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Thread: Rand Paul Previews His Obamacare Replacement

  1. #1

    Rand Paul Previews His Obamacare Replacement

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...-policies.html
    Paul, a physician, has emerged in recent weeks as a leader in the repeal-replace effort, amid Republican concerns that fulfilling campaign vows to dismantle ObamaCare at the start of the 115th Congress could leave tens of millions of Americans uninsured.

    Incoming Republican President Donald Trump has expressed similar concerns, despite campaigning on a winning repeal-replace agenda.
    Paul said Sunday the plan also will include health saving accounts and tax credits to help customers save money.

    He also suggested the plan will allow people and small businesses to create their own markets.

    "There's no reason why (a business owner) with four employees shouldn't be able to join with hundreds and hundreds of other businesses that are small to become a large entity to get leverage to bring your prices down," Paul said.

    However, he acknowledged rolling back Medicaid expansion as part of the ObamaCare repeal remains a “big question.”



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  3. #2
    Paul said Sunday the plan also will include health saving accounts and tax credits to help customers save money.
    Already got that, and it's a confusing mess.

  4. #3

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Already got that, and it's a confusing mess.
    It was a confusing mess before Obamacare. Now it's just an expensive subsidized mess. We all knew the GOP was just dicking us along with the repeal talk. They might as well just socialize it and spare us the decade of agony.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    They might as well just socialize it and spare us the decade of agony.
    And leave a decade of graft on the table? I don't see that happening.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    It was a confusing mess before Obamacare. Now it's just an expensive subsidized mess. We all knew the GOP was just dicking us along with the repeal talk. They might as well just socialize it and spare us the decade of agony.
    Well, we both know that was the plan all along, once the insurance mafia got done milking us.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    And leave a decade of graft on the table? I don't see that happening.
    No kidding.

    I wish Randal would take his own advice and replace ObamaCare with freedom.

    NH is one of the few states in the nation that does NOT require mandatory vehicle insurance.

    Consequently, it has some of lowest costs to insure, which in turn translates into one of the highest rates of insured motorists in the country.

    If people are not compelled at government gunpoint to buy a thing, market forces will make it affordable, or the company will go out of business.

    There is no way you are going to get people to pay $1500 a month for health insurance.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    No kidding.

    I wish Randal would take his own advice and replace ObamaCare with freedom.

    NH is one of the few states in the nation that does NOT require mandatory vehicle insurance.

    Consequently, it has some of lowest costs to insure, which in turn translates into one of the highest rates of insured motorists in the country.

    If people are not compelled at government gunpoint to buy a thing, market forces will make it affordable, or the company will go out of business.

    There is no way you are going to get people to pay $1500 a month for health insurance.
    I did not know this. Of course people would choose to buy if the rates are reasonable.
    Last edited by phill4paul; 01-16-2017 at 10:19 AM.



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  11. #9
    Being in the medical industry I have to put my 2 cents in... People really shouldn't NEED most insurance. If people just bought a cheap plan to cover major medical costs such as emergency surgery and organ failure they should be able to pay for regular doctor visits and drugs out of pocket and save that $1000 per month they now pay (one way or another) for these plans that cover everything. Sure people would need to actually SAVE some of their money to cover small medical costs but that's too much to ask these days I guess...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

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  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    And leave a decade of graft on the table? I don't see that happening.
    Lol!

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Being in the medical industry I have to put my 2 cents in... People really shouldn't NEED most insurance. If people just bought a cheap plan to cover major medical costs such as emergency surgery and organ failure they should be able to pay for regular doctor visits and drugs out of pocket and save that $1000 per month they now pay (one way or another) for these plans that cover everything. Sure people would need to actually SAVE some of their money to cover small medical costs but that's too much to ask these days I guess...
    Exactly. And that is anathema in our modern crony socialist snowflake society. No better business model than convincing everyone that your financial product is essential to life itself. The insurance industry has co-opted government, and the people themselves.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
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  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Being in the medical industry I have to put my 2 cents in... People really shouldn't NEED most insurance. If people just bought a cheap plan to cover major medical costs such as emergency surgery and organ failure they should be able to pay for regular doctor visits and drugs out of pocket and save that $1000 per month they now pay (one way or another) for these plans that cover everything. Sure people would need to actually SAVE some of their money to cover small medical costs but that's too much to ask these days I guess...
    In theory that sounds good but I don't think the govt will allow that. Why? If I am not mistaken a lot of bankruptcies are due to medical bills. If a poor person can't pay their bill how will the medical establishment collect? People will go without the care and when sick go to doctor/hospital and won't pay the bill.

  15. #13
    Maybe Rand should listen to his dad's old debates.. we don't replace cancer with anything
    Disclaimer: any post made after midnight and before 8AM is made before the coffee dip stick has come up to optomim level - expect some level of silliness,

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  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    In theory that sounds good but I don't think the govt will allow that. Why? If I am not mistaken a lot of bankruptcies are due to medical bills. If a poor person can't pay their bill how will the medical establishment collect? People will go without the care and when sick go to doctor/hospital and won't pay the bill.
    We are in the medical field. We have patients who file bankruptcy. We eat it and go on. Life sometimes throws you some lemons so make some lemonade...

    We also work with any patient who says they are having a hard time paying their bill. We will reduce or accept payments from anyone who is willing to make the effort.
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

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  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    We are in the medical field. We have patients who file bankruptcy. We eat it and go on. Life sometimes throws you some lemons so make some lemonade...

    We also work with any patient who says they are having a hard time paying their bill. We will reduce or accept payments from anyone who is willing to make the effort.
    Good business practice. Working with the client.
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  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    No kidding.

    I wish Randal would take his own advice and replace ObamaCare with freedom.

