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Thread: Breaking news. Trump "I've been told torture absolutely works"

  1. #1

    Breaking news. Trump "I've been told torture absolutely works"

    Just saw the headline on CNN. I'm posting this from my phone so I don't have an easy way to pay the link. You know what's really going to be torture? Watching pro liberty trumpeters try to spin this one. Actually it should be entertaining.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  3. #2
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    Here is the story
    http://https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/01/25/politics/donald-trump-waterboarding-torture/index.html?client=safari
    Trump on waterboarding: 'We have to fight fire with fire'
    By Dan Merica, CNN
    Updated 5:14 PM EST, Wed January 25, 2017

    Story highlights
    "Do I feel it works? Absolutely, I feel it works," Trump said about torture
    Democrats and Republicans alike have shot down the idea of bringing back torture methods
    (CNN) President Donald Trump said he wants to "fight fire with fire" when it comes to stopping terrorism, suggesting that he could be open to bringing back torture because he "absolutely" believes it works.

    By reinstating enhanced interrogation, Trump would violate a US law ratified by the Senate in 2015 and go against the view of Defense Secretary James Mattis. CIA Director Mike Pompeo told senators earlier this month that he wouldn't sanction the use of torture, though he later said he would consider bringing back waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation measures under certain circumstances.

    In an interview with ABC News, Trump said "people at the highest level of intelligence" have told him that torture does work, something military experts have refuted. He went on to say, however, that he will listen to what his Cabinet secretaries have to say about the issue.


    "When ISIS is doing things that no one has ever heard of, since medieval times, would I feel strongly about waterboarding?" Trump said. "As far as I'm concerned, we have to fight fire with fire."

    Trump's argument was that ISIS is beheading people and posting the videos online, but that the United States is "not allowed to do anything."

    "We're not playing on an even field," Trump said. "I want to do everything within the bounds of what you're allowed to do legally. But do I feel it works? Absolutely, I feel it works."

    Democrats and Republicans alike have shot down the idea of bringing back torture methods that were used by the Bush administration after the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001.

    Pompeo said earlier this month that he would "absolutely not" restart the CIA's use of enhanced interrogation tactics that fall outside of Army Field Manuals.

    "Moreover, I can't imagine I would be asked that by the President-elect," Pompeo said during his confirmation hearing.

    But in a series of written responses to questions from members of the Senate intelligence committee, Pompeo later said that while current permitted interrogation techniques are limited to those contained in the Army Field Manual, he was open to making changes to that policy.

    The Senate voted overwhelming to ban torture across the US government in 2015, codifying a ban President Barack Obama issued by executive order shortly after he was sworn in in 2009. Obama then signed the updated defense authorization bill into law.

    Sen. John Thune, a South Dakota Republican, said the use of torture is "settled law" and that "Congress has spoken."

    The Senate intelligence committee produced a nearly 7,000-page classified report on torture, detention and interrogation after the George W. Bush administration brought back the practice. The authors of the report found the practice was ineffective and did not produce actionable intelligence.

    "Reconstituting this appalling program would compromise our values, our morals and our standing as a world leader -- this cannot happen," Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat, said in a statement on Wednesday. "We can't base national security policies on what works on television -- policies must be grounded in reality."

  4. #3
    Meh, maybe sometimes it works. It's unconstitutional to torture US citizens. So that will never be ok.

    I can see very, very few instances where it would be useful. Say you have definitive proof of an impending attack. Say you have top terror leaders like Al.Baghdadi or OBL etc in custody. Fine give it a go once and see if they talk.

    We should not be waterboarding a guy who drove a truck for OBL in Afghanistan 10 years ago every day for years just to see if he has any info.

    So very high standard of proof. Potus has to personally sign off on it and be publicly accountable for it.

  5. #4
    They're chopping off heads!
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  6. #5
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Meh, maybe sometimes it works. It's unconstitutional to torture US citizens. So that will never be ok.

    I can see very, very few instances where it would be useful. Say you have definitive proof of an impending attack. Say you have top terror leaders like Al.Baghdadi or OBL etc in custody. Fine give it a go once and see if they talk.

    We should not be waterboarding a guy who drove a truck for OBL in Afghanistan 10 years ago every day for years just to see if he has any info.

    So very high standard of proof. Potus has to personally sign off on it and be publicly accountable for it.
    Why torture people like Osama Bin Laden when you could have just taken him off the payroll?

