Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 36

Thread: Executive Order Document to secure the border

  1. #1

    Default Executive Order Document to secure the border

    If you see anything illegal ,tell me,because I read the entire document and have not seen anything unconstitutional in it.
    This is actually one of the things that a president is supposed to do. So why are people up in arms acting as if this is something they never heard of before ? I'm tired of mexicans,chinese,middle eastern,english, etc. whatever whoever they are from wherever who came here illegally crying because they broke laws. If I hopped over to canada and illegally avoided becoming a resident or citizen through legal means you bet I would expect the law to come down on me....and its not smart to do that because then my chance of ever moving there would be screwed over,so why do foreigners usually think they can take advantage of the united states?

    "The White House
    Office of the Press Secretary
    For Immediate Release
    January 25, 2017
    Executive Order: Border Security and Immigration Enforcement Improvements

    EXECUTIVE ORDER

    - - - - - - -

    BORDER SECURITY AND IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT IMPROVEMENTS

    By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 et seq.) (INA), the Secure Fence Act of 2006 (Public Law 109 367) (Secure Fence Act), and the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (Public Law 104 208 Div. C) (IIRIRA), and in order to ensure the safety and territorial integrity of the United States as well as to ensure that the Nation's immigration laws are faithfully executed, I hereby order as follows:

    Section 1. Purpose. Border security is critically important to the national security of the United States. Aliens who illegally enter the United States without inspection or admission present a significant threat to national security and public safety. Such aliens have not been identified or inspected by Federal immigration officers to determine their admissibility to the United States. The recent surge of illegal immigration at the southern border with Mexico has placed a significant strain on Federal resources and overwhelmed agencies charged with border security and immigration enforcement, as well as the local communities into which many of the aliens are placed.

    Transnational criminal organizations operate sophisticated drug- and human-trafficking networks and smuggling operations on both sides of the southern border, contributing to a significant increase in violent crime and United States deaths from dangerous drugs. Among those who illegally enter are those who seek to harm Americans through acts of terror or criminal conduct. Continued illegal immigration presents a clear and present danger to the interests of the United States.

    Federal immigration law both imposes the responsibility and provides the means for the Federal Government, in cooperation with border States, to secure the Nation's southern border. Although Federal immigration law provides a robust framework for Federal-State partnership in enforcing our immigration laws and the Congress has authorized and provided appropriations to secure our borders the Federal Government has failed to discharge this basic sovereign responsibility. The purpose of this order is to direct executive departments and agencies (agencies) to deploy all lawful means to secure the Nation's southern border, to prevent further illegal immigration into the United States, and to repatriate illegal aliens swiftly, consistently, and humanely.

    Sec. 2. Policy. It is the policy of the executive branch to:

    (a) secure the southern border of the United States through the immediate construction of a physical wall on the southern border, monitored and supported by adequate personnel so as to prevent illegal immigration, drug and human trafficking, and acts of terrorism;

    (b) detain individuals apprehended on suspicion of violating Federal or State law, including Federal immigration law, pending further proceedings regarding those violations;

    (c) expedite determinations of apprehended individuals' claims of eligibility to remain in the United States;

    (d) remove promptly those individuals whose legal claims to remain in the United States have been lawfully rejected, after any appropriate civil or criminal sanctions have been imposed; and

    (e) cooperate fully with States and local law enforcement in enacting Federal-State partnerships to enforce Federal immigration priorities, as well as State monitoring and detention programs that are consistent with Federal law and do not undermine Federal immigration priorities.

    Sec. 3. Definitions. (a) "Asylum officer" has the meaning given the term in section 235(b)(1)(E) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1225(b)(1)).

    (b) "Southern border" shall mean the contiguous land border between the United States and Mexico, including all points of entry.

    (c) "Border States" shall mean the States of the United States immediately adjacent to the contiguous land border between the United States and Mexico.

    (d) Except as otherwise noted, "the Secretary" shall refer to the Secretary of Homeland Security.

    (e) "Wall" shall mean a contiguous, physical wall or other similarly secure, contiguous, and impassable physical barrier.

    (f) "Executive department" shall have the meaning given in section 101 of title 5, United States Code.

    (g) "Regulations" shall mean any and all Federal rules, regulations, and directives lawfully promulgated by agencies.

    (h) "Operational control" shall mean the prevention of all unlawful entries into the United States, including entries by terrorists, other unlawful aliens, instruments of terrorism, narcotics, and other contraband.

    Sec. 4. Physical Security of the Southern Border of the United States. The Secretary shall immediately take the following steps to obtain complete operational control, as determined by the Secretary, of the southern border:

    (a) In accordance with existing law, including the Secure Fence Act and IIRIRA, take all appropriate steps to immediately plan, design, and construct a physical wall along the southern border, using appropriate materials and technology to most effectively achieve complete operational control of the southern border;

    (b) Identify and, to the extent permitted by law, allocate all sources of Federal funds for the planning, designing, and constructing of a physical wall along the southern border;

    (c) Project and develop long-term funding requirements for the wall, including preparing Congressional budget requests for the current and upcoming fiscal years; and

    (d) Produce a comprehensive study of the security of the southern border, to be completed within 180 days of this order, that shall include the current state of southern border security, all geophysical and topographical aspects of the southern border, the availability of Federal and State resources necessary to achieve complete operational control of the southern border, and a strategy to obtain and maintain complete operational control of the southern border.

