Will this forum be returning to normal now?

[Natural Citizen]

Hell yeah. I worked in my Grandpa's fields. I worked so hard and absorbed so much nicotene I puked.

Those knives are no joke either. It'll slice you through the bone just on an accidental miss.

But yeah, man. That's some serious work. It'll make a man out of a feller.

I never thought about absorbing the nicotine. I guess you do, though.

[oyarde]

Melungeons ?

[pcosmar]

Normal? WTH? You do realize what type of people frequent this forum, right?

was my thought.
normal is highly overrated.

[pcosmar]

What does that make me?

Kentuckian.?

[Theocrat]

That's usually how American politics does. Trump may have to make a couple glaring errors first to take them down a peg before they seek reconciliation. Problem with that process re Obama was the supporters just blinded themselves to any error and pretended at perfection, so there never was the rapprochement.

Yeah, for some members here, no matter how badly Trump does in office, I'm sure his supporters will always believe that it's him "playing chess."

[UWDude]

Yeah, for some members here, no matter how badly Trump does in office, I'm sure his supporters will always believe that it's him "playing chess."

You are sure, are you?

[nobody's_hero]

Hate to be a downer, but, this forum hasn't been "normal" since 2008, when apparently our differences did not outweigh our goal to get Ron Paul elected.

With him gone, our differences have surfaced, and finding another candidate whom all of us can agree on will be a near-impossible task.

[Theocrat]

You are sure, are you?

Yes. Some of you refuse to see what he truly is, so no matter what he does, you will believe it somehow has to do with restoring liberty.

[UWDude]

Yes. Some of you refuse to see what he truly is, so no matter what he does, you will believe it somehow has to do with restoring liberty.

Hooray for the us vs them narrative. If Trump ends up doing a lot of good, will you acknowledge it?

[Theocrat]

Hooray for the us vs them narrative. If Trump ends up doing a lot of good, will you acknowledge it?

Trump won't do any good because the foundation of his character is corrupt, and from that, he has a dangerous ideology about the nature of government, economics, rights, etc. One example of that is Trump's history dealing with his eminent domain abuses and wanting to take oil from other nations (Google it for yourself). And I don't need to mention how may times he has flip-flopped on issues, even denying things which he clearly said before in contradiction to himself.

[Dangergirl]

We're losing the war. We're not working smart, we're working hard and against each other.

Meanwhile the establishment is in an all out coordinated war against the 1st Amendment and doing everything policy-wise that they can to prevent anyone else from ever getting a chance to undermine them. They are doing their best to take over the intruder into their office. They are vying for their "people" to get positions. They are infiltrating our ranks, taking over the Libertarian candidates just as they took over the Tea-Party. I have no doubt they're plotting to take over the Green, Constitution, and Independent parties as well.

We need to encourage our ranks to get in there and battle back. We can't keep pretending "outside" politics doesn't affect us because it already has. We're making mistakes by isolating ourselves. Sometimes we have to work with others we don't completely agree with to gain what common ground we can.

[Ender]

What is this "normal" you speak of?

[The Gold Standard]

We need to encourage our ranks to get in there and battle back.

Battle back against whom? The guy you have been cheerleading for, well, since I first saw one of your posts a couple of weeks ago? His cabinet appointments?

[devil21]

I hope not, considering what passes as a "normal" forum these days. Most are unbearable with all the personal attacks, shill accounts, race baiting, etc.

[UWDude]

Trump won't do any good because the foundation of his character is corrupt, and from that, he has a dangerous ideology about the nature of government, economics, rights, etc. One example of that is Trump's history dealing with his eminent domain abuses and wanting to take oil from other nations (Google it for yourself). And I don't need to mention how may times he has flip-flopped on issues, even denying things which he clearly said before in contradiction to himself.

So... haters gonna hate.

[GunnyFreedom]

Hooray for the us vs them narrative.

Because none of that started with calling anybody who didn't like Trump a "cuck?"

If Trump ends up doing a lot of good, will you acknowledge it?

The population of these forums, you should recall, are those unique political junkies who were able to recognize when even Obama and Bush did 'good things,' although despising them even more than the mindless hordes arrayed against them. If you are trying to throw a hypocrite flag on that play, then you are barking up the wrong tree.

[Theocrat]

So... haters gonna hate.

I don't hate the man; I just hate what he stands for and what he stands upon.

