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Thread: Rand Paul: Trump backs plan to repeal and replace ObamaCare simultaneously

  1. #1

    Rand Paul: Trump backs plan to repeal and replace ObamaCare simultaneously

    Rand Paul: Trump backs plan to repeal and replace ObamaCare simultaneously

    BY BROOKE SEIPEL
    01/06/17

    Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said Friday that President-elect Donald Trump agrees with his proposal to repeal and replace ObamaCare at the same time, rather than roll back the law with no plan to move forward.

    “I just spoke to @realDonaldTrump and he fully supports my plan to replace Obamacare the same day we repeal it. The time to act is now.” Paul tweeted.



    The announcement comes as a growing number of Republican senators are expressing unease with the plan to move forward with repeal without a replacement plan immediately available. Sens. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.), Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) and Susan Collins (R-Maine) have also expressed reservations. If Trump comes out against repeal without a replacement, it could kill the plan's chances in Congress.

    ...
    read more:
    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...macare-when-we



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  3. #2
    a few more days and the real game begins, wow I'm actually excited for a non-paul administration.
    THE SQUAD of RPF
    1. enhanced_deficit - Paid Troll / John Bolton book promoter
    2. Devil21 - LARPing Wizard, fake magical script reader
    3. Firestarter - Tax Troll; anti-tax = "criminal behavior"
    4. TheCount - Comet Pizza Pedo Denier <-- sick

    @Ehanced_Deficit's real agenda on RPF =troll:

    Who spends this much time copy/pasting the same recycled links, photos/talking points.

    7 yrs/25k posts later RPF'ers still respond to this troll

  4. #3

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by brandon View Post
    What is Rand's plan?
    1. The freedom to choose inexpensive insurance free of government dictates.

    2. The freedom to save unlimited amounts in a health savings account.

    3. The freedom to buy insurance across state lines.

    4. The freedom for all individuals to join together in voluntary associations to gain the leverage of being part of a large insurance pool.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    1. The freedom to choose inexpensive insurance free of government dictates.
    How is Rand going to make it inexpensive?

    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    2. The freedom to save unlimited amounts in a health savings account.
    How will they make sure this money is spent on healhcare? Currently HSAs can serve as a secondary retirement account, and are significantly advantaged over 401ks plans in that they are exempt from FICA tax. How will they change HSAs to prevent abuse?

    --------------------------

    Are these things actually part of a plan Rand presented, or are they just things you think would be good?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by brandon View Post
    How is Rand going to make it inexpensive?


    How will they make sure this money is spent on healhcare? Currently HSAs can serve as a secondary retirement account, and are significantly advantaged over 401ks plans in that they are exempt from FICA tax. How will they change HSAs to prevent abuse?

    --------------------------

    Are these things actually part of a plan Rand presented, or are they just things you think would be good?


    By Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.)

    Congress will, as its first course of action, vote to repeal Obamacare. It cannot happen soon enough.

    All around us, Obamacare crumbles in chaos. Premiums are exploding. The state run health co-ops are mostly bankrupt. Many individuals who gained subsidized insurance are still, for all practical purposes, without insurance because the deductibles are beyond the reach of low income workers.

    Related: As many question if Trump will fully repeal Obamacare, Kellyanne Conway says his promise relies on this factor

    As we repeal Obamacare, we would be wise to vote on its replacement at the same time.

    What should we replace Obamacare with? Perhaps we should try freedom:

    1. The freedom to choose inexpensive insurance free of government dictates.

    2. The freedom to save unlimited amounts in a health savings account.

    3. The freedom to buy insurance across state lines.

    4. The freedom for all individuals to join together in voluntary associations to gain the leverage of being part of a large insurance pool.

    If Congress fails to vote on a replacement at the same time as repeal, the repealers risk assuming the blame for the continued unraveling of Obamacare. For mark my words, Obamacare will continue to unravel and wreak havoc for years to come.

    The stick of Obamacare was forcing people to buy insurance or pay a penalty. The carrot of Obamacare was allowing people with pre-existing conditions to buy insurance after they were diagnosed. Even with the mandate, many healthy young people refused to buy insurance and the pools of insured Americans under Obamacare are overly burdened by sick individuals and insurance companies are suffering losses.

    Removing the mandate to buy insurance while leaving in place the dictate that people can wait to buy insurance until after they are ill will only accentuate the bankrupting of the insurance industry.

    My fear is that if you leave part of Obamacare in place (the dictate that insurance companies must sell insurance to individuals with pre-existing conditions) then you will see an acceleration of adverse selection and ultimately mass bankruptcy of the healthcare insurance industry.

    Don’t misunderstand me. We should repeal Obamacare, but partial repeal will only accelerate the current chaos and may eventually lead to calls for a taxpayer bailout of insurance companies.

    Related: Rand Paul: Will Donald Trump betray voters by hiring John Bolton?

    Obamacare required the brute force of government through the individual mandate to make people buy insurance. If you repeal this mandate but leave in place dictates as to whom may purchase insurance, you create a business model doomed to fail.

    Principled opponents of Obamacare rejected it because we reject the use of state force to mandate that we buy a commercial good from a private seller. Pragmatic opponents want to keep the feel good aspects of Obamacare while cleaving the individual mandate that forces people to buy insurance.

    Partial repeal of Obamacare will likely win the day, but when the insurance companies come to Washington crying for a bailout don’t say that no one warned of this preventable disaster.

    http://rare.us/story/rand-paul-repea...e-immediately/
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  8. #7
    Thanks, I'm very interested to see the details of the Republican plan. Rand's article seems to be mostly empty platitudes with a dose of obamacare fear mongering.

    We should repeal Obamacare, but partial repeal will only accelerate the current chaos and may eventually lead to calls for a taxpayer bailout of insurance companies.
    I'm unsure of what chaos he is talking about. I haven't seen any chaos.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by brandon View Post
    How is Rand going to make it inexpensive?
    He isn't going to make it inexpensive, he is for allowing the insurance companies to make it less expensive by removing mandates and dictates on what has to be covered, increasing competition and associations.

    Quote Originally Posted by brandon View Post
    How will they make sure this money is spent on healhcare? Currently HSAs can serve as a secondary retirement account, and are significantly advantaged over 401ks plans in that they are exempt from FICA tax. How will they change HSAs to prevent abuse?
    I guess it depends on how you define "healthcare" he said in the Tucker interview that he thinks HSA's should be able to be spent on a lot of things, drugs, diet plans, exercise plans, vitamins, etc. This doesn't surprise me as the Pauls have always been about limiting taxation. You say "abuse", I say letting people keep their own money is good.

    Quote Originally Posted by brandon View Post
    Are these things actually part of a plan Rand presented, or are they just things you think would be good?
    He said in the Tucker interview that there are already a great number of such plans floating around congress and have been for years without much support AND he plans on introducing his own very such detailed plan in the coming days.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by brandon View Post
    Thanks, I'm very interested to see the details of the Republican plan. Rand's article seems to be mostly empty platitudes with a dose of obamacare fear mongering.
    Rand himself has a plan and is releasing it next week. He isn't just saying replace it with something like the moderates say. He wants a vote on making our healthcare system more free than it was before Obamacare.



    Quote Originally Posted by brandon View Post
    I'm unsure of what chaos he is talking about. I haven't seen any chaos.
    Any and all difficulties costs and burdens that we have as a result of government meddling in the market.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by brandon View Post
    How will they make sure this money is spent on healhcare? Currently HSAs can serve as a secondary retirement account, and are significantly advantaged over 401ks plans in that they are exempt from FICA tax. How will they change HSAs to prevent abuse?
    Abuse?

    You say that as if you actually want people not to be able to avoid FICA taxes.

  13. #11
    I'm pretty sure you can only use it for retirement once you've hit 65 and you still have unused HSA funds. My dad and I are on one, you can only use the expenses on qualified health expenses to this point.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by supermario21 View Post
    I'm pretty sure you can only use it for retirement once you've hit 65 and you still have unused HSA funds. My dad and I are on one, you can only use the expenses on qualified health expenses to this point.
    Right.

    But without any contribution limit, there would be nothing stopping you from deliberately overfunding it so that you do have those unused HSA funds when you're over 65.

    I fail to see the downside to that though.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by brandon View Post
    Thanks, I'm very interested to see the details of the Republican plan. Rand's article seems to be mostly empty platitudes with a dose of obamacare fear mongering.


    I'm unsure of what chaos he is talking about. I haven't seen any chaos.
    Umm... Are you not paying attention at all? Obamacare is dependent on young healthy people signing up and putting them in a risk pool with people who otherwise wouldn't get insurance. That drives the premiums for the young and healthy up. Not enough young people are signing up because of the added cost and I believe there is some sort of price cap on the premiums for the higher risk people. Those combined make it impossible for many insurance companies to make money off of Obamacare. As a result it has just been subsidized by the taxpayer, but the subsidies have still not been enough for insurance companies to make money. So insurance companies are opting to not participate in the Obamacare exchanges all together. When Rand says bailout he is likely saying Congress is going to have to pay the insurance companies more or else no one will offer Obamacare.

    I hardly think pointing out failing state exchanges that require more federal assistance is fear mongering. And I see Rand said the almost the exact same thing that I just said. This has been talked about a lot over the last 6 months. Continuing to pay insurance companies for their losses isn't sustainable. If the Republicans don't come up with a solution to keep costs down, Democrats will. The Democrat solution is likely to include price caps on drugs and reducing end of life care. Better to have market solutions to keep costs down and see where that goes.
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 01-07-2017 at 12:42 PM.



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