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Thread: Why not give each Rep. multiple votes?

  1. #1

    Question Why not give each Rep. multiple votes?

    It is hard enough to find a few good men. Why do we make ourselves look for hundreds?
    We should allow ourselves to give one candidate more than one Seat/Vote.



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  3. #2
    This is also why term limits are a bad idea.

  4. #3
    Sure, let's give Kentucky's 4th, and Michigan's 3rd all the voting power. Of course, we can't accomplish that.
    Stop believing stupid things

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    Sure, let's give Kentucky's 4th, and Michigan's 3rd all the voting power. Of course, we can't accomplish that.
    This thread is about political theory. And of course would require Constitutional amendments. But this idea would be good for political minorities, just think how many votes Dr. Ron would have had if every supporter in Texas or better yet the country could have voted for him in the house and he received a proportionate number of votes.

    Under the current system the Republicrats are the majority in every district and we are lucky to get a handful of Reps, and most of us are unrepresented.
    Ideology is far more important and connecting than Cartography.

  6. #5
    If we double the votes each rep gets, does that change things from them having only one?
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    I didn't actually read any of the thread. I now mostly just come here to mess with Zip.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    If we double the votes each rep gets, does that change things from them having only one?
    You missed the concept entirely.
    The Idea is to let them win as many seats/votes as their vote share equals proportionally. And to open up the race to be state or even nation wide.

  8. #7
    So if I get one third of the votes I get a third of a seat and a third of a vote? Or are you thinking more like European style elections- you vote for a party and if the party gets one third of the total popular votes they get one third of the seats in Congress? Or one candidate allowed to run in multiple districts?
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    I didn't actually read any of the thread. I now mostly just come here to mess with Zip.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So if I get one third of the votes I get a third of a seat and a third of a vote? Or are you thinking more like European style elections- you vote for a party and if the party gets one third of the total popular votes they get one third of the seats in Congress? Or one candidate running in multiple districts?
    If you get one third of the votes, you get one third of the votes in the house/state delegation to the house. Similar but different to the Euro system which still requires one delegate for each vote, and thus hundreds of potentially corrupt office seekers. One candidate running in multiple districts would be another alternative, though not quite as good.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 05-15-2018 at 05:16 PM.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If you get one third of the votes, you get one third of the votes in the house/state delegation to the house. Similar but different to the Euro system which still requires one delegate for each vote, and thus hundreds of potentially corrupt office seekers. One candidate in running multiple districts would be another alternative, though not quite as good.
    If I get one third of which votes do I get one third of the votes in the House delegation? One third of the votes in my district? That does not work- otherwise three candidates in three different districts could have one third each in their districts and combined get all of the voted in the delegation- even though there were winners in other districts getting votes as well. Or are we voting nationally now?

    Or do we add up all of the votes cast in all of the districts and allocate based on percent of that total vote? That would give more votes to members in larger districts who could get more total votes even if they got a lower percent in their own district.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    I didn't actually read any of the thread. I now mostly just come here to mess with Zip.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    If I get one third of which votes do I get one third of the votes in the House delegation? One third of the votes in my district? That does not work- otherwise three candidates in three different districts could have one third each in their districts and combined get all of the voted in the delegation- even though there were winners in other districts getting votes as well. Or are we voting nationally now?

    Or do we add up all of the votes cast in all of the districts and allocate based on percent of that total vote? That would give more votes to members in larger districts who could get more total votes even if they got a lower percent in their own district.
    The districts would be eliminated, the election/s would be state wide or nation wide.

  13. #11
    That would shift powers from rural areas with lower populations to larger cities then. If that applied to the 2016 election, the House and Senate would be blue by a small margin.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    I didn't actually read any of the thread. I now mostly just come here to mess with Zip.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    That would shift powers from rural areas with lower populations to larger cities then. If that applied to the 2016 election, the House and Senate would be blue by a small margin.
    Would they? what about all the urban Rs that get buried in their current districts? How many Ds would have voted for Dr. Ron? What would be the effect of eliminating Gerrymandering?

  15. #13
    Gerrymandering is a big problem.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    I didn't actually read any of the thread. I now mostly just come here to mess with Zip.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  16. #14
    I think Trump should get multiple votes,

    he should have at least 5 votes in the senate, and maybe 30-40 votes in the house. And 2 votes in the supreme court.

    But I think there would need to be a constitutional amendment for that. Though possibly an executive order would suffice
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I think Trump should get multiple votes,

    he should have at least 5 votes in the senate, and maybe 30-40 votes in the house. And 2 votes in the supreme court.

    But I think there would need to be a constitutional amendment for that. Though possibly an executive order would suffice
    I think I should get two votes on the supreme court . Most of them have trouble with reading comprehension .
    Do something Danke

  18. #16
    bump.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    It's not clear to me why @Swordsmyth thinks this would help libertarian-ish candidates.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    It's not clear to me why @Swordsmyth thinks this would help libertarian-ish candidates.
    If Dr. Ron could have gotten the votes of his supporters statewide or nationwide how many votes would he have had in the house?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If Dr. Ron could have gotten the votes of his supporters statewide or nationwide how many votes would he have had in the house?
    He would have gotten more votes, but so would his opponents, right?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    He would have gotten more votes, but so would his opponents, right?
    His opponents (almost the entire House) would have had less votes, some of the individuals may have had more but the group would have had less.
    We can hardly find a few good men like Dr. Ron while the opposition has an unlimited bench, if we are able to delegate all our votes to the few we find it helps us while doing nothing for the enemy that never has any trouble finding as many sock puppets as it needs to fill any number of seats.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    His opponents (almost the entire House) would have had less votes, some of the individuals may have had more but the group would have had less.
    Why...?

