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Thread: Why We Use the King James Bible

  1. #1

    Why We Use the King James Bible

    Why We Use the King James Bible

    By: Brandon T. Ward

    If you have been a reader of this site for a while or gone through our Bible Studies you probably realize by now we love and only use the King James Version Bible (KJV). You would have also noticed we use a Strong’s Concordance in our studies.

    Many people are surprised or even offended when it is pointed out that the KJV Bible has errors. Some will offer scripture to refute those claims. One verse is, II Timothy 3:16 which states: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”

    Another is Psalms 12:6, “The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.”

    Those are true statements. However, what the reader must understand is our Bible was not written in English. It was translated into English from the “ancient manuscripts” which are the original writings our Bibles comes from. Did God translate the KJV Bible? No, it was man. Is man perfect? No. With that said, God’s Word, the “ancient manuscripts” are perfect. Once man places his hand on the manuscripts and creates a new document through translation we can and do have errors.

    The original KJV Bible was translated in the Year of our Lord 1611. The translators were so concerned about the task they performed they wrote a lengthy letter to the reader, stating they did the best they could, but the reader should use due diligence in reading their translation. Meaning, the reader should verify the KJV Bible against the original manuscripts.

    The original KJV Bible of 1611 included the Apocrypha. The KJV Bible we all read and love today was translated in the Year of our Lord 1769. Obviously, we no longer have the Apocrypha in our Bibles. Can you imagine the outrage by the reader of that time? Was the Word of God corrupted when the Apocrypha was removed?

    Letter from the Translators

    I would highly encourage you to read the letter from the translators yourself so you will have a better understanding of the KJV Bible and how it came into existence.

    Original Copy: This is the original 1611 KJV Bible Letter from the Translators.
    Link: http://library.osu.edu/innovation-pr.../item/72#nice1

    Translated Copy: The original version will be very difficult to read as it is in old English. This is a modern version of the text above.
    Link: http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/...troduction.php

    Why We Like the KJV Bible

    We like the KJV Bible as the Strong’s Concordance is based upon it. With both the KJV Bible and the Strong’s Concordance the reader can translate the words back to the original languages themselves. Thus performing our own due diligence as the translators recommended.

    We highly recommend the “Companion Bible” by E.W. Bullinger. This is a KJV Bible, however off to the side are the notes of Mr. Bullinger who was an outstanding scholar of the Word. This Bible also comes with 198 appendixes to aid the reader in the Word of God.

    We also recommend using a good Strong’s Concordance. Many of the newer versions are being altered and no longer reflect the original meaning of the words in the manuscripts.

    We would like to point out to our readers that you can download “E-Sword” (Bible Software) for free which includes a KJV Bible and a Strong’s Concordance.

    Why Not The NIV Bible?

    While the KJV Bible does contain errors as we have documented in several of our studies, it is still the only Bible the serious student should consider. The NIV Bible is riddled with errors and in my opinion, some of them are deliberate. Let’s document that.

    One example brings us to Isaiah 14:12.

    KJV – “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!” – Isaiah 14:12
    Link: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...12&version=KJV

    NIV – “How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!” – Isaiah 14:12
    Link: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...12&version=NIV

    Notice, in the KJV Bible it is very specific with whom we are talking about, “Lucifer”. Satan and Christ are both known as the “Morning Star” so why remove the word “Lucifer” when it makes it abundantly clear who we are discussing?

    Let us look at one more example. This time we are going to look at Ezekiel 13:16-20.

    In the KJV, God says He is against those daughters who are false prophets, who teach the people to fly to save their souls.

    In the NIV, this has been changed to capturing birds. A tremendous difference that alters the meaning of the topic at hand (I encourage the reader to cover the entire chapter to get the context).
    http://worldeventsandthebible.com/20...mes-bible.html
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  3. #2

    The KJB is the Best, But...

    I, too, enjoy using the King James (Authorized Version) Bible, and it has been my main translation since I was a young boy. In fact, several years ago, I would have almost considered someone a heretic if he didn't use the KJV.

    However, as we become older and, hopefully, more mature in our faith, we come to realize that many of the theological positions we used to hold were wrong. The exclusivity of the KJV is one of those positions, for me. Though I believe it to be the premium version for English-speakers, I also recognize that its language can become a stumblingblock for many people. Therefore, other translations have to be used for understanding, memorizing, and citing of God's word. So, I am not a "KJV-Only" person.

    Having said that, I find that the ministry website of the Trinitarian Bible Society has some very good information and insights about why the KJV still ought to be used as the standard version for English-speaking Christians and churches.
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul

  4. #3
    Well. I have my problems with it but it's the closest thing to the Greek texts that we have. Which, themselves, were written in the middle of the 4th century and were revisions of the earlier Hebrew and Aramaic. So the texts today are about 5 or 6 linguistics separated from the originals, too. Right? Anyway. It's important to understand that the term "Authorized" doesn't in any way lend any credence to the notion that the writing is wholly genuine, true, or authentic. This was to some extent an authorization or restructuring at the service of defending the positions of King James in support of his authority. It's downright Shakespearean, though, and certainly a true reflection of the deep capacity of its immediate oversight (which was not King James, btw...he simply wasn't competent to do so). Of course, it was also an effort to move the Protestant Bible away from the Catholic one. The Protestant one is a half dozen or so books shorter.

    I'm only a few books shy of finishing up the Noah Webster KJV. While Noah knew Hebrew and Greek, he still played around with the linguistics to suit his students. He thought it was too vulgar for them and whatnot.

    This is actually a really good topic. I just kind of scratched the surface there.

    But, yeah, it is the closest thing we have to the lost Greeks texts, though. I won't deny that.

