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Thread: Trump Plans a Major Naval Build-up; Possible BLOCKADE of Spratly Islands

  1. #1

    Trump Plans a Major Naval Build-up; Possible BLOCKADE of Spratly Islands

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN1572M4

    By David Brunnstrom and Matt Spetalnick | WASHINGTON

    The new U.S. administration of President Donald Trump vowed on Monday that the United States would prevent China from taking over territory in international waters in the South China Sea, something Chinese state media has warned would require Washington to "wage war."
    The comments at a briefing from White House spokesman Sean Spicer signaled a sharp departure from years of cautious U.S. handling of China's assertive pursuit of territory claims in Asia, just days after Trump took office on Friday.
    "The U.S. is going to make sure that we protect our interests there," Spicer said when asked if Trump agreed with comments by his Secretary of State nominee, Rex Tillerson, on Jan. 11 that China should not be allowed access to islands it has built in the contested South China Sea.
    "It’s a question of if those islands are in fact in international waters and not part of China proper, then yeah, we’re going to make sure that we defend international territories from being taken over by one country," he said.

    Tillerson's remarks at his Senate confirmation hearing prompted Chinese state media to say the United States would need to "wage war" to bar China's access to the islands where it has built military-length air strips and installed weapons systems.
    Tillerson, who was expected to be confirmed as secretary of State on Monday, was asked at the hearing whether he supported a more aggressive posture toward China and said: "We’re going to have to send China a clear signal that, first, the island-building stops and, second, your access to those islands also is not going to be allowed.”
    The former Exxon Mobil Corp (XOM.N) chairman and chief executive did not elaborate on what might be done to deny China access to the islands.
    But analysts said his comments, like those of Spicer, suggested the possibility of U.S. military action, or even a naval blockade, that would risk armed confrontation with China, an increasingly formidable nuclear-armed military power. It is also the world's second-largest economy and the target of accusations by Trump that it is stealing American jobs.
    Spicer declined to elaborate when asked how the United States could enforce such a move against China, except to say: “I think, as we develop further, we’ll have more information on it.”
    RISK OF DANGEROUS ESCALATION
    Military experts said that while the U.S. Navy has extensive capabilities in Asia to stage blockading operations with ships, submarines and planes, any such move against China's growing naval fleets would risk dangerous escalation.
    Aides have said that Trump plans a major naval build-up in East Asia to counter China's rise.
    China's embassy in Washington did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the White House remarks.
    China's Foreign Ministry said earlier this month it could not guess what Tillerson meant by his remarks, which came after Trump questioned Washington's longstanding and highly sensitive "one-China" policy over Taiwan.
    Washington-based South China Sea expert Mira Rapp-Hooper at the Center for a New American Security called the threats to bar China's access in the South China Sea "incredible" and said it had no basis in international law.


    "A blockade - which is what would be required to actually bar access - is an act of war," she added.
    "The Trump administration has begun to draw red lines in Asia that they will almost certainly not be able to uphold, but they may nonetheless be very destabilizing to the relationship with China, invite crises, and convince the rest of the world that the United States is an unreliable partner."
    Bonnie Glaser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies think tank called Spicer's remarks "worrisome" and said the new administration was "sending confusing and conflicting messages."
    Dean Cheng, a China expert at the conservative Heritage Foundation, said Spicer's remarks showed the South China Sea was an important issue for the Trump administration.
    He said it was significant that neither Spicer nor Tillerson had been specific as to what actions would be taken and this left open the possibility that economic measures - instead of military steps - could be used against China and firms that carry out island building.
    (Reporting by David Brunnstrom and Matt Spetalnick; Editing by Andrew Hay)

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...




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  3. #2
    There are no Chinese in the south China sea. Period.

  4. #3
    It is an unwinable declaration and just plain dumb.

    Anyone paying attention to the Asia Pacific developments
    over the past 6 months especially KNOWS
    the 'allies' that we THOUGHT we had are RETHINKING everything
    in terms of alliances.
    From Australia to Vietnam to Indonesia to Philippines to S. Korea and Japan.
    They all know whassup.

    The days of plunder and bullying are over.
    Remember the Maine was the start...
    this past year was the finish.
    It was a good run. It's over.
    Move along and let China's neighbors work it out.

    PS... anything that floats ABOVE the water facing today's anti-ship technology is a sitting duck.