    According to Seymour Hersh almost everything you were told about the raid to "kill" Osama Bin Laden was a lie anyway. His sources tell us that Pakistan walked the special forces into the compound that was actually his prison and collected the reward after he was summarily executed. The two fake and conflicting stories put out by the Navy SEALS who claimed to have killed him show that there was never an attempt to capture OBL alive. If they really wanted to get information from him.......?

    Oh, and torture isn't one of those things that you can say "Well...we'll use it sometimes when we really really need it." If we use it we use it. You never know when that "high value target" is really innocent until its too late. Read the book Ghost Plane by Stephen Gray. It goes over the CIA extraordinary rendition program. It also details the harrowing experience of a Canadian Muslim that the CIA snatched and grabbed because they saw him leaving a mosque with someone they suspected of terrorism. He was taken by the CIA to Syria where he was tortured with razor blades on his genitals. Ultimately even George W. Bush had to admit he was most likely innocent. How do you unring that bell?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Why torture people like Osama Bin Laden when you could have just taken him off the payroll?

    According to Seymour Hersh almost everything you were told about the raid to "kill" Osama Bin Laden was a lie anyway. His sources tell us that Pakistan walked the special forces into the compound that was actually his prison and collected the reward after he was summarily executed. The two fake and conflicting stories put out by the Navy SEALS who claimed to have killed him show that there was never an attempt to capture OBL alive. If they really wanted to get information from him.......?

    Oh, and torture isn't one of those things that you can say "Well...we'll use it sometimes when we really really need it." If we use it we use it. You never know when that "high value target" is really innocent until its too late. Read the book Ghost Plane by Stephen Gray. It goes over the CIA extraordinary rendition program. It also details the harrowing experience of a Canadian Muslim that the CIA snatched and grabbed because they saw him leaving a mosque with someone they suspected of terrorism. He was taken by the CIA to Syria where he was tortured with razor blades on his genitals. Ultimately even George W. Bush had to admit he was most likely innocent. How do you unring that bell?
    Like I said, only the top leadership, only with an imminent attack and get potus publicly accountable on paper. Those are very high standards. I can't see something like that happening more than once a decade or more. I could live with that morally. Beyond that I think it's wrong.


    We are never going to know what really happened with OBL, but I am inclined to believe the theory that seals blew his skull apart for fun. They call it "canoeing". Google it. Apparently seals had a real problem with it and no accountability.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Like I said, only the top leadership, only with an imminent attack and get potus publicly accountable on paper. Those are very high standards. I can't see something like that happening more than once a decade or more. I could live with that morally. Beyond that I think it's wrong.
    Nice in theory, but in practice what happens is what I described. Low level suspects who may be innocent or guilty get their balls sliced. Supposedly it was the torture of some low level minion that led to the most likely fake raid to get Osama Bin Laden.

    We are never going to know what really happened with OBL, but I am inclined to believe the theory that seals blew his skull apart for fun. They call it "canoeing". Google it. Apparently seals had a real problem with it and no accountability.
    Two different SEALS gave incompatible accounts of what happened to the point that one or both of them had to have been lying.

    The Pentagon said the lost the DNA evidence confirming death.

    They said they had pictures. They released pictures. Then after the pictures were debunked they said their were no pictures.

    All of the helmet cams supposedly malfunctioned at once.

    The only picture the released from the compound is one of supposedly of Osama Bin Laden seen from the back watching TV. It doesn't look like him.

    Google Saving Private Lynch. Fake "heroic raids" that are put out as propaganda until they are completely debunked have happened before.

    Believe what you want but there has been no real evidence released to show proof of death.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    They start out with Trump. Basically he says that he feels it works, and others believe that it works, and he will do "everything within the bounds of what you are allowed to do legally". He also says that he will rely on the console of Pompeo and Mattis.

    As Rand points out, it is against the law right now, and Executive Orders do not supercede law.

    Those who believe that torture works have been brainwashed by Hollywood and neocons who constantly push hypothetical fantasies about how it works in a "ticking time bomb" scenario. It should be noted that even many of the supporters of torture use the caveat of only in that extreme hypothetical, but not as a standard practice. Certainly not "yes, absolutely it works" as Trump is saying.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  12. #10
    Strategically if Trump's intention is to eliminate Islamist extremists then he should represent strength and instill fear about being caught.


