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Thread: Ron Paul has some serious ideas which deserve serious consideration. Wrong for media to ignore

  1. #1

    Ron Paul has some serious ideas which deserve serious consideration. Wrong for media to ignore

    RonPaul has some serious ideas which deserve serious consideration. Wrong for media to ignore him

    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...852928?lang=en



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    RonPaul has some serious ideas which deserve serious consideration. Wrong for media to ignore him

    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...852928?lang=en
    Trump tweet . . . an electoral college one pointer is worth something ? Thattda be great.
    Last edited by Jan2017; 12-20-2016 at 06:59 AM.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    Trump tweet . . . an electoral college one pointer is worth something ? Thattda be great.
    LOL. Read the date of the Tweet. I learned about it today because Ron Paul got a vote.

    Trump is ownage ... I knew in my heart Trump was influenced by Ron Paul. But,fooled, the guy lost it when attacking Trump like a MSM attack dog. As I said several times, the Pauls lost most the leverage their had, because of Hubris.

    sad. so sad. I saw that when I came back here and got insulted.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    LOL. Read the date of the Tweet. I learned about it today because Ron Paul got a vote.
    details details . . . August 2011 . . . what beach was I on then ?

    Comments in to the tweet universe are current tho . . . sorta (?)
    Last edited by Jan2017; 12-20-2016 at 07:47 AM.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    details details . . . Augusl 2011 . . . whhat beach was I on then ?
    yea and I was a fool in 2011 to be influenced by everyone saying Trump was an idiot and Ron Paul was right to snub him.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    LOL. Read the date of the Tweet. I learned about it today because Ron Paul got a vote.

    Trump is ownage ... I knew in my heart Trump was influenced by Ron Paul. But,fooled, the guy lost it when attacking Trump like a MSM attack dog. As I said several times, the Pauls lost most the leverage their had, because of Hubris.

    sad. so sad. I saw that when I came back here and got insulted.
    Why don't you go cry to yo mama? Geez, what a sniveler.



    How long are you going to keep whining?
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Forgive me, for a moment I thought you grew a brain.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    LOL. Read the date of the Tweet. I learned about it today because Ron Paul got a vote.

    Trump is ownage ... I knew in my heart Trump was influenced by Ron Paul. But,fooled, the guy lost it when attacking Trump like a MSM attack dog. As I said several times, the Pauls lost most the leverage their had, because of Hubris.

    sad. so sad. I saw that when I came back here and got insulted.
    Could you ask your heart to tell us how Ron influenced Trump? Sure is not on foreign or domestic policy. Surley not on economics or individual liberty. I'm at a loss for what is left?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    Could you ask your heart to tell us how Ron influenced Trump? Sure is not on foreign or domestic policy. Surley not on economics or individual liberty. I'm at a loss for what is left?
    Ya, Trump has been against all of the wars in the last 15 years and thinks they were huge mistakes that has made the Middle East even worse. He just hired a guy who is friendly toward the John Birch Society and is against the Fed manipulating interest rates. He thinks medicinal cannabis should be legal and that states should be allowed to legalize cannabis for recreational use.. How could Ron Paul have possibly influenced any of this??
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    Could you ask your heart to tell us how Ron influenced Trump? Sure is not on foreign or domestic policy. Surley not on economics or individual liberty. I'm at a loss for what is left?
    Trump is going to be great on foreign and domestic policy - believe me.

    He is also going to be terrific on economics and individual liberty. Believe me!

  12. #10
    Trump is going to be great on foreign and domestic policy
    Trusted by Jamesiv1

  13. #11
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ya, Trump has been against all of the wars in the last 15 years and thinks they were huge mistakes that has made the Middle East even worse. He just hired a guy who is friendly toward the John Birch Society and is against the Fed manipulating interest rates. He thinks medicinal cannabis should be legal and that states should be allowed to legalize cannabis for recreational use.. How could Ron Paul have possibly influenced any of this??
    Don't be afraid to spit out the piss water once it finally hits your tongue. No doubt you've seen videos of Trump himself disproving your first point. JBS, although I don't know enough about them to be to critical, were saying 'The Russians are coming' well before the media made it cool. I'll believe that we'll have non-minipulated interest rates the day I see it. And what sense does it make to attribute Trump's support for MM to Ron when there are so many advocacy groups towards that end, where Ron was calling for an end to the prohibition of all drugs.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    Don't be afraid to spit out the piss water once it finally hits your tongue.
    I won't, I didn't even vote for Trump. I just think he is a hundred thousand miles ahead of and better than Hillary. Nowhere close to perfect, doesn't understand the principle of liberty very well - but he is waaaayy better on foreign policy and economic policy. This isn't Bush vs. Kerry or Obama vs. McCain where we have two establishment stooges - we actually have a guy who might wanna fight for us for once, even if he doesn't have a perfect grasp of how to fix things it is a better vision than where we were headed with Hillary.