    Maybe I'm not understanding your proposal.

    Walk me through an example of how this works, mathematically, with Ron being 1 of several candidates in a state-wide House race.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Why...?

    Maybe I'm not understanding your proposal.

    Walk me through an example of how this works, mathematically, with Ron being 1 of several candidates in a state-wide House race.
    As the system stands Ron only got 1 vote in the house, if his supporters in the rest of Texas gave him enough votes to earn a second seat he would have had 2 and someone else who would have gotten that seat would have 0 instead, that would be 1 more for Ron and 1 less for his enemies.
    Some of the other House members might also get more than 1 seat but those extra seats would be taken from other enemies of Ron so the opposition wouldn't have gained any votes and would have lost 1 while he gained 1.
    I would hope that he would have gained more than 1 but I don't know the numbers so I am being conservative in this example, if the vote was changed to be nationwide he would most certainly have gotten quite a few more seats.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    As the system stands Ron only got 1 vote in the house, if his supporters in the rest of Texas gave him enough votes to earn a second seat he would have had 2 and someone else who would have gotten that seat would have 0 instead, that would be 1 more for Ron and 1 less for his enemies.
    Some of the other House members might also get more than 1 seat but those extra seats would be taken from other enemies of Ron so the opposition wouldn't have gained any votes and would have lost 1 while he gained 1.
    I would hope that he would have gained more than 1 but I don't know the numbers so I am being conservative in this example, if the vote was changed to be nationwide he would most certainly have gotten quite a few more seats.
    How exactly is it determined how many seats a person gets?

    Or who the candidates are/how many candidates there are in the first place?

    ...need more details.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    How exactly is it determined how many seats a person gets?

    Or who the candidates are/how many candidates there are in the first place?

    ...need more details.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If you get one third of the votes, you get one third of the votes in the house/state delegation to the house. Similar but different to the Euro system which still requires one delegate for each vote, and thus hundreds of potentially corrupt office seekers. One candidate running in multiple districts would be another alternative, though not quite as good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The districts would be eliminated, the election/s would be state wide or nation wide.

    ...
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 05-15-2018 at 05:16 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    ...
    I'll try again.

    Would there be primaries and, if so, would not even get on the general election ballot?

    Was he ever the most popular Republican in Texas?

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I'll try again.

    Would there be primaries and, if so, would not even get on the general election ballot?
    Primaries don't work well with this system unless you go with the variant that keeps the districts and allows candidates to run in as many as they like.
    Getting rid of primaries would be another good effect of this system since it would reduce the power of the parties.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Primaries don't work well with this system unless you go with the variant that keeps the districts and allows candidates to run in as many as they like.
    Getting rid of primaries would be another good effect of this system since it would reduce the power of the parties.
    Parties aren't going to just vanish, and they have to choose their candidates somehow.

    If not primaries, caucuses, appointment by the national committee?

    Either way, I don't see Ron getting on the ballot as a Republican in this set-up.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Parties aren't going to just vanish, and they have to choose their candidates somehow.

    If not primaries, caucuses, appointment by the national committee?
    How would they choose how many to run? In this system one candidate could potentially get every vote available.
    If they only chose one or a few it would be much easier for a 3rd party or an independent to get votes, if they chose many it wouldn't change Ron's chances of being one of them much.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Either way, I don't see Ron getting on the ballot at a Republican in this set-up.
    He would get on the ballot without doing so as a Republican and that would be a good thing, we would likely have some Reps form multiple 3rd parties in the House and the "major" parties grip on power would be much weaker.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #29
    @Swordsmyth

    Suppose that, at the time of Ron's last House race, 5% of Texans statewide would have voted for him if they could have.

    Under the system then existing, he beat his district opponent and got 1 vote.

    Under your system, as I understand it, he'd have gotten 5% of 32 Texas seats, or 1.6 seats (assuming fractions are allowed).

    Right?

    If so, that may well work for a Ron in one situation, but it could also go the other way for another Ron in another situation.

    It doesn't help libertarians generally.

    E.G.

    If Ron would have only garnered the votes of 3% of Texans, he would have only gotten 0.96 seats, less than he actually got.

    If it were another state, with only 15 seats, and Ron would have gotten the support of 5% of statewide voters, he'd have only gotten 0.75.

    If there's minimum threshold (pretty much has to be, unless the House is going to have thousands/millions of members), he may have gotten 0.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    @Swordsmyth

    Suppose that, at the time of Ron's last House race, 5% of Texans statewide would have voted for him if they could have.

    Under the system then existing, he beat his district opponent and got 1 vote.

    Under your system, as I understand it, he'd have gotten 5% of 32 Texas seats, or 1.6 seats (assuming fractions are allowed).

    Right?
    Fractions wouldn't be allowed except if there were spare seats that nobody won completely, then those seats would be given to those with the largest remaining fractions.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If so, that may well work for a Ron in one situation, but it could also go the other way for another Ron in another situation.

    It doesn't help libertarians generally.

    E.G.

    If Ron would have only garnered the votes of 3% of Texans, he would have only gotten 0.96 seats, less than he actually got.
    If he only got 3% of the votes he wouldn't have won the seat he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If it were another state, with only 15 seats, and Ron would have gotten the support of 5% of statewide voters, he'd have only gotten 0.75.

    If there's minimum threshold (pretty much has to be, unless the House is going to have thousands/millions of members), he may have gotten 0.
    This is why I would prefer the system to be nationwide instead of statewide, in a House with about 400 seats it would only take about 1/4% to get a seat.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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