[Danke]

Trump won't do any good because the foundation of his character is corrupt, and from that, he has a dangerous ideology about the nature of government, economics, rights, etc. One example of that is Trump's history dealing with his eminent domain abuses and wanting to take oil from other nations (Google it for yourself). And I don't need to mention how may times he has flip-flopped on issues, even denying things which he clearly said before in contradiction to himself.

Rights? You are worried he will take away your right to execute gays?

[nikcers]

Will this forum be returning to normal now?

Or have we lost it forever now?

Can we put our brains back into our heads if we don't know they are missing? How do you free yourself if you don't know you are enslaved? This is the darkest timeline, we might be entering into a new dark age.

[Jamesiv1]

Trump's legacy is probably going to be nothing other than making great trade deals and putting Americans back to work. That's 80% of what he talked about the past year and a half.

Everything else is just too big - i.e. Wars, the Fed, immigration, healthcare, etc. Elites, Globalists and Big Business will not give up those things. And I think Trump knows it.

And making it Ok again to speak your mind without being PC. I'm crossing my fingers on that one.

[GunnyFreedom]

We're losing the war.

In large part because we're suddenly okay with a VP who wants to emulate Dick Cheney.

We're not working smart,

In large part because too many of us are getting led around by our loins and emotions instead of our brains.

we're working hard and against each other.

In large part because there are people once thought to have had a functional rational mind, now offering apologetics for the likes of Giuliani and Sessions.

Meanwhile the establishment is in an all out coordinated war against the 1st Amendment and doing everything policy-wise that they can to prevent anyone else from ever getting a chance to undermine them. They are doing their best to take over the intruder into their office. They are vying for their "people" to get positions. They are infiltrating our ranks, taking over the Libertarian candidates just as they took over the Tea-Party. I have no doubt they're plotting to take over the Green, Constitution, and Independent parties as well.

I do not trust your perception. Even if much of the above is factually correct, I have no confidence in your ability to discern who the actual enemy is. Ultimately, it would be better that the 1st Amendment were destroyed than to have it coopted and perverted into a kind of thought control to empower some despotic genocidal orwellian regime, so who you fight with is at least as important as whom you fight against.

We need to encourage our ranks to get in there and battle back. We can't keep pretending "outside" politics doesn't affect us because it already has. We're making mistakes by isolating ourselves.

Or, several of us are sacrificing our own voices in order to isolate others, whom we believe will only make things worse.

Sometimes we have to work with others we don't completely agree with to gain what common ground we can.

I can work with people who share less than half of policy in common. When we start to get below 25% commonality, it starts to get difficult to make anything other than a complete mess. At 10% policy agreement, what small commonalities exist are arrived at for completely different reasons, so either side's fundamental policy changes to effect the same goal, will be largely incompatible with the others, since policy changes generally work from underlying rationale neither side would believe the other idea would even have a relationship tot he problem at hand.

We are not talking about Reagan's "Eighty percent ally" here. Even the doggone communists post and enforce stop signs.

I do not believe that a legit Constitutional Conservative has any common ground with Team Trump. What policies we may happen to share (one out of fifteen?) come from completely disparate rationales, and any attempt to legislate or regulate them would therefore fail to find common ground as each side will be trying to address "the root causes" on which they will disagree vehemently.

What that means in real world terms, is that even their best effort to address a goal we both share, will be done in such a way that either abuses power in a different way, or works from a set of false premises that ends up creating a positive feedback cycle and makes the original problem worse.

Perhaps the people you find so annoying are not in fact being selfish or insular. Perhaps those people are in fact fighting valiantly to prevent things from getting worse, and you simply cannot perceive that because your sympathy largely rests with the parties they are trying to stop?

[Dangergirl]

Gunny, the only people that annoy me are people who assume so much. It would be nice I were invited into your discussion because I sure don't know the person you're answering even though you quote my post. You are half-cocked. Come make love, not war.

[Theocrat]

In large part because we're suddenly okay with a VP who wants to emulate Dick Cheney.



In large part because too many of us are getting led around by our loins and emotions instead of our brains.



In large part because there are people once thought to have had a functional rational mind, now offering apologetics for the likes of Giuliani and Sessions.



I do not trust your perception. Even if much of the above is factually correct, I have no confidence in your ability to discern who the actual enemy is. Ultimately, it would be better that the 1st Amendment were destroyed than to have it coopted and perverted into a kind of thought control to empower some despotic genocidal orwellian regime, so who you fight with is at least as important as whom you fight against.



Or, several of us are sacrificing our own voices in order to isolate others, whom we believe will only make things worse.



