal" immigrant has NEVER interfered with those rights. But the government and their GUN FREE ZONES have.


    .
    I am also a bit of a hermit but this does not prevent me from engaging in a meaningful discussion about things I have no idea about.

  6. #5
    I'm no hermit, but my rights have never been violated by an illegal, either. The illegals I've encountered are hard-working people who clean toilets, mop floors, and do other work most Americans absolutely refuse to do.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    I am also a bit of a hermit but this does not prevent me from engaging in a meaningful discussion about things I have no idea about.

    I see , so what are the consequences if you prevent someone from working because he is an "illegal"?


    /
    .
    .DON'T TAX ME BRO!!!

    .
    .
    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ Liberty View Post
    I'm no hermit, but my rights have never been violated by an illegal, either. The illegals I've encountered are hard-working people who clean toilets, mop floors, and do other work most Americans absolutely refuse to do.
    With the bar set so high - my rights have never been violated - no wonder it is hard for you to see the problem.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ Liberty View Post
    I'm no hermit, but my rights have never been violated by an illegal, either. The illegals I've encountered are hard-working people who clean toilets, mop floors, and do other work most Americans absolutely refuse to do.
    That is also my experience.
    There is no spoon.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    I see , so what are the consequences if you prevent someone from working because he is an "illegal"?


    /
    None, just like showing how stupid you are on the internets.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    None, just like showing how stupid you are on the internets.


    Hummmmmmmmmmm

    Did a Mexican screw your wife?


    .
    Last edited by Contumacious; 01-30-2017 at 12:36 AM.
    .
    .DON'T TAX ME BRO!!!

    .
    .
    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    That is also my experience.
    Kate Steinle does not agree with your "experience".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...athryn_Steinle

    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Let's wait for an opposing view to be presented by one of our resident shills.
    Like Ron Paul?

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    That is also my experience.
    Yes. I also have two friends who spent decades going through all the steps to become a US citizen. In both cases, the bureaucracy involved was utterly time-consuming and horribly daunting.

    My friend Phi came over from Kampuchea (now Cambodia) in the 1970s. He was a refugee, and had been tortured by the Khmer Rouge. (Among other things, they placed bamboo sticks between his fingers and then bound his hands tightly; he once demonstrated this for me, and I was glad it was only for a few minutes). He fled a forced-labor camp and was almost killed by a US serviceman near what he now believes was the Laos/Vietnam/Kampuchea border. But he was accepted as a refugee, and came to America. He's now a doctor (M.D.), and spends much of his time overseas helping refugees. He's received awards from the Vatican for his selflessness in helping others. Although he spent eight years in medical school, he told me two years ago that the process of becoming a doctor was far easier than becoming a U.S. citizen. That is $#@!ed up!

    My friend Sylvia came to the US in 1968, from Mexico. She said as a schoolgirl in Mexico, she didn't even own shoes; her family came to America for a better life. She studied, and became a cataloging librarian in the 1970s, and she worked in some of the most prestigious libraries in the country while waiting to fully become a citizen, but she didn't actually become a US citizen until 2010. While waiting, she got married, had children, and even grandchildren. She said the process went at a snail's pace for years and years, in part because the bureau lost her application or proof of continuous residence multiple times. But she never gave up, and now there is a photo of her in my office, proudly waving the American flag, on the day she finally became an American.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    With the bar set so high - my rights have never been violated - no wonder it is hard for you to see the problem.
    Tell us, what is the problem we're supposed to see?

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Tell us, what is the problem we're supposed to see?
    May I direct your attention to the OP in the same thread you are spewing your pablum in.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Like Ron Paul?
    This is a site violation. Quoted for posterity. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    May I direct your attention to the OP in the same thread you are spewing your pablum in.
    Oh, you mean the problem of anti-immigration people trolling Ron Paul Forums and pushing an ideology that goes against the site's mission.

    Yes, that is a problem. I agree that it should be dealt with.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Oh, you mean the problem of anti-immigration people trolling Ron Paul Forums and pushing an ideology that goes against the site's mission.

    Yes, that is a problem. I agree that it should be dealt with.
    You definitely have my support on this one.

  22. #19
    I hope the likes of Contumacious, RJ Liberty, and Ender never criticize the police and expect anyone to sympathize with their opinion given their collective attitude expressed here.

