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Thread: Massie wants to avoid the tough questions

  1. #1

    Massie wants to avoid the tough questions

    I recently was unfriended on FB by Thomas because, revelations came out (due to wikileaks) that Hillary wanted Trump to be the nominee.

    I have criticized Thomas about supporting that anti-liberty candidate, but after the newer revelations, I asked if he was willing to reconsider his trump support and pledged vote and how he felt after finding out that he and hillary were supporting the same person.

    He brushed it aside and unfriended. Unfortunate.



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  3. #2
    So does this mean that Thomas Massie is a paid Hillary shill or a paid Trump shill?


    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law." - The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." - Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      - Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      - Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    So does this mean that Thomas Massie is a paid Hillary shill or a paid Trump shill?
    Isn't it obvious?

  5. #4
    You can't expect a sitting Republican to not at least tacitly go along with their Party's nominee. Especially in a district as conservative as his.

    Remember, Ron Paul endorsed a lot of people a lot worse than Donald Trump.


    Give Thomas a break, his voting record is practically perfect, and that's what really matters.



    __________________________________________________ ________________
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  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    You can't expect a sitting Republican to not at least tacitly go along with their Party's nominee. Especially in a district as conservative as his.

    Remember, Ron Paul endorsed a lot of people a lot worse than Donald Trump.


    Give Thomas a break, his voting record is practically perfect, and that's what really matters.



    For once I can't disagree with teh Collins. This election cycle is getting pretty weird.

  7. #6
    Why should Massie feel obligated to use his Facebook for stuff like this?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Isn't it obvious?
    I'm sure it is to somebody.

    But it seems awfully complicated to me.

    I guess I'm just easily befuddled when it comes to all this technical voting and electioneering stuff ...

  9. #8
    Would people take this same 'cut him some slack' with just about any GOP member that's backing Trump, or is it just because it's Massie?



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    I'm sure it is to somebody.

    But it seems awfully complicated to me.

    I guess I'm just easily befuddled when it comes to all this technical voting and electioneering stuff ...
    Let not your heart..or mind...be troubled. Just vote Trump. A vote for anyone or any other party is worth, like, two votes for Hillary. That would make you a Hillary, status quo, supporter.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.NoSmile View Post
    Would people take this same 'cut him some slack' with just about any GOP member that's backing Trump, or is it just because it's Massie?
    It's because it's Massie. Massie has cred. He's earned it.

    But "just about any [other] GOP member" has not earned it.

    (Ron Paul endorsed Lameass Whatsizface. Thomas Massie endorsed