I can work with people who share less than half of policy in common. When we start to get below 25% commonality, it starts to get difficult to make anything other than a complete mess. At 10% policy agreement, what small commonalities exist are arrived at for completely different reasons, so either side's fundamental policy changes to effect the same goal, will be largely incompatible with the others, since policy changes generally work from underlying rationale neither side would believe the other idea would even have a relationship tot he problem at hand.

We are not talking about Reagan's "Eighty percent ally" here. Even the doggone communists post and enforce stop signs.

I do not believe that a legit Constitutional Conservative has any common ground with Team Trump. What policies we may happen to share (one out of fifteen?) come from completely disparate rationales, and any attempt to legislate or regulate them would therefore fail to find common ground as each side will be trying to address "the root causes" on which they will disagree vehemently.

What that means in real world terms, is that even their best effort to address a goal we both share, will be done in such a way that either abuses power in a different way, or works from a set of false premises that ends up creating a positive feedback cycle and makes the original problem worse.

Perhaps the people you find so annoying are not in fact being selfish or insular. Perhaps those people are in fact fighting valiantly to prevent things from getting worse, and you simply cannot perceive that because your sympathy largely rests with the parties they are trying to stop?

Gunny, don't forget that Trump is "playing 3D Chess." He needs to appoint neocons into his cabinet so that he "drains the swamp" of neocons. Not only that, Trump is also going to make America great again by helping us to spend and borrow our way out of debt (since he is a "master of debt management," after all). And you can be sure that Trump will pass his own executive orders in order to get rid of executive orders. [lmao]

[LibertyEagle]

And you can be sure that Trump will pass his own executive orders in order to get rid of executive orders. [lmao]

Yes, because when Ron Paul was going to get rid of past President's executive orders, it's a good thing. But, when Trump plans to do same, it's a bad thing.

[Theocrat]

Yes, because when Ron Paul was going to get rid of past President's executive orders, it's a good thing. But, when Trump plans to do same, it's a bad thing.

The key difference between Dr. Paul's use of executive orders and Donald Trump's use of executive orders is that Dr. Paul would never use them to legislate policy, whereas Trump would use executive orders to legislate, especially to circumvent Congress on the issue of immigration policy.

So, my point about "Trump passing his own executive orders in order to get rid of executive orders" is that Trump is just going to use them for his own purposes, even if they are used for different reasons than Obama's. And you can rest assured that Trump's use of them will be to legislate his own policy, just as he always uses government authority to get what he wants.

[Athan]

I hope so. Now is a good time to make serious gains. You can't do that with partisans going full french revolution on each other.

[Jamesiv1]

The key difference between Dr. Paul's use of executive orders and Donald Trump's use of executive orders is that Dr. Paul would never use them to legislate policy, whereas Trump would use executive orders to legislate, especially to circumvent Congress on the issue of immigration policy.

So, my point about "Trump passing his own executive orders in order to get rid of executive orders" is that Trump is just going to use them for his own purposes, even if they are used for different reasons than Obama's. And you can rest assured that Trump's use of them will be to legislate his own policy, just as he always uses government authority to get what he wants.

My goodness. You have massive predictive powers!

I salute you!!!!

[brandon]

I think this forum is too far gone. I'm not sure where to go to reasonably discuss politics from a pragmatic libertarian perspective anymore. Seems like our kind have kind of died out in the last couple years.

It's almost like the site splintered between racist alt-right, tin foil hat conspiracy, and anarchists. I think the anarchists are mostly gone now. But so are the more reasonable minds that wanted to advance moderate libertarian policy.

[CPUd]

The key difference between Dr. Paul's use of executive orders and Donald Trump's use of executive orders is that Dr. Paul would never use them to legislate policy, whereas Trump would use executive orders to legislate, especially to circumvent Congress on the issue of immigration policy.

So, my point about "Trump passing his own executive orders in order to get rid of executive orders" is that Trump is just going to use them for his own purposes, even if they are used for different reasons than Obama's. And you can rest assured that Trump's use of them will be to legislate his own policy, just as he always uses government authority to get what he wants.

example:

[Origanalist]

I think this forum is too far gone. I'm not sure where to go to reasonably discuss politics from a pragmatic libertarian perspective anymore. Seems like our kind have kind of died out in the last couple years.

It's almost like the site splintered between racist alt-right, tin foil hat conspiracy, and anarchists. I think the anarchists are mostly gone now. But so are the more reasonable minds that wanted to advance moderate libertarian policy.

What is moderate libertarian policy?