Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 31 to 59 of 59

Thread: Rick Perry, Ex-Governor of Texas, Is Trumpís Pick as Energy Secretary

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Cool. I can dump my highly radioactive nuclear waste anywhere I want. Your water supply. Your farmlands. Your back yard.
    Do you know what a straw-man argument is by chance?

    Do you really think that is how free market environmentalism is supposed to work?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Do you know what a straw-man argument is by chance?

    Do you really think that is how free market environmentalism is supposed to work?

    China had few restrictions on pollution. As a result, their air is toxic and most of their rivers are unsafe to even swim in. Free market at work. They have since been trying to tighten them. The free market fails because polluters do not have to pay the full costs of dealing with their wastes so they produce excess amounts of them. If the pay the full, real costs they will make efforts to reduce those costs. When the cost is zero, they have no incentive.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-14-2016 at 03:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



  4. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  5. #33
    ďI donít think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,Ē he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. Heís the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    China had few restrictions on pollution. As a result, their air is toxic and most of their rivers are unsafe to even swim in. Free market at work. They have since been trying to tighten them. The free market fails because polluters do not have to pay the full costs of dealing with their wastes so they produce excess amounts of them. If the pay the full, real costs they will make efforts to reduce those costs. When the cost is zero, they have no incentive.
    See, this is why nobody here actually thinks you are actually a Ron Paul supporter.

    Ron Paul explained free market environmentalism during the Ronald Reagan debate in 2008. If you still don't understand it after all these years, after the dozen or so times I have personally explained it to you, then you are either a posting bot or you don't care about liberty.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    China had few restrictions on pollution. As a result, their air is toxic and most of their rivers are unsafe to even swim in. Free market at work.
    Newsflash! China is hardly a bastion of free market. The source of pollution is overwhelmingly created or caused by the gargantuan government itself.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  8. #36
    In terms of environment, they have been free market- not restricting output of pollution in exchange for trying to achieve government goals of output. Now they are trying to deal with the consequences of their free market environmental policies. We had similar problems during our own industrial revolution.

    And don't forget about Chernobyl and Fukushima or Three Mile Island. How bad could they have been in the absence of any regulation?
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-14-2016 at 03:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Cool. I can dump my highly radioactive nuclear waste anywhere I want. Your water supply. Your farmlands. Your back yard.
    Because prior to 1978, before we had a Department of Energy, we were all just living awash in Zippy's nuclear waste everywhere. It's simply amazing how any of us even survived.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    In terms of environment, they have been free market- not restricting output of pollution in exchange for trying to achieve government goals of output. Now they are trying to deal with the consequences of their free market environmental policies. We had similar problems during our own industrial revolution.

    And don't forget about Chernobyl and Fukushima. How bad could they have been in the absence of any regulation?
    1:25

    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  11. #39
    Hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent trying to clean it all up. Nuclear waste lasts for thousands of years. It doesn't go away over time like other pollutants can.

    http://bellona.org/news/nuclear-issu...in-arctic-seas

    Russia announces enormous finds of radioactive waste and nuclear reactors in Arctic seas


    Bellona had received in 2011 a draft of a similar report prepared for Russia’s Gossoviet, the State Council, for presentation at a meeting presided over by then-president Dmitry Medvedev on Russian environmental security.

    The Russian state nuclear corporation Rosatom confirmed the figures in February of this year during a seminar it jointly held with Bellona in Moscow.

    Bellona is alarmed by the extent of the dumped Soviet waste, which is far greater than was previously known – not only to Bellona, but also to the Russian authorities themselves.

    The catalogue of waste dumped at sea by the Soviets, according to documents seen by Bellona, and which were today released by the Norwegian daily Aftenposten, includes some 17,000 containers of radioactive waste, 19 ships containing radioactive waste, 14 nuclear reactors, including five that still contain spent nuclear fuel; 735 other pieces of radiactively contaminated heavy machinery, and the K-27 nuclear submarine with its two reactors loaded with nuclear fuel.
    Kudrik said that one of the most critical pieces of information missing from the report released to the Norwegian Radiation Protection Authority was the presence of the K-27 nuclear submarine, which was scuttled in 50 meters of water with its two reactors filled with spent nuclear fuel in in Stepovogo Bay in the Kara Sea in 1981.

    Information that the reactors about the K-27 could reachieve criticality and explode was released at the Bellona-Rosatom seminar in February.

    “This danger had previously been unknown, and is very important information. When they search and map these reactors, they must be the first priority,” said Kudrik.

    Researchers will now evaluate whether it is possible to raise the submarine, and attempt to determine if it is leaking radioactivity into the sea.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-14-2016 at 04:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  12. #40
    So Zip picks an example of government pollution. All this created by big government, in fact perhaps the largest government ever, filled with massive departments with massive levels of regulations of all aspects of human life.
    So Zips point is government causes pollution. Shrink it now.

