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Thread: Jesus was a rebel

  1. #1

    Post Jesus was a rebel

    Would he have made it as far in this day & age?

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/...-police-state/

    Jesus was good. He was caring. He had powerful, profound things to say—things that would change how we view people, alter government policies and change the world. He went around helping the poor. And when confronted by those in authority, he did not shy away from speaking truth to power.
    Jesus was born into a police state not unlike the growing menace of the American police state.
    But what if Jesus, the revered preacher, teacher, radical and prophet, had been born 2,000 years later? How would Jesus’ life have been different had he been born and raised in the American police state?
    Consider the following if you will.
    The Christmas narrative of a baby born in a manger is a familiar one.
    The Roman Empire, a police state in its own right, had ordered that a census be conducted. Joseph and his pregnant wife Mary traveled to the little town of Bethlehem so that they could be counted. There being no room for the couple at any of the inns, they stayed in a stable, where Mary gave birth to a baby boy. That boy, Jesus, would grow up to undermine the political and religious establishment of his day and was eventually crucified as a warning to others not to challenge the powers-that-be.
    However, had Jesus been born in the year 2016…
    Rather than traveling to Bethlehem for a census, Jesus’ parents would have been mailed a 28-page American Community Survey, a mandatory government questionnaire documenting their habits, household inhabitants, work schedule, how many toilets are in your home, etc. The penalty for not responding to this invasive survey can go as high as $5,000.
    Instead of being born in a manger, Jesus might have been born at home. Rather than wise men and shepherds bringing gifts, however, the baby’s parents might have been forced to ward off visits from state social workers intent on prosecuting them for the home birth. One couple in Washington had all three of their children removed after social services objected to the two youngest being birthed in an unassisted home delivery.
    Had Jesus been born in a hospital, his blood and DNA would have been taken without his parents’ knowledge or consent and entered into a government biobank. While most states require newborn screening, a growing number are holding onto that genetic material long-term for research, analysis and purposes yet to be disclosed.
    Then again, had his parents been undocumented immigrants, they and the newborn baby might have been shuffled to a profit-driven, private prison for illegals where they would have been turned into cheap, forced laborers for corporations such as Starbucks, Microsoft, Walmart, and Victoria’s Secret. There’s quite a lot of money to be made from imprisoning immigrants, especially when taxpayers are footing the bill.
    From the time he was old enough to attend school, Jesus would have been drilled in lessons of compliance and obedience to government authorities, while learning little about his own rights. Had he been daring enough to speak out against injustice while still in school, he might have found himself tasered or beaten by a school resource officer, or at the very least suspended under a school zero tolerance policy that punishes minor infractions as harshly as more serious offenses.
    Had Jesus disappeared for a few hours let alone days as a 12-year-old, his parents would have been handcuffed, arrested and jailed for parental negligence. Parents across the country have been arrested for far less “offenses” such as allowing their children to walk to the park unaccompanied and play in their front yard alone.
    Rather than disappearing from the history books from his early teenaged years to adulthood, Jesus’ movements and personal data—including his biometrics—would have been documented, tracked, monitored and filed by governmental agencies and corporations such as Google and Microsoft. Incredibly, 95 percent of school districts share their student records with outside companies that are contracted to manage data, which they then use to market products to us.
    From the moment Jesus made contact with an “extremist” such as John the Baptist, he would have been flagged for surveillance because of his association with a prominent activist, peaceful or otherwise. Since 9/11, the FBI has actively carried out surveillance and intelligence-gathering operations on a broad range of activist groups, from animal rights groups to poverty relief, anti-war groups and other such “extremist” organizations.
    Jesus’ anti-government views would certainly have resulted in him being labeled a domestic extremist. Law enforcement agencies are being trained to recognize signs of anti-government extremism during interactions with potential extremists who share a “belief in the approaching collapse of government and the economy.”
    While traveling from community to community, Jesus might have been reported to government officials as “suspicious” under the Department of Homeland Security’s “See Something, Say Something” programs. Many states, including New York, are providing individuals with phone apps that allow them to take photos of suspicious activity and report them to their state Intelligence Center, where they are reviewed and forwarded to law-enforcement agencies.
    Rather than being permitted to live as an itinerant preacher, Jesus might have found himself threatened with arrest for daring to live off the grid or sleeping outside. In fact, the number of cities that have resorted to criminalizing homelessness by enacting bans on camping, sleeping in vehicles, loitering and begging in public has doubled.
    Viewed by the government as a dissident and potential threat to its power, Jesus might have had government spies planted among his followers to monitor his activities, report on his movements, and entrap him into breaking the law. Such Judases today—called informants—often receive hefty paychecks from the government for their treachery.
    Had Jesus used the internet to spread his radical message of peace and love, he might have found his blog posts infiltrated by government spies attempting to undermine his integrity, discredit him or plant incriminating information online about him. At the very least, he would have had his website hacked and his email monitored.
    Had Jesus attempted to feed large crowds of people, he would have been threatened with arrest for violating various ordinances prohibiting the distribution of food without a permit. Florida officials arrested a 90-year-old man for feeding the homeless on a public beach.
    Had Jesus spoken publicly about his 40 days in the desert and his conversations with the devil, he might have been labeled mentally ill and detained in a psych ward against his will for a mandatory involuntary psychiatric hold with no access to family or friends. One Virginia man was arrested, strip searched, handcuffed to a table, diagnosed as having “mental health issues,” and locked up for five days in a mental health facility against his will apparently because of his slurred speech and unsteady gait.
    Without a doubt, had Jesus attempted to overturn tables in a Jewish temple and rage against the materialism of religious institutions, he would have been charged with a hate crime. Currently, 45 states and the federal government have hate crime laws on the books.
    Rather than having armed guards capture Jesus in a public place, government officials would have ordered that a SWAT team carry out a raid on Jesus and his followers, complete with flash-bang grenades and military equipment. There are upwards of 80,000 such SWAT team raids carried out every year, many on unsuspecting Americans who have no defense against such government invaders, even when such raids are done in error.
    Instead of being detained by Roman guards, Jesus might have been made to “disappear” into a secret government detention center where he would have been interrogated, tortured and subjected to all manner of abuses. Chicago police “disappeared” more than 7,000 people into a secret, off-the-books interrogation warehouse at Homan Square.
    Charged with treason and labeled a domestic terrorist, Jesus might have been sentenced to a life-term in a private prison where he would have been forced to provide slave labor for corporations or put to death by way of the electric chair or a lethal mixture of drugs.
    Either way, whether Jesus had been born in our modern age or his own, he still would have died at the hands of a police state. Indeed, as I show in my book Battlefield America: The War on the American People, what Jesus and other activists suffered in their day is happening to those who choose to speak truth to power today.
    Last edited by shakey1; 10-12-2017 at 01:11 PM.



