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Thread: Why Did God Issue A Stronger Penalty For Eating Meat Than For Murder?

  1. #1

    Why Did God Issue A Stronger Penalty For Eating Meat Than For Murder?

    God tried to give the vegetarian diet to His newly formed church in the wilderness and as they rejected the Manna from heaven, God punished them by raining quails on them from which they died:

    "As they sinned yet more against Him by provoking the Most High in the wilderness. And they tempted God in their heart by asking meat for their lust. And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them corn of heaven. Men did eat [fallen] angels food [meat]: He sent them meat to the full and gave them over to their desire. They were not estranged from their lust. But while their meat was yet in their mouth, The wrath of God came upon them, and slew the fattest of them, and smote down the chosen men of Israel."---Psalms 78:17-31.

    So here, even AFTER the fall of man, God the father not only calls out the act of eating of meat as a SIN, but issues a much stiffer penalty than what Cain received for murder! Could it be that in Gods eyes, animals are more innocent/noble creatures than are human beings?

    - Isaiah 66:3 KJV “He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man”

    Christians should remember God's commandment "Thou shall not kill" which includes the unnecessary killing of animals. The exact Hebrew wording for "kill" in Exodus 20:13/Deuteronomy 5:17, is "tirtzack". One of the greatest scholars of Hebrew/English linguistics (in the Twentieth Century) -Dr. Reuben Alcalay - has written in his mammoth book the Complete Hebrew/English Dictionary that "tirtzach" refers to "any kind of killing whatsoever."






    It should seem clear from all of the above that the Golden Rule, the mother of all ethics, and as commanded by Jesus Christ, applies to ALL sentient beings, and not just to human beings - "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets". So clearly here, we can see that the true essence of Christianity is the ethic of VEGANISM, which is nothing more and nothing less than living in accordance with the Golden Rule.

    Acts 15:29 NIV “You are to abstain … from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.” This verse clearly does not permit the eating of meat as shown in the following analysis regarding Noah in Genesis 9:3-4 which contains nearly identical wording, not to mention that there are no procedures in place (for people who insist on twisting around verses like this into something it simply does not say), not even kosher, which can assure the removal of all blood from meat. In fact many Jews such as Dr Richard Schwartz of Staten Island believe that it is impossible to drain all the blood out of tiny capillaries. And since this is a New Testament command, it cannot be argued that it was nailed to the cross as were the ceremonial [non-ten commandments] laws of the Old Testament ...

    But didn't God grant Noah permission to eat meat in Genesis 9:3-4 for logistical reasons pertaining to the Great Flood? It turns out that this passage has been grossly misunderstood, as can be shown through proper contextual analysis and proper translation of a key Hebrew word, "remes" as "reptiles", but as we will see in the final analysis, not even the flesh of reptiles was to be eaten, but rather only their eggs. Here is how this passage reads in the King James Bible:

    "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. 4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat."

    There is an EXCELLENT presentation/analysis which explains how to properly understand this passage at the link provided below - in short:
    "What God actually said to Noah is this: you may eat fruit of the reptiles which contain seed just as you ate grain, herbs and fruits which contained seed, but beings or creatures or souls which are alive or animate whose life is in the blood you shall not eat. The text clearly prohibits the slaughter of animals for food whose life is in the blood. This is precisely how the original and earliest Jewish Christians actually understood the passage. Jewish Encyclopaedia points out that the earliest Jewish Christian sects argued their vegetarianism on the very statement of Genesis 9:4. They argued that in this passage God expressly forbade Noah to kill animals in order to eat their flesh. Before Noah entered the Ark, God told him to take with him all manner of food which is edible so that there would be food for him and the animals. This irrefutably proves that there was no carnivorous animal in the Ark since the Hebrew text plainly shows that food taken was for the herbivorous animals. The text of Genesis 9:2-4 therefore does not teach what the Church has claimed all these centuries but it rather irrefutably proves that Noah was vegetarian and that all animals at that time reverted back to vegetarianism as it was in the beginning and as it shall be in the end."
    - http://bewaredeception.com/index.php...icles&Itemid=3

    Mark 7:18-19 (More accurately translated): “Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him [to the extent that an evil thought can], because it does not enter his heart [like evil thoughts do] but [rather] his stomach, and [much of the bad part] is eliminated, thus [significantly] purifying all foods? NKJV

    Nowhere is there mention of clean and unclean food in this whole context. Why do we read the in verse 19: “For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") “? Does this, in the context of abolishing hygienic ordinances, make sense? Of course not.