    NH is one of the few states in the nation that does NOT require mandatory vehicle insurance.

    Consequently, it has some of lowest costs to insure, which in turn translates into one of the highest rates of insured motorists in the country.

    If people are not compelled at government gunpoint to buy a thing, market forces will make it affordable, or the company will go out of business.

    There is no way you are going to get people to pay $1500 a month for health insurance.

    He isn't proposing mandatory insurance. No idea where you got that from. I guess when you say you are for freedom you are saying you don't think people should be able to buy insurance from states with fewer regulations because that is the current system that will stay in place without replacement.

    I hate his idea of tax credits to buy insurance. But it is extremely bizarre you are bitching about that. You support all sorts of crony interventions like tariffs and the Carrier deal. This makes the current terrible system fair. The current system is built on tax credits for people who get insurance through their employers. It looks like Rand is basically expanding the same policy for 1099 workers and the self-employed. I think it is extremely dumb policy. But it fair for people like me who pay both sides of FICA and who pay for their own insurance who don't get a tax credit only a tax deduction.
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 01-16-2017 at 02:18 PM.



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  20. #17
    Not trying to throw shade on Rand's bill or Trump's promise but, so far, everything I've seen about the GOP's replacement plan (admittedly it's not much yet) looks like only changing the terminology but not changing much substance. A "tax credit" instead of a "subsidy", for example. Word games.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  21. #18
    Dear Rand. Please get rid of the mandate. After that, I don't care. Thanks a bunch.
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    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

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    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Dear Rand. Please get rid of the mandate. After that, I don't care. Thanks a bunch.
    I'm pretty sure removing the mandate would be part of Obamacare repeal.


    As for Rand's plan I'm not sure why people are against it. Allowing people to buy a cheap high deductible plan again just in case of emergency, allowing businesses or individuals to voluntarily group up to form a large insurance pool for more leverage and allowing people to save more money into HSAs.

    None of this is mandatory and it only gives people more options (aka more freedom) when it comes to Healthcare.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudeman View Post
    I'm pretty sure removing the mandate would be part of Obamacare repeal.


    As for Rand's plan I'm not sure why people are against it. Allowing people to buy a cheap high deductible plan again just in case of emergency, allowing businesses or individuals to voluntarily group up to form a large insurance pool for more leverage and allowing people to save more money into HSAs.

    None of this is mandatory and it only gives people more options (aka more freedom) when it comes to Healthcare.
    I'm not against Rand's plan. I'm all for it. I just hope repealing the mandate doesn't get lost in the shuffle. I fully expect Rand to fight to repeal the mandate. I'm not sure about the rest of the GOP. After all the mandate was the idea of the treacherous "Heritage Foundation."
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Not trying to throw shade on Rand's bill or Trump's promise but, so far, everything I've seen about the GOP's replacement plan (admittedly it's not much yet) looks like only changing the terminology but not changing much substance. A "tax credit" instead of a "subsidy", for example. Word games.
    There actually is an important difference between tax credits and subsidies. Tax credits are exemptions from robbery, subsidies are products of robbery. Tax credits cost nothing, only reverse harm, etc. Subsidies are the opposite.

  25. #22
    My employer canceled our insurance when Obamacare came into law. We will never get it back. Nor did we get compensated for what was supposed to be a "benefit" when we got hired so it was like getting a demotion. So for many of us it doesn't matter one way or the other, we'll still get screwed.
    Last edited by Carlybee; 01-17-2017 at 07:21 AM.

  26. #23
    Not sure what to think.
    Other than, we'll all still be screwed.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    Not sure what to think.
    Other than, we'll all still be screwed.
    That's the purpose of "goonerment"...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Being in the medical industry I have to put my 2 cents in... People really shouldn't NEED most insurance. If people just bought a cheap plan to cover major medical costs such as emergency surgery and organ failure they should be able to pay for regular doctor visits and drugs out of pocket and save that $1000 per month they now pay (one way or another) for these plans that cover everything. Sure people would need to actually SAVE some of their money to cover small medical costs but that's too much to ask these days I guess...
    Amen to that whole post. What screwed up a reasonably good thing was the government mandates.
    "The Patriarch"

  30. #26
    It sounds like an okay plan, but it doesn't fully address pre-existing conditions or the fundamental tax code problem.

    Here's what I would do:

    1) Repeal Obamacare, 100%
    2) Eliminate the employer healthcare tax exemption--this is the fundamental problem with the health insurance market
    3) Make HSAs unlimited for medical expenses
    4) Allow insurance purchases across state lines
    5) People with pre-existing conditions have 3 years to sign up for gov't subsidies to treat their conditions. They should use this time to buy a policy to cover any other catastrophic conditions.
    6) Gaps in coverage after 3 years will need to be filled by the states or charity.

    I don't know how else to slay the beast. There's no political appetite for just tossing those with pre-existing conditions to fend for themselves--not even Ron Paul has ever suggested this. At least this plan creates markets immediately to lower costs and moves toward a free-market path instead of single-payer.
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  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Murray N Rothbard View Post
    There actually is an important difference between tax credits and subsidies. Tax credits are exemptions from robbery, subsidies are products of robbery. Tax credits cost nothing, only reverse harm, etc. Subsidies are the opposite.
    Since tax credits are generally offset by increased deficit spending, the distinction is whether the value of the money goes down or whether the nominal dollar amount of the money in "your" bank account goes down. Such is the nature of fiat currencies that can be created out of nothing. In that regard it is word games. How do you prefer to lose money? By inflation tax or outright tax?

    It's like the stock market. When markets are going up it really means the money is losing value. When it goes down it means the money is disappearing. Same idea. It's lost regardless.
    Last edited by devil21; 01-18-2017 at 01:25 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  32. #28
    Bump.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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