Peace back in this forum this morning

[Christian Liberty]

I'm personally not celebrating Sola being banned despite having some major problems with a lot of what he was saying, I was contemplating doing a massive response to his rather inane defense of the notion that a minister, let alone any person for that matter, can actually know who is saved and who isn't. I can see the reason for doing so since the guy clearly was flooding the forum with pointless threads, but I'm sure there are some individuals on this forum that are a little too jolly over this turn of events who might dance the jig if I should ever get booted from here.

I guess it speaks to the "open-minded" character of "patriotic" Americans and their love of so-called "free speech" that they get a thrill up their leg at people getting banned from public forums. Loving the hypocrisy.

If you ever write this, could you send it to me even if you don't post it publicly for the rest of the forum? As someone who grew up baptist and may still too much think like a baptist with some of these issues, I'd be curious to read what you would write on it.

Sola got a bit carried away with that stuff though I am glad that he didn't go along with the false peace among everyone regardless of what they believe schtick that was so common here. I agree with you more than I do with him (by a fair margin) but I'm struggling to really think of anyone else I agree with more. Theo maybe? But even still I've spoken with him on the phone and some of the stuff he said about Federal Vision was, at the least, a bit concerning to me. (Funnily enough, Sola said I would get into FV as soon as I started getting into theonomy and Presbyterianism, and that still hasn't happened.)

[Christian Liberty]

P.S. - The notion that Sola was supporting Hillary makes me question his sincerity if he's going to claim to be some kind of "Particular Baptist", though it may have been his sanity that needed questioning. Nevertheless, I don't agree with him getting axed permanently, though if he was breaking specific forum guidelines, a temporary ban is defensible.

I suspect Sola may have been somewhat trolling Hillary supporters/thinking Hillary was preferable to Trump though still not good. In the latter case, while this isn't true at face value (ie. Trump's set of policies is not as bad as Hillary's set of policies) when you consider the effect each would have on the church, you could at least make a case that Trump is worse (primarily because of the church getting tied up in Trumpism because of Falwell types.... admittedly YOUR church might be immune to this, but given even the OPC's unfortunate willingness to partner with baptists and allow baptists to join, they probably won't be.) Even though I was marginally preferring a Trump win over a Hillary win, I have very serious concerns for what this will mean for the church. (And honestly, given some of the comments I've seen from a couple of the Dodson kids on FB, even though I know you guys didn't actually vote for Trump, I have some concerns for you guys as well to be honest. They were celebrating too much for me to be comfortable with.)

[Theocrat]

If you ever write this, could you send it to me even if you don't post it publicly for the rest of the forum? As someone who grew up baptist and may still too much think like a baptist with some of these issues, I'd be curious to read what you would write on it.

Sola got a bit carried away with that stuff though I am glad that he didn't go along with the false peace among everyone regardless of what they believe schtick that was so common here. I agree with you more than I do with him (by a fair margin) but I'm struggling to really think of anyone else I agree with more. Theo maybe? But even still I've spoken with him on the phone and some of the stuff he said about Federal Vision was, at the least, a bit concerning to me. (Funnily enough, Sola said I would get into FV as soon as I started getting into theonomy and Presbyterianism, and that still hasn't happened.)

What exactly did I say about "Federal Vision" that concerned you?

[Christian Liberty]

What exactly did I say about "Federal Vision" that concerned you?

Possible redefining of justification especially. The denial of a covenant of works also seems to have problematic applications though I know Bahnsen and Rushdoony denied it and yet did not take this denial into heresy.

[Theocrat]

Possible redefining of justification especially. The denial of a covenant of works also seems to have problematic applications though I know Bahnsen and Rushdoony denied it and yet did not take this denial into heresy.

How did I redefine "justification"? I remember telling you that the Bible has much more to say about the doctrine of justification than has been written in the Reformed standards. I also said that we should look at justification through the language and symbols used in the Bible, not through the terminology of the Reformed standards.

[RJB]

Another thread turns into a discussion on Calvinism

[pcosmar]

Another thread turns into a discussion on Calvinism

The One True Church. again.

[bunklocoempire]

I didn't listen much to SF, but I heard him, and know exactly where he's coming from. If you know where they're coming from, you can excuse the delivery and have some compassion. I realize individual mileage may vary.