    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    No doubt you've seen videos of Trump himself disproving your first point.
    I saw the clip of the video the media took out of context, but if you actually pull your head out of the mainstream media's ass and do the research on Trump yourself you would see I am right... he was against all of the wars in the last 15 years.

    Most people don't like Trump largely because of crap they have been lied about to by the mainstream media. It seems you are in that group.


    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    JBS, although I don't know enough about them to be to critical, were saying 'The Russians are coming' well before the media made it cool. I'll believe that we'll have non-minipulated interest rates the day I see it. And what sense does it make to attribute Trump's support for MM to Ron when there are so many advocacy groups towards that end, where Ron was calling for an end to the prohibition of all drugs.
    JBS was right about the communists, and back then the communists ruled Russia. Russia is no longer under control of the communists. The communists now control our country and the NWO. So it makes sense that the communists in this country who control the media now attack Russia.

    That is one issue I am pretty skeptical about Trump on - I think he might expand the war on drugs (besides cannabis). I think cannabis is a good substance that helps people - heroin, cocaine and meth are not. All drugs should be legal, and Trump is wrong for wanting to continue the war on drugs.. but he would be doing a great service if he stopped the war on cannabis.
    Last edited by dannno; 12-20-2016 at 04:28 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  16. #14
    I wad going to say the same thing. JBS is anti commie.

  17. #15
    Lol, Mordan back insulting Ron and Rand and crying about how he is treated by forums members of RON PAUL/RAND PAUL FORUMS.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Lol, Mordan back insulting Ron and Rand and crying about how he is treated by forums members of RON PAUL/RAND PAUL FORUMS.
    He insulted Ron and Rand in this thread?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    He insulted Ron and Rand in this thread?
    I suppose not, if you, like him, believed Ron was fooled, lost it attacking Trump like a MSM attack dog, and that Ron and Rand lost the most leverage they had because of Hubris.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    But,fooled, the guy lost it when attacking Trump like a MSM attack dog. As I said several times, the Pauls lost most the leverage their had, because of Hubris.
    I don't see it that way.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I suppose not, if you, like him, believed Ron was fooled, lost it attacking Trump like a MSM attack dog, and that Ron and Rand lost the most leverage they had because of Hubris. .
    I dunno if he did it in a way that was insulting per se.. He had a disagreement with how Ron reacted to Trump's candidacy. I have no issue with how Ron Paul reacted to Trump's candidacy.

    The thing is, we need purists on our side - we need politicians on our side who aren't purists who can get things done too, otherwise you have one guy in congress like Ron Paul who gave a fantastic example of what should be done but accomplished very little in regards to changing policy - but he did help get some new people like Amash and Massie and Rand and they are helping to get some things done - Rand has played the game and actually had a lot of results - Trump has played the game and gotten the chance at creating even bigger results. It's no surprise that they each had to give up some essential tenants of liberty, Trump more-so than Rand, to get there - but at least they are pushing us in the right direction. Because like I said we really need both, and we need to not throw everybody under the bus who isn't totally pure unless they are a stooges for the establishment.

    I promise I'll hold Trump's feet to the fire if and when he makes mistakes, but there is a difference between holding someone's feet to the fire and throwing them under the bus. If Trump is just a puppet of the elite trying to fool us into thinking he is anti-establishment, then $#@! man, that sucks.. I admit it's a possibility. But if he is actually anti-establishment, he could make some major improvements to the system that we wouldn't have seen otherwise that could lead to a more free and prosperous life for everyone. I'm not ready to throw him under the bus yet. I expect he won't do everything I want him to do and I expect to have some disagreements.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I dunno if he did it in a way that was insulting per se.. He had a disagreement with how Ron reacted to Trump's candidacy. I have no issue with how Ron Paul reacted to Trump's candidacy.