    Russia-Japan Military exercise was held in the Sea of Japan


    Today, ship detachment of the Pacific Fleet, including Admiral Tributs major anti-submarine ship and Boris Butoma major tanker,
    have finished its visit to the Maizuru port (Japan).

    Warships of two countries held the SAREX naval joint exercise in the Wakasa Bay in the Sea of Japan.
    Despite complicated weather conditions, two parties assessed the exercise as successful.

    The Russian Navy ship detachment arrived in the Maizuru port on January 21.

    The Russian warships have been performing tasks under command of Rear Admiral Eduard Mikhailov since October 2016.
    Last edited by goldenequity; 01-23-2017 at 09:33 PM.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    PS... anything that floats ABOVE the water facing today's anti-ship technology is a sitting duck.
    I certainly agree with this

    subs+cruise > carrier+fighters

    china is heavily fortified w/ subs off their coast in deep bunkers

    not to be $#@!ed with

    It is an unwinable declaration and just plain dumb.
    yep

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  6. #5
    Thought title said he was going to block spotify.

    Had me worried for a second
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  7. #6
    Asian TPP nations seek to salvage trade accord after U.S. exit (Uh-huh )

    Australia and New Zealand said on Tuesday they hope to salvage the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP)
    by encouraging China and other Asian nations to join the trade pact after U.S. President Donald Trump kept his promise to pull out of the accord.

    Australia opens door to China in push to save TPP

    SYDNEY: Australia said Tuesday it was working to recast the Trans-Pacific Partnership without the United States
    and opened the door for China to sign up after President Donald Trump ditched the huge trade pact.
    The deal included a dozen Asia-Pacific nations which together account for 40 percent of the global economy.
    Canberra is floating a “TPP 12 minus one“, with Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull
    saying his government was in “active discussions” with other signatories including Japan, New Zealand and Singapore
    on how to salvage the agreement.





    ►Routine/Year after year 'Joint Military Exercises' w/ US Naval fleets
    are being refused and canceled.
    The most recent was S. Korea.
    Last edited by goldenequity; 01-24-2017 at 07:53 AM.

  8. #7
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN1572M4
    South China Sea | Tue Jan 24, 2017 | 7:24am EST
    China says will protect South China Sea sovereignty


    01:05



    By Ben Blanchard and David Brunnstrom | BEIJING/WASHINGTON
    China said on Tuesday it had "irrefutable" sovereignty over disputed islands in the South China Sea after the White House vowed to defend "international territories" in the strategic waterway.
    White House spokesman Sean Spicer in his comments on Monday signaled a sharp departure from years of cautious U.S. handling of China's assertive pursuit of territorial claims in Asia.
    "The U.S. is going to make sure that we protect our interests there," Spicer said when asked if Trump agreed with comments by his secretary of state nominee, Rex Tillerson. On Jan. 11, Tillerson said China should not be allowed access to islands it has built in the contested South China Sea.
    "It's a question of if those islands are in fact in international waters and not part of China proper, then yeah, we're going to make sure that we defend international territories from being taken over by one country," Spicer said.
    Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying told a regular news briefing on Tuesday "the United States is not a party to the South China Sea dispute".
    China claims most of the South China Sea, while Taiwan, Malaysia, Vietnam, the Philippines and Brunei claims parts of the sea that commands strategic sealanes and has rich fishing grounds along with oil and gas deposits.
    China's sovereignty over the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea was "irrefutable" Hua said. But China was also dedicated to protecting freedom of navigation and wants talks with nations directly involved to find a peaceful solution.
    "We urge the United States to respect the facts, speak and act cautiously to avoid harming the peace and stability of the South China Sea," Hua said.
    "Our actions in the South China Sea are reasonable and fair. No matter what changes happen in other countries, what they say or what they want to do, China's resolve to protect its sovereignty and maritime rights in the South China Sea will not change," she added.