A Christian IS at war with the world to the point of their own flesh. Being at war with my own flesh is a hard concept for others to grasp. "My flesh is fine, f-off" used to be my own mindset, so again, I know exactly where SF is coming from.

"You might want to get off of the government road, there is a vehicle approaching that will kill you"
"Get out of the $*&^#(@ road you idiot!"

I prefer the expedient warning, even with the insult. Most people do not.
I used to take people's poor reactions to these admittedly strange concepts personally, and then I got a clue.

Do I have issues with my fellow man? Or do I have issues with God? I tend to pretend I have issues with other people, that way, I can grade myself on a curve and attempt to ignore Jesus.
I do best when I START with Jesus.

The constant temptation to have internal affairs handle the investigation. lol
I notice that quite a bit around here, because I definitely see myself doing it.

Peace. ...and not the mamby-pamby kind, either.

[tod evans]

I see Sola's back..........

[Sola_Fide]

I see Sola's back..........

I think adult people can have adult conversations, don't you? Please don't disrespect the people who actually enjoy and learn from the posts that are offered on this forum.

Many people have mentioned (to me personally, and in other posts) that they actually learn things they never knew from the discussions that happen on this forum.

For the time I was gone, I would check back on this forum and it was completely boring and had almost no views. When the usual contributors are here, this forum gets hundreds of posts and thousands of views per week. It is the ultimate disrespect to religious people to deny them the opportunity to flush out their faith, make it consistent, or debate how it relates to politics or liberty.

[tod evans]

I think adult people can have adult conversations, don't you? Please don't disrespect the people who actually enjoy and learn from the posts that are offered on this forum.

Many people have mentioned (to me personally, and in other posts) that they actually learn things they never knew from the discussions that happen on this forum.

For the time I was gone, I would check back on this forum and it was completely boring and had almost no views. When the usual contributors are here, this forum gets hundreds of posts and thousands of views per week. It is the ultimate disrespect to religious people to deny them the opportunity to flush out their faith, make it consistent, or debate how it relates to politics or liberty.

Where have I "disrespected" anybody in the religion forum?

I have called you out for being unnecessarily confrontational but in my eyes that isn't disrespectful in the least.

Annnnnd, here you are confronting me and accusing me of behavior I don't exhibit in this sub-forum...

I'll use different verbiage in the main forum but not here.....If you want to behave poorly that's on you...

Didn't your Mama teach you manners?

[Sola_Fide]

Where have I "disrespected" anybody in the religion forum?

I have called you out for being unnecessarily confrontational but in my eyes that isn't disrespectful in the least.

Annnnnd, here you are confronting me and accusing me of behavior I don't exhibit in this sub-forum...

I'll use different verbiage in the main forum but not here.....If you want to behave poorly that's on you...

Didn't your Mama teach you manners?

Weren't you one of the ones calling for my ban? If not, then I apologize.

But I do think the sentiment that there should be no "division" in a religious forum is itself disrespectful to religious people. It carries with it the idea that religious ideas are entirely subjective and that religious ideas are not to be held to the standard of logic.

Many of us here that have a Christian worldview actually LIKE to debate these things. We like it because we learn things. People who are not Christians actually LIKE to read these discussions because they are examining the evidence just like anyone else.

[Sola_Fide]

Another thread turns into a discussion on Calvinism

This is the other thing that bothers me a little bit. You may not like that there are Calvinists here that like to express their views, but shouldn't they have equal access to express their views in any thread just like anyone else?

I've always felt the opposite. I love when TER posts every day about his church and I love that atheists come to the forum and want to engage with things. It is the sign of confidence in your worldview that you want differing opinions to be aired.

Doesn't everyone love when statists come to the forum and want to challenge us libertarian whakos? I love it. And I love seeing the responses because I learn things.

[tod evans]

Weren't you one of the ones calling for my ban? If not, then I apologize. .

Absolutely not!

Apology accepted.

You have my blessing to discuss whatever you like however you like up until you start telling me what I think.

[Natural Citizen]

I see Sola's back..........

Well. Heh. I suppose nothing generates click revenue live a bunch of division and in-fighting. Oh how our humble home has fallen from its glory. And by its own hand, no less.