    Sec. 5. Detention Facilities. (a) The Secretary shall take all appropriate action and allocate all legally available resources to immediately construct, operate, control, or establish contracts to construct, operate, or control facilities to detain aliens at or near the land border with Mexico.

    (b) The Secretary shall take all appropriate action and allocate all legally available resources to immediately assign asylum officers to immigration detention facilities for the purpose of accepting asylum referrals and conducting credible fear determinations pursuant to section 235(b)(1) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1225(b)(1)) and applicable regulations and reasonable fear determinations pursuant to applicable regulations.

    (c) The Attorney General shall take all appropriate action and allocate all legally available resources to immediately assign immigration judges to immigration detention facilities operated or controlled by the Secretary, or operated or controlled pursuant to contract by the Secretary, for the purpose of conducting proceedings authorized under title 8, chapter 12, subchapter II, United States Code.

    Sec. 6. Detention for Illegal Entry. The Secretary shall immediately take all appropriate actions to ensure the detention of aliens apprehended for violations of immigration law pending the outcome of their removal proceedings or their removal from the country to the extent permitted by law. The Secretary shall issue new policy guidance to all Department of Homeland Security personnel regarding the appropriate and consistent use of lawful detention authority under the INA, including the termination of the practice commonly known as "catch and release," whereby aliens are routinely released in the United States shortly after their apprehension for violations of immigration law.

    Sec. 7. Return to Territory. The Secretary shall take appropriate action, consistent with the requirements of section 1232 of title 8, United States Code, to ensure that aliens described in section 235(b)(2)(C) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1225(b)(2)(C)) are returned to the territory from which they came pending a formal removal proceeding.

    Sec. 8. Additional Border Patrol Agents. Subject to available appropriations, the Secretary, through the Commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, shall take all appropriate action to hire 5,000 additional Border Patrol agents, and all appropriate action to ensure that such agents enter on duty and are assigned to duty stations as soon as is practicable.

    Sec. 9. Foreign Aid Reporting Requirements. The head of each executive department and agency shall identify and quantify all sources of direct and indirect Federal aid or assistance to the Government of Mexico on an annual basis over the past five years, including all bilateral and multilateral development aid, economic assistance, humanitarian aid, and military aid. Within 30 days of the date of this order, the head of each executive department and agency shall submit this information to the Secretary of State. Within 60 days of the date of this order, the Secretary shall submit to the President a consolidated report reflecting the levels of such aid and assistance that has been provided annually, over each of the past five years.

    Sec. 10. Federal-State Agreements. It is the policy of the executive branch to empower State and local law enforcement agencies across the country to perform the functions of an immigration officer in the interior of the United States to the maximum extent permitted by law.

    (a) In furtherance of this policy, the Secretary shall immediately take appropriate action to engage with the Governors of the States, as well as local officials, for the purpose of preparing to enter into agreements under section 287(g) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1357(g)).

    (b) To the extent permitted by law, and with the consent of State or local officials, as appropriate, the Secretary shall take appropriate action, through agreements under section 287(g) of the INA, or otherwise, to authorize State and local law enforcement officials, as the Secretary determines are qualified and appropriate, to perform the functions of immigration officers in relation to the investigation, apprehension, or detention of aliens in the United States under the direction and the supervision of the Secretary. Such authorization shall be in addition to, rather than in place of, Federal performance of these duties.

    (c) To the extent permitted by law, the Secretary may structure each agreement under section 287(g) of the INA in the manner that provides the most effective model for enforcing Federal immigration laws and obtaining operational control over the border for that jurisdiction.

    Sec. 11. Parole, Asylum, and Removal. It is the policy of the executive branch to end the abuse of parole and asylum provisions currently used to prevent the lawful removal of removable aliens.

    (a) The Secretary shall immediately take all appropriate action to ensure that the parole and asylum provisions of Federal immigration law are not illegally exploited to prevent the removal of otherwise removable aliens.

    (b) The Secretary shall take all appropriate action, including by promulgating any appropriate regulations, to ensure that asylum referrals and credible fear determinations pursuant to section 235(b)(1) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1125(b)(1)) and 8 CFR 208.30, and reasonable fear determinations pursuant to 8 CFR 208.31, are conducted in a manner consistent with the plain language of those provisions.

    (c) Pursuant to section 235(b)(1)(A)(iii)(I) of the INA, the Secretary shall take appropriate action to apply, in his sole and unreviewable discretion, the provisions of section 235(b)(1)(A)(i) and (ii) of the INA to the aliens designated under section 235(b)(1)(A)(iii)(II).

    (d) The Secretary shall take appropriate action to ensure that parole authority under section 212(d)(5) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1182(d)(5)) is exercised only on a case-by-case basis in accordance with the plain language of the statute, and in all circumstances only when an individual demonstrates urgent humanitarian reasons or a significant public benefit derived from such parole.

    (e) The Secretary shall take appropriate action to require that all Department of Homeland Security personnel are properly trained on the proper application of section 235 of the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 (8 U.S.C. 1232) and section 462(g)(2) of the Homeland Security Act of 2002 (6 U.S.C. 279(g)(2)), to ensure that unaccompanied alien children are properly processed, receive appropriate care and placement while in the custody of the Department of Homeland Security, and, when appropriate, are safely repatriated in accordance with law.