    FILE PHOTO - An aerial photo taken though a glass window of a Philippine military plane shows the alleged on-going land reclamation by China on mischief reef in the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea, west of Palawan, Philippines, May 11, 2015. REUTERS/Ritchie B. Tongo/Pool/File Photo





    BAR ACCESS TO ISLANDS
    Tillerson's remarks at his Senate confirmation hearing prompted Chinese state media to say at the time that the United States would need to "wage war" to bar China's access to the islands, where it has built military-length air strips and installed weapons systems.
    Tillerson was asked at the hearing whether he supported a more aggressive posture toward China and said: "We're going to have to send China a clear signal that, first, the island-building stops and, second, your access to those islands also is not going to be allowed."
    The former Exxon Mobil Corp (XOM.N) chairman and chief executive did not elaborate on what might be done to deny China access to the islands.
    But analysts said his comments, like those of Spicer, suggested the possibility of U.S. military action, or even a naval blockade. Such action would risk an armed confrontation with China, an increasingly formidable nuclear-armed military power. It is also the world's second-largest economy and the target of Trump accusations it is stealing American jobs.
    Spicer declined to elaborate when asked how the United States could enforce such a move against China, except to say: "I think, as we develop further, we'll have more information on it."
    Tillerson narrowly won approval from a Senate committee on Monday and is expected to win confirmation from the full Senate.
    RISK OF DANGEROUS ESCALATION
    Military experts said that while the U.S. Navy has extensive capabilities in Asia to stage blockading operations with ships, submarines and planes, any such move against China's growing naval fleets would risk a dangerous escalation.
    Aides have said that Trump plans a major naval build-up in East Asia to counter China's rise.
    Also In South China Sea



    China's foreign ministry said earlier this month it could not guess what Tillerson meant by his remarks, which came after Trump questioned Washington's longstanding and highly sensitive "one-China" policy over Taiwan.
    Washington-based South China Sea expert Mira Rapp-Hooper at the Center for a New American Security called the threats to bar China's access in the South China Sea "incredible" and said it had no basis in international law.
    "A blockade - which is what would be required to actually bar access - is an act of war," she added.
    "The Trump administration has begun to draw red lines in Asia that they will almost certainly not be able to uphold, but they may nonetheless be very destabilizing to the relationship with China, invite crises, and convince the rest of the world that the United States is an unreliable partner."
    Bonnie Glaser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies think tank called Spicer's remarks "worrisome" and said the new administration was "sending confusing and conflicting messages."
    Dean Cheng, a China expert at the conservative Heritage Foundation, said Spicer's remarks showed the South China Sea was an important issue for the Trump administration.
    He said it was significant that neither Spicer nor Tillerson had been specific as to what actions would be taken and this left open the possibility that economic measures - instead of military steps - could be used against China and firms that carry out island building.
    (Clarifies paragraph 4 attribution)
    (Additional reporting by Matt Spetalnick in Washington, and Christian Shepherd in Beijing; Editing by Andrew Hay and Bill Tarrant)

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  9. #8
    ok, so why exactly is china not allowed to build islands there? Hell, I'd say anybody should be able to go build islands anywhere in international waters and make their own country.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    ok, so why exactly is china not allowed to build islands there? Hell, I'd say anybody should be able to go build islands anywhere in international waters and make their own country.
    because sovereign islands = "territorial waters" = exclusive jurisdiction to tax offshore oil production

    checkmate

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    There are no Chinese in the south China sea. Period.
    Um... you are dead wrong.

    My little brother is on a carrier in the South China Sea and tells me it is crawling with them and that tensions are building. You can bank on that.

    Truth aside, a blockade of China? Doubtful. There is far too much to be lost on both sides if war breaks out between the USA and China. This article is just wring-bait. To wit:


    The former Exxon Mobil Corp (XOM.N) chairman and chief executive did not elaborate on what might be done to deny China access to the islands.
    But analysts said his comments, like those of Spicer, suggested the possibility of U.S. military action, or even a naval blockade, that would risk armed confrontation with Chin
    What a load of bull$#@!. Now the lefties and other panty-wastes will be wringing their hands and going all agog about how Trump is going to bring us into nookyoolrwarz.

    Put it this way, if he or someone else does it, we will have no power to stop it, given the current worldwide political status quo. Until people take governance into their own hands with sufficient knowledge and proper honor, the world will hang by its balls at Theire pleasure. I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for that light to go on.

    Now, if China expropriates the South China Sea, a precedent would be set that stands in square opposition to the notion of free oceans with access by all. If China establishes that hegemony, global trade would be very severely impacted. Consider that the majority of global manufacturing occurs in China. The implications are troubling.

    The only thing I would say about this is that if a blockade were to be instituted, it must be executed not by the USA alone, but in concert with Russia, UK, and so on. Let the Chinese see that they are not quite what they think.

