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Thread: Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal

  1. #61
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    I think diminished gang violence and improvement of living standards would count in the longterm, because ultimately people immigrate to leave something, the effects of our WoD being the most likely something. People historically don't just decide en masse to leave their ancestral homes for something better, there's usually an agitator behind them for impetus. Ending the war would corrode the cartels' US gangs.



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  3. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    I think diminished gang violence and improvement of living standards would count in the longterm, because ultimately people immigrate to leave something, the effects of our WoD being the most likely something. People historically don't just decide en masse to leave their ancestral homes for something better, there's usually an agitator behind them for impetus. Ending the war would corrode the cartels' US gangs.
    Got it, but I don't mind that Guatemalans et al are coming here.

    The WoD should end yesterday, but among the reasons isn't the cessation of immigration from the south.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  4. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by RestorationOfLiberty View Post
    Enjoying being out voted by welfare voter immigrants.
    Right. Because Jeff Sessions asset forfeiture campaign is soooooo pro liberty.

    Right. Because it's just my imagination that G.W. Bush expanded welfare through Medicare part D.

    Right. Because it's just a coincidence that Romneycare is so much like Obamacare.

    Right. Because all of the corporate welfare that Republicans vote for does not actually exist.

    Seriously though, the idea that a large influx of Hispanic voters necessarily means permanent democratic majorities is a myth. Even NPR recognizes this.

    See: http://www.npr.org/2016/12/22/506347...panics-from-20
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Got it, but I don't mind that Guatemalans et al are coming here.

    The WoD should end yesterday, but among the reasons isn't the cessation of immigration from the south.
    Stopping immigration's not the point, but relaxing immigration, so the South and Central Americans aren't hemorrhaging populations, but those individuals and families, who still want to come here for better opportunities can. Our covert wars have caused the corruption and turf wars destroying their economies, displacing thousands, maybe millions, who would otherwise be content to live in their countries.
    Last edited by Raginfridus; 08-12-2017 at 06:43 PM.

  6. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    Stopping immigration's not the point, but relaxing immigration, so the South and Central Americans aren't hemorrhaging populations, but those individuals and families, who still want to come here for better opportunities can.
    If you mean that you favor less restrictive immigration policy, I entirely agree.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  7. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If you mean that you favor less restrictive immigration policy, I entirely agree.
    because ...
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  8. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    because ...
    You don't know how to make a decent taco.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  9. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    You don't know how to make a decent taco.
    This is nothing compared with your inability to remove your head from your ass.
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If you mean that you favor less restrictive immigration policy, I entirely agree.
    Immigration from South and Central America is related to the government's WoD. Once we've stopped our meddling war south of the border, then we can evaluate whether the system is adequate to meet relaxed demand. Judging the immigration system's ability to meet the stress of the refugee crisis is going to return false impressions.

  11. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    You don't know how to make a decent taco.
    So for a "decent taco" you are willing to have your entire nation, culture, rights, freedoms, wealth, and future stolen out from under you by imported welfare voters?

    Wow, its almost like you are trading EVERYTHING for nothing.

  12. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is nothing compared with your inability to remove your head from your ass.

    "MUH NEW FOODS" "MUH CHEAP LABOR". If he loves Mexico so much he should just move there and we can be rid of their stupidity.

  13. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    Immigration from South and Central America is related to the government's WoD. Once we've stopped our meddling war south of the border, then we can evaluate whether the system is adequate to meet relaxed demand. Judging the immigration system's ability to meet the stress of the refugee crisis is going to return false impressions.
    How about we just dont take anyone for a while? Why is that not an opinion? Why not put the interests of AMERICANS first?

  14. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Right. Because Jeff Sessions asset forfeiture campaign is soooooo pro liberty.

    Right. Because it's just my imagination that G.W. Bush expanded welfare through Medicare part D.

    Right. Because it's just a coincidence that Romneycare is so much like Obamacare.

    Right. Because all of the corporate welfare that Republicans vote for does not actually exist.

    Seriously though, the idea that a large influx of Hispanic voters necessarily means permanent democratic majorities is a myth. Even NPR recognizes this.

    See: http://www.npr.org/2016/12/22/506347...panics-from-20
    You want those things to go away? Great, now tell me how importing so many people that will make electing people who will repeal such things impossible is anything but insane?

    Yeah, its not like NPR is wrong, lying, or both, right?

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/st...rticle/2547220

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...gly-democrats/

    You want to live in a nation wide California? A one party state in which the election only gives more and more power to a handful of wealthy elite while you fewer and fewer rights?

    Because that is the end result of such mass immigration.

  15. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    Stopping immigration's not the point, but relaxing immigration, so the South and Central Americans aren't hemorrhaging populations, but those individuals and families, who still want to come here for better opportunities can. Our covert wars have caused the corruption and turf wars destroying their economies, displacing thousands, maybe millions, who would otherwise be content to live in their countries.
    Bull$#@!. They are more then content to come here and enjoy welfare.

  16. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by RestorationOfLiberty View Post
    Bull$#@!. They are more then content to come here and enjoy welfare.
    My charms are irresistible so when I start espousing the benefits of liberty they will have no choice and will abandon all the free $#@! they were getting from the left.
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  17. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by RestorationOfLiberty View Post
    You want those things to go away? Great, now tell me how importing so many people that will make electing people who will repeal such things impossible is anything but insane?
    So you think that most immigrants are going to vote for Jeff Sessions? Really? I don't think you thought your post all the way through. Your Jeff Sessions voters are those alt right national socialist yahoos out causing a ruckus in Charlottesville with fighting against the globalist socialist yahoos. Both sides are socialists.

    As for welfare voters, its funny how the same people who argue against immigration on the welfare front then turn around and are against H1B visas that go to people who, by definition, can't be on welfare.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  18. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Seriously though, the idea that a large influx of Hispanic voters necessarily means permanent democratic majorities is a myth.
    The myth's that future e'er is known,
    Ahead's a dark path, flotsam-strown.
    The Dems could fragment racially,
    For one alt. possibility.

    The fact is hispos far left lean,
    How 'twill play out remains t'be seen.
    Left's bad for civ. Migrants are left.
    That much is clear. Fill in the rest.
    The rebel of the 21st Century will be old-fashioned.

    No enemies to the right

  19. #78

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    Poetry, pictures, and "Europe!!1!!!11!!", Oh My!

  20. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    My charms are irresistible so when I start espousing the benefits of liberty they will have no choice and will abandon all the free $#@! they were getting from the left.
    Funny isnt? They condemn anyone who views large groups of people as having similarities as "statist" but then view all of humanity with the lens of "everyone wants the same things that I want"...

  21. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    So you think that most immigrants are going to vote for Jeff Sessions? Really? I don't think you thought your post all the way through. Your Jeff Sessions voters are those alt right national socialist yahoos out causing a ruckus in Charlottesville with fighting against the globalist socialist yahoos. Both sides are socialists.
    ...No, that was Antifa, The Alt Right had a permit to protest, then the Mayor told the police to stand down and drive them toward the antifa and get hurt as they stood back and did nothing, just like Baltimore with BLM, just like at the battle Sacromento, bearkly, San Jose, Chicago (wow I am noticing a pattern here).

    Nope, one side has a few misguiding socialists in its ranks, one is NOTHING BUT socialists.

    More over the Alt Right has done more for Liberty, limited government, etc in just 5 years then "Libertarian" ever have and likely EVER will just by helping to preventing Clinton from being elected, let alone helping to elect Trump.

    Your welcome you ingrate.

    As for welfare voters, its funny how the same people who argue against immigration on the welfare front then turn around and are against H1B visas that go to people who, by definition, can't be on welfare.
    Yeah, why import more labor that will reduce the wages of Americans?

    They still abuse the system, likes not act like their are NO H1B visa holders on welfare, or their wives are not claiming to be single mothers for extra gibs, ok?

    You are made you can not make any arguments, you are mad you can not counter the lies that have been spewed for years about immigration, trade, borders, genetics, IQ, etc.

    The facts win in the end.

  22. #81

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    The myth's that future e'er is known,
    Ahead's a dark path, flotsam-strown.
    The Dems could fragment racially,
    For one alt. possibility.

    The fact is hispos far left lean,
    How 'twill play out remains t'be seen.
    Left's bad for civ. Migrants are left.
    That much is clear. Fill in the rest.
    There was an old Countess of Bray,

    And you might think it odd when I say,

    That despite her high station, rank and education,

    She always spelled "$#@!" with a K.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  23. #82

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    The myth's that future e'er is known,
    Ahead's a dark path, flotsam-strown.
    The Dems could fragment racially,
    For one alt. possibility.

    The fact is hispos far left lean,
    How 'twill play out remains t'be seen.
    Left's bad for civ. Migrants are left.
    That much is clear. Fill in the rest.
    Very clever. You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to helmuth_hubener again.

    Most immigrant groups diversify in their voting patters over time. Take the Irish for instance. No guarantee on them voting Democrat these days.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #83

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RestorationOfLiberty View Post
    ...No, that was Antifa, The Alt Right had a permit to protest, then the Mayor told the police to stand down and drive them toward the antifa and get hurt as they stood back and did nothing, just like Baltimore with BLM, just like at the battle Sacromento, bearkly, San Jose, Chicago (wow I am noticing a pattern here).

    Nope, one side has a few misguiding socialists in its ranks, one is NOTHING BUT socialists.

    More over the Alt Right has done more for Liberty, limited government, etc in just 5 years then "Libertarian" ever have and likely EVER will just by helping to preventing Clinton from being elected, let alone helping to elect Trump.

    Your welcome you ingrate.



    Yeah, why import more labor that will reduce the wages of Americans?

    They still abuse the system, likes not act like their are NO H1B visa holders on welfare, or their wives are not claiming to be single mothers for extra gibs, ok?

    You are made you can not make any arguments, you are mad you can not counter the lies that have been spewed for years about immigration, trade, borders, genetics, IQ, etc.

    The facts win in the end.
    I see you totally ignored my point about Jeff Sessions and asset forfeiture. That's probably because you know that I'm right and that my point about Jeff Sessions destroys your whole argument. Attacks on liberty come from both parties.

    But since you seem to be solely concerned about welfare and socialism I assume that means you support H1B visas? Those immigrants are, by definition, coming for high end jobs as opposed to welfare.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  25. #84

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I see you totally ignored my point about Jeff Sessions and asset forfeiture. That's probably because you know that I'm right and that my point about Jeff Sessions destroys your whole argument. Attacks on liberty come from both parties.

    But since you seem to be solely concerned about welfare and socialism I assume that means you support H1B visas? Those immigrants are, by definition, coming for high end jobs as opposed to welfare.
    Total $#@! talking point, the left is FAR, FAR, FAR more hostile to liberty and the people that create/sustain it.

    No, I oppose h1B visas as they lower wages, pay, increase the cost of living and displace Americans inside their their nation and its workforce.

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