    Sec. 12. Authorization to Enter Federal Lands. The Secretary, in conjunction with the Secretary of the Interior and any other heads of agencies as necessary, shall take all appropriate action to:

    (a) permit all officers and employees of the United States, as well as all State and local officers as authorized by the Secretary, to have access to all Federal lands as necessary and appropriate to implement this order; and

    (b) enable those officers and employees of the United States, as well as all State and local officers as authorized by the Secretary, to perform such actions on Federal lands as the Secretary deems necessary and appropriate to implement this order.

    Sec. 13. Priority Enforcement. The Attorney General shall take all appropriate steps to establish prosecution guidelines and allocate appropriate resources to ensure that Federal prosecutors accord a high priority to prosecutions of offenses having a nexus to the southern border.

    Sec. 14. Government Transparency. The Secretary shall, on a monthly basis and in a publicly available way, report statistical data on aliens apprehended at or near the southern border using a uniform method of reporting by all Department of Homeland Security components, in a format that is easily understandable by the public.

    Sec. 15. Reporting. Except as otherwise provided in this order, the Secretary, within 90 days of the date of this order, and the Attorney General, within 180 days, shall each submit to the President a report on the progress of the directives contained in this order.

    Sec. 16. Hiring. The Office of Personnel Management shall take appropriate action as may be necessary to facilitate hiring personnel to implement this order.

    Sec. 17. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

    (i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

    (ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

    (b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

    (c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

    DONALD J. TRUMP

    THE WHITE HOUSE,
    January 25, 2017."
    It was too weird to live, and too rare to die - hunter s. thompson .
    ..this is the darkest timeline..



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2

    Default

    This all brings to my mind the question of what, exactly, is an "executive order". Why am I suspicious that a precise, clear, and complete definition of the term exists nowhere in the known universe of "government", leaving it wide open to the tyrant's whim?
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.



  4. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    This all brings to my mind the question of what, exactly, is an "executive order". Why am I suspicious that a precise, clear, and complete definition of the term exists nowhere in the known universe of "government", leaving it wide open to the tyrant's whim?
    It is the executive branch authority vested in the u.s. constitution to enforce an existing law.
    It was too weird to live, and too rare to die - hunter s. thompson .
    ..this is the darkest timeline..

  5. #4

    Default

    The whole thing is unconstitutional. I can't see anything in it that is necessary and proper for the use of any powers enumerated to the federal government.

  6. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica View Post
    It is the executive branch authority vested in the u.s. constitution to enforce an existing law.
    Even if this is true, those existing laws are unconstitutional.

  7. #6

    Default

    Here's a post Justin Amash made on FB today:
    Many supporters and opponents of President Trump's executive order are conflating the terms "immigrant" (which encompasses green card holders), "nonimmigrant," and "refugee."
    It's not lawful to ban immigrants because of "nationality, place of birth, or place of residence." This nondiscrimination provision comes from a 1965 law (8 U.S.C. 1152 Sec. 202(a)(1)(A)) that limits the 1952 law (8 U.S.C. 1182 Sec. 212(f)) that the president cites.
    It's lawful to ban nonimmigrants for almost any reason. These are people who are temporarily visiting the United States, like tourists or students.
    It's lawful to ban refugees for almost any reason. But banning all refugees from particular countries is harsh and unwise. We still should admit well-vetted persons.
    Understanding these distinctions is important because supporters of President Trump's executive order continue to wrongly insist that the order is lawful and that President Obama did almost the same thing in 2011. And opponents of President Trump's executive order continue to wrongly insist that banning refugees violates the Constitution or the law.
    President Trump's executive order covers not only refugees but also immigrants and nonimmigrants. As noted above, it's not lawful to discriminate in the issuance of an *immigrant* visa because of the person's "nationality, place of birth, or place of residence."
    President Obama's action (which wasn't disclosed at the time) covered only refugees and, therefore, did not violate the Constitution or the law, even if one finds it objectionable for other reasons.

  8. #7

    Default

    Some argue that executive orders themselves are unconstitutional. The President is granted "executive powers" but that is the power to carry out laws- not to create new ones. Congress is given the power to legislate- to write the laws.

    List of his powers: http://constitutioncenter.org/intera...les/article-ii

    The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.
    The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

    He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

    The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.
    Nothing about making laws, rules, or writing Executive Orders.

    Congress, on the other hand, has the powers to:

    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
    http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2...rs-sections-8/
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 01-29-2017 at 05:59 PM.
    Help me keep posting. Please donate here: http://tinyurl.com/2g9mqh

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  9. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica View Post
    It is the executive branch authority vested in the u.s. constitution to enforce an existing law.
    They are clearly not that, if we judge by the ways in which they have been used.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.



  10. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica View Post
    If you see anything illegal ,tell me,because I read the entire document and have not seen anything unconstitutional in it.
    The President does not have the power to make laws. This order is as unconstitutional as the laws made under George W Bush and Barack Obama.

  11. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RJ Liberty View Post
    The President does not have the power to make laws. This order is as unconstitutional as the laws made under George W Bush and Barack Obama.
    He didn't make a law. I guess you can say this is the grey area of our "republic's" u.s. constitution. What is the definition of defend? what is the definition of border?what is the definition of defending borders. Policy may be a wrong approach, but I see nothing different or worse than previous presidents who did the opposite and actually helped cartels destroy the border. Remember the scandal involving u .s. guns being given to cartels by the government under Obama? Its actually the duty of the president to defend national borders when needed.
    It was too weird to live, and too rare to die - hunter s. thompson .
    ..this is the darkest timeline..