    The whole argument started with an objection to some of His disciples eating bread without washing their hands. If you take this passage to mean that it is all right to eat unclean foods, you have missed the point.

    As for the sentence: (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")? It simply doesn’t appear in the original Greek. Jesus is not changing dietary directions here.

    Recently there were two world leaders. The first one experimented with drugs while he was in college, he had a mistress, he loved a good cigar and fine brandy, and he was famous for getting drunk at parties, even while he was in office. The second one was a vegetarian and a nonsmoker; he only drank beer in moderation, and he was faithful to his girlfriend. The United States Congress bestowed the first one with the greatest honor it had at its disposal, while we all revile the second one to this day. The first one was Winston Churchill, and the second one was Adolf Hitler.

    To conclude that Jesus In Mark 7 is endorsing a new diet is as ridiculous as saying that Jesus is now OK with Christians getting drunk at parties.

    Paul says that meat is no good (Romans 14:21) and Daniel 1:8 says that meat defiles! Paul also states "if I hurt one of the Lord’s followers by what I eat, I will never eat meat as long as I live” [1 Corinthians 8:9,13 The Bible for Today].

    In my published yet still unfinished white paper/article "Is Eating Meat A Sin?" ( http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=...30885369365252 ) I have for all intents and purposes proven that Jesus Christ and perhaps even the majority of early Christians were vegetarian. I do not understand why our own in house history scholar "Ter" has not yet acknolwledged this. I have cited many of the same history writers as Ter cites in his post "The Early Church Fathers and Free Will", yet Ter only shares his disdain that in one small part of this, the book of Thomas was referenced, stating specifically that "Your link does not prove anything other than quote from a Gnostic book" which is a gross misrepresentation of the treasure trove of historic information that is actually covered here:

    - http://www.all-creatures.org/murti/asource-11.html
    - http://www.all-creatures.org/murti/a...h-fathers.html

    I have also proven that even the King James Bible was modified in multiple places with regard to this nonsense with Jesus and the fish:

    1) Evidence indicates that the story of the loaves and the fishes did not originally include fish. For example, the earliest (pre-Gospel) accounts of this miracle do not include fish, and Jesus, when he refers to it, refers only to the bread (e.g., Mt 16:9-10, Mk 8:19-20, Jn 6:26). Fish were added to the stories by Greek scribes, probably because the Greek word for fish, ixous, is an acronym for the phrase “Jesus Christ Son of God Savior.” Indeed, the fish is still a symbol of Christianity today. In this very likely interpretation, the multiplication represents a prediction of the burgeoning Church and has nothing to do with eating animals.” – http://www.jesusveg.com/qow199.html

    2) Jesus is depicted as quite possibly eating fish in Luke 24:41-43, However, this passage has been demonstrated to be a forgery due to a clear logistics anomaly as you can see here [basically there is only one writer who mentions the fish, and two other writers who agree that Jesus was at an entirely different location at the same time]: http://www.all-creatures.org/discuss...atfish-jv.html

    3) “Most scholars agree that the post-resurrection stories of Jesus eating fish were added to the Gospels long after they were written, in order to settle various schisms in the early Church. (e.g., the Marcionites and other early Christians believed that Jesus did not actually return in the flesh. What better way to prove that he did than to depict him eating?) The scribes who added the stories were not, apparently, averse to eating fish. But since this is the only depiction anywhere in the Gospels of Jesus eating any animals at all, it seems clear that he was.
    http://www.jesusveg.com/qow199.html

    Many Christians believe that the King James Bible was never modified from the earliest manuscripts available, but as shown above [excerpts from my article], that notion does not appear to be based in reality.