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  3. #2
    He was very much submitted to and walking in His Father's way. Submitted to YHWH; resisting evil. If that makes you a rebel; count me in His court!

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by shakey1 View Post
    Would he have made it as far in this day & age?

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/...-police-state/
    He would, because He is the Incarnate God.

    Anyone else? That is a different story!
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  5. #4
    Snip from the OP. Good read.

    The Christmas narrative of a baby born in a manger is a familiar one.

    The Roman Empire, a police state in its own right, had ordered that a census be conducted. Joseph and his pregnant wife Mary traveled to the little town of Bethlehem so that they could be counted. There being no room for the couple at any of the inns, they stayed in a stable, where Mary gave birth to a baby boy. That boy, Jesus, would grow up to undermine the political and religious establishment of his day and was eventually crucified as a warning to others not to challenge the powers-that-be.

    However, had Jesus been born in the year 2016…

    Rather than traveling to Bethlehem for a census, Jesus’ parents would have been mailed a 28-page American Community Survey, a mandatory government questionnaire documenting their habits, household inhabitants, work schedule, how many toilets are in your home, etc. The penalty for not responding to this invasive survey can go as high as $5,000.

    Instead of being born in a manger, Jesus might have been born at home. Rather than wise men and shepherds bringing gifts, however, the baby’s parents might have been forced to ward off visits from state social workers intent on prosecuting them for the home birth. One couple in Washington had all three of their children removed after social services objected to the two youngest being birthed in an unassisted home delivery.

    Had Jesus been born in a hospital, his blood and DNA would have been taken without his parents’ knowledge or consent and entered into a government biobank. While most states require newborn screening, a growing number are holding onto that genetic material long-term for research, analysis and purposes yet to be disclosed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  6. #5
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  7. #6

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  8. #7
    I like the idea of Jesus the Rebel, fighting the good fight against the State.

    I also believe it was for that reason the elites had him killed. He was dropping Bombs of Truth© and the unwashed masses were waking up.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  9. #8
    If you think HE was a rebel then, wait until HIS return. I know who wins, I read the back of the book.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    I like the idea of Jesus the Rebel, fighting the good fight against the State.

    I also believe it was for that reason the elites had him killed. He was dropping Bombs of Truth© and the unwashed masses were waking up.
    Many times in modern times, people will try to use Jesus as their own ideal, as a figurehead for their own agenda. Communists for example will use Jesus as the ultimate comrade.

    But the truth is, Jesus was not here to be an anti state warrior. And the apostles were not overly anti state (although they did seek separation from the system of Rome, and wanted mainly to be left alone).

    Jesus came for the purpose of suffering for the sins of the elect and dying in their place, so that they would not suffer the wrath of God for their sins but inherit eternal life, and along the way, He taught people that God alone saves His people.

    And of course He proclaimed that He was God, which was why He was executed.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Many times in modern times, people will try to use Jesus as their own ideal, as a figurehead for their own agenda. Communists for example will use Jesus as the ultimate comrade.

    But the truth is, Jesus was not here to be an anti state warrior. And the apostles were not overly anti state (although they did seek separation from the system of Rome, and wanted mainly to be left alone).