  12. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica View Post
    He didn't make a law. I guess you can say this is the grey area of our "republic's" u.s. constitution. What is the definition of defend? what is the definition of border?what is the definition of defending borders.
    Why do you put it that way? The US Constitution never refers to defending borders.

  13. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica View Post
    If you see anything illegal ,tell me,because I read the entire document and have not seen anything unconstitutional in it.
    I too read it. I agree with you on this one.

  14. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    The whole thing is unconstitutional. I can't see anything in it that is necessary and proper for the use of any powers enumerated to the federal government.
    Article I gives the federal government immigration power for citizenship so long as its uniform. If your argument is that congress has no authority for non-uniform immigration laws then you are, possibly correctly, pointing to the unconstitutionality of green cards, refuge status, etc. But if that's where your pointing then the president is doing his job to 'check' congress and this order prevents congress from having non-uniform immigration.

  15. #14

    Default

    Article IV; Section 4
    The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.
    "Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling
    "Cops today are nothing but an armed tax collector" ~ Frank Serpico
    "To be normal, to drink Coca-Cola and eat Kentucky Fried Chicken is to be in a conspiracy against yourself."
    "People that don't want to make waves sit in stagnant waters."

  16. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Some argue that executive orders themselves are unconstitutional. The President is granted "executive powers" but that is the power to carry out laws- not to create new ones. Congress is given the power to legislate- to write the laws.

    List of his powers: http://constitutioncenter.org/intera...les/article-ii





    Nothing about making laws, rules, or writing Executive Orders.

    Congress, on the other hand, has the powers to:



    http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2...rs-sections-8/
    which law did he "make" in this particular case?

  17. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Why do you put it that way? The US Constitution never refers to defending borders.
    Which law was created?
    this is a directive to people working for the executive branch & it direct them on how to carry out laws passed by congress.

  18. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Here's a post Justin Amash made on FB today:
    i enjoy most everything Amash writes but this is an area I wish he'd explain better. Green card holders aren't US citizens. This directive does deport green card holders either. I know he didn't say that but i wish he was more clear to explain the "ban" for green card holders isn't a ban. It says a green card holder, like all non citizens, may need to go before a judge prior to entry into the country after they are overseas. That judge is to determine the authenticity of the person's documentation prior to letting them enter the country. I sure welcome more Amash quotes if anyone has them so I can better understand his point.

  19. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Article IV; Section 4
    The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.
    If immigration is an invasion and should be prevented, all immigrants and decendents of immigrants should be forced to leave the country. That includes some 90% of the population.
    Help me keep posting. Please donate here: http://tinyurl.com/2g9mqh

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  20. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    If immigration is an invasion and should be prevented, all immigrants and decendents of immigrants should be forced to leave the country. That includes some 90% of the population.
    How about the ranchers on the southern borders? You going to tell them that?

    References:
    http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews...ht-of-illegals
    http://www.desertinvasion.us/
    http://borderinvasionpics.com/
    http://www.theblaze.com/news/2013/09...f-the-cartels/
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...izona-rancher/
    "Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling
    "Cops today are nothing but an armed tax collector" ~ Frank Serpico
    "To be normal, to drink Coca-Cola and eat Kentucky Fried Chicken is to be in a conspiracy against yourself."
    "People that don't want to make waves sit in stagnant waters."

  21. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Here's a post Justin Amash made on FB today:

    Many supporters and opponents of President Trump's executive order are conflating the terms "immigrant" (which encompasses green card holders), "nonimmigrant," and "refugee."


    Who are these people and how are they "conflating"? I have greater trust in Amash than in most of the vermin in DC, but the statement tells us nothing essential. It makes a naked assertion with no specific qualification or support. Justin should know better than this and if he doesn't, he should hire me to teach him. This is important.

    It's not lawful to ban immigrants because of "nationality, place of birth, or place of residence." This nondiscrimination provision comes from a 1965 law (8 U.S.C. 1152 Sec. 202(a)(1)(A)) that limits the 1952 law (8 U.S.C. 1182 Sec. 212(f)) that the president cites.
    Hooboy... "nondiscrimination". A very loaded term on its best days. This is clearly the wording of progressive minds and intentions, of that I hold very little doubt. It is textbook.

    People are generally ill-trained as to the meanings and use of "discrimination", having been lead the apparent belief that any act of discrimination is worthy of a death sentence. This, naturally, is nonsense, but it is nonetheless very dangerously real.

    It's lawful to ban nonimmigrants for almost any reason. These are people who are temporarily visiting the United States, like tourists or students.
    It's lawful to ban refugees for almost any reason.


    Please define the precise meaning of "lawful" in this context. The term has several formally defined meanings and perhaps thousands or billions of perceived meanings. The 1965 law could very well be playing fast and loose with words, as do many statutes. These things bear close and able scrutiny.

    But banning all refugees from particular countries is harsh and unwise. We still should admit well-vetted persons.
    As I recall, proper vetting was the pin on which this entire issue turns and on which Trump hung it. He was very careful to couch his words around vetting and the lefties ignored it as they railed like psychotic idiots about "raycis". Thus far, I see nothing particularly worthy of note.