    And honestly, given the hideous realities of today's global political circumstance, were I king, I would remove every Chinese military satellite from orbit. Park a thousand high-yield nukes above China and dictate terms. But we all know how awry THAT is likely to go, given the failings to which even good men are given.

    Deep is the kimchee.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "It’s just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill people’s fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


  13. #11
    China Tells US To "Act And Speak Cautiously" In Response To Spicer "Threat" Over South China Sea

    "We urge the United States to respect the facts, speak and act cautiously
    to avoid harming the peace and stability of the South China Sea,"
    Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Hua said.
    "Our actions in the South China Sea are reasonable and fair.


    China Deploys ICBM System "In Response To Trump's Provocative Remarks"

    Beijing has deployed advanced Dongfeng-41 ICBMs in China's Heilongjiang Province
    according to Chinese media reports based on images,
    possibly leaked to coincide with Donald Trump’s inauguration as US president.
    According to Chinese media, "this is Beijing's response to Trump's provocative remarks on China."
    =============

    I think we're going to see more of this 'leaked' maneuvering from ALL sides.
    I think it's EXACTLY what Trump did
    with the 'Moving the Embassy to Jerusalem' "leak"....
    which
    he then strategically pulled back from.
    It's probably like 'Chapter 5' in the Art of the Deal. hahaha
    Last edited by goldenequity; 01-24-2017 at 11:29 AM.

  14. #12
    Just what business do we have in the south China Sea?

    It does not border any part of the US.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  15. #13
    We need to make the South China Sea great again! It will be safe for democracy.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Um... you are dead wrong.

    My little brother is on a carrier in the South China Sea and tells me it is crawling with them and that tensions are building. You can bank on that.

    Truth aside, a blockade of China? Doubtful. There is far too much to be lost on both sides if war breaks out between the USA and China. This article is just wring-bait. To wit:




    What a load of bull$#@!. Now the lefties and other panty-wastes will be wringing their hands and going all agog about how Trump is going to bring us into nookyoolrwarz.

    Put it this way, if he or someone else does it, we will have no power to stop it, given the current worldwide political status quo. Until people take governance into their own hands with sufficient knowledge and proper honor, the world will hang by its balls at Theire pleasure. I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for that light to go on.

    Now, if China expropriates the South China Sea, a precedent would be set that stands in square opposition to the notion of free oceans with access by all. If China establishes that hegemony, global trade would be very severely impacted. Consider that the majority of global manufacturing occurs in China. The implications are troubling.

    The only thing I would say about this is that if a blockade were to be instituted, it must be executed not by the USA alone, but in concert with Russia, UK, and so on. Let the Chinese see that they are not quite what they think.

    And honestly, given the hideous realities of today's global political circumstance, were I king, I would remove every Chinese military satellite from orbit. Park a thousand high-yield nukes above China and dictate terms. But we all know how awry THAT is likely to go, given the failings to which even good men are given.

    Deep is the kimchee.

    The sarcasm was lost on you wasn't it?

    There are 1.5 million Chinese in the south china sea. The most Chinese ever in the south China sea.

  17. #15
    China-led investment bank attracts 25 new members
    Growing interest in AIIB strengthens Beijing’s bid to play bigger world role

    Simply put.. the Old World Order is being replaced.
    'They' thought they could prevent/control with Military projection using Naval prowess.
    An archaic idea. They can't.
    Truth?
    They will have to compete.
    The days of NGO's to monopolize, overthrow, subvert and dominate are over.
    The World understands and resents it.
    The vanquished will poison their captors and resent their 'captivity' to their last dying breath...
    even
    if they are surrounded by rubble.
    Everybody understands the 'game'. It's over.
    Last edited by goldenequity; 01-24-2017 at 12:04 PM.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Just what business do we have in the south China Sea?

    It does not border any part of the US.
    ^^THIS^^
    There is no spoon.



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  20. #17
    King of Bahrain receives letter from Chinese President



    ... Bahrain News Agency said the Chinese president said during the message
    continued cooperation and continue to work and joint bilateral coordination with the King of Bahrain
    in order to strengthen and develop relations between the two countries.
    Great example of what's in store.
    How do I describe this w/o sounding too cynical?
    Remember when..
    We thought the 'World Order' was organized around the concept of 'human rights?'
    It's over.
    We've all learned that the NWO/Atlanticists have been COMPLETELY/UTTERLY brutal every step along the way.