    Jesus came for the purpose of suffering for the sins of the elect and dying in their place, so that they would not suffer the wrath of God for their sins but inherit eternal life, and along the way, He taught people that God alone saves His people.

    And of course He proclaimed that He was God, which was why He was executed.
    Agree

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagles Wings View Post
    Agree
    ... still, the state saw him as a threat, in large part because of his influence on many people... so while Jesus was not an anti state warrior per se, his path was likely viewed as rebellious in nature by those in power.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  14. #12

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  15. #13
    God will judge nations for how they treated widows and orphans. Read through the Bible. You will be astonished to see how many times that concept is expressed. So, how is it justice to pay women to have more babies, yet not marry? Are we not creating defacto widows and orphans when marriage is not encouraged in the first place?

    The next thing would have to do with jobs. A person who found himself with more debt than he could pay could endenture himself for seven years to work to pay off the debt. After seven years the debt was cancelled. There are two issues here: Our tax system is linked to employment. This almost criminalizes people working on contract basis. The other thing is that when people work independently, they pay more taxes. How is that justice? I have seen one or two times when people who were down on their luck came by a little meat and three. The owner would had them a broom and dustpan and say, "I can give you XXX amount of money if you will sweep the parking lot and outdoor dining areas.

    The second part of the job thing is that we don't have an agrarian economy. There really is not a way for a hungry person to feed himself while he makes a plan to get himself solvent again. This should not be up to the government. Government should never own land. Free land should be able to be used to grow food.

    People should be free to move, and that means they should be able to own even a tiny space of land and have whatever kind of house they want.

    The elites are afraid of poverty. They do not want poor people living near them or interacting with them in any way. How is that justice?

    These are some thoughts I've had through the years.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  16. #14
    Jesus' missing years:

    Last edited by donnay; 10-09-2017 at 05:24 PM.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  17. #15

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    If you think HE was a rebel then, wait until HIS return. I know who wins, I read the back of the book.
    It reminds me of like a Pokemon Evolution:

    First is "Yeshuah", humble shepherd Jesus with basic healing powers, communing with spirits and high Constitution.

    Then Resurrected Jesus, who gains shapeshifting powers as well as flight and teleportation and inter-dimensional travel.

    Finally, Lion of Judah Ninja-Jesus, whose eyes shoot lightning, mouth shoots fire and can annihilate entire armies single-handed with advanced weapon-flurries.
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6



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  20. #17

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  21. #18
    Jesus was a political rebel, end of story. He didn't become divine until Rome made him so a couple centuries later.

    /end thread
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    Jesus was a political rebel, end of story. He didn't become divine until Rome made him so a couple centuries later.

    /end thread
    o rlly? you ever read the Gospels? They proclaim his divinity, and were oral tradition for decades before they were written down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    Jesus was a political rebel, end of story. He didn't become divine until Rome made him so a couple centuries later.

    /end thread
    That is blatantly not factual. The Carmen Christi, where Paul cites a hymn of the early church, proves that the divinity of Jesus was the belief of the earliest Christians from the beginning.

  24. #21
    Sorry fellas. This thread ended with a mic drop on post #18.

    /end thread
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    Sorry fellas. This thread ended with a mic drop on post #18.

    /end thread
    It's not factual. You care about believing historical truths right?

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    It's not factual. You care about believing historical truths right?
    These facts that Jesus was a political rebel and that it was Rome who claimed his divinity have been undisputed for centuries.

    /end thread
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    These facts that Jesus was a political rebel and that it was Rome who claimed his divinity have been undisputed for centuries.

    /end thread
    Wrong. That is blatantly not factual. Jesus was not a political rebel. And the earliest Christians from the very beginning believed He was God. The Carmen Christi in the book of Philippians proves that.

    You don't even know what the Carmen Christi is, so you need to study more before you make ridiculous assertions like that.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Wrong. That is blatantly not factual. Jesus was not a political rebel. And the earliest Christians from the very beginning believed He was God. The Carmen Christi in the book of Philippians proves that.
    Totally right and indeed factual. Jesus *was* a political rebel, and the earliest Christians looked to him as the leader of a political and spiritual revolution. All the divinity stuff was figments of Paul's distressed imagination, later elaborated upon by the Roman Powers That Be'd.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    You don't even know what the Carmen Christi is
    You don't even know what a Karma Chameleon is.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    Totally right and indeed factual. Jesus *was* a political rebel, and the earliest Christians looked to him as the leader of a political and spiritual revolution. All the divinity stuff was figments of Paul's distressed imagination, later elaborated upon by the Roman Powers That Be'd.

    You don't even know what the Karma Chameleon is.
    Wrong. The earliest Christian testimonies that we have are the epistles and gospels themselves, and none of them understood Jesus as a political rebel. That is your a-historical mythology talking, not the reality.

    You should read the thread I just bumped about the Carmen Christi. Proof that the earliest Christians worshipped Jesus as God. There is no dispute.

  31. #27

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  32. #28
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  33. #29

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  34. #30

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

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