Constitutional Carry bill in North Dakota

[Xenliad]

State Rep. Rick Becker is in the process of introducing legislation which would allow citizens of North Dakota to carry concealed weapons without a permit.

The legislation hasn’t been filed yet – Becker is still circulating it among his colleagues for additional sponsorship – but he was kind enough to give me a copy of it which you can read below.

It’s a lot of legalese, because the concealed carry requirement is mentioned in a lot of different parts of the state statute, but the thrust of the changes are encapsulated in these changes to Section 62.1-04-02 of the North Dakota Century Code:

So basically, if you’re over the age of 21 and not otherwise prohibited by law, you can carry a concealed weapon. That’s the big change.

Currently, to carry concealed in North Dakota, you have to get a license. There are two types currently available, a Class 1 license and a Class 2 license. Per the Attorney General’s website, the only real difference between the two classes is reciprocity. The Class 1 license is more arduous to obtain, but allows the person who obtains one to carry concealed in more states than the Class 2 license.
If this legislation passes North Dakota citizens over the age of 21 can carry concealed without a permit, but if they want to be able to do so in other states they’ll have to get one of the two existing licenses.

To be clear, both levels of license have reciprocity, but the Class 1 license has more.

Becker told me this afternoon that he wants to leave all of that in place. “My intentions are not to make any changes to the Class 1 or Class 2 licenses,” he said.

That’s important. One area of concern about these sort of changes is the reciprocity question. When I’ve spoken to Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem about this in the past he’s told me that he supports this change but only in so far as it doesn’t risk reciprocity with other states.

It appears as though Becker has crafted his legislation to avoid those complications. If this legislation passes North Dakota citizens over the age of 21 can carry concealed without a permit, but if they want to be able to do so in other states they’ll have to get one of the two existing licenses.

Makes sense to me. The concealed carry laws are a mess. They’re difficult to understand and in some instances are utterly absurd – if you’re driving to the gun range and your legally-owned weapon slides under your seat you’re now illegally concealing a weapon – and the consequences for running afoul of them are severe. They need to be simplified.

So where will the push back to this legislation come from? Aside from the anti-gun crowd generally, law enforcement officials have said they’re concerned about not having a registry of citizens who are carrying concealed. Which seems a dubious objection given a) bearing arms is a civil right enshrined in our state and national constitutions and b) the sort of person who would use a weapon against a cop probably isn’t going to be too concerned about making sure they have the proper licenses.

Cops should, and do, assume that everyone is armed.

https://www.sayanythingblog.com/entr...y-guns-openly/

Feel free to battle it out in the comments section there. I was a little surprised to hear that Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem supports it, as he's pretty establishment, and that actually raises my hopes of it passing. There's a new governor too, and I'm not sure how he will be on guns.

[Xenliad]

The bill passed the House 83-9! I am shocked. Now it goes to a Senate committee for a do pass/do not pass recommendation, then the Senate will vote on it. If they say yes, it goes to the governor.

https://www.facebook.com/beckerfornd...1077731534291/

[oyarde]

The bill passed the House 83-9! I am shocked. Now it goes to a Senate committee for a do pass/do not pass recommendation, then the Senate will vote on it. If they say yes, it goes to the governor.

https://www.facebook.com/beckerfornd...1077731534291/

Good .

[Matt Collins]

Word on the street is that the Governor is likely to veto it. Unsure if they have enough votes for the override in the Senate.

[Xenliad]

Word on the street is that the Governor is likely to veto it. Unsure if they have enough votes for the override in the Senate.

Are you sure you aren't confusing governors? http://www.guns.com/2017/02/15/south...al-carry-bill/

[Matt Collins]

Are you sure you aren't confusing governors? http://www.guns.com/2017/02/15/south...al-carry-bill/

Oh whoops.... good catch. Thanks.

[Xenliad]

It passed the Senate 34-13 and goes to the governor! I believe it is veto proof now.

http://www.legis.nd.gov/assembly/65-...ns/ba1169.html

[William Tell]

Good job ND.

[Xenliad]

There was a bit of drama with a former gorvernor urging the new governor to veto:

During an interview on KFGO's "News & Views", Schafer said Burgum should reject the legislation. “I urge him to veto that bill” Schafer said. “I think it’s a mistake. We're going back to the 'Old West, high noon, lets all carry a gun; if we get into an argument...I'm going to start shooting at em'" attitude.

http://kfgo.com/news/articles/2017/m...aled-gun-bill/

Ed Schafer is probably the most respected former governor in the state, and he had endorsed the current governor Burgum back in the Republican primary. I imagine he'll be a little less respected on the right now, though!

But that doesn't matter, because Governor Burgum has announced that he will sign the carry bill!