    The thing is, we need purists on our side - we need politicians on our side who aren't purists who can get things done too, otherwise you have one guy in congress like Ron Paul who gave a fantastic example of what should be done but accomplished very little in regards to changing policy - but he did help get some new people like Amash and Massie and Rand and they are helping to get some things done - Rand has played the game and actually had a lot of results - Trump has played the game and gotten the chance at creating even bigger results. It's no surprise that they each had to give up some essential tenants of liberty, Trump more-so than Rand, to get there - but at least they are pushing us in the right direction. Because like I said we really need both, and we need to not throw everybody under the bus who isn't totally pure unless they are a stooges for the establishment.

    I promise I'll hold Trump's feet to the fire if and when he makes mistakes, but there is a difference between holding someone's feet to the fire and throwing them under the bus. If Trump is just a puppet of the elite trying to fool us into thinking he is anti-establishment, then $#@! man, that sucks.. I admit it's a possibility. But if he is actually anti-establishment, he could make some major improvements to the system that we wouldn't have seen otherwise that could lead to a more free and prosperous life for everyone. I'm not ready to throw him under the bus yet. I expect he won't do everything I want him to do and I expect to have some disagreements.
    Mordan is full of $#@!, and trying to stir it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    Read the date of the Tweet. I learned about it today because Ron Paul got a vote.
    He didn't just "learned about it today."

    He "learned" about it back in May and just wants to stir up $#@! again. Post #2 is his.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-consideration
    Last edited by phill4paul; 12-20-2016 at 06:39 PM.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Mordan is full of $#@!, and trying to stir it.



    He didn't just "learned about it today."

    He "learned" about it back in May and just wants to stir up $#@! again. Post #2 is his.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-consideration
    Yes to all of that. this is a troll thread and nothing more.
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Forgive me, for a moment I thought you grew a brain.

  24. #21

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...52988774514688
    I dont think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president, he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. Hes the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...52988774514688
    Scare us up the Rand in Kenrucky tweet. Please.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  26. #23

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...50457396170753


    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...49793697902592
    I dont think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president, he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. Hes the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  27. #24
    it is hard to explain. I guess you guys can't grasp it.

    Trump is doing most of the things he does for Media Attention and Projection.

    Is he going to praise Rand for losing?

    I disagree with Trump on drugs, but I am not expecting a 69 old geezer who never drinks to understand the nuanced issues.

    I disagree with purism because nothing is black and white. Even Liberty. There are always gray areas.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    it is hard to explain. I guess you guys can't grasp it.

    Trump is doing most of the things he does for Media Attention and Projection.

    Is he going to praise Rand for losing?

    I disagree with Trump on drugs, but I am not expecting a 69 old geezer who never drinks to understand the nuanced issues.

    I disagree with purism because nothing is black and white. Even Liberty. There are always gray areas.
    It's funny you bring up grey areas when you don't seem to notice the grey area between Trump boot licking and purism.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post

    I disagree with Trump on drugs, but I am not expecting a 69 old geezer who never drinks to understand the nuanced issues.

    I disagree with purism because nothing is black and white. Even Liberty. There are always gray areas.
    But the drug war was one issue that Trump was actually good on before he ran for president. He got it as a 50-65 year old man. Now he suddenly decided prohibition works. It's not a gray area, and he he as no excuse since he used to understand it. This is why I don't expect anything good to happen. If he does stand for liberty I will be all for it, I just don't see it happening.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I won't, I didn't even vote for Trump. I just think he is a hundred thousand miles ahead of and better than Hillary. Nowhere close to perfect, doesn't understand the principle of liberty very well - but he is waaaayy better on foreign policy and economic policy. This isn't Bush vs. Kerry or Obama vs. McCain where we have two establishment stooges - we actually have a guy who might wanna fight for us for once, even if he doesn't have a perfect grasp of how to fix things it is a better vision than where we were headed with Hillary.
    Maybe you'll be better able to accept this position since the election is done now, it was my stance, and the prevalent stance among libertarians who wagered that Clinton would be better than Trump, that it was so because deporting potentially millions of people requires a grossly greater amount of force than does importing 10,000 refugees. And that progessivist protectionism is worse than progressivitst managed trade, which I'll admit are the same thing, expect in rhetoric which on one hand speaks unfavorably of foreign trade (protectionism) and the other positively of foreign trade. There was general consensus that Trump would be better on taxes and regulation. But that is small beans when compared to the prospects of a great number of individuals being uprooted and deported by the state. If you had actually engaged us during the election you would not be patting yourself on the back about things like school choice. And, if you will listen to the rhetoric coming out of Israel and from the militarists, you will see a picture being painted that Trump is very much a reconciliation of the Israel first and pro-US imperialist. It is rumored the Muslim Brotherhood will be labeled by the Trump administration as terrorist.... a group that had an elected president of Egypt not long ago! I wonder if the CIA will covertly keep them down?.... Just think, we just had a president that removed Hezbollah and Iran from the terrorist list, I find little doubt they will be added back based the rhetoric from Trump and those around him, plus more, and I am not supposed to make some connection between Trump and past militarism/neo-con establishment? What entangling alliance is it that gets us in most of our trouble in the middle east?


    I saw the clip of the video the media took out of context, but if you actually pull your head out of the mainstream media's ass and do the research on Trump yourself you would see I am right... he was against all of the wars in the last 15 years.

    Most people don't like Trump largely because of crap they have been lied about to by the mainstream media. It seems you are in that group.

    Specifically I was mentioning the video of Trump favorably speaking of bombing Libya. It is irrelevant at this point though. What is important is the more current. Only once he gets in will the story reveal itself, but I do think you are ignoring a lot of current warning signs in favor of cheering on school choice and the like.


    JBS was right about the communists, and back then the communists ruled Russia. Russia is no longer under control of the communists. The communists now control our country and the NWO. So it makes sense that the communists in this country who control the media now attack Russia.
    I can't say they are wrong, but JBS this year accused Russia as being behind the Texas shooting where the officers were gunned down. You guys would go ape $#@! if they did that today.

    That is one issue I am pretty skeptical about Trump on - I think he might expand the war on drugs (besides cannabis). I think cannabis is a good substance that helps people - heroin, cocaine and meth are not. All drugs should be legal, and Trump is wrong for wanting to continue the war on drugs.. but he would be doing a great service if he stopped the war on cannabis.
    Time shall tell.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    Trump is going to be great on foreign and domestic policy - believe me.

    He is also going to be terrific on economics and individual liberty. Believe me!
    But he wants to annihilate ISIS that NATO created, imprison whistle blowers, obstruct free trade, spend taxpayer resources on a useless war machine, and imprison certain types of free speech.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    Maybe you'll be better able to accept this position since the election is done now, it was my stance, and the prevalent stance among libertarians who wagered that Clinton would be better than Trump, that it was so because deporting potentially millions of people requires a grossly greater amount of force than does importing 10,000 refugees.
    Lol... dude.. Europe is about to have a civil war over immigration, maybe you should go visit there before trying to create the same problems here.

    Maybe you could have listened to the other side.. the side that shows how immigration in the last few decades has been nothing more than a huge government subsidized program.. Government programs require force.... and illegal immigrants use substantially more in government services than natives. They also vote for the left in much higher numbers. I'm actually an open borders guy (if we had a free market) and I was initially very much against Trump due to his immigration stance. But then I looked at the facts and the evidence and realized that if we want to destroy this country and turn it into a socialist hell hole by bringing in more leftist voters who are totally dependent on government, then we should elect Hillary.

    I still don't like the idea of deportation, and I hope Trump doesn't deport any peaceful individuals who haven't committed any crimes.. but you have to realize the amount of force being used against the native population in the form of slavery and taxes due to immigration, especially in the longrun as our country would have adopted more leftist policies is much greater than the amount of force that would be required to deport some illegal immigrants and build a wall. We can talk about open immigration when we end the welfare state. Until then we are basically giving every immigrant a gun and allowing them to come in and rob citizens of their wealth. That is not something libertarians should necessarily support.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    .

    I disagree with purism because nothing is black and white. Even Liberty. There are always gray areas.
    Gray areas lead to shadows.
    Shadows lead to darkness.


    When the blind lead the blind,, they both end up in the ditch.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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