    "But, but, but without the Department of Energy, where would our energy come from?"
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.



  13. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    See, this is why nobody here actually thinks you are actually a Ron Paul supporter.

    Ron Paul explained free market environmentalism during the Ronald Reagan debate in 2008. If you still don't understand it after all these years, after the dozen or so times I have personally explained it to you, then you are either a posting bot or you don't care about liberty.
    That isn't a sufficient explanation. By his definition, every industrial business, if not every person, is violating property rights. Every time a power plant or factory spews pollution into the air, do they need to write a check to every person in the world?

    Ron Paul has strongly advocated for local and state policies to curb pollution...even though that often leads to localities shifting the pollution elsewhere rather than cleaning it up.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    In terms of environment, they have been free market- not restricting output of pollution in exchange for trying to achieve government goals of output. Now they are trying to deal with the consequences of their free market environmental policies. We had similar problems during our own industrial revolution.

    And don't forget about Chernobyl and Fukushima or Three Mile Island. How bad could they have been in the absence of any regulation?

    I like you Zippy but you're wrong here.

    There's no free market when the government ALLOWS the biggest polluter to pollute as much as they want.

    You have a free market when there is recourse in case someone pollutes your property.

    Property rights... You can do whatever the $#@! you want so long as you do not pollute other peoples property.
    "I am a bird"

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.No. View Post
    That isn't a sufficient explanation. By his definition, every industrial business, if not every person, is violating property rights. Every time a power plant or factory spews pollution into the air, do they need to write a check to every person in the world?

    Ron Paul has strongly advocated for local and state policies to curb pollution...even though that often leads to localities shifting the pollution elsewhere rather than cleaning it up.
    Well, if you can prove that a power-plant is polluting your soil, air or water... Then you should be able to sue, definitely. Whether or not CO2 counts as a pollutant, that's debatable of course.

    Nobody said a free market would be the most fun situation for everyone, especially large corporations, but at least it's fair.
    "I am a bird"

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    I like you Zippy but you're wrong here.

    There's no free market when the government ALLOWS the biggest polluter to pollute as much as they want.

    You have a free market when there is recourse in case someone pollutes your property.

    Property rights... You can do whatever the $#@! you want so long as you do not pollute other peoples property.
    A true free market means no government interference. That means you can pollute as much as you like.

    But it is simple. Just sue them under property rights.

    The difficulty with property is who owns the air? Who owns the seas and the rivers? Water and air move. You cannot restrict where it goes to. You cannot define who owns a particular piece of it. It is common property. Property rights are fine if I say smash your car. It is obvious who owns it and what the costs of the damages were (the costs of the repair). That is harder with air and water.

    Then you have to prove direct cause and effect and costs. If you get sick it is difficult to say what caused it. Was it pollution or exposure to a germ? Was it one particular polluter or is it possibly many sources? What percent of damages should go to each assuming you can prove direct cause of injury and its costs? Is it the sole responsibility of the polluter to control their output or do you have some responsibility to try to prevent it from coming onto your property? If I like to smoke and you don't like to, is it my responsibility to not smoke or it is your fault it got into your place because you left your window open- didn't secure your own property rights- like putting up a fence around it to keep out unwanted people or animals or whatever. It is extremely difficult and expensive to bring a lawsuit. And companies have deeper pockets to fight it.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-14-2016 at 04:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    A true free market means no government interference. That means you can pollute as much as you like.

    But it is simple. Just sue them under property rights.

    The difficulty with property is who owns the air? Who owns the seas and the rivers? Water and air move. You cannot restrict where it goes to. You cannot define who owns a particular piece of it. It is common property. Property rights are fine if I say smash your car. It is obvious who owns it and what the costs of the damages were (the costs of the repair). That is harder with air and water.

    Then you have to prove direct cause and effect and costs. If you get sick it is difficult to say what caused it. Was it pollution or exposure to a germ? Was it one particular polluter or is it possibly many sources? What percent of damages should go to each assuming you can prove direct cause of injury and its costs? Is it the sole responsibility of the polluter to control their output or do you have some responsibility to try to prevent it from coming onto your property? If I like to smoke and you don't like to, is it my responsibility to not smoke or it is your fault it got into your place because you left your window open- didn't secure your own property rights- like putting up a fence around it to keep out unwanted people or animals or whatever. It is extremely difficult and expensive to bring a lawsuit. And companies have deeper pockets to fight it.
    You're right that's difficult... I would say though that the way pollution is dealt with at the moment is far from ideal as well.