“North Dakota has a rich heritage of hunting and a culture of deep respect for firearm safety. As a hunter and gun owner myself, I strongly support gun rights for law-abiding citizens,” Burgum said. “House Bill 1169 allows citizens to exercise their Second Amendment right under the U.S. Constitution. It also is consistent with the North Dakota Constitution, which declares in Article I that all individuals have the inalienable right ‘to keep and bear arms for the defense of their person, family, property, and the state, and for lawful hunting, recreational, and other lawful purposes, which shall not be infringed.’ ”

https://www.sayanythingblog.com/entr...nces-approval/

[seapilot]

Good for ND! South Carolina is working on CC too.

[Keith and stuff]

It was signed into law tonight! There are only 4 issues with the new law.

-You have a duty to notify the police when stopped (like in Maine)
-You have to have had a state government ID for at least 1 year before the new law applies to you (never heard of something like this before) but it could limit youth and minor criminals from being allowed to CC. Also, if you believe liberals, it will also limit black people, poor people, and the elderly, but that's a huge stretch.
-You have to carry a valid state government issued ID with you if you carry concealed or photos of the front and back on a mobile device that you let police use to look up your information while they detain you. So if you DL is revoked because you forgot to pay a speeding ticket or something, you no longer have Constitutional Carry privileges.
-It appears to have an age restriction. This is even being reported by the media, those the law doesn't specifically say it. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...-bill-into-law

Anyway, great news overall. The governor signed it very quickly. According to the above article, the new law starts in August

[Keith and stuff]

There was a bit of drama with a former gorvernor urging the new governor to veto:

That is silly. This is one of the more restrictive Constitutional Carry laws in the nation. It won't increase crime. The only crime it could increase is if someone doesn't inform police to carrying or carries in ND without a valid license or similar government ID, which is required under the new law.

[Xenliad]

I'm sure there are already plans to address most of those issues in 2019. Police notification in will get old for police really fast. I imagine it will be like Officer: "Do you know why I pulled you over?" Citizen: "I HAVE A GUN" repeatedly. There was a similar situation with carry in churches where churches are required to notify police of who in the congregation has permission to carry in the church, but it became pointless because there would be like 50 people with permission.

-You have to have had a state government ID for at least 1 year before the new law applies to you (never heard of something like this before)

There is a lot of distrust towards out of state people. Both "oil patch worker criminals" and "anti-pipeline ecoterrorists" in particular.

Also, if you believe liberals, it will also limit black people, poor people, and the elderly, but that's a huge stretch.

One at least one occasion, I heard people arguing that concealed carry licenses were discriminatory against these groups and that constitutional carry would right the wrong. Maybe that train of thought got some D votes in the House.

-It appears to have an age restriction. This is even being reported by the media, those the law doesn't specifically say it. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...-bill-into-law

I've heard conflicting reports about the age restriction. At first it was 21, then I think it was 18. I would trust the law over the media though.

[pcosmar]

It was signed into law tonight! There are only 4 issues with the new law.

-You have a duty to notify the police when stopped (like in Maine)
-You have to have had a state government ID for at least 1 year before the new law applies to you (never heard of something like this before) but it could limit youth and minor criminals from being allowed to CC. Also, if you believe liberals, it will also limit black people, poor people, and the elderly, but that's a huge stretch.
-You have to carry a valid state government issued ID with you if you carry concealed or photos of the front and back on a mobile device that you let police use to look up your information while they detain you. So if you DL is revoked because you forgot to pay a speeding ticket or something, you no longer have Constitutional Carry privileges.
-It appears to have an age restriction. This is even being reported by the media, those the law doesn't specifically say it. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...-bill-into-law

Anyway, great news overall. The governor signed it very quickly. According to the above article, the new law starts in August

It may be an improvement.

It is NOT Constitutional Carry.

not close.

[Keith and stuff]

I'm sure there are already plans to address most of those issues in 2019.

I spoke with the best legislator in Maine today. He said he tried to address the notify the police issue and 21 year old police in his state's Constitutional Carry law. There was very little support from politicians in either party. Looks like they are stuck with that junk in Maine for at least a few years, if not much longer In Maine they had an excuse for a problematic bill. The ME House was Democrat controlled when they passed Constitutional Carry. ND is very Republican. There was no excuse.

[Keith and stuff]

It may be an improvement.

It is NOT Constitutional Carry.

not close.

More information on the ND law. The ND government issued a press release saying "Governor Doug Burgum today signed legislation allowing law-abiding citizens to carry a concealed handgun if they have possessed a valid North Dakota driver’s license or state ID card for at least a year." So while the law specifically doesn't say it only applies to ND residences, the clause about "department of transportation" is likely meant to only mean the ND Department of Transportation, even though ND has compacts with other states whereas it 100% recognizes driver's licenses from other states as official department of transportation documents.

The press release
https://www.governor.nd.gov/news/bur...80%9D-bill-law

At this point, I admit I'm so confused on the new law, I'm willing to agree with people that say it isn't Constitutional Carry. Sorry, ND, I could be wrong. Good luck and be safe folks! If you are going to try CC in ND, consider keeping the card of a lawyer on your person, just in case.