    Speaking of which, there's been a heck of a lot of book burnings throughout early history. Alot of the Jewish/Hebrew writings are toast.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 12-04-2016 at 12:36 PM.

  5. #4
    For instance, 1 Peter 2:13. (KJV)...

    13
    Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

    Right?

    It's supposed to be the emperor, as supreme;


    Of course, there's all kinds of that stuff going on in the KJV.

    This kind of stuff throughout many different flavors of the Bible really should be studied. Linguistics are important. Like really important. When you tinker around and restructure language, it changes tenor and context. And often reflects the intent of the "Authorizer", unfortunately. At least to some extent.

    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 12-04-2016 at 12:00 PM.

  6. #5
    From what I've read, not a fan. I was raised with a Catholic bible, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    I, too, enjoy using the King James (Authorized Version) Bible, and it has been my main translation since I was a young boy. In fact, several years ago, I would have almost considered someone a heretic if he didn't use the KJV.

    However, as we become older and, hopefully, more mature in our faith, we come to realize that many of the theological positions we used to hold were wrong. The exclusivity of the KJV is one of those positions, for me. Though I believe it to be the premium version for English-speakers, I also recognize that its language can become a stumblingblock for many people. Therefore, other translations have to be used for understanding, memorizing, and citing of God's word. So, I am not a "KJV-Only" person.

    Having said that, I find that the ministry website of the Trinitarian Bible Society has some very good information and insights about why the KJV still ought to be used as the standard version for English-speaking Christians and churches.
    While doing Bible study I use many tools based upon the KJV. I used the Strong's Exhausted Concordance, The Companion Bible and a 1611 KJV Bible.

    While the English language keeps evolving, I question the translations in the newer Bibles because I know Satan's time on this earth will be a short time, and he needs as much ammunition as possible. Sullying God's word is one way to keep people in a perpetual state of confusion and with that, make many people turn away from God's word and labeling the Bible as nothing more than a fairy tale.

    I believe if you pray to God for guidance you will be directed.

    I have used this as an example as different translations from the English begin to lose it's original meaning:

    2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
    15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    2 Timothy 2:15 (NKJV)
    15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    2 Timothy 2:15 (NASB)
    15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

    2 Timothy 2:15 (NIV)
    15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

    2 Timothy 2:15 (YLT)
    15 be diligent to present thyself approved to God -- a workman irreproachable, rightly dividing the word of the truth;
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  8. #7
    I believe thinking that any written text is "perfect" or the "Words of God" is misguided.

    Inspired? Sure. Perfect? Of course not. The bonafide and authoritative Word of God? Anybody can make that claim.... (and they do).

    That's why I value wisdom more than knowledge, and teachers more than preachers.

    That's why I feel how one behaves is more important than what one believes.
    Last edited by Jamesiv1; 12-04-2016 at 07:23 PM.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    I believe thinking that any written text is "perfect" or the "Words of God" is misguided.

    Inspired? Sure. Perfect? Of course not. The bonafide and authoritative Word of God? Anybody can make that claim.... (and they do).

    That's why I prefer wisdom to knowledge.

    That's why I feel how one behaves is more important than what one believes.
    Yep! +rep
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.



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  11. #9
    I use a Catholic Bible.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    While doing Bible study I use many tools based upon the KJV. I used the Strong's Exhausted Concordance, The Companion Bible and a 1611 KJV Bible.
    I did too,, for many years. Though I also had an 8 translation at the time. and I found it enlightening at times.
    not in adding to or taking away,, but a fuller view.

    I have watched several KJV "only" folk confuse the hell out of it.
    I blame that on Babel. The confusion is still present in translation.

    But I also believe that the Holy Spirit can overcome that easily..
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I did too,, for many years. Though I also had an 8 translation at the time. and I found it enlightening at times.
    not in adding to or taking away,, but a fuller view.

    I have watched several KJV "only" folk confuse the hell out of it.
    I blame that on Babel. The confusion is still present in translation.

    But I also believe that the Holy Spirit can overcome that easily..
    Satan knows the scriptures better than most. He is a scripture lawyer who uses scripture to his advantage and then he twist and manipulates it, just like so many new versions of the Bible and just like he tried to use on Jesus. However, because God is a fair God, he also puts people into a slumber so they can be taught in the Millennium (1,000 years) when Satan is locked up in the bottomless pit and cannot distract and confuse anyone for a thousand years--then he will be let out for a short period of time, and some people will still be deceived by him.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Satan knows the scriptures better than most. He is a scripture lawyer who uses scripture to his advantage and then he twist and manipulates it, just like so many new versions of the Bible and just like he tried to use on Jesus. However, because God is a fair God, he also puts people into a slumber so they can be taught in the Millennium (1,000 years) when Satan is locked up in the bottomless pit and cannot distract and confuse anyone for a thousand years--then he will be let out for a short period of time, and some people will still be deceived by him.
    Books are good ,, but you need to go to the Source to learn..
    I was Baptized by a Calvinist leaning Baptist. I have read and listened to Pentecostals (various flavors)Methodists , Presbyterians and Unitarians.
    I was ordained Baptist,, not that it is in any way relevant,, and I was raised devout Roman Catholic. (alter boy and stuff)

    That is all irrelevant when God speaks.. and when he corrects some misconception..

    done it to me several times.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    done it to me several times.
    for example?
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  16. #14
    The website you are quoting from is a cult website that promulgates the "serpent seed" idea. It's completely refuted by Scripture.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    The website you are quoting from is a cult website that promulgates the "serpent seed" idea. It's completely refuted by Scripture.
    Oh Jesus...here we go...

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Oh Jesus...here we go...
    Well, who here would have known that unless I pointed it out? Who here even knows what the Kenite heresy is? I bet almost no one.



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  20. #17
    I have never heard of it.
    This post represents only the opinions of Christian Liberty and not the rest of the forum. Use discretion when reading

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Liberty View Post
    I have never heard of it.
    Check it out. It is ridiculous.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Well, who here would have known that unless I pointed it out? Who here even knows what the Kenite heresy is? I bet almost no one.
    I thought they were Canaanites...regardless...you are speaking of the following, am I right?

    If so, I am well aware of it. That said, I am now ducking out. I have found that nothing has soured my faith more than the endless intercine squabbling over doctrine from all quarters.

    It makes me question my faith, simply because only a cruel and heartless god would make salvation and faith so utterly confusing, contradictory, heartless and cold.

    Refuting Shepherd's Chapel - Kenites

    http://reformedthinker.blogspot.com/...nites.html?m=1

    One of the defining false doctrines of Shepherd's Chapel is their twist on the Serpent Seed heresy. I have dealt with this topic in other posts in one form or another (See: here, here, and here). My desire for this post, Lord willing, is to expand on what I've already posted and make as concise a refutation as I can.

    If one orders Shepherd's Chapel's free introductory CD called The Mark of Beast they will be introduced to the Kenite doctrine. Shepherd's Chapel also has several study CD's that deal with this doctrine in more depth, see their studies entitled Seed of the Serpent #30461, Genesis, Chapters 1-6 #30146, and Kenites #30436. I will give a brief definition of this doctrine, as they believe it, but feel free to order the material from Shepherd's Chapel to get a fuller explanation from their point of view.

    So what is this doctrine of the Kenite? Simply put, Shepherd's Chapel teaches that Eve had sex with Satan. Eve then conceived and gave birth to Cain. Cain's biological father was Satan, and Cain's offspring are what the Old Testament identifies by the term Kenite. Jesus, in the New Testament, identifies the scribes and Pharisees as these same literal sons of Cain. Kenites are still in the world today claiming to be Jews. Behind the scenes they control the world by, what Shepherd's Chapel calls, the four hidden dynasties (political, religious, economic, and education). Utilizing their control of these four hidden dynasties, Kenites will bring about the one world system. Only churches that teach the true identity of these Kenites hold the Key of David, know the truth, and will not be deceived in the end-times.

    Can any of that be substantiated from the Bible? Shepherd's Chapel does, of course, try to defend these beliefs by selectively utilizing Scripture. I will examine these proofs and show that the doctrine of the Kenite cannot hold up to close scrutiny.

    In reality the whole doctrine hinges on the interpretation of Genesis chapter 3. Does this chapter describe a sexual encounter between Satan and Eve? A straight read-though of this chapter would not lead to that conclusion, thus Shepherd's Chapel is forced to take a completely allegorical interpretation of Genesis 3. We read the following in Genesis 3:3-6:

    but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. (Genesis 3:3-6 ESV)

    Shepherd's Chapel claims that this eating of the fruit is used here as an analogy for sex. They claim this is describing sex between Satan and Eve; I suppose Adam as well sense it states he took the fruit too. There are, however, some serious problems with this interpretation.

    The serpent is using what God said in Genesis chapter 2.

    The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” (Genesis 2:15-17 ESV)
    Now if we are to take that eating of the fruit of the tree is an analogy for sex then we would be forced to conclude that God gave Adam permission to have sex with anything in the garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That is simply not true. We see from this text that God is giving Adam permission to literally eat of any tree in the garden he wishes. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil, however, is forbidden. Sex is not the topic of discussion. Even if one takes the scene in the garden of Eden as allegory we see that sex is not in view here.

    You would also have to identify the tree of the knowledge of good and evil as Satan for Shepherd's Chapel's view to work. The problem is Satan is not identified as the tree but as the serpent, see Revelation 12:9. Even if sex was in view it was not with Satan. There are other problems as well. Take a look at Genesis 3:17.

    And to Adam he said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; (Genesis 3:17 ESV)
    We have read in Genesis 2:16 that God gave permission for Adam to eat of any tree. Now that Adam has sinned in eating the forbidden tree, God curses the ground. Since he ate fruit he wasn't allowed to eat, Adam will have to work hard for his food. We see how the analogy of eating the fruit = sex simply does not work with the point God is making in Genesis 2 and 3.

    The most serious and heretical problem with the view of Genesis 3 describing sex is in Genesis 3:22.

    Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. (Genesis 3:22-23 ESV)
    Arnold Murray, in his study #417 Elect, states that the tree of life is Jesus and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is Satan. Now in verse 22 God states that eating of the tree of life brings eternal life. This verse specifically says "and take also" which means the same action that was done to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil must also be done with the tree of life in order for someone to have eternal life. Are we really to conclude that God is talking about having sex with the tree of life instead of sex with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? That we are to have sex with the tree of life in eternity, see Revelation 2:7? Of course Shepherd's Chapel would deny that, but that is the logical conclusion to their interpretation of Genesis chapter 3.

    It is quite obvious from reading the passages in Genesis 2-3 that sex is not in view. The scene in Genesis 3:3-6 is not describing a sexual encounter with Eve and Satan. The point of the story in Genesis 3 is to show the disobedience of Adam & Eve, the fall of mankind, and the consequence of that disobedience.

    A student of Shepherd's Chapel may raise the objection that Genesis 3:15 does prove the Serpent Seed doctrine.

    I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” (Genesis 3:15 ESV)
    It has been shown by reading the texts that it was not the serpent that Eve took the fruit of but rather the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. So even in their own view of eating the fruit = sex it was not the serpent that Even could have had sex with.

    We see in Genesis 3:15 the enmity between the seed of the serpent and the seed of Eve. It is clearly shown that the serpent has a seed completely separate from Eve, not coming from Eve. Eve has no part in the serpent's seed and does not give birth, in any way, to the serpent's seed.

    We read in Genesis 3:14-19 God hands down his punishments to the Serpent, Eve, and Adam. So literally serpents are cursed after the fall to no longer be as cunning and must go in shame on their bellies eating dust. Serpents and humans will always be at odds with each other with humans having the victory over them.

    Allegorically we read in Genesis 3:15 what is called the Protoevangelium, the first announcement of the Gospel. The serpent would be identified as Satan, see Revelation 12:9 and 20:2. His seed would be that of anything that opposes the Gospel and Christ. The ultimate seed of the Eve would be Christ. The statement "he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel" would be Christ's victory over the Devil and death at the Cross.

    We see this dual-seed and its meaning most clearly presented in 1st John 3:8-10:

    Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
    (1 John 3:8-10 ESV)
    Again sinners are the children of the devil and believers are the children of God. This alludes back to Genesis 3:15 so its meaning is very clear. Genesis 3:15 is not and cannot be talking about literal physical seed of Satan produced by a sexual encounter with Eve. If you read 1st John 3:1-3 you see believers being called the children of God set against the world of unbelievers (children of the devil).

    So who is Cain's father? It is claimed by Shepherd's Chapel to be Satan. We see in Genesis 4:1 who Scripture claims Cain's father to be.

    Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have gotten a man with the help of the LORD.” (Genesis 4:1 ESV)
    The statement "Adam knew Eve" is a figure of speech for sex. We see, very clearly, that Adam consummated his marriage with Eve and she conceived and bore Cain. The statement "and she conceived and bore Cain" coming directly after the statement "Adam knew Eve his wife" proves the conception of Cain is in view. Cain was not conceived at some prior time before this.

    Shepherd's Chapel will claim that Genesis 4:2 shows that Cain and Abel were twins. Abel was born at the same time as Cain with Cain being conceived at a prior point. This was already refuted in Genesis 4:1 but we will take a look at this claim.

    And again, she bore his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a worker of the ground. (Genesis 4:2 ESV)
    Shepherd's Chapel will claim word "again" used in Genesis 4:2 means "to continue to do a thing". In other words Eve continued in labor and bore Able. The Hebrew word here is yacaph and its meaning is to add, increase, do again. Here are a couple more verses, from Genesis, that use yacaph in a similar context:

    And she called his name Joseph, saying, “May the LORD add to me another son!” (Genesis 30:24 ESV)

    Yet again she bore a son, and she called his name Shelah. Judah was in Chezib when she bore him. (Genesis 38:5 ESV)
    The bold words are the Hebrew word yacaph. It does not mean to continue in labor, but is a connector word indicating two separate events. Not the same event.

    Shepherd's Chapel also claims that since Cain isn't listed in the genealogy of Adam in Genesis chapter 5 then he is not Adam's son.

    Cain could be included, in sorts, in Genesis 5:4 when it says of Adam "he had other sons and daughters". More importantly the genealogy of Genesis 5 starts with Seth so it is perfectly normal to leave Abel and Cain out.

    Genealogies in Old Testament times were often deliberately truncated to remove cursed generations or included only those of note. In the case of the Genesis 5 genealogy only those descendants leading to Noah are mentioned because only those are pertinent to the story. That the Bible does not list every single twig on a family tree does not mean that Kenite theory is a valid doctrine.

    Also note in Genesis 5 Abel is not listed either yet Shepherd's Chapel doesn't say he wasn't Adam's son. Cain's genealogy is listed separately because he’s not part of the lineage or Noah, not because he’s the literal biological son of the devil. Like I said before the genealogy starts with Seth and leaves out both Abel and Cain!

    It has been fully shown that Genesis 3 is not talking about sex between Satan and Eve, Genesis 4:1 shows exactly who Cain's father is, and Genesis 3:15 is not talking about a Kenite seed set loose in the world.

    That leaves us with one question. Who are the Kenites? They are mentioned in 10 verses in the Old Testament and never mentioned in the New Testament.

    (Genesis 15:19, Numbers 24:21, Judges 1:16; 4:11; 4:17; 5:24, 1 Samuel 15:6; 27:10; 30:29, 1 Chronicles 2:55)
    Nowhere in the Bible are Kenites identified as descended from Cain. We do, however, see in two of these verses how they can be identified.

    And the descendants of the Kenite, Moses' father-in-law, went up with the people of Judah from the city of palms into the wilderness of Judah, which lies in the Negeb near Arad, and they went and settled with the people. (Judges 1:16 ESV)

    Now Heber the Kenite had separated from the Kenites, the descendants of Hobab the father-in-law of Moses, and had pitched his tent as far away as the oak in Zaanannim, which is near Kedesh. (Judges 4:11 ESV)
    We read from these texts that Kenites are the descendants of Moses' father-in-law, see Exodus 3:1. Kenites are part of the Midianites and came out of Rachab. The name Kenite is probably derived from the name of Kenan the son of Enosh (the grandson of Seth and the great grandson of Adam).

    We have already refuted the possibility that Cain was the biological son of Satan. Now we have shown that there is no warrant at all to identify Kenites as sons of Cain. It is known that Cain fathered children, but they all would have died in the flood of Noah. 2nd Peter 2:5 makes the statement that only eight people survived the flood; only Noah and his family.

    No we will turn our attention to the New Testament. Shepherd's Chapel uses several New Testament texts to try and prove their Kenite doctrine. One of these texts is what is commonly called the Parable of the Tares and is located in Matthew 13:24-30. Shepherd's Chapel claims that the tares, or weeds, in this parable are identified as Kenites. Lucky for us Jesus explains this parable in Matthew 13:36-43.

    Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear. (Matthew 13:36-43 ESV)
    Here Jesus does give us the true interpretation of the dual-seed or, if you will, serpent seed doctrine. The good seed is planted by the Son of Man (Jesus). The good seed are the sons of the kingdom. These sons of the kingdom are believers. They are called the righteous in verse 43. The good seeds are Christians, not the literal seed of Jesus. The field where the seeds are sown is the world. The tares, or weeds, are sown by the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, what we would call judgment day (Rev. 20:11-15). Verse 41 identifies the seed of the devil as "all causes of sin and all law-breakers". So the seed of the devil is unbelievers, not the physical descendants of Cain. This is basically the same thing we see in 1st John 3:1-10.

    Simply put, the Parable of the Tares describes the activity of God’s kingdom in the world. The enemies of the kingdom (weeds) will always coexist with the sons of the kingdom (good seed). It is talking about believers and unbelievers not physical offspring.

    John 8:44 is also a popular text that Shepherd's Chapel uses in an attempt to prove the Kenite theory. Jesus is speaking to the Jews when He says this:

    You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. (John 8:44 ESV)
    Shepherd's Chapel claims this text teaches that these Jews are literally the sons of Satan (via Cain). The contrast is being "of the devil" or being "of God" (see verse 47). Jesus is, however, speaking that the spiritual father of these Jews is the devil, not their physical father. Jesus identifies who their physical father is a few verses up in John 8:37.

    I know that you are offspring of Abraham; yet you seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you. (John 8:37 ESV)
    These are the same Jews Jesus is speaking to in verse 44. Jesus here identifies them as being offspring of Abraham not Cain. So Jesus in John 8:37 identifies who their physical father is and then in John 8:44 identifies their spiritual father. Later in this chapter (John 8:56) Jesus again identifies who these same Jews physical father is.

    Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56 ESV)
    These passages clearly teach that Jesus did not think these Jews were literal, physical sons of Satan. What they do teach, however, is that the works of these Jews proved that they were spiritually the offspring of the devil. Jesus specifically identifies them as Abraham's physical offspring (twice) and not Cain's!

    One New Testament text that Shepherd's Chapel will claim proves a sexual encounter happened between Satan and Eve is 2nd Corinthians 11:3.

    But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. (2 Corinthians 11:3 ESV)
    The Greek word for deceived used here (beguiled in the KJV) is claimed by Shepherd's Chapel to mean sexually seduced. So, to Shepherd's Chapel, this verse says the serpent sexually seduced Eve in the garden of Eden.

    The Greek word used here is exapataō, and simply means to deceive. Interpreting the word exapataō sexually brings up problems in other passages written by Paul. 1st Corinthians 3:18 uses the same word in a similar context.

    Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,”
    (1 Corinthians 3:18-19 ESV)
    The word deceive in this verse is the same Greek word exapataō. You can read by the context that exapataō has no sexual meaning whatsoever. Just try replacing deceive in this verse with sexually seduce and you see how ridiculous the assertion by Shepherd's Chapel is. Paul also uses exapataō in 2nd Thessalonians 2:3.

    Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, (2 Thessalonians 2:3 ESV)
    The word deceive is also the Greek word exapataō and shows that it is not used in a sexual manner. Again try to replace deceive with sexually seduced in this verse, it won't work. In fact the Greek word exapataō is only used 5 times in the New Testament, all by Paul, and it is never used in a sexual context to describe sexual seduction. (See: Rom. 7:11; 16:18, 1 Cor. 3:18, 2 Cor. 11:3, 2 Thes. 2:3)

    These kinds of arguments are common with Shepherd's Chapel. They will take a Greek word and using a Strong's Concordance try and redefine what the word means, twisting it to fit their doctrines. Although Arnold Murray claimed to be a Greek scholar he was not. It has been shown that he did not know how Greek or Hebrew grammar works and deceived his students by twisting the meaning of Scripture. This is the same kind of tactic that Charles Taze Russell, founder of Jehovah's Witnesses, used.

    Another claim one may hear from Shepherd's Chapel is that there are only 2 churches that Christ's finds no fault with and those are the churches that teach the Kenite doctrine. To defend this view Shepherd's Chapel will quote Revelation 2:9 and 3:9. Let's take a look at one of these texts.

    “‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. (Revelation 2:9 ESV)
    Jesus is speaking to the church of Smyrna, see verse 8. Smyrna was known as the crown of Asia where the Greeks held to strong emperor worship. They also had a large Jewish community and both the Romans and the Jews strongly persecuted Christians in this city. Although these Jews were Jews physically they spiritually aligned themselves with the Greek pagans in putting Christians to death. This is similar in the church of Philadelphia (briefly named Caesar’s New City) in Revelation 3:9. The Roman imperial cult and a large synagogue were known to be in Philadelphia around this time. Both Smyrna and Philadelphia were dangerous places for Christians to be.

    Jesus' statement "they say they are Jews and are not" is not Jesus denying their Jewish genealogy but rather their spiritual genealogy. Romans 2:28-29 declares "For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly... But a Jew is one inwardly...". These Jews denied the Messiah and aligned with the emperor worshipers; thus Judaism became a "synagogue of Satan". The New Testament defines God's people in relation to Jesus, not genealogy. The "key of David" mentioned in Revelation 3:9 is simply Jesus' authority to admit to or exclude from God’s kingdom (see Isaiah 22:22, Mark 16:19).

    Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 does not teach or promote the Kenite or serpent seed theory.

    We have shown from Genesis to Revelation that the Kenite or serpent seed theory is not taught in the Bible. Cain was the physical son of Adam not Satan (Genesis 4:1). Yet we are to head the warning of 1st John 3:12 and "not be like Cain, who was of the evil one". Yes Cain's spiritual father is Satan, just like our spiritual father is God. Our righteous seed is from God and unbeliever seed is from the Devil just as 1st John 3:10 states "By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother". The point of all these Scriptures (starting with Genesis 3:15) is to differentiate believers from non-believers, not physical sons of Cain from sons of Adam.