    Further analysis reveals a very likely possibility that perhaps multiple books which were once considered scripture were removed from the mainstream canon in popular use today, perhaps because they foretold of Jesus Chist's coming, and/or because they had too strong of an emphasis on vegetarianism (as in the case of 1 Enoch for example - See also the article: "THE BOOK OF ENOCH, THE ORIGIN AND THE FOUNDATION OF CHRISTIANITY"). There are many indicaters that Luciferians/Illuminatti/Freemasons have been involved in secretly modifying the King James Bible (as well as others).

    The Book of Enoch [a prophet] (which has been preserved as scripture to this day in 2 Christian Bibles, both by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Church, and is also referenced/quoted in the book of Jude) states that the eating of flesh was taught by the fallen angels, which makes a lot more sense than the various passages in the mainstream Bible Old Testament (like in Leviticus for example) which depict a supposedly good/perfect God endorsing unnecessary violence ridden evil acts of eating flesh from slaughtered animals. Anyone who is capable of being 100% objective and honest with themselves should be able see this for what it REALLY IS, which is a BLATANT CONTRADICTION - it makes no sense whatsoever, UNLESS THAT IS, if the god permissive of meat eating behind those verses was not God the father, but rather a little 'g' fallen angel 'god', like for example Azazel, a chief instigator among the fallen angels:

    "The fact that all bloodshed is condemned in Chapter 19 of the Book of Enoch demonstrates that the term "sacrificing to demons as gods" does not mean that sacrifices to the correct god, as supposedly prescribed in "Leviticus" and "Exodus," are valid. This is the argument of orthodox Judaism, Christianity and Sunni Islam. In the Ethiopic Book of Enoch not only are all acts of bloodshed evil, whether of other creatures or of humans, but all alterations of creation whatsoever, such as mining or using cosmetics, are also regarded as evil. The morality of the book is plain: leave creation as it is; all alterations of God's creation are forbidden." - from "THE DENUNCIATION OF INDUSTRIAL CIVILIZATION" - http://www.oocities.org/ebionite23/page165.html

    The mainstream canon has exactly 66 books in it which of course is not a number we would expect from a perfect God of inspiration, but rather is a strong indicator that the freemasons/Luciferians have had their secret influence on the contents of the mainstream Bible. Perhaps the Ethiopian Orthodox Bible (81 books including 1 Enoch) provides a reference for how many books were removed wholesale.

    http://www.ethiopianorthodox.org/eng...cal/books.html

    The Illuminati/Kabbalah abiding fake Jews have claimed that they are descendants of the fallen angels. Their God not surprisingly is Lucifer. At some point in time they infiltrated the Freemasons to help disguise their bidding to bring about one day what today is referred to as a New World Order which would end all religions other than Luciferianism. There are countless accounts of this ancient history on the Internet, including a pretty good one which can be found at - http://www.conspiracyschool.com/lost-tribes-israel

    "There is a visible, obvious, verifiable occult connection between nearly all major religions today, especially with Freemasonry" [including Freemasonry sybolology found at the grave sites of nearly all organized religion founders]
    - http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False...onnection2.htm

    How Freemasons modified verse numbers in the 1611 King James Bible as a secret declaration of their Luciferian influence over the Christian Bible.
    - http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/k1005.cfm

    SHOCKING And HORRIBLE: Human Meat Found in McDonald’s (which has a money trail connection to Luciferianism) Meat-Some Of it The Flesh Of Children-Spirit Cooking The Nation
    Deut 28:53 “You’ll eat your own children—the flesh of your sons and daughters, whom the Lord your God gave you—on account of the siege and the distress with which your enemy will oppress you [So McDonald's is a worldwide enemy power that oppresses you!].
    - http://beforeitsnews.com/eu/2016/12/...n-2616915.html

    Even in the past 100 years there have been widely administered Bible modifications (apparently with evil intent). Perhaps the best example of this is the ever popular Scofield Bible, which became the cornerstone for the Christian Zionist war monger movement (representing a large portion of neocon voters). To this end, the following short documentary needs to be shared with every church pastor possible, since it is used very much in seminary even today:

    "The Roots of Christian Zionism: How Scofield Sowed Seeds of Apostasy"
    - http://vimeo.com/29901084

    Freemasonry behind the Jehovah Witness church:
    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Jehovah%20Witnesses/jw.htm

    MAJOR DISCOVERY IN FREEMASONRY!
    - http://www.cuttingedge.org/free18.htm

    Paul, Saint, the Apostle , a Freemason
    - http://masonicencyclopedia.com/topic...LE-A-FREEMASON

    For those who doubt the apostle Paul
    - http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/...stle-paul.html

    See also: TRUTH About Pearl Harbor: JESUS' PEARL In Mary's HARBOR On 12/7 & Born 9/11, 40 Weeks Later!
    - http://enterthestars.com/2016/12/07/...r-born-man-911
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IegDsgMLmrE

    It is therefore undeniable that Luciferians have been involved in a HUGE conspiracy not only over the content of nearly all Cristian Bibles, but over organized religion in general. It all ties in with their New World Order plan to replace all religions in favor of Luciferianism, and to continue along the path they initiated LONG LONG AGO, the practice of defiling our body/mind/spirit through the consumption of animal flesh.
    Last edited by RicoCabeza; 12-18-2016 at 08:53 AM.



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  3. #2
    Why did he require Blood Sacrifices?

    Check yer Cabeza
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Why did he require Blood Sacrifices?

    Check yer Cabeza
    The Book of Enoch [a prophet] (which has been preserved as scripture to this day in 2 Christian Bibles, both by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Church, and is also referenced/quoted in the book of Jude) states that the eating of flesh was taught by the fallen angels, which makes a lot more sense than the various passages in the mainstream Bible Old Testament (like in Leviticus for example) which depict a supposedly good/perfect God endorsing unnecessary violence ridden evil acts of eating flesh from slaughtered animals. Anyone who is capable of being 100% objective and honest with themselves should be able see this for what it REALLY IS, which is a BLATANT CONTRADICTION - it makes no sense whatsoever, UNLESS THAT IS, if the god permissive of meat eating behind those verses was not God the father, but rather a little 'g' fallen angel 'god', like for example Azazel, a chief instigator among the fallen angels:

    "The fact that all bloodshed is condemned in Chapter 19 of the Book of Enoch demonstrates that the term "sacrificing to demons as gods" does not mean that sacrifices to the correct god, as supposedly prescribed in "Leviticus" and "Exodus," are valid. This is the argument of orthodox Judaism, Christianity and Sunni Islam. In the Ethiopic Book of Enoch not only are all acts of bloodshed evil, whether of other creatures or of humans, but all alterations of creation whatsoever, such as mining or using cosmetics, are also regarded as evil. The morality of the book is plain: leave creation as it is; all alterations of God's creation are forbidden." - from "THE DENUNCIATION OF INDUSTRIAL CIVILIZATION" - http://www.oocities.org/ebionite23/page165.html

    Regarding animal sacrifices and presumably, God the father, we read in Jeremiah 7:22 (KJV): "For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices"

    Hosea, Micah, and Malachi proclaim the same. The temple in old Jerusalem was not intended for animal sacrifice, but rather for pure oblation.

    David in the Psalms Chapter 51 said; if God wanted sacrifice I would have offered it but He delights not in the blood of bulls and goats.

    “Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your judgments are like the great deep; you save humans and animals alike, O Lord.” —Psalms 36:6

    “How long will the land mourn, and the grass of every field wither? For the WICKEDness of those who live in it the animals and the birds are swept away, and because people said, ‘He is blind to our ways.'” —Jeremiah 12:4

    “Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy.” —Matthew 5:7
    In other words, those of you who cannot find it in your hearts to have mercy, will not receive mercy, and therefore will be destroyed forever more, since you will be found to be among THE WICKED.

    Luke 11:35, “Watch, then, that the light in you is not darkness.”