    Understanding these distinctions is important because supporters of President Trump's executive order continue to wrongly insist that the order is lawful and that President Obama did almost the same thing in 2011. And opponents of President Trump's executive order continue to wrongly insist that banning refugees violates the Constitution or the law.
    Once again, "lawful" comes into serious question. Any time "discrimination" is written into law, my suspicions rise asymptotically.

    President Trump's executive order covers not only refugees but also immigrants and nonimmigrants.


    Where? Please show me the specific language. I many have missed it.

    As noted above, it's not lawful to discriminate in the issuance of an *immigrant* visa because of the person's "nationality, place of birth, or place of residence."
    President Obama's action (which wasn't disclosed at the time) covered only refugees and, therefore, did not violate the Constitution or the law, even if one finds it objectionable for other reasons.
    OK, but this must perforce presuppose that the proper determination of that status has already been undertaken. Prior to being declared an "immigrant", a given individual coming into the country must be "processed" (despise that use of the word, but cannot think of a better one at the moment). That is, someone with the authority must assess the individual. Do we not call this "vetting", among other things?

    I smell a lot of gratuitous stink on that which has been claimed/implied here.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.



  22. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    If immigration is an invasion and should be prevented, all immigrants and decendents of immigrants should be forced to leave the country. That includes some 90% of the population.
    Not so sure about the article 4 part. I agree with you zippy.
    But article 1 section 8 deals with immigration(uniform naturalization), it's a congressional power and the president can direct the executive branch in such a way as to how they will carry out the law.
    Last edited by TommyJeff; 02-01-2017 at 01:23 PM.

  23. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica View Post
    If you see anything illegal ,tell me,because I read the entire document and have not seen anything unconstitutional in it.
    This is actually one of the things that a president is supposed to do. So why are people up in arms acting as if this is something they never heard of before ? I'm tired of mexicans,chinese,middle eastern,english, etc. whatever whoever they are from wherever who came here illegally crying because they broke laws. If I hopped over to canada and illegally avoided becoming a resident or citizen through legal means you bet I would expect the law to come down on me....and its not smart to do that because then my chance of ever moving there would be screwed over,so why do foreigners usually think they can take advantage of the united states?
    There is a lot here, so I will be cursory, but hopefully sufficient for less stringent purposes.



    "The White House
    Office of the Press Secretary
    For Immediate Release
    January 25, 2017
    Executive Order: Border Security and Immigration Enforcement Improvements

    EXECUTIVE ORDER

    - - - - - - -

    BORDER SECURITY AND IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT IMPROVEMENTS

    By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 et seq.) (INA), the Secure Fence Act of 2006 (Public Law 109 367) (Secure Fence Act), and the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (Public Law 104 208 Div. C) (IIRIRA), and in order to ensure the safety and territorial integrity of the United States as well as to ensure that the Nation's immigration laws are faithfully executed, I hereby order as follows:
    Nothing particularly noteworthy there.

    Section 1. Purpose. Border security is critically important to the national security of the United States. Aliens who illegally enter the United States without inspection or admission present a significant threat to national security and public safety. Such aliens have not been identified or inspected by Federal immigration officers to determine their admissibility to the United States. The recent surge of illegal immigration at the southern border with Mexico has placed a significant strain on Federal resources and overwhelmed agencies charged with border security and immigration enforcement, as well as the local communities into which many of the aliens are placed.

    Careless wording. SOME such people such threats, but not all. All pose POTENTIAL threats. Either alternative wording would be acceptable.

    Transnational criminal organizations operate sophisticated drug- and human-trafficking networks and smuggling operations on both sides of the southern border, contributing to a significant increase in violent crime and United States deaths from dangerous drugs. Among those who illegally enter are those who seek to harm Americans through acts of terror or criminal conduct. Continued illegal immigration presents a clear and present danger to the interests of the United States.

    I disagree with the implications of the drug-trafficking references; they are bull$#@! and speak against individual liberty under tacit presumptions that hold no validity in a free land. They are, therefore, anti-liberty no matter how good the intentions.

    Federal immigration law both imposes the responsibility and provides the means for the Federal Government, in cooperation with border States, to secure the Nation's southern border. Although Federal immigration law provides a robust framework for Federal-State partnership in enforcing our immigration laws and the Congress has authorized and provided appropriations to secure our borders the Federal Government has failed to discharge this basic sovereign responsibility. The purpose of this order is to direct executive departments and agencies (agencies) to deploy all lawful means to secure the Nation's southern border, to prevent further illegal immigration into the United States, and to repatriate illegal aliens swiftly, consistently, and humanely.

    This wording is of a far better construction. I see nothing wrong in this, assuming the basic validity of "government", "law", and so on.

    Sec. 2. Policy. It is the policy of the executive branch to:

    (a) secure the southern border of the United States through the immediate construction of a physical wall on the southern border, monitored and supported by adequate personnel so as to prevent illegal immigration, drug and human trafficking, and acts of terrorism;

    The wall fails miserably. The immigration and terrorism justifications are in themselves valid reasons for taking measures, but the stated measure is no solution. I have no desire to make my country look like 1961 Berlin. Let us not even mention the horrific waste of resources this represents. Put PEOPLE on the border, not walls. Put them there with the right orders and much good would be accomplished with a minimum of the evil. IMO, of course.

    (b) detain individuals apprehended on suspicion of violating Federal or State law, including Federal immigration law, pending further proceedings regarding those violations;
    Seems broad and vague, but I suppose the details are to be found in "law". Fair enough, all else equal.

    (c) expedite determinations of apprehended individuals' claims of eligibility to remain in the United States;
    So far as it goes, I would call this very good. There is nothing in the general issue that would demand this, and yet it is included. It certainly speaks well-ish for the intentions. The proof of the pudding shall be in the tasting.

    (d) remove promptly those individuals whose legal claims to remain in the United States have been lawfully rejected, after any appropriate civil or criminal sanctions have been imposed; and

    (e) cooperate fully with States and local law enforcement in enacting Federal-State partnerships to enforce Federal immigration priorities, as well as State monitoring and detention programs that are consistent with Federal law and do not undermine Federal immigration priorities.
    Clean.

    Sec. 3. Definitions. (a) "Asylum officer" has the meaning given the term in section 235(b)(1)(E) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1225(b)(1)).

    (b) "Southern border" shall mean the contiguous land border between the United States and Mexico, including all points of entry.

    (c) "Border States" shall mean the States of the United States immediately adjacent to the contiguous land border between the United States and Mexico.

    (d) Except as otherwise noted, "the Secretary" shall refer to the Secretary of Homeland Security.

    (e) "Wall" shall mean a contiguous, physical wall or other similarly secure, contiguous, and impassable physical barrier.

    (f) "Executive department" shall have the meaning given in section 101 of title 5, United States Code.

    (g) "Regulations" shall mean any and all Federal rules, regulations, and directives lawfully promulgated by agencies.

    (h) "Operational control" shall mean the prevention of all unlawful entries into the United States, including entries by terrorists, other unlawful aliens, instruments of terrorism, narcotics, and other contraband.

    Aside from the "wall" and "drug" silliness, I nothing here that stands out.
    Sec. 4. Physical Security of the Southern Border of the United States. The Secretary shall immediately take the following steps to obtain complete operational control, as determined by the Secretary, of the southern border:

    (a) In accordance with existing law, including the Secure Fence Act and IIRIRA, take all appropriate steps to immediately plan, design, and construct a physical wall along the southern border, using appropriate materials and technology to most effectively achieve complete operational control of the southern border;

    (b) Identify and, to the extent permitted by law, allocate all sources of Federal funds for the planning, designing, and constructing of a physical wall along the southern border;

    (c) Project and develop long-term funding requirements for the wall, including preparing Congressional budget requests for the current and upcoming fiscal years; and

    (d) Produce a comprehensive study of the security of the southern border, to be completed within 180 days of this order, that shall include the current state of southern border security, all geophysical and topographical aspects of the southern border, the availability of Federal and State resources necessary to achieve complete operational control of the southern border, and a strategy to obtain and maintain complete operational control of the southern border.
    More of same.

    Sec. 5. Detention Facilities. (a) The Secretary shall take all appropriate action and allocate all legally available resources to immediately construct, operate, control, or establish contracts to construct, operate, or control facilities to detain aliens at or near the land border with Mexico.

    (b) The Secretary shall take all appropriate action and allocate all legally available resources to immediately assign asylum officers to immigration detention facilities for the purpose of accepting asylum referrals and conducting credible fear determinations pursuant to section 235(b)(1) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1225(b)(1)) and applicable regulations and reasonable fear determinations pursuant to applicable regulations.

    (c) The Attorney General shall take all appropriate action and allocate all legally available resources to immediately assign immigration judges to immigration detention facilities operated or controlled by the Secretary, or operated or controlled pursuant to contract by the Secretary, for the purpose of conducting proceedings authorized under title 8, chapter 12, subchapter II, United States Code.
    Don't we already have plenty of "facilities"? Do we really need to build more.I say catch them, give then ineligibles a good beating... nothing severe, just something they will remember, and put them back over the border.


    Sec. 9. Foreign Aid Reporting Requirements. The head of each executive department and agency shall identify and quantify all sources of direct and indirect Federal aid or assistance to the Government of Mexico on an annual basis over the past five years, including all bilateral and multilateral development aid, economic assistance, humanitarian aid, and military aid. Within 30 days of the date of this order, the head of each executive department and agency shall submit this information to the Secretary of State. Within 60 days of the date of this order, the Secretary shall submit to the President a consolidated report reflecting the levels of such aid and assistance that has been provided annually, over each of the past five years.
    The leverage. I like this part. What is the economic interest worth to the MX economy, plus the foreign aid? I would bet it is more than their idiotic PC politics, meaning the Mexicans are likely to toe the American immigration line, rather than risk gutting their economy when NAFTA gets tossed, high tariffs imposed, and all US companies pull out.

    Sec. 10. Federal-State Agreements. It is the policy of the executive branch to empower State and local law enforcement agencies across the country to perform the functions of an immigration officer in the interior of the United States to the maximum extent permitted by law.

    (a) In furtherance of this policy, the Secretary shall immediately take appropriate action to engage with the Governors of the States, as well as local officials, for the purpose of preparing to enter into agreements under section 287(g) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1357(g)).
    Setting the trap to force states to follow law. This could be really cool, or really bad. Time will tell. Also depends much on what the so-called "law" says. But I am inclined to be on board with making the idiots giving sanctuary to the criminals suffer greatly.

    (b) To the extent permitted by law, and with the consent of State or local officials, as appropriate, the Secretary shall take appropriate action, through agreements under section 287(g) of the INA, or otherwise, to authorize State and local law enforcement officials, as the Secretary determines are qualified and appropriate, to perform the functions of immigration officers in relation to the investigation, apprehension, or detention of aliens in the United States under the direction and the supervision of the Secretary. Such authorization shall be in addition to, rather than in place of, Federal performance of these duties.

    (c) To the extent permitted by law, the Secretary may structure each agreement under section 287(g) of the INA in the manner that provides the most effective model for enforcing Federal immigration laws and obtaining operational control over the border for that jurisdiction.

    Sec. 11. Parole, Asylum, and Removal. It is the policy of the executive branch to end the abuse of parole and asylum provisions currently used to prevent the lawful removal of removable aliens.

    (a) The Secretary shall immediately take all appropriate action to ensure that the parole and asylum provisions of Federal immigration law are not illegally exploited to prevent the removal of otherwise removable aliens.

    (b) The Secretary shall take all appropriate action, including by promulgating any appropriate regulations, to ensure that asylum referrals and credible fear determinations pursuant to section 235(b)(1) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1125(b)(1)) and 8 CFR 208.30, and reasonable fear determinations pursuant to 8 CFR 208.31, are conducted in a manner consistent with the plain language of those provisions.
    Nothing overtly troublesome, but the reality turns very much on how all this language is interpreted.

    (c) Pursuant to section 235(b)(1)(A)(iii)(I) of the INA, the Secretary shall take appropriate action to apply, in his sole and unreviewable discretion, the provisions of section 235(b)(1)(A)(i) and (ii) of the INA to the aliens designated under section 235(b)(1)(A)(iii)(II).
    May not be illegal, but this bit is very disturbing. "Unreviewable" swings wide the gates to corruption, all good intentions notwithstanding.

    (d) The Secretary shall take appropriate action to ensure that parole authority under section 212(d)(5) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1182(d)(5)) is exercised only on a case-by-case basis in accordance with the plain language of the statute, and in all circumstances only when an individual demonstrates urgent humanitarian reasons or a significant public benefit derived from such parole.

    (e) The Secretary shall take appropriate action to require that all Department of Homeland Security personnel are properly trained on the proper application of section 235 of the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 (8 U.S.C. 1232) and section 462(g)(2) of the Homeland Security Act of 2002 (6 U.S.C. 279(g)(2)), to ensure that unaccompanied alien children are properly processed, receive appropriate care and placement while in the custody of the Department of Homeland Security, and, when appropriate, are safely repatriated in accordance with law.

    Sec. 12. Authorization to Enter Federal Lands. The Secretary, in conjunction with the Secretary of the Interior and any other heads of agencies as necessary, shall take all appropriate action to:

    (a) permit all officers and employees of the United States, as well as all State and local officers as authorized by the Secretary, to have access to all Federal lands as necessary and appropriate to implement this order; and

    (b) enable those officers and employees of the United States, as well as all State and local officers as authorized by the Secretary, to perform such actions on Federal lands as the Secretary deems necessary and appropriate to implement this order.

    Sec. 13. Priority Enforcement. The Attorney General shall take all appropriate steps to establish prosecution guidelines and allocate appropriate resources to ensure that Federal prosecutors accord a high priority to prosecutions of offenses having a nexus to the southern border.

    Sec. 14. Government Transparency. The Secretary shall, on a monthly basis and in a publicly available way, report statistical data on aliens apprehended at or near the southern border using a uniform method of reporting by all Department of Homeland Security components, in a format that is easily understandable by the public.

    Sec. 15. Reporting. Except as otherwise provided in this order, the Secretary, within 90 days of the date of this order, and the Attorney General, within 180 days, shall each submit to the President a report on the progress of the directives contained in this order.

    Sec. 16. Hiring. The Office of Personnel Management shall take appropriate action as may be necessary to facilitate hiring personnel to implement this order.

    Sec. 17. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

    (i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

    (ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

    (b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

    (c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

    DONALD J. TRUMP

    THE WHITE HOUSE,
    January 25, 2017."


    This will play out in accord with interpretation. We won't know until we know.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.



  24. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyJeff View Post
    I too read it. I agree with you on this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by TommyJeff View Post
    Article I gives the federal government immigration power for citizenship so long as its uniform. If your argument is that congress has no authority for non-uniform immigration laws then you are, possibly correctly, pointing to the unconstitutionality of green cards, refuge status, etc. But if that's where your pointing then the president is doing his job to 'check' congress and this order prevents congress from having non-uniform immigration.
    Quote Originally Posted by TommyJeff View Post
    which law did he "make" in this particular case?
    Quote Originally Posted by TommyJeff View Post
    i enjoy most everything Amash writes but this is an area I wish he'd explain better. Green card holders aren't US citizens. This directive does deport green card holders either. I know he didn't say that but i wish he was more clear to explain the "ban" for green card holders isn't a ban. It says a green card holder, like all non citizens, may need to go before a judge prior to entry into the country after they are overseas. That judge is to determine the authenticity of the person's documentation prior to letting them enter the country. I sure welcome more Amash quotes if anyone has them so I can better understand his point.
    Amash is ignorant on this issue. This is where an originalist/textualist interpration of the u.s. constitution conflicts with the illiberal view which is to interpret the u.s. constitution according to societal "needs". The u.s. constitution itself recognizes that there is such thing as "alien" ,and citizen. That clear distinction itself is so clear that "visa" is obviously NOT a citizen, but a permitted traveler who is not native to the u.s.

    Take for instance if the united states of america by theory was in war against country A.......and country A has 10,000 of its citizens inside of the United States holding visas....guess what? that puts the united states at risk . Therefore yes the president has the authority vested in him according to broad powers in the united states constitution to defend nationally the united states borders against foreign and domestic threats. Take for instance all the idiots who are protesting for stuff like amnesty 10 years ago all the way back to the may day marches under the Bush era...and Obama era....lots of illegal mexican immigrants who protested,and many of them who take part are saboteurs to our city ordinances,and state laws, and federal laws.As much as a libertarian would like to argue that this is "authoritarianism"......the founders set it up this way for a reason so that we would never as citizens become the MINORITY with no voice or representation of ourselves.
    It was too weird to live, and too rare to die - hunter s. thompson .
    ..this is the darkest timeline..

  25. #24

    Default

    "Change, however, was on the horizon. The Social Wars, or War of the Allies, would alter the status of the allies. While his fellow Romans in the Senate were making further attempts at restricting citizenship for the allied(allies often tribal class,not citizens mostly) communities, the tribune M. Livius Drusus was proposing to grant them full and equal citizenship. In 91 BCE his assassination initiated the Social Wars (91 – 89 BCE) - one of the deadliest in all of Roman history. The Etruscans and Umbrians were threatening to secede. Riots and unrest (even outside the Italian peninsula) soon followed. The Senate told the populace that if these people became citizens they would overrun the city. However, calmer minds prevailed and as a result, full citizenship was finally granted to all people (slaves excluded) in the entire Italian peninsula (at least initially) for those who had not taken up arms against Rome. Later, Julius Caesar, the dictator for life, would extend citizenship beyond Italy and grant it to the people of Spain and Gaul.
    (obviously its about power).
    The definition of what is was to be Roman was changing; in fact, the idea of what was “Latin” was becoming, as one historian expressed, less ethnic and more political. And, in Rome, many of the old questions arose such as how were the existing institutions to deal with these new citizens.
    These new citizens were to learn what it was to be called a Roman. Historian Tom Holland said that to be a Roman citizen meant that a person realized that he was truly free. However, there were stipulations placed on this new citizenship. The Roman citizen, whether inside or outside the city, must put aside the sense of the individual and focus on the good of the community."
    http://www.ancient.eu/article/859/
    History of the Roman Republic and its transition into dictatorship.... bare in mind that 2/3rds of the Roman Military were "allies" (non roman citizens), and this was a political move , not only between senators, but the first roman dictator used it to advantage to make Spain and Gaul roman citizens.
    Last edited by CaptainAmerica; 02-01-2017 at 05:09 PM.
    It was too weird to live, and too rare to die - hunter s. thompson .
    ..this is the darkest timeline..

  26. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyJeff View Post
    Not so sure about the article 4 part. I agree with you zippy.
    But article 1 section 8 deals with immigration(uniform naturalization), it's a congressional power and the president can direct the executive branch in such a way as to how they will carry out the law.
    Naturalization is separate from immigration. Naturalization is the process of a non- citizen becoming one. The Constitution says nothing about immigration. But if you have a process by which those not born in your country become citizens then it must be allowed for people to enter your country (immigrate) in the first place.
    Help me keep posting. Please donate here: http://tinyurl.com/2g9mqh

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  27. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyJeff View Post
    i enjoy most everything Amash writes but this is an area I wish he'd explain better. Green card holders aren't US citizens.
    They are immigrants.

    He didn't say or imply they were citizens.

  28. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyJeff View Post
    Not so sure about the article 4 part. I agree with you zippy.
    But article 1 section 8 deals with immigration(uniform naturalization), it's a congressional power and the president can direct the executive branch in such a way as to how they will carry out the law.
    No. It only deals with naturalization. The power to establish a uniform code of naturalization does not in any way imply a power to limit immigration, much less other travel in and out of the country, or the ability to work here, or any of the other countless powers the feds have taken on in their mission to control immigration.

  29. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyJeff View Post
    Article I gives the federal government immigration power for citizenship so long as its uniform.
    No it doesn't.

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Naturalization is separate from immigration. Naturalization is the process of a non- citizen becoming one. The Constitution says nothing about immigration. But if you have a process by which those not born in your country become citizens then it must be allowed for people to enter your country (immigrate) in the first place.
    Not necessarily. People might enter without permission - refugees - and can not be sent back. -rep
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  31. #30

    Default

    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast





Similar Threads

  1. Feds find border drones don’t actually make border more secure
    By tangent4ronpaul in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-07-2015, 08:10 AM
  2. Lawmakers told Constitution requires secure border
    By RDM in forum U.S. Constitution
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-27-2013, 08:25 PM
  3. Not One Mile of Border Secure, Texas Sheriff Says
    By bobbyw24 in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-12-2011, 07:17 AM
  4. Why Obama won't secure the border
    By Zulator in forum National Sovereignty
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-02-2010, 03:00 PM
  5. Is Ron Paul our only hope for a secure border?
    By sdnet in forum Member Works Spotlight
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-10-2007, 11:21 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •