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Thread: Justin Raimondo: What Trump Means

  1. #1

    Justin Raimondo: What Trump Means

    Published on Nov 25, 2016
    Justin Raimondo, editorial director of Antiwar.com, joins Jeff for a great discussion of what Trump's election really means for libertarians. Does 2016 mark the end of globalism's inevitability, or are Brexit and Trump mere speed bumps for progressive elites? Does Trump represent a real threat to the War Party, or will he succumb to neoconservative control over foreign policy? What are the best-case and worst-case scenarios for libertarians in the first year of a Trump administration, and will his cabinet picks contain any happy surprises?

    Nobody is better suited to untangle the Trump uprising than the no-holds barred Mr. Raimondo. Stay tuned.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVqhe_KWBaY

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.



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  3. #2
    Thnx 4 this and Hppy Thnxgvng to Mr. Animal.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    Thnx 4 this and Hppy Thnxgvng to Mr. Animal.
    You're welcome. I thought it was interesting. I'm not in complete agreement but I like to listen to the Mises Weekends shows and thought some here would enjoy it.

    Poor Mr Animal couldn't even button his fat pants today. He sat there complaining about it whilst eating the last of the pecan pie and whipped cream.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  5. #4
    Much like many on this forum, this video is entirely based upon reading extremely favorable motives into everything that Trump has done. I have a hard time swallowing the idea that he represents the return of the "old right" as someone said in the audio. Still not grasping what about him is conservative whatsoever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Still not grasping what about him is conservative whatsoever.
    I think it's safe to say you yourself do not have a conservative temperament, TheCount. Yes? So you are not particularly well-suited to grasp it.

    For me, if I were a conservative, it would be about winning. Conservatives have been Total Losers for half a century, probably a century, and maybe, actually, since Jacksonian times. Total. Complete. Utter. Losers. Nothing and I mean nothing that conservatives would have wanted and had in their agenda has been accomplished at the national level. So really, does it matter if Trump is a "conservative"? No. What matters is can he actually win? Can he succeed in getting through some part of the conservative agenda, unlike all the sad, total losers before him? That is the bet conservatives made with him, in my opinion, even though they didn't consciously put it that way. Long-shot though it might be.

    Oh, and he's going to bring back "Merry Christmas"! Remember? You probably don't -- just another ridiculous thing Trump said, right?, but this is the kind of stuff conservatives really care about. And he gave them what they wanted, about a hundred times over.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    I think it's safe to say you yourself do not have a conservative temperament, TheCount. Yes? So you are not particularly well-suited to grasp it.


    If Trump is the judge of whether or not someone is conservative, then I guess I'm not.

    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    For me, if I were a conservative, it would be about winning. Conservatives have been Total Losers for half a century, probably a century, and maybe, actually, since Jacksonian times. Total. Complete. Utter. Losers.
    "Winning" by hanging a conservative label on a person who is not a conservative is not winning at all. All that has been accomplished is to convince a new generation that conservatism represents things that they do not agree with while appeasing people who will be dead three elections from now.


    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Nothing and I mean nothing that conservatives would have wanted and had in their agenda has been accomplished at the national level. So really, does it matter if Trump is a "conservative"? No. What matters is can he actually win? Can he succeed in getting through some part of the conservative agenda, unlike all the sad, total losers before him?
    Which part of the conservative agenda? What part of his agenda, exactly, is conservative?


    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Oh, and he's going to bring back "Merry Christmas"! Remember? You probably don't -- just another ridiculous thing Trump said, right?, but this is the kind of stuff conservatives really care about.
    Anyone who is emotionally involved in the exact nature of holiday greeting they receive from an employee at a chain store is a complete and utter moron.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post


    If Trump is the judge of whether or not someone is conservative, then I guess I'm not.
    He is not! Indeed, my guess would be he is not particularly conservative politically, although personally he does have "conservative" (probably better and less ambiguously called "right-pattern") temperament elements he has inherited or had injected into him. Namely: he doesn't smoke, drink, or do drugs, and to all accounts never has, not even once. Conservative. He was brought up in military boarding school. Conservative.