    So the Bible seems to make the point within the passages quoted above, as well as others included in my article "Is Eating Meat A Sin?" ( http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=...30885369365252 ), that world peace is not possible when sentient beings of any species (including humans) are eating meat. Keeping in mind these Bible passages, how then can the Bible also condone the eating of meat in certain select cases? Some Christians may say that God cursed the world in this way when sin entered the world to remind us daily that the consequence of sin is death. Others may cite this as psychopathic/unloving/disconnected thinking (because, for example, what sin did vegetarian cows commit to justify slaughter by meat eaters?). The Bible does teach that there was no death, even of animals, prior to sin – ( http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...ist-before-sin ). So if sin alone causes death, even of animals, and Christians are to refrain from sin, then it would seem anomalous for the Bible/Christians to ever condone the eating of meat, since as has been clearly shown here, the unnecessary eating of meat is evil psychopathic behavior, and therefore is clearly a sin. Since the Bible presents God as perfect and good, it should seem quite obvious that if there is any endorsement in the Bible by God the father which allows for unnecessary eating of meat, it would stand out as a clear contradiction - Good God versus Evil God. Could it be that the original Bible was written and/or modified in this way, pardoning in a few select cases the sin of eating meat, for selfish, political and/or fallen god/Illuminatti evil inspired reasons, in an attempt to justify their carnal desire to eat flesh, or worse yet, to corrupt and wreak havoc upon the human race?
    Last edited by RicoCabeza; 12-18-2016 at 07:32 AM.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoCabeza View Post
    The Book of Enoch
    I am one of the few with an appreciation for Enoch. I know how man was corrupted, and have posted on the subject.

    I am a worker in metals,, and I know where that came from.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  6. #5
    What about roadkill?

    Seems wasteful not to eat it.

    It didn't seem that Jesus had a problem with feeding fish to the multitude...

    Five loaves and two fish fed 5000....

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoCabeza View Post
    The Book of Enoch [a prophet] (which has been preserved as scripture to this day in 2 Christian Bibles, both by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Church, and is also referenced/quoted in the book of Jude) states that the eating of flesh was taught by the fallen angels, which makes a lot more sense than the various passages in the mainstream Bible Old Testament (like in Leviticus for example) which depict a supposedly good/perfect God endorsing unnecessary violence ridden evil acts of eating flesh from slaughtered animals. Anyone who is capable of being 100% objective and honest with themselves should be able see this for what it REALLY IS, which is a BLATANT CONTRADICTION - it makes no sense whatsoever, UNLESS THAT IS, if the god permissive of meat eating behind those verses was not God the father, but rather a little 'g' fallen angel 'god', like for example Azazel, a chief instigator among the fallen angels:

    "The fact that all bloodshed is condemned in Chapter 19 of the Book of Enoch demonstrates that the term "sacrificing to demons as gods" does not mean that sacrifices to the correct god, as supposedly prescribed in "Leviticus" and "Exodus," are valid. This is the argument of orthodox Judaism, Christianity and Sunni Islam. In the Ethiopic Book of Enoch not only are all acts of bloodshed evil, whether of other creatures or of humans, but all alterations of creation whatsoever, such as mining or using cosmetics, are also regarded as evil. The morality of the book is plain: leave creation as it is; all alterations of God's creation are forbidden." - from "THE DENUNCIATION OF INDUSTRIAL CIVILIZATION" - http://www.oocities.org/ebionite23/page165.html

    Regarding animal sacrifices and presumably, God the father, we read in Jeremiah 7:22 (KJV): "For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices"

    Hosea, Micah, and Malachi proclaim the same. The temple in old Jerusalem was not intended for animal sacrifice, but rather for pure oblation.

    David in the Psalms Chapter 51 said; if God wanted sacrifice I would have offered it but He delights not in the blood of bulls and goats.

    “Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your judgments are like the great deep; you save humans and animals alike, O Lord.” —Psalms 36:6

    “How long will the land mourn, and the grass of every field wither? For the WICKEDness of those who live in it the animals and the birds are swept away, and because people said, ‘He is blind to our ways.'” —Jeremiah 12:4

    “Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy.” —Matthew 5:7
    In other words, those of you who cannot find it in your hearts to have mercy, will not receive mercy, and therefore will be destroyed forever more, since you will be found to be among THE WICKED.

    Luke 11:35, “Watch, then, that the light in you is not darkness.”

    So the Bible seems to make the point within the passages quoted above, as well as others included in my article "Is Eating Meat A Sin?" ( http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=...30885369365252 ), that world peace is not possible when sentient beings of any species (including humans) are eating meat. Keeping in mind these Bible passages, how then can the Bible also condone the eating of meat in certain select cases? Some Christians may say that God cursed the world in this way when sin entered the world to remind us daily that the consequence of sin is death. Others may cite this as psychopathic/unloving/disconnected thinking (because, for example, what sin did vegetarian cows commit to justify slaughter by meat eaters?). The Bible does teach that there was no death, even of animals, prior to sin – ( http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...ist-before-sin ). So if sin alone causes death, even of animals, and Christians are to refrain from sin, then it would seem anomalous for the Bible/Christians to ever condone the eating of meat, since as has been clearly shown here, the unnecessary eating of meat is evil psychopathic behavior, and therefore is clearly a sin. Since the Bible presents God as perfect and good, it should seem quite obvious that if there is any endorsement in the Bible by God the father which allows for unnecessary eating of meat, it would stand out as a clear contradiction - Good God versus Evil God. Could it be that the original Bible was written and/or modified in this way, pardoning in a few select cases the sin of eating meat, for selfish, political and/or fallen god/Illuminatti evil inspired reasons, in an attempt to justify their carnal desire to eat flesh, or worse yet, to corrupt and wreak havoc upon the human race?
    Psalms 51 appears contradictory:

    51:16
    For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.


    51:18-19
    Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem. Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.


    On the other hand, maybe once Jerusalem is established, the sacrifice of bulls will be righteous?

    Isn't the bull the representation of Baal? Wasn't it a golden calf that infuriated Moses to the point of destroying the tablets?
    Last edited by Jamesiv1; 12-18-2016 at 12:18 PM.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Donít use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  8. #7
    The thing with animals is that they don't usually die of old age. Theyre usually on the menu or being ousted by a younger member of the same species. It's usually a brutal death.

    One could make the argument that removing an animal from the food chain in its prime is an act of mercy if done humanely.
    Last edited by The Northbreather; 12-18-2016 at 10:03 PM.

  9. #8
    Personally, I'm a believer in "Thou shalt not kill." as opposed to "Thou shalt not murder."

    I spent a few years very interested in Vedic spirituality, which is traditionally vegetarian. It was the best physically that I have felt in my life, along with the highest level of God-consciousness.

    Their contention is that EVERYTHING has a degree of consciousness, including inanimate things - so we should strive to nourish ourselves with things that are as low on the consciousness scale as possible - i.e. with plants instead of animals.

    Estimates are that 30%-40% of India's population is vegetarian - the highest on the planet.

    I believe they are on to something.
    Last edited by Jamesiv1; 12-18-2016 at 11:52 AM.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Donít use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV



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  11. #9
    The Bible is replete with the killing of the fatted calf, the tender lamb... if you're not going to eat them, there's no point in raising them either.
    Nobody mentions sinning when the host breaks out the tender, delicious young meat for the honored guest.



  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by fedupinmo View Post
    The Bible is replete with the killing of the fatted calf, the tender lamb... if you're not going to eat them, there's no point in raising them either.
    Nobody mentions sinning when the host breaks out the tender, delicious young meat for the honored guest.
    True.

    That the Israelites are a stiff-necked people is also true (according to the Bible).
    Last edited by Jamesiv1; 12-18-2016 at 11:54 AM.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Donít use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    Personally, I'm a believer in "Thou shalt not kill." as opposed to "Thou shalt not murder."

    I spent a few years very interested in Vedic spirituality, which is traditionally vegetarian. It was the best I felt in my life, along with the highest level of God-consciousness.

    Their contention is that EVERYTHING has a degree of consciousness, including inanimate things - so we should strive to nourish ourselves with things that are as low on the consciousness scale as possible - i.e. with plants instead of animals.

    Estimates are that 30%-40% of India's population is vegetarian - the highest on the planet.

    I believe they are on to something.
    Odd that many plants are known to heighten consciousness when consumed. Seems to only happen between these plants and humans.

    Maybe they're higher up on the consciousness scale than you think.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoCabeza View Post
    "The fact that all bloodshed is condemned in Chapter 19 of the Book of Enoch demonstrates that the term "sacrificing to demons as gods" does not mean that sacrifices to the correct god, as supposedly prescribed in "Leviticus" and "Exodus," are valid. This is the argument of orthodox Judaism, Christianity and Sunni Islam. In the Ethiopic Book of Enoch not only are all acts of bloodshed evil, whether of other creatures or of humans, but all alterations of creation whatsoever, such as mining or using cosmetics, are also regarded as evil. The morality of the book is plain: leave creation as it is; all alterations of God's creation are forbidden." - from "THE DENUNCIATION OF INDUSTRIAL CIVILIZATION" - http://www.oocities.org/ebionite23/page165.html
    Am I reading this right?

    The book of Enoch, (or at least the author of the book you quoted thinks this is the case), instructs that any act of building or farming or changing the natural state of the world in any way is forbidden by god?

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by The Northbreather View Post
    Odd that many plants are known to heighten consciousness when consumed. Seems to only happen between these plants and humans.

    Maybe they're higher up on the consciousness scale than you think.
    Good point

    Perhaps there is a difference between consuming plants for physical nourishment versus consuming plants as part of a spiritual experience...?

    Perhaps within the plant kingdom some plants are higher than others?
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Donít use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by The Northbreather View Post
    What about roadkill?

    Seems wasteful not to eat it.

    It didn't seem that Jesus had a problem with feeding fish to the multitude...

    Five loaves and two fish fed 5000....
    Never eat anything with a head bigger than your own.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Am I reading this right?

    The book of Enoch, (or at least the author of the book you quoted thinks this is the case), instructs that any act of building or farming or changing the natural state of the world in any way is forbidden by god?
    not quite.
    Or at least I did not read it so..
    We were taught those things, against God's wishes.. Several were punished and imprisoned..

    not hardly all of them.

    We are Broken Toys AF.. We are far from what we should have been,,

    Big fan of Restoration here.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by fedupinmo View Post
    The Bible is replete with the killing of the fatted calf, the tender lamb... if you're not going to eat them, there's no point in raising them either.
    Nobody mentions sinning when the host breaks out the tender, delicious young meat for the honored guest.


    The Bible is replete with things that were not originally God's will.... because we are living in fallen world.

    I believe that we can know God's will on this subject by reading Genesis 1:29-30 and Isaiah 11:7-9. For starters.
    Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

    Romans 12:2



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by The Northbreather View Post
    What about roadkill?

    Seems wasteful not to eat it.

    It didn't seem that Jesus had a problem with feeding fish to the multitude...

    Five loaves and two fish fed 5000....
    Eating roadkill is no violation of veganism (unless one wishes to argue that it is an issue of respect). However, remember Daniel 1:8 says that meat defiles

    As I have already covered, the original story of Jesus multiplying food did not include any reference to fish. Only bread is referenced.
    Last edited by RicoCabeza; 12-18-2016 at 05:03 PM.

  21. #18
    Nature's God provided me with the teeth to both tear meat or chew cud. Nature's God did not give me four stomachs, or even two. Nature's God created me an omnivore.
    And I'm fine with that.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  22. #19
    The OP is so ridiculous.

    Please stick around Rico.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    The OP is so ridiculous.

    Please stick around Rico.
    Whose sock puppet account is trolling everybody here?

    Sola's?

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Whose sock puppet account is trolling everybody here?

    Sola's?
    No way it's Sola. Could be Eduardo but I doubt that too. Both zealots would only troll based on their understanding of the "will of God" and the OP doesn't fit either.

    But here's something to consider for those who were happy Sola was banned. Ready? Nature abhors a vacuum. One troll gone, another takes his place. Just sayin'
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  25. #22
    And then you get to the other argument.

    Agriculture( growing crops for human consumption) as opposed to gathering is absolutely displacing and killing wild animals at any scale.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Working Poor View Post
    Never eat anything with a head bigger than your own.
    Head or brain?

    And why do you say that lol ?

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Working Poor View Post
    Never eat anything with a head bigger than your own.
    Agreed.

    At least not in one sitting.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Whose sock puppet account is trolling everybody here?

    Sola's?
    Nah, I would guess ferrari.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Nah, I would guess ferrari.
    Yep . Crazy from the lack of protein , malnourished brain .LOL
    Do something Danke

  31. #27
    He kind of reminds me of farreri, too. But I'm pretty sure farreri is an atheist... or a secular non-christian.

    So unless Rico is putting on a big act here, I don't think it's the same person.


    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Yep . Crazy from the lack of protein , malnourished brain .LOL
    You can get plenty of protein from non-animal sources. But I'll assume that you were mostly kidding.
    Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

    Romans 12:2

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by The Northbreather View Post
    And then you get to the other argument.

    Agriculture( growing crops for human consumption) as opposed to gathering is absolutely displacing and killing wild animals at any scale.
    I have a farm in Costa Rica where I grow over 50 kinds of fruits and I must say that the birds and squirrels and other animals really seem to enjoy eating many of the fruits I grow just as much as I do (oftentimes 50+ wild parakeets alone). And if I were in another mountain range about 30 miles away, there would be monkeys eating around 30% of my durians too.

    However, assuming there is some truth to what you say, how do you reconcile this with:

    “Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your judgments are like the great deep; you save humans and animals alike, O Lord.” —Psalms 36:6

    “How long will the land mourn, and the grass of every field wither? For the WICKEDness of those who live in it the animals and the birds are swept away, and because people said, ‘He is blind to our ways.'” —Jeremiah 12:4
    Last edited by RicoCabeza; 12-19-2016 at 03:30 AM.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by fedupinmo View Post
    The Bible is replete with the killing of the fatted calf, the tender lamb... if you're not going to eat them, there's no point in raising them either.
    Nobody mentions sinning when the host breaks out the tender, delicious young meat for the honored guest.
    Ummmmm....it makes sense to raise sheep for wool. It makes sense to raise cows for milk. And people raise dogs and cats for pets. Of course in some countries "man's best friend" is also "man's best meal."



    You salivate at bacon? Many people in China salivate at this.



    Looks kind of like roast suckling pig doesn't it?



    Look? You'll never get your chicken, sheep, cow or goat to do this. (You might get a pig to do it though).



    Of course they're lucky. ^Those are police dogs. I'm sure the police in China are good to their dogs like the police in the U.S. and only shoot OPD (other people's dogs) for food.

    Merry Christmas! I had real turkey and veggetarian turkey and the church Christmas party yesterday. And to be honest...the vegetarian turkey tasted better.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoCabeza View Post
    I have a farm in Costa Rica where I grow over 50 kinds of fruits and I must say that the birds and squirrels and other animals really seem to enjoy eating many of the fruits I grow just as much as I do (oftentimes 50+ wild parakeets alone). And if I were in another mountain range about 30 miles away, there would be monkeys eating around 30% of my durians too.

    However, assuming there is some truth to what you say, how do you reconcile this with:

    “Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your judgments are like the great deep; you save humans and animals alike, O Lord.” —Psalms 36:6

    “How long will the land mourn, and the grass of every field wither? For the WICKEDness of those who live in it the animals and the birds are swept away, and because people said, ‘He is blind to our ways.'” —Jeremiah 12:4
    I agree that fruit and nut trees are a blessing. I tell anyone who owns property to not waste time and plant them immediately.

    Growing fruit near the equator where trees are in perpetual bloom is not the norm for most...
    Last edited by The Northbreather; 12-19-2016 at 09:41 AM.

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