[Sola_Fide]

Well. Heh. I suppose nothing generates click revenue live a bunch of division and in-fighting. Oh how our humble home has fallen from its glory. And by its own hand, no less.

Don't get your panties in a bunch.

[tod evans]

Well. Heh. I suppose nothing generates click revenue live a bunch of division and in-fighting. Oh how our humble home has fallen from its glory. And by its own hand, no less.

After condemning the entire Methodist congregation and refusing to apologize for the brazen act I have nothing to say to the deceiver.

He tried several times to divert from his act and twist what he typed into something else to avoid having to man up and admit he was out of line..

I know of no respectable, honest Christian who would behave in such a manner.

Questions instead of opinions, condemning, dividing, scripture twisting and plain ol' bad manners............I don't need that kind of behavior in my religious discussions.

[donnay]

After condemning the entire Methodist congregation and refusing to apologize for the brazen act I have nothing to say to the deceiver.

He tried several times to divert from his act and twist what he typed into something else to avoid having to man up and admit he was out of line..

I know of no respectable, honest Christian who would behave in such a manner.

Questions instead of opinions, condemning, dividing, scripture twisting and plain ol' bad manners............I don't need that kind of behavior in my religious discussions.

I am out of rep.

Hear! Hear! Not to mention, if Sola was a good Christian he would know it is a sin to judge others. We have one spiritual judge and that is the Father.

[Natural Citizen]

I am out of rep.

Hear! Hear! Not to mention, if Sola was a good Christian he would know it is a sin to judge others. We have one spiritual judge and that is the Father.

Well, I had rep to give him. Hear! Hear! indeed. And agreed on the latter. If S_F was a good Christian he would know it is a sin to judge others.

But alas, I'm outta rep for you, donnay.

[Sola_Fide]

After condemning the entire Methodist congregation and refusing to apologize for the brazen act I have nothing to say to the deceiver.

He tried several times to divert from his act and twist what he typed into something else to avoid having to man up and admit he was out of line..

I know of no respectable, honest Christian who would behave in such a manner.

Questions instead of opinions, condemning, dividing, scripture twisting and plain ol' bad manners............I don't need that kind of behavior in my religious discussions.

It's not just Methodists.... I gave you a long list of other ones the Bible condemns too.

[Natural Citizen]

It's not just Methodists.... I gave you a long list of other ones the Bible condemns too.

I'll bet you a dollar that your list didn't include Calvinists.

oh...Reformed Calvinistic Baptists....hehehe.

Ya weasel.

[tod evans]

It's not just Methodists.... I gave you a long list of other ones the Bible condemns too.

I condemn the Methodist church because they don't preach the gospel.

More deceit.

More twisting.

More un-Christian like behavior.

Apologize!

[Sola_Fide]

More deceit.

More twisting.

More un-Christian like behavior.

Apologize!

If you stood with God's Word, and cared about God's glory in salvation, you would too. But I don't think those things are important to you.

[donnay]

If you stood with God's Word, and cared about God's glory in salvation, you would too. But I don't think those things are important to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 (KJV)

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

[Sola_Fide]

2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 (KJV)

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Good verse. Doesn't have a whole lot to do with what we are talking about, but good verse anyway. Do you do that on purpose? Posting verses randomly that have nothing to do with the conversation?

[donnay]

Good verse. Doesn't have a whole lot to do with what we are talking about, but good verse anyway. Do you do that on purpose? Posting verses randomly that have nothing to do with the conversation?

Yeah it is a good verse, and it was directed, specifically, for you. (Hint: Strong delusion)

[VIDEODROME]

Join the club. We're going to Hell.

[Sola_Fide]

Yeah it is a good verse, and it was directed, specifically, for you. (Hint: Strong delusion)

I thought you didn't believe God interferes with people's free will? Now you believe that God deludes people into believing lies? When did you change your view on that?

[donnay]

I thought you didn't believe God interferes with people's free will? Now you believe that God deludes people into believing lies? When did you change your view on that?

GOD is not forcing anyone to love Him but he will certainly give them a chance to know the truth.

[Sola_Fide]

GOD is not forcing anyone to love Him but he will certainly give them a chance to know the truth.

But you say God is forcing people to be deluded and believe lies.

Why are you saying that if you believe men have free wills?