    So temperamentally he has some right, but probably just as much left.


    "Winning" by hanging a conservative label on a person who is not a conservative is not winning at all.
    Again, you yourself do not care about conservativism and are not conservative (correct me if I'm wrong!), so this is a bit of crocodile tears, yes? I mean, who cares if conservatives win? Not you!

    But they do care, you'd better believe. And, again, my assessment is that they were and are perfectly aware of all Mr. Trump's flaws, and nevertheless made the bet that he could do something for them. They know he's not really one of them. But they already elected one of their own, a bonafide Evangelical, G.W. Bush, and what did they get from that? Nothing, except embarrassment. Been there, done that.

    They've been losing for their whole lives. They have lost every battle, on every front. Every major institution in this country despises conservatives. They are foreigners in their own country. At this point, it really doesn't matter to them if Trump is a conservative or not. What matters to conservatives, again this is just my opinion, I could be wrong, but I think what matters to them is actually getting through some conservative victories. The deep, innermost thoughts of the President don't really matter to anyone except him, and perhaps his loved ones. Just get the job done. That's the attitude.

    Pretty practical, actually.

    Which part of the conservative agenda? What part of his agenda, exactly, is conservative?
    Here's three:

    • Paying off the national debt by selling off federal assets
    • Putting a freeze on all regulations and starting a process of repealing existing ones.
    • Nominating conservative justices to the Supreme Court of Last Resort.

    Anyone who is emotionally involved in the exact nature of holiday greeting they receive from an employee at a chain store is a complete and utter moron.
    People of left temperament do generally feel that people of right temperament are utter morons. You have total contempt for them. Natural! But let me assure you that these people do exist, and while their average IQ is indeed lower than the average IQ of the left (the difference is slight), they are the ones who grow your food, deliver your insulin, and maintain your electrical system. You need them.

  9. #8
    Also, as a note, I have not listened to the video in the OP and do not know if I agree with it.

    I am just responding in the spirit of helpfulness to TheCount's confusion and query -- whether sincere or not -- as to why conservatives back Donald Trump, when he cannot understand nor fathom any possible reason for such backing. I think I have at least some small understanding of that reason that I can offer.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Thanks. Interesting interview. Raimondo definitely doesn't hold back. They break down the liberty movement in a couple of ways. Cato libertarians vs. Ron Paul libertarians. Globalist libertarians vs. American libertarians. Same old battles that have been going on for a long time.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    (probably better and less ambiguously called "right-pattern") temperament elements he has inherited or had injected into him. Namely: he doesn't smoke, drink, or do drugs, and to all accounts never has, not even once. Conservative. He was brought up in military boarding school. Conservative.
    These are conservative in the same way that Christmas trees are Christian.


    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    So temperamentally he has some right, but probably just as much left.
    Rather than examining his actual policy suggestions, we're going to guess at how conservative he is based on unrelated personality traits? I can see the rest of this discussion going downhill already.


    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Again, you yourself do not care about conservativism and are not conservative (correct me if I'm wrong!)
    You're wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    They've been losing for their whole lives. They have lost every battle, on every front.
    Part of which being that they, like you, are more invested in the trappings of conservatism rather than conservatism itself, so that when they think they've finally elected someone who is conservative, they soon realize that this is not the case. They are simply repeating the pattern which has ensured that they lose even when they "win." This is nothing new.


    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    • Paying off the national debt by selling off federal assets
    Neither will happen. This is a man who has very flatly stated his intention to borrow whatever sum of money is necessary to fund the programs which he thinks are necessary, and has gone so far as to say that it is to the country's advantage to take on as much debt as possible while the interest rates are low.

    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    • Putting a freeze on all regulations and starting a process of repealing existing ones.
    This is possible, though we will need to see the nature of the individuals he appoints to heads of the offending agencies. If they are lobbyists, then we will simply trade one set of regulations for another.

    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    • Nominating conservative justices to the Supreme Court of Last Resort.
    Will his 'conservative' judges be as conservative as the rest of his appointments? Not looking great so far.


    I notice that the points you're suggesting are his conservative high points are not anywhere near the top of his administration's priorities...
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Still not grasping what about him is conservative whatsoever.
    For the conservative base, these days it doesn't get any more "conservative" than this:







    Thanks to his crafty messaging, he was perceived as better defender of "conservative values" than all the alternatives, rest is history.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    You're wrong.
    So you are a conservative? You consider yourself a conservative?

    Well then I stand corrected! I have a certain general impression of you from our interactions over the years, and it was not conservative! Mostly it was as a heckler / jokester, of course, but I thought that it seemed you gave our right-leaning eccentricities more jeering than our left-leaning ones. My mistake, and thank you for correcting me!

    So, just plain conservative, or libertarian-conservative?




    Part of which being that they, like you, are more invested in the trappings of conservatism rather than conservatism itself,
    I think you have fundamentally misunderstood my posts. I Do not think that President Trump is going to somehow single-handedly bring back "Merry Christmas"! How -- executive order? I do not expect him to pay off the national debt. I do not really expect anything, necessarily! Please, please try to keep in mind that I don't control any of this. I had nothing to do with it! Don't blame the Helmuth!

    I try to focus on things that I *can* control.

    My post, as I said, was just by way of helpful explanation of my theory of how Trump won over (most) conservatives. But you need no such explanation, being a staunch conservative yourself. So, again, my misunderstanding!

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    • Paying off the national debt by selling off federal assets
    • Putting a freeze on all regulations and starting a process of repealing existing ones.

    I'm hoping these are not part of the agenda that passes as it appears to be a way for the elites to rape and pillage the country.

    Paying off the debt by selling assets, without actually balancing the budget is a short term stopgap and an easy transfer of wealth. I'm sure the Saudis will want to buy a lot more land, oil CEOs strip mining and fracking regardless of harm to others water, etc etc. Also Trump has repeatedly said he's going to rebuild the Military which sounds like more spending which is even harder on a budget, military industrial complex much?

    Repealing all regulations, even the good ones, is a boon for big business too.

    I've grown up in small business, putting people to work is a good thing. However I've also seen how some businesses can squash the little guy in unethical ways or by using their leverage with politicians to their favor.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    So, just plain conservative, or libertarian-conservative?
    There are two types of conservatives, real conservatives and fake conservatives. You can go ahead and guess what kind Trump is.


  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post

    People of left temperament do generally feel that people of right temperament are utter morons. You have total contempt for them. Natural! But let me assure you that these people do exist, and while their average IQ is indeed lower than the average IQ of the left (the difference is slight), they are the ones who grow your food, deliver your insulin, and maintain your electrical system. You need them.
    Education ≠ Smart
    Uneducated ≠ Stupid

    It takes money to send a person to college. That is the biggest difference. Some folks found out they can make a pretty darned good living without the need of a college degree and the associated debt.
    Last edited by Dr.3D; 11-26-2016 at 07:24 PM.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    There are two types of conservatives, real conservatives and fake conservatives. You can go ahead and guess what kind Trump is.

    Who cares about policies or someone being conservative? We got a winner in Trump, he beat Hillary and in this new era, that is all that matters.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    There are two types of conservatives, real conservatives and fake conservatives. You can go ahead and guess what kind Trump is.
    As I already told TheCount, my guess is that he's not particularly conservative at all, polically. Not fake, not real, just not.

    Are *you* a fake conservative or a real conservative, NiKKKers?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    So you are a conservative? You consider yourself a conservative?
    I don't consider myself a conservative, as I abhor identity politics. I've no need of club or cultural membership, which is also why I feel no need to toe a particular line here. Generally speaking, my political viewpoints are conservative when it comes to governmental and fiscal matters, and more 'it's not my business if it doesn't affect me' when it comes to cultural matters. Call that whatever you will.

    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    I thought that it seemed you gave our right-leaning eccentricities more jeering than our left-leaning ones.
    Oh, this is definitely true, for the same reason that I mock Trump more than I mock Hillary here: There's no sense preaching to the choir. Also, the 'left-leaning eccentricities' here are mostly 'get government out of people's lives' types of things, which I agree with and don't think of as particularly 'left.' They're only leftist in terms of the culture wars nonsense that has replaced actual politics in the United States.


    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    My post, as I said, was just by way of helpful explanation of my theory of how Trump won over (most) conservatives. But you need no such explanation, being a staunch conservative yourself. So, again, my misunderstanding!
    Trump didn't win over conservatives, that much is obvious by the terrible number of votes that he got. The election was a referendum on Hillary and the sorts of things that she stands for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    I think it's safe to say you yourself do not have a conservative temperament, TheCount. Yes? So you are not particularly well-suited to grasp it.

    For me, if I were a conservative, it would be about winning. Conservatives have been Total Losers for half a century, probably a century, and maybe, actually, since Jacksonian times. Total. Complete. Utter. Losers. Nothing and I mean nothing that conservatives would have wanted and had in their agenda has been accomplished at the national level. So really, does it matter if Trump is a "conservative"? No. What matters is can he actually win? Can he succeed in getting through some part of the conservative agenda, unlike all the sad, total losers before him? That is the bet conservatives made with him, in my opinion, even though they didn't consciously put it that way. Long-shot though it might be.

    Oh, and he's going to bring back "Merry Christmas"! Remember? You probably don't -- just another ridiculous thing Trump said, right?, but this is the kind of stuff conservatives really care about. And he gave them what they wanted, about a hundred times over.
    This....this is sarcasm, right?

  23. #20
    Trump knows conservative talking points and positions, but he doesn't understand the reasoning behind them. Probably the biggest example of this was the "forum" he did with Chris Mathews where Matthews backed him into saying women should be punished for having abortions. Another biggie is pretty much everything he has said about health care.

    The worst part is that he showed very little interest in learning this stuff during the campaign, so he is completely dependent on people like Mike Pence and Jeff Sessions to drive a conservative agenda.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    This....this is sarcasm, right?
    I don't think it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post

    Not bad, but just as with most of the rest of this sort of fare there is too much assumption present. Raimondo does seem to limit his in some notable degree when compared with many others, but still speaks based on some excess. We as a people have gotten into some very bad habits.

    Assume nothing. Take no grant of truth based on appearance or word, nor even action at this point. The man is not even sworn in. Give him rope aplenty. No matter what we feel or suspect, it will make little to no difference in terms of results from a Trump administration - certainly not at this early stage in the game. Pay it out in silence and see what he weaves. Time will come to make noise later, I suspect.

    Another point to consider for the ultra-paranoid: It is not beyond plausibility that Trump was put in place as a sorting device for the purpose of separating those whom Theye would have identified as "troublesome". Float a Trump and see who comes forth. This is a rather outside possibility, but not beyond it. I mention it that people may be prepared in their minds for absolutely anything, including flying elephants.

    But remain silent on the question of whether Trump is what he says/appears. If nothing else, consider it an exercise in the cultivation of self-control, and as a lesson in the virtue of wait/see patience. While we're at it, it's also a lesson in humility and in the practice of scientific method as well.

    There is much to be gained by just sitting in wait, watching. There is much to be lost in running off, half-cocked.

    I would finally add that for those who make big and presumptuous remarks about Trump, for or against, do so not only without validly demonstrated cause, but will have no valid basis for the "I told you so"s in the event their lousy prognostications come to pass. This is because the eventual correctness of their words cannot be causally linked to the outcomes without demonstration of the link between the original assertions and evidence available at the time. In other words, they just got lucky. So unless you can provide damning evidence of Trump's devilry or sainthood, your opinions on who he is and what he will ultimately bring to pass are naught more than hot air. Speak if you will, but it behooves you to temper your utterances and provide any assertions with abundant and valid support.
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    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

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    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  26. #23

    What Trump Means?

    It means that nothing is going to change with foreign policy, monetary/fiscal policy, nor domestic policy. All of you who supported Trump are going to be disappointed.
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    As I already told TheCount, my guess is that he's not particularly conservative at all, polically. Not fake, not real, just not.

    Are *you* a fake conservative or a real conservative, NiKKKers?
    This thread isn't about me, you're welcome to start one but I think it would be off topic in this subforum. Your double think sickens me to the core. There isn't a middle gray area to this, either Trump is filling his cabinet with people that want to expand CIA spying powers, bildabergers, anti-Iran Zionists, or he is a conservative. Its not both, its not splitting the difference. This is a flat out lie that you are propagating.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Your double think sickens me to the core. There isn't a middle gray area to this, either Trump is filling his cabinet with people that want to expand CIA spying powers, bildabergers, anti-Iran Zionists, or he is a conservative. Its not both, its not splitting the difference. This is a flat out lie that you are propagating.
    To certain people, all that is important is that "we" won. Any attempt to get these people to define who this "we" group of winners is, exactly, leads to an endless loop of circular reasoning. This leads me to one of two conclusions: Either the logic as to how exactly "we" won is incredibly poor, or they would rather not share exactly what sort of people won as a result of Trump's election.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    Repealing all regulations, even the good ones, is a boon for big business too.
    Repealing the regulation is still a good thing. Yes repealing the the regulations can be a boon to some big business - those big businesses that do not rely on regulations to artificially provide a de facto monopoly keeping small competition and new startups out. For the most part, however, regulations merely protect big business from competition from small and new business.

    In fact quite often big business is the lobbyist and author of regulations. For instance Enron was a tireless advocate for strict global energy regulations. Phillip Morris aggressively lobbied for heightened federal regulation of tobacco. General Motors provided critical support for the "clean air" regulations. All of theses regulations were to keep out competition from smaller rivals and raise the cost of entry to prevent any competition from new startups. With few if any exceptions, every significant introduction of government regulation, taxation, and spending has been to the benefit of some big business.


    https://www.cato.org/policy-report/j...big-government
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
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  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    So, just plain conservative, or libertarian-conservative?
    How about ronservative?

    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  32. #28

  33. #29
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    helmuth opines: [Trump] doesn't smoke, drink, or do drugs, and to all accounts never has, not even once. Conservative. He was brought up in military boarding school. Conservative.

    So temperamentally he has some right, but probably just as much left.




    ...ime, many more people who identify as 'liberals' take MUCH better care of their bodies, have a better diet, etc. than your typical 'conservative republican,' who tends towards a horrible diet and morbid obesity...[and morbid goddamned foolishness]

    ...helmuth has his own unique definition of 'conservatism'...as do most/all 'conservatives'...confusion abounds in republicratdom...

    ...myself, i like to use a dictionary...where 'conservatives' are defined as 'people who want to preserve the status quo and existing institutions'...

    ...one problem is that many radio-republican fools consider themselves 'conservatives'...but what they really want is massive [and stooooooooooooooooopid] change in many areas of government...advocating for massive change and calling yourself 'conservative' is just plain ignorant, inane..

    ....ime, 'conservatives' really really suck...for one example, i've never met even one who honestly understands the hideous origin and nature of even one 'dollar' despite their holes frequently working as to the illion dollar economy...

    ...ime, the biggest group in 'the conservative tent' are the abortion prohibitionists...ime, abortion prohibitionists, like drug prohibitionists, etc., are consistently thoughtless...emotionally driven...easily misled...
    Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 11-27-2016 at 09:16 PM.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    This is a flat out lie that you are propagating.
    Could you please state the lie that you have hallucinated into my posts and that you believe -- in all sincerity, I'm sure -- that I am "propagating"? Just put the lie in simple sentence form. That way those not quite so hallucinatory will be able to understand what's going on here.

    Thanks!

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