    So here we have 2 brutal regimes who will TRADE together
    who could give 2 shiits about what the other does domestically
    to it's own citizens.
    Organ trafficking and ISIS be damned.

    Who cares? srsly.... Who DOES care?
    Well I do.. so ME tell U: Love & care about people MORE than things.
    Even if
    the world goes to hell in a handbasket.
    It may get crazy... REALLY crazee now that the 'old order' is collapsing.

  21. #18
    Looking forward to this new era of isolationism and non interventionism.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken


    I don't hate you. You're just some person on the internet who believes in things that aren't real.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Looking forward to this new era of isolationism and non interventionism.

    Spoken like a true supporter of this forum. NOT.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  23. #20
    Any chance China acts preemptively on this, to not allow the naval buildup?

    This would seem to point to "no":

    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    I certainly agree with this

    subs+cruise > carrier+fighters

    china is heavily fortified w/ subs off their coast in deep bunkers

    not to be $#@!ed with



    yep

  24. #21
    Maybe send a bunch of archaic carriers or whatever kind of junk floaters over there for China to sink. Then when they fire on those ships fire on the submarines from remote location.

    Whatever happens we need to make sure to take the oil and of course win big!

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Looking forward to this new era of isolationism and non interventionism.
    We can hope- but I won't lay bets.
    There is no spoon.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    King of Bahrain receives letter from Chinese President





    Great example of what's in store.
    How do I describe this w/o sounding too cynical?
    Remember when..
    We thought the 'World Order' was organized around the concept of 'human rights?'
    It's over.
    We've all learned that the NWO/Atlanticists have been COMPLETELY/UTTERLY brutal every step along the way.

    So here we have 2 brutal regimes who will TRADE together
    who could give 2 shiits about what the other does domestically
    to it's own citizens.
    Organ trafficking and ISIS be damned.

    Who cares? srsly.... Who DOES care?
    Well I do.. so ME tell U: Love & care about people MORE than things.
    Even if
    the world goes to hell in a handbasket.
    It may get crazy... REALLY crazee now that the 'old order' is collapsing.
    Are you sayin that China does not give two Crap$ about climate change?

    The new CIC favorite book is The Art of War. He borrowed ideas of it to write the deal book. I do not think it is smart to challenge the Chinese when one of them wrote the book.

    “All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.”
    ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
    One of my favorite quotes from the book,

    “There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.”
    ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
    USE THIS SITE TO LINK ARTICLES FROM OLIGARCH MEDIA:http://archive.is/ STARVE THE BEAST.
    More Government = Less Freedom
    Communism never disappeared it only changed its name to Social Democrat
    Emotion and Logic mix like oil and water

  27. #24
    China is threatening US Naval/Stategic hegemony with it's expansion in the SCS. Building runways etc on these islands is an aggressive act that Trump shouldn't tolerate. We should pre-emptively blow up such structures and teach those ChiComs a hard lesson.... Don't mess with Uncle Sam


    -Murica

    /sarc
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    The sarcasm was lost on you wasn't it?

    There are 1.5 million Chinese in the south china sea. The most Chinese ever in the south China sea.
    Yes it was. If you were being sarcastic, you need to go back to sarcasm school because what you wrote seemed very seriously unsarcastic.

    Text media are notorious for this loss of nuance.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "It’s just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill people’s fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Just what business do we have in the south China Sea?
    What business does China have in it?

    If we subscribe to the notion of territorial and international waters, as well as that of international law (not saying I do, just working on the realities of the current world arrangement), then China needs to be reeled in. Otherwise, why lie to ourselves about law and the stated conventions when in reality it's anything goes?

    But on the practical side, if China is allowed to do what it is doing... it would seem to set a very dangerous precedent. Today the Spratlys... what next?

    Nobody of a true liberty bent wants to see interferences such as what has been suggested in this thread, as well as in many others. Denouncing such acts has been a central pillar of our philosophy. But men race toward ever lower common denominators. The rise of pure pragmatism and the ouster of any sense of the sacred leads humanity to its doom. Given that men come together in unholy bond to act in concert toward evil ends, what are the rest to do? Shall they stand idly by, only to be consumed at some later date?

    Our circumstance is what it is. We either play to practicality or we expose ourselves that lead inevitably to our destruction.

    It does not border any part of the US.
    Nor does the rest of the Pacific, if I read your meaning correctly.

    I don't like these conditions any more than anyone else, but this is the hand we hold. We either deal with it, or live in a bubble.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "It’s just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill people’s fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    But on the practical side, if China is allowed to do what it is doing... it would seem to set a very dangerous precedent.
    .
    That dangerous precedent has been SOP for our Navy for my whole lifetime.

    China is doing the same in their neighborhood.

    seems more a time for intelligent diplomacy than dick shaking.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  32. #28
    Ron Paul did say one time that the best way to increase the US military presence around the world and do it for way cheaper is to bring all of our submarines out of "mothballs" and place them around the globe in international waters.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    What business does China have in it?
    ANSWER:
    The South China Sea is China’s vital life blood shipping highway for its trade.
    It is China’s trade route to much of the rest of southeast Asia.
    It is China’s trade route to Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore.
    It is China’s trade route to Australia and New Zealand.
    It is China’s trade route to South America.
    It is China’s trade route to India.
    It is China’s trade route to the Middle East.
    It is China’s trade route to all of Africa.
    And until the overland new silk road routes are developed, the South China Sea is still China’s trade route to all of Europe.

    In short the South China sea is China’s crucial gateway to trade with the rest of almost the entire world. It is indispensable to China’s global supply chain. Its open access to the shipping routes is necessary to China’s very survival. In fact the Only major power with a vital strategic interest in open shipping trade through the South China Sea is China.

    Pcosmar is absolutely correct by implying Washington has no business trying to control the South China sea. Controlling the South China sea is part of the neoconservative grand strategy to “contain” China. It is part of the “indispensable” empire’s claim to rule world commerce. Washington’s modus operendi is to manufacture pretexts for its worldwide military projection and threats. That is why Washington keeps sending aircraft carriers and fleets of warships into the South China Sea, into the heart of China’s entire trade access to most of the world. It is gun boat diplomacy.

    Those warships are not to defend US coasts. They aren’t even to defend shipping lanes. China has not and is no threat to shipping. That would be bad for business and self-destructive suicide. It depends on trade with its neighbors as much or more than they do. The only threat in the area are the threats Washington is creating. It is Washington trying to destabilize the region and foster conflict. Washington’s war ships are not going there to promote trade, but rather to impede it. That is why Washington opposed ASEAN trade integration with China. That is why Washington opposes and wants to dissolve RCEP. That is why Washington vehemently opposed the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) and lobbied and pressured (unsuccessfully) other nations not to join in commerce with it.

    That is why Washington keeps pushing China’s neighbors to provoke conflicts. (Duterte now trying to cut Washington’s puppet strings over Philippines.)

    They want to make the South China Sea (and the Pacific for that matter) into Washington’s lake. It is part of their great “pivot to Asia” strategy. Part of their neocon grand strategy is their attempt control the South China Sea to be able to place a maritime chokehold on China trade, and thereby contain and control China.

    MORE:
    http://www.ronpaul.com/2015-10-27/ar...uth-china-sea/

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/07/...uth-china-sea/


    P.S. -

    If we subscribe to the notion of territorial and international waters ... then China needs to be reeled in. ... if China is allowed to do what it is doing... it would seem to set a very dangerous precedent. Today the Spratlys... what next? ... Shall they stand idly by, only to be consumed at some later date? Our circumstance is what it is. We either play to practicality or we expose ourselves that lead inevitably to our destruction. ... this is the hand we hold. We either deal with it, or live in a bubble

    You are wise enough to see the neocon manufactured BS pretexts for Iraq, Libya, Ukraine, Syria ... Don't buy into the latest neocon the sky is falling war mongering. This is simply another manufactured pretext for conflict.
    Last edited by AZJoe; 01-24-2017 at 10:39 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    That dangerous precedent has been SOP for our Navy for my whole lifetime.

    China is doing the same in their neighborhood.

    seems more a time for intelligent diplomacy than dick shaking.
    In a rational world, yes. I am not sure how to judge the most basic qualities of it anymore.

    With each day I seem to become more suspicious that the only path to the salvation of this race of idiots is wholesale destruction such that we are sent express mail back to the stone age.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "It’s just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill people’s fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


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