    Shepherd's Chapel does not condone racism and claims not to teach racism. The fact is, however, the Kenite doctrine breeds this us versus them mentality. Saying that the people we identify as Jews are really literal sons of Cain will, inherently, cause racism and hatred. There are many evil people today in power but it is not Kenites behind the scenes controlling the world.

    The Kenite false doctrine of Shepherd's Chapel is dangerous and heretical. It needs to be avoided and Christians warned against it. I pray that if you are stuck in the false teachings of Shepherd's Chapel that you will take serious these warning and that the Lord will open your eyes.

  23. #20

  24. #21
    KJV is one of the least accurate versions. It was translated from Latin to Old English in the middle ages. So it's two translations removed from the original. Not to mention it was very political.


    The NASB and NRSV are the most "accurate" translations.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    KJV is one of the least accurate versions. It was translated from Latin to Old English in the middle ages. So it's two translations removed from the original. Not to mention it was very political.


    The NASB and NRSV are the most "accurate" translations.
    You've got the KJV confused with the Wycliffe New Testament, the King James Bible was written in 1611 (the general consensus of historians is that the Middle Ages ended more than 100 years prior) and is written in Elizabethan English. The Wycliffe New Testament is also not in Old English either, since Old English is almost 100% incomprehensible to anyone speaking either Modern English or even the Elizabethan form found in the KJV. The Wycliffe version is written in a transitional form of Middle English and all existing publications of it online include annotations letting people know what all the dead words used in it actually mean.

    Also, the KJV was not based solely on the Vulgate (I've read the Vulgate, so I know this to be false from first hand experience), it was translated using a multiplicity of sources, including the earliest available Greek and Hebrew texts. Martin Luther was himself fluent in both languages and there was a temporary revival of interest in learning both languages for purposes of assuring the accuracy of the bibles that were being translated properly, and a similar amount of scholarship existed among the members of the church clergy whom led the Reformed movement.

    P.S. - The NASB and NRSV are horrible translations that are peddled publicly for the purposes of making certain publishers wealthy. You'll note that at no point in history was the KJV ever published for private profit, which should tell you something about the motives behind both the translators and the publishers.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Well, who here would have known that unless I pointed it out? Who here even knows what the Kenite heresy is? I bet almost no one.
    I know who the Kenites are, they are children of Cain.
    "FOUR HIDDEN DYNASTIES OF THE END TIMES"



    This Bible Study is provided by theseason.org
    with permission from it's author, R. Christopherson

    Page 1





    These four hidden dynasties are the negative side of God’s plan and are activated by the hand of Almighty God in these end times because mankind has turned away from Him and His living word. They have chosen the path of evil in the sight of God, and they will reap what they have sown. We were once one nation under God but now we are being stripped because GAT and NFTA were passed into law. This marked the beginning of the inward decay of the United States . Many are wondering how this all happened and who is responsible, the Kenites are the ones responsible and as we study we will learn all about them.

    The Kenite’s are recorded in the King James Bible. We will point out not only who they are, but when they came into being. How they work, and why they are allowed to do what they are doing in these end times. This material is for those who are searching for truth therefore we will attempt to clarify any misunderstanding people may have in regard to what the Original Massoretic Text has reviled.

    Our news Medias are telling us that our American factories have moved over seas to use slave labor in foreign countries. Our press is used to promote the One World Order, our Churches are members of the One World Churches; our Political System is changing laws daily to provide the four hidden dynasties with their power to take control. These new Kenite Laws are designed to destroy our Constitution and the foundation of our nation that was founded upon the Laws of God. We’re rapidly merging into the Laws of the Talmud.

    In the book of Ezra, these Kenites are called Nethinims, or strangers given to service, but why would they want to take over the priesthood when our Heavenly Father has assigned the sons of Levi to this task? The four families of the Levites were the only ones that were assigned to the duties of the Tabernacle by Moses since their migration and wanderings in the wilderness. Some Four hundred and fifty years later David assigned them to the duties of the Temple . However we see from scripture that these Kenites are not related to Abraham or any of the sons of Israel . So where did they come from? Who are they? Why would they want to have power over God’s people? They have always wanted to have complete control over people.

    Those things that happened so many years ago set the course of what is taking place in this final generation, we are going to compare them with modern day activities. The Smith Dictionary identifies these people as originating from their father Cain, the first of the son of Eve from the Garden of Eden, so let’s go to Genesis in the Bible and find out what happened there. This takes us to Genesis 3 where Satan is in the role of serpent, the deceiver that came to tempt the woman Eve. Remember that in this chapter "trees" represent men. Man is forbidden to "touch", and this touch, is called the "serpent", or the deceiver, which is known as Satan. Satan has many names by the roles that he has played. In the first earth age that once was, Satan was called "the dragon", yet in this second earth age Satan is also called "the Devil", and "son of perdition", because God has placed the death sentence on him following the great white throne Judgment.

    Very shortly Satan will play the role of the Antichrist, or better called, "the instead of Christ", for he will come to earth at the fifth trump with his fallen angels to rule the world in his role as he claims to be God, and the people will believe him. Genesis 3:1 " Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And He said unto the Woman. "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden"?" So we see that Satan will play two roles here in the Garden of Eden, that of the "serpent" and that of the "tree of good and evil".

    Satan is "more subtil", and he is wiser in the ways of the world. The word "beast" as used here does not refer only to the animal world, but all living beings, including man. When Satan asked the question to Eve, "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" He was not asking the question for the sake of inquiring, but to draw her attention to the matter. This was much like the method that a slick salesman uses in breaking down the resistance of his client. He uses questions to force the person to agree with him. So, within this question is the key to overcoming the mental barrier, of allowing half truths to be accepted by twisting the mind of the person to accept a lie as being the truth.

    So Satan's first utterance in Scripture is a lie, and it shows from the start his opposition to God's Word. For it is God's Word in the first earth age that sentenced Satan to death, and that is where is name "son of perdition" comes from. Genesis 3:2, 3 "And the woman said unto the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:" [2] "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, `Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die'." [3]

    Satan the serpent started misquoting when he changed the words of God from “the trees of the garden" to "the tree of good and evil". Now Eve is assuming that what Satan said is what God said. Are we talking about apple trees here, or fig trees? No, we are talking about people for Satan is a man, created just as you and I. Then Satan continues misquoting in taking God's warning "lest ye die" and changed it to, "Thou shalt not surely die", Trees are symbolic of people; and when we look up "trees" in “The Strong's Concordance’s”, Hebrew Dictionary, it reads; "ets, ates; from # 6095, it’s just a common tree, but of the type # 6095."

    However the trees of the Garden of Eden is # 6095. "Atsah, aw-tsaw; prime root. to fasten (or make firm), i.e.to close (the eyes shut), reference # 6096." So in # 6096 we read; "Atseh, aw-tseh; from # 6095; the spine, (as giving firmness to the body):-a backbone." Friend the tree we’re talking about here doesn't produce apples it produces children. So what Satan is trying to do here is seduce Eve. What runs through the backbone of our body? It is our central nervous system that controls the opening or closing of our eyes. Our brain controls every movement that we make as it continues it's process of sending messages through out your body.

    So we see that the warning by God to Adam and Eve was specifically to stay away from this man called Satan, known as the "serpent", and the "tree of good and evil". The fruit of that particular tree of Satan was not to be taken, for that fruit would be the same as sexual relations of any man and woman, and it would bear children. So before we go on, let’s see what Paul had to say about this relationship between Satan and Eve.

    II Corinthians 11:1 "Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ." The Apostle Paul is telling the brethren and sisters at the Corinthian Church , "I want to tell you really what is on my heart."

    II Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ." To "Espoused" means that you have become engaged to marry one man. So what is the subject and what is the object here? The subject here is "to present you as a chaste virgin"; while the object then is "the loosing of ones virginity." That can't be too hard to understand.

    II Corinthians 11:3 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." Paul is telling them that you men of the church like to turn away from the simplicity of reading God's Word, just like Eve lost focus on the simple instruction that God gave Eve.

    The word "Beguiled" in Strong's Greek dictionary is # 1818; "exapatao, ex-ap-at-ah-o; from 1537 and 538, to seduce wholly, to beguile, deceive." "# 1537, "ex" show point of origin". So now let’s go back to the third verse. The verse has only one meaning, and that is not to be wholly seduced, or to lose our virginity as Eve did. This verse would read; "I am afraid your going to lose your virginity as Eve did, who was wholly seduced by the serpent [Satan]." Paul would say later in verse 14, "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed [fashioned himself] into an angel of light." Our Lord Jesus Christ is the angel of light, however very shortly in our generation; Satan will present himself, and appear just like Jesus would appear in the eyes of most Christians. This word "transformed" in the Greek text manuscripts is "disguised" as an angel of light. II Corinthians 11:4 "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

    In other words if some one preaches about another Jesus; another message, or story of some apples on a tree, or any other Statistic lie or distortion, make sure to mark that person well, because he is not of God. Paul is giving this warning to our generation, as well as those in the past, for "Satan will come disguised as a minister of God" in our day.

    In II Corinthians 11:15; "Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." Paul is telling you and I who are living in this final generation, that if Satan is coming disguised as Jesus, then expect his ministers and those coming with him to be disguised also just as Satan is. Friend, if you do not know what happened in the Garden of Eden you will be fooled at the coming of Satan. For Satan's kids, the Kenites, the offspring of Satan through Cain, came from that sexual relations between Eve and Satan. These Kenites are paving the road for you to accept Satan upon his arrival to earth. They control the global society today, and all the nations of the earth now go to them for their instructions. This is what this study is all about.

    Remember "touch", means to "lie down with a woman" in sexual relations. Tell it like it is.

    Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that is was pleasant to the eyes, and the tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her and he did eat."

    Are they eating apples here? No! Don't be stupid; Satan was the most beautiful created man of God's creation. Ezekiel 24 tells us that Satan was the most beautiful tree to be desired. Both Adam and Satan took part in that sex orgy, and from those two sexual unions with Eve came two children, Cain and Abel.

    Genesis 3:7 "And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."

    Once their eyes were opened to wickedness, they became closed to the truth. Jesus warned us in all three of the gospels to learn the parable of the fig tree". That warning was so that you and I living in this final generation would not be deceived by the actions and words of not only Satan, but of these Kenites. The Kenites like to tell fairy tales and stories about fly-away doctrines, about apple trees, and aprons to cover your mouths after eating of apples. Once you get into your mind that the sin in the Garden of Eden was the sex act, and that aprons were made to cover over private parts, then every thing else should fall in place. Kenites are the sons of Cain, the offspring that came through the union between Satan and Eve. That is the big lie and a secret that the Kenite Jew would like to keep us from knowing but we must keep in our mind as we study God’s word.

    When we talk about a Jew, are we talking about Brother Judah or Benjamin here? No, we are talking about those men who came to Judah many centuries ago, and assumed the role and duties of the Levitical priesthood. The Levites departed their posts, and these Kenites substituted their laws and traditions for the The Commandments of God, the teachings of Moses and the prophets. These are the same people that faced John the Baptist in Matthew 3:7-10, and he called those Pharisees and Sadducees for what they were, "O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come."

    When Jesus faced these Pharisees and Sadducees in John 8:31-44, He could read their minds and know their thoughts. They were telling Jesus that they were of Abraham's seed; yet as they stood there Jesus knew that they were lying to Him by their thoughts. They were plotting to kill Jesus as they stood there and tried to deceive our Lord Jesus Christ.

    John 8:39-41 "They answered and said unto Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus saith unto them, "If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." [39] "But now ye seek to kill Me, a Man That hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham." [40] "Ye do the deeds of your father", Then said they to Him, "We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God." [41]

    Jesus sat there arguing with these Kenite Pharisees and scribes over their parentage, then Jesus came out and spelled out exactly who they were in John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

    Jesus is telling these Jews standing before Him, that "ye" or your father the devil, for the devil is Satan. Every lie and deceit that Satan will do, these men standing there were doing the same. In fact they were plotting the death of Jesus then. However it was Cain that was the first "murderer in the beginning" when he murdered Abel his brother, and then lied about it. One thing about Satan and all his family, they are liars and deceivers. It doesn't matter which one you are talking about Cain or Satan, they are both liars, but Satan is the "father of lies".

    The first entry into the land of Judah , the Kenites were to assist in the building of the Temple of Solomon 's day. They were the skilled craftsman and the suppliers of the metals, wood and stone that would go into the Temple of God . They came by the thousands, and just never left when the job was over. The Kenites infiltrated into the ranks and neighborhoods of Judah and Benjamin a thousand years before our Lord's birth. All the time these people knew who they were, and they still do. They will try to cover up the truth as long as possible, until the day that the way has been prepared for their father Satan's return. Do I say that we should hate them for this? No, we know what their end will be, we also know that before that end comes, our Heavenly Father will use them to test His true children.

    When Jesus stated in Matthew 13 the parables of the wheat and tares, the parable was confusing to the Disciples, so Jesus took His disciples aside and explained in detail these parables. So let’s start with Matthew 13:36 "Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and His disciples with Him, saying, "Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field."

    Jesus is now telling His disciples the exact meaning of that parable.

    Matthew 13:37, 38 "He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;" [37] "The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;" [38]

    This can't be too hard to understand, for Jesus is telling His disciples that the one that sows the good seed is Himself, and that the good seed are those children or people that follow him, who came under the blood of Christ in repentance, for that is the only way to enter the Kingdom of Heaven . The "field" in this parable means this world age of flesh men and women. The only way to enter into this earth age and become part of the Kingdom of Heaven , is through the birthing process. In this earth age, there are also "tares' that are sown, and we know that they are the Kenites who came through the womb of Eve, by the "wicked one" who is Satan, he will come with his supernatural powers and is not of this world of flesh man.

    In other words, Satan had kids, and they are the tares in this parable. Yet we are not to condemn these people, just leave them alone. Many of these Kenites will marry into Christian families, and others through adoptions or other means will be saved. Once a Kenite is saved, he or she is no longer a Kenite son or daughter of Satan, but a child of God. It is not for you and I to read that Kenites mind, for only God will know who it is to be saved and who will be destroyed.

    Matthew 13:39 , 40 "The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels." [39] "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world [age]." [40]
    In the rest of this study remember that God has stated His purpose for these Kenites, and our entire Bible is full of prophecies dealing with these Kenites.
    http://www.theseason.org/topical/4_hidden_dynasties.htm
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  27. #24
    Obviously, we no longer have the Apocrypha in our Bibles.
    They're in my Bible. I have a proper, Orthodox Bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Well, who here would have known that unless I pointed it out? Who here even knows what the Kenite heresy is? I bet almost no one.
    Anyone who has ever dropped by the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry (aka CARM) would know about this heresy. Frankly I'm surprised that Christian Liberty has never encountered anything regarding it considering it was dealt with by the most visible church bodies within modern Evangelical circles going back 15 years.

    https://carm.org/serpent-seed-and-kenites

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by hells_unicorn View Post
    You've got the KJV confused with the Wycliffe New Testament, the King James Bible was written in 1611
    Modern translators know more about how to properly translate than those in 1611. The science is a lot more developed.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    for example?
    Zionism,, was once an "Israel First" sort

    On Free Will,, because I asked him a specific question. He showed me.

    on Authority and governments.,, sundry small and large stumbling blocks

    Spiritual Growth is ongoing. and I am in an interesting place. growing.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Modern translators know more about how to properly translate than those in 1611. The science is a lot more developed.
    This is a non-answer, and a blanket claim with no connection to reality. According to what I've seen, the current chaos in modern theology and the steep rise in skepticism in America is, at bare minimum, related to how translators have "evolved" their craft. The earlier you go with this stuff, the closer it is to the original, and the less likelihood of archaic landfill fodder like the Dead Sea Scrolls further distorting the fragile truth.

    I prefer the King James Version in the context of worship, but during my pastoral reading sessions and studies, I refer to a number of various English translations and others from the Reformation period and before. Sadly I'm not fluent in Greek or Hebrew, but my pastor is so I can study with his oversight if and when I wish to tackle the oldest versions.

    Besides, I have a standing rule. If I can get sued for quoting a version of the bible, it's not worth my time or anyone else's. If the truth is for sale, we all may as well bow to Rome and get it over with.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by hells_unicorn View Post




    , we all may as well bow to Rome and get it over with.
    I have no inclination to bow,,

    but I do recognize the reality of it's existence,, so to speak.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by hells_unicorn View Post
    The earlier you go with this stuff, the closer it is to the original, and the less likelihood of archaic landfill fodder like the Dead Sea Scrolls further distorting the fragile truth.
    Then you're obviously not looking for accuracy
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

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