    When discussing police brutality or corruption the vast majority of people blithely respond with some variation of "They've never violated my rights". Occasionally they volunteer a story of a cop they knew, or one who helped them, and therefore all is right in the world. They'll concede a few bad apples, and move on. Nothing changes. Another person will be brutalized and the cycle repeats itself.

    This is why liberty loses without a fight. How do you, Contumacious, expect anyone to take your issue with the government violating your rights seriously when you are so very capable of casually dismissing actual criminals that happen to be illegal immigrants by pointing out that you have never suffered because of them?

    Just like it is a certainty there are corrupt cops, it is a certainty there are illegal immigrants that are criminals. Pointing out the good cops/immigrants does not negate the bad ones! It does not mean they are not a problem worth addressing!

    Just like every effort should be made to eliminate corruption within law enforcement it is only logical every effort should be made to ensure a high quality of immigrant is the only one in this country. Failure on both fronts leads to the people of this country suffering further violations of their rights that are both unnecessary and destructive to the social cohesion that allows for productive environments.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    I have a right to life, liberty , property and to pursue happiness. I am 70 years old. An "illegal" immigrant has NEVER interfered with those rights. But the government and their GUN FREE ZONES have.


    .
    maybe you should come visit my 84 year old grandma who has lived in her house for over 50 years, and her neighborhood has been peaceful and quiet until illegal aliens moved into her neighborhood and F_ED UP every single house.DO YOU NEED PICTURES to see? I can bring pictures next time.Want to see all the wild packs of dogs that run around by the 10-20s? Want to see the back alley that the city dump trucks no longer drive down because of the heaps of GARBAGE? Maybe I should show you how the entire neighborhood LOOKS LIKE COMPLETE UTTER warzone $#@!....yet they all have brand new vehicles down her block because they work for the cartel. She speaks english fluently,and spanish fluently,word is out that the mexican cartels been there for years.......I know my city, I know my grandmas neighborhood.....these $#@!s did not come here 40 years ago....they moved in quietly in the past 10 years.So try your bull$#@! elsewhere.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by BSWPaulsen View Post
    I hope the likes of Contumacious, RJ Liberty, and Ender never criticize the police
    I'm not sure what "never criticizing the police" has to do with illegals in the US. I've criticized the police repeatedly, both here and in real life, for acts of brutality committed against both US citizens and non-citizens, and I'll continue to do so.

    Just like it is a certainty there are corrupt cops, it is a certainty there are illegal immigrants that are criminals.
    So go after the corrupt cops and go after the illegals that are harming people. But going after some guy because he's illegally here, causing no one harm, violates the non-aggression principle. Let the dude scrub toilets and mop floors in peace.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ Liberty View Post
    Let the dude scrub toilets and mop floors in peace.
    If you are stupid enough to believe everybody's ambitions end up with scrubbing toilets and nobody is willing to take shortcuts to change that I have a bridge in Brooklyn.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ Liberty View Post
    I'm not sure what "never criticizing the police" has to do with illegals in the US. I've criticized the police repeatedly, both here and in real life, for acts of brutality committed against both US citizens and non-citizens, and I'll continue to do so.
    Can you not read? I said I hope you haven't criticized the police, because you are the exact sort of person that fully deserves your criticism to amount to nothing.

    Why? Because you deserve to run into the They've never violated my rights defense given you willingly ignored the illegal immigrants that are criminals (thread topic, in case you missed it) in order to focus on the good ones.

    I doubt you'd tolerate it from someone that wears rose-colored glasses for the police, but yet when it comes to immigrants here you are.

    So go after the corrupt cops and go after the illegals that are harming people. But going after some guy because he's illegally here, causing no one harm, violates the non-aggression principle. Let the dude scrub toilets and mop floors in peace.
    Read the article (which, I have no doubt, despite its age, is still pertinent today). It mentions the issues concerning going after illegals known to have caused harm.

    This isn't about janitors, so stop being disingenuous.

  27. #24
    I grew up near the largest illegal alien encampment in California history. I could easily have walked there from my house. I've lived in many hispanic neighborhoods as an adult. I've never had a problem with any of them individually......

    However....

    Illegal immigrants are more likely to use government services and welfare, and their kids and their grandchildren are more likely to use government services and welfare and also they are more likely to vote Democrat and vote for more redistribution of wealth.

    This DOES affect my individual rights, it affects all of us, man, our basic freedoms - I have no problem with the ones who come here to work - but the way we have it setup is a big government program. The government helps bring them in, they help keep them here and they give them a bunch of free stuff, so they can get more Democrat votes. Wake up.
    Last edited by dannno; 01-30-2017 at 01:58 AM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Kate Steinle does not agree with your "experience".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...athryn_Steinle




    Special Report

    The Criminalization of Immigration in the United States

    Immigration and Crime
    By
    Walter Ewing, Ph.D., Daniel E. Martínez, Ph.D. and Rubén G. Rumbaut, Ph.D.
    July 13, 2015

    For more than a century, innumerable studies have confirmed two simple yet powerful truths about the relationship between immigration and crime: immigrants are less likely to commit serious crimes or be behind bars than the native-born, and high rates of immigration are associated with lower rates of violent crime and property crime. This holds true for both legal immigrants and the unauthorized, regardless of their country of origin or level of education. In other words, the overwhelming majority of immigrants are not “criminals” by any commonly accepted definition of the term. For this reason, harsh immigration policies are not effective in fighting crime. Unfortunately, immigration policy is frequently shaped more by fear and stereotype than by empirical evidence. As a result, immigrants have the stigma of “criminality” ascribed to them by an ever-evolving assortment of laws and immigration-enforcement mechanisms. Put differently, immigrants are being defined more and more as threats. Whole new classes of “felonies” have been created which apply only to immigrants, deportation has become a punishment for even minor offenses, and policies aimed at trying to end unauthorized immigration have been made more punitive rather than more rational and practical. In short, immigrants themselves are being criminalized.
    Immigrants are Less Likely to be Criminals Than the Native-Born

    Higher Immigration is Associated with Lower Crime Rates

    Between 1990 and 2013, the foreign-born share of the U.S. population grew from 7.9 percent to 13.1 percent and the number of unauthorized immigrants more than tripled from 3.5 million to 11.2 million.
    During the same period, FBI data indicate that the violent crime rate declined 48 percent—which included falling rates of aggravated assault, robbery, rape, and murder. Likewise, the property crime rate fell 41 percent, including declining rates of motor vehicle theft, larceny/robbery, and burglary.

    Immigrants are Less Likely than the Native-Born to Be Behind Bars

    According to an original analysis of data from the 2010 American Community Survey (ACS) conducted by the authors of this report, roughly 1.6 percent of immigrant males age 18-39 are incarcerated, compared to 3.3 percent of the native-born. This disparity in incarceration rates has existed for decades, as evidenced by data from the 1980, 1990, and 2000 decennial censuses. In each of those years, the incarceration rates of the native-born were anywhere from two to five times higher than that of immigrants.
    The 2010 Census data reveals that incarceration rates among the young, less-educated Mexican, Salvadoran, and Guatemalan men who make up the bulk of the unauthorized population are significantly lower than the incarceration rate among native-born young men without a high-school diploma. In 2010, less-educated native-born men age 18-39 had an incarceration rate of 10.7 percent—more than triple the 2.8 percent rate among foreign-born Mexican men, and five times greater than the 1.7 percent rate among foreign-born Salvadoran and Guatemalan men.

    Immigrants are Less Likely Than the Native-Born to Engage in Criminal Behavior

    A variety of different studies using different methodologies have found that immigrants are less likely than the native-born to engage in either violent or nonviolent “antisocial” behaviors; that immigrants are less likely than the native-born to be repeat offenders among “high risk” adolescents; and that immigrant youth who were students in U.S. middle and high schools in the mid-1990s and are now young adults have among the lowest delinquency rates of all young people.
    h/criminalization-immigration-united-states?utm_content=buffercf974&utm_source=buffer&u tm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer
    There is no spoon.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica View Post
    Want to see all the wild packs of dogs that run around by the 10-20s? Want to see the back alley that the city dump trucks no longer drive down because of the heaps of GARBAGE? Maybe I should show you how the entire neighborhood LOOKS LIKE COMPLETE UTTER warzone $#@!
    It's pretty easy to blame things on "the other": someone different than you. That's how dictators have come to power.

    But the hillbilly redneck town in Arizona where I lived in for many years had wild packs of roaming dogs throughout the 1990s and early 2000s, trashy vehicles, rampant alcoholism and meth use, and heaps of garbage in most backyards, despite the fact that the town is 87% white. Blaming illegals for all the problems doesn't cut it, any more than blaming "the blacks".

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by BSWPaulsen View Post
    Can you not read? I said I hope you haven't criticized the police, because you are the exact sort of person that fully deserves your criticism to amount to nothing.

    Why? Because you deserve to run into the They've never violated my rights defense given you willingly ignored the illegal immigrants that are criminals (thread topic, in case you missed it) in order to focus on the good ones.
    Yes, I can read. Please spare me the "you deserve x" garbage.

    I think your analogy makes no sense. I feel I have the right to oppose police violence in great part because I pay their salary. I don't pay the salaries of violent illegals. Studies show that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than US citizens. "This holds true for both legal immigrants and the unauthorized, regardless of their country of origin or level of education. In other words, the overwhelming majority of immigrants are not “criminals” by any commonly accepted definition of the term. Whole new classes of “felonies” have been created which apply only to immigrants, deportation has become a punishment for even minor offenses, and policies aimed at trying to end unauthorized immigration have been made more punitive rather than more rational and practical. In short, immigrants themselves are being criminalized."

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ Liberty View Post
    Yes, I can read. Please spare me the "you deserve x" garbage.

    I think your analogy makes no sense. I feel I have the right to oppose police violence in great part because I pay their salary. I don't pay the salaries of violent illegals.
    You do not need to pay the salaries of violent illegal immigrants in order to recognize them as the problem they are.

    My analogy is simple: If someone can use the "They didn't violate my rights" response when it comes to illegal immigrants, then someone else can damn well turn around and use it in favor of police. It's the sort of irresponsible laziness that allowed police corruption and brutality to become what it is today, but yet you think that it is okay to do it when it comes to illegal immigrants.

    Whether you pay their salary doesn't matter in the slightest. There are cops and illegal immigrants that deprive people of their rights. This is an inescapable fact. You should be consistent in your criticism of groups when they deserve it. You are not. You have gone out of your way to place immigrants in a good light in a thread emphasizing that some of them are, in fact, a problem.

    Studies show that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than US citizens. "This holds true for both legal immigrants and the unauthorized, regardless of their country of origin or level of education. In other words, the overwhelming majority of immigrants are not “criminals” by any commonly accepted definition of the term. Whole new classes of “felonies” have been created which apply only to immigrants, deportation has become a punishment for even minor offenses, and policies aimed at trying to end unauthorized immigration have been made more punitive rather than more rational and practical. In short, immigrants themselves are being criminalized."
    Less likely to commit a crime does not mean crimes are not committed.

    There are criminal illegal immigrants. This is a fact. That they are proportionally fewer than Americans is not an argument to be used in favor of uncontrolled immigration, it is actually an extremely effective argument in favor of strictly controlling immigration so as to limit the amount of criminals allowed in.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is a site violation. Quoted for posterity. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
    Can we get some more + rep over here ?
    “[T]he enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table.” (Heller, 554 U.S., at ___, 128 S.Ct., at 2822.)

    How long before "going liberal" replaces "going postal"?

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by BSWPaulsen View Post
    You do not need to pay the salaries of violent illegal immigrants in order to recognize them as the problem they are.
    In fact, immigrants are less likely to commit violent crimes than native-born American citizens. That makes them less of a "problem" than US citizens. You fail to understand that. What if someone were to take your proposals seriously and the government, instead of focusing on lawbreakers, redirected its efforts to eradicating violence coming from illegal immigrants? The net result would be less focus on control of the criminal element among US citizens. And since studies show the proportions of violent crime are higher among US citizens than illegals, your argument would in fact cause more violent Americans to escape justice.

    My analogy is simple: If someone can use the "They didn't violate my rights" response when it comes to illegal immigrants, then someone else can damn well turn around and use it in favor of police.
    Your analogy is confused because one group is supposed to serve the public, and is thus beholden to public opinion, while the other group has nothing to do with serving the public. You're comparing apples and oranges, but you refuse to see it.

    Less likely to commit a crime does not mean crimes are not committed.
    No, it means the proportion is lower. And advocating for going after a group with low levels of violence because a small proportion of them are "violent criminals" is senseless. It's the type of scapegoating which has happened far too often in history. It's lazy, and irresponsible.

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