  13. #11
    This is what Bush, Obama and Clinton believe. They just weren't honest/stupid enough to say it out loud.
    ...

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    They start out with Trump. Basically he says that he feels it works, and others believe that it works, and he will do "everything within the bounds of what you are allowed to do legally". He also says that he will rely on the console of Pompeo and Mattis.

    As Rand points out, it is against the law right now, and Executive Orders do not supercede law.

    Those who believe that torture works have been brainwashed by Hollywood and neocons who constantly push hypothetical fantasies about how it works in a "ticking time bomb" scenario. It should be noted that even many of the supporters of torture use the caveat of only in that extreme hypothetical, but not as a standard practice. Certainly not "yes, absolutely it works" as Trump is saying.
    I said maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. I don't feel brainwashed. Ticking time bomb scenario. For arguments sake, lets assume it is legitimate. We have a high value terrorist leader in custody. I'm morally ok with him suffering in this one scenario if it save Americans. Otherwise I am almost always against torture.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Strategically if Trump's intention is to eliminate Islamist extremists then he should represent strength and instill fear about being caught.

    Case in point. More leftist Hollywood propaganda glorifying torture, brutality and gratuitous violence.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Just saw the headline on CNN. I'm posting this from my phone so I don't have an easy way to pay the link. You know what's really going to be torture? Watching pro liberty trumpeters try to spin this one. Actually it should be entertaining.
    I know this dance.

    It's the Paul Ryan TARP dance.

    Preserve human rights by destroying human rights. Just sometimes though, only for certain circumstances -because every other friggin' thing under the sun including liberty, has already been tried.

    Right or wrong or consistent? Who cares, because fear.
    Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25
    "I think the propaganda machine is the biggest problem that we face today in trying to get the truth out to people."
    Ron Paul

    Please watch, subscribe, like, & share, Ron Paul Liberty Report
    BITCHUTE IS A LIBERTY MINDED ALTERNATIVE TO GOOGLE SUBSIDIARY YOUTUBE

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Just saw the headline on CNN. I'm posting this from my phone so I don't have an easy way to pay the link. You know what's really going to be torture? Watching pro liberty trumpeters try to spin this one. Actually it should be entertaining.
    Trump remains, to me anyway, very much of a mixed bag: a real life version of Bertie Bott's Every Flavour Beans.

    Just as likely to get cherry or chocolate as ear wax or vomit.

    Over the past few days I've been very impressed with some things, and highly suspect of others, such as this, or his CIA pick, or the cop statement.

    At least there's something there rather than a limp and weaksauce continuation of the status quo.

    So, me, personally, I guess I have no choice but to soldier on, support him on the many issues we agree and oppose on issues like this.

  18. #16



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  20. #17
    If you are going to step into the ring you better be ready to fight and win. Why get into the ring if you know you cannot win? Don't go into an MMA cage expecting boxing rules to apply to you while the opponent is out to kick ass.

    In our own country, we see people with defective car blinkers, old men in wheel chairs, deaf people, beaten and tasered for no reason. It would be wise to smarten up and kill high value targets rather than dropping bombs on innocent civilians. Either get the fuch out or figure out how to win and make the terrorists fear being terrorists.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    This is what Bush, Obama and Clinton believe. They just weren't honest/stupid enough to say it out loud.
    The nice thing about Trump is that he doesn't try and hide his ill intentions behind a veil of virtue; he just blurts it out there for everyone to hear. Anyone who thinks this is even remotely different (meaning "fascist") than Obama is running around with the wool pulled over their eyes.

    Like many of us predicted, Trump isn't Rand Paul. He's not the great liberty candidate we need, but this is what we've got. He's certainly not the worst pick for Prez, but...

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Root View Post
    WWRPD?
    Well, glad you asked.

    Here he is today, saying basically the same thing.

    Ron Paul: the best president we will never have.


  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    If you are going to step into the ring you better be ready to fight and win. Why get into the ring if you know you cannot win? Don't go into an MMA cage expecting boxing rules to apply to you while the opponent is out to kick ass.

    In our own country, we see people with defective car blinkers, old men in wheel chairs, deaf people, beaten and tasered for no reason. It would be wise to smarten up and kill high value targets rather than dropping bombs on innocent civilians. Either get the fuch out or figure out how to win and make the terrorists fear being terrorists.
    I think it would be better to torture known, self admitted terrorist leaders than to drone suspected ones.

  24. #21
    Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25
    "I think the propaganda machine is the biggest problem that we face today in trying to get the truth out to people."
    Ron Paul

    Please watch, subscribe, like, & share, Ron Paul Liberty Report
    BITCHUTE IS A LIBERTY MINDED ALTERNATIVE TO GOOGLE SUBSIDIARY YOUTUBE

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Well, glad you asked.

    Here he is today, saying basically the same thing.

    Ron Paul: the best president we will never have.
    Out of ammo
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again.

  26. #23
    Well, he's right.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Why torture people like Osama Bin Laden when you could have just taken him off the payroll?

    According to Seymour Hersh almost everything you were told about the raid to "kill" Osama Bin Laden was a lie anyway. His sources tell us that Pakistan walked the special forces into the compound that was actually his prison and collected the reward after he was summarily executed. The two fake and conflicting stories put out by the Navy SEALS who claimed to have killed him show that there was never an attempt to capture OBL alive. If they really wanted to get information from him.......?

    Oh, and torture isn't one of those things that you can say "Well...we'll use it sometimes when we really really need it." If we use it we use it. You never know when that "high value target" is really innocent until its too late. Read the book Ghost Plane by Stephen Gray. It goes over the CIA extraordinary rendition program. It also details the harrowing experience of a Canadian Muslim that the CIA snatched and grabbed because they saw him leaving a mosque with someone they suspected of terrorism. He was taken by the CIA to Syria where he was tortured with razor blades on his genitals. Ultimately even George W. Bush had to admit he was most likely innocent. How do you unring that bell?
    I don't agree with you all that often, but this time I do.
    This post represents only the opinions of Christian Liberty and not the rest of the forum. Use discretion when reading



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  29. #25
    Trump is not looking to make himself appear to be some kind of great saint, perfect in virtue and meek and humble in disposition. He is not trying to create any false illusions, like those many Presidents before him, including the Drone Coward Obama, who played the empathetic guardian while droning innocent children. Trump says it like he feels it and portrays himself as he is. For better or for worse, that deserves respect. Even though he doesn't even do that honestly, still much better than the one before him.

    Trump has been exposed and knows that everything he does from now on will be attacked and questioned and distorted or ignored, and these attacks will be unrelenting. No President in my lifetime had to deal with such utter opposition and pure madness in the beginning of his inauguration, like the pathetic liberal march which tried to use womanhood as their rallying cry, and wore pink vagina hats and holding obscene placards while trolling strollers with their children at tow. It was like the earth opened up a crack and started bleeding pink stupidity all over itself.

    Or the clearly biased and discredited major media outlets who have manipulated the sheep into getting into bed with the goats.

    Trump is doing things like he has nothing left to lose, because in some ways, it really is the world versus Trump. That is dangerous, but it can also be revolutionary. Time will tell.
    Last edited by TER; 01-25-2017 at 08:03 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Trump remains, to me anyway, very much of a mixed bag: a real life version of Bertie Bott's Every Flavour Beans.

    Just as likely to get cherry or chocolate as ear wax or vomit.

    Over the past few days I've been very impressed with some things, and highly suspect of others, such as this, or his CIA pick, or the cop statement.

    At least there's something there rather than a limp and weaksauce continuation of the status quo.

    So, me, personally, I guess I have no choice but to soldier on, support him on the many issues we agree and oppose on issues like this.
    My sentiment exactly. Well said.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  31. #27
    "Reconstituting this appalling program would compromise our values, our morals and our standing as a world leader -- this cannot happen," Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat, said in a statement on Wednesday.
    I stand with Feinstein?

    wtf is this world coming to?

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  32. #28
    Is chopping off a thief's hand a humane and just punishment?

    Most in the West would say no. But I guarantee countries that do it suffer less theft than countries that don't.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    Well, he's right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    Is chopping off a thief's hand a humane and just punishment?
    how did I know I could count on you two to rim trumps ass on yet another anti-liberty stance?

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  34. #30
    Last week Trump was a lunatic for not trusting "intelligence officials." What is it now?

    Of course the answer is to never trust the CIA, intellectual honesty required.
    They confronted me in the day of my calamity, but the Lord was my support.

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