    Same people with deep pockets who get away with stuff they shouldn't get away with.
    "I am a bird"

  19. #46
    You still can sue. The "property rights" argument has not been removed. Government rules against polluting and causing damages makes it easier to do so though it still can be a challenge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  20. #47
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  21. #48
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



  22. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    China had few restrictions on pollution. As a result, their air is toxic and most of their rivers are unsafe to even swim in. Free market at work. They have since been trying to tighten them. The free market fails because polluters do not have to pay the full costs of dealing with their wastes so they produce excess amounts of them. If the pay the full, real costs they will make efforts to reduce those costs. When the cost is zero, they have no incentive.
    Quite the other way around. China has a government that claims absolute control over the issue and will not allow private property owners to seek justice for abuses done to them or their property. Therefore corporations can get away with anything, because the government protects them from justice and backs up their violation of property rights with the protection of the state's overwhelming violence.

    Indeed, the idea that paying a fine will limit pollution is fallacious. All that does is establish a minimum/maximum that the corporations have to worry about and allows them to get away with whatever they want. Pay the fine, get away with poisoning a town's water supply. It isn't punishment, it is the illusion of such to provide a cloak of protection for their actions.
    Last edited by PierzStyx; 12-14-2016 at 05:56 PM.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.No. View Post
    That isn't a sufficient explanation. By his definition, every industrial business, if not every person, is violating property rights. Every time a power plant or factory spews pollution into the air, do they need to write a check to every person in the world?

    Ron Paul has strongly advocated for local and state policies to curb pollution...even though that often leads to localities shifting the pollution elsewhere rather than cleaning it up.
    Mises has a good write-up on how a free market would help protect against and even motivate the innovation to eliminate air pollution whereas the government protects it.

    https://mises.org/library/libertaria...esto-pollution

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    Maybe he will lay off 75% of his employees.
    I would start with 90 percent , then check in about 3 months and see if anyone noticed .
    Do something Danke

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Mises has a good write-up on how a free market would help protect against and even motivate the innovation to eliminate air pollution whereas the government protects it.

    https://mises.org/library/libertaria...esto-pollution
    That's a good piece. Certainly some good ideas, and frankly, that is how I imagine a free market would do it. However, such models still include a court system. Isn't that government regulation? The vast majority of government regulations find their origins in court cases. You are still counting on your court system not being captured by special interests; ruling "properly", etc.

    And of course, you will end up in a situation where companies will go to the states were the legal system has defined property rights very loosely.

    There, I think, the is the rub. Mises even mentions in the article that there is disagreement within the community as to what constitutes "property rights". Individual conservatives/libertarians have a view of property rights that they think everyone should adhere to. But how do you get people to adhere to that? Even in the US, we never have had that strict definition of property rights...the constitution even allows the seizing of private property for the common good.

  27. #53
    Finally a reason to post this video once again. Thanks Trump.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=U6bbBz1Au9Q

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Newsflash! China is hardly a bastion of free market. The source of pollution is overwhelmingly created or caused by the gargantuan government itself.
    ^This.

  29. #55
    If putting Perry in charge doesn't eliminate DOE, nothing will.
    "The journalist is one who separates the wheat from the chaff, and then prints the chaff." - Adlai Stevenson

    ďI tell you that virtue does not come from money: but from virtue comes money and all other good things to man, both to the individual and to the state.Ē - Socrates

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Champuckett View Post
    Finally a reason to post this video once again. Thanks Trump.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=U6bbBz1Au9Q
    I luv the interwebz lolol



  31. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Because prior to 1978, before we had a Department of Energy, we were all just living awash in Zippy's nuclear waste everywhere. It's simply amazing how any of us even survived.
    Exactly. We should be devolving government agencies back to their original roles. Not everything needs to be a dadgum cabinet position.

    XNN
    "They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Maybe he will work himself right out of a job. That would be fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    Maybe he will lay off 75% of his employees.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Yes. It would make way for much better and safer nuclear power.

    Just for Swordshyll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Original_Intent View Post
    If putting Perry in charge doesn't eliminate DOE, nothing will.
    LOL Not even Perry could kill it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I didn't vote for Trump.
    A POX ON BOTH YOUR PARTIES

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Just for Swordshyll.



    LOL Not even Perry could kill it.
    I see to hopeful maybes, no guarantees.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12


Similar Threads

  1. Rick Perry Should Rick Perry resign as governor of Texas?
    By kejonn in forum 2012 Presidential Election
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-15-2011, 09:20 PM
  2. Texas governor Rick Perry goes on attack
    By Number19 in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 12-05-2010, 10:44 PM
  3. Texas Governor Rick Perry "Bush Defended Us From Freedom"
    By purplechoe in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-05-2010, 02:09 AM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-24-2010, 10:23 PM
  5. NRA Endorses Republican Texas Governor Rick Perry
    By RonPaulFanInGA in forum Debra Medina Forum 2010
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 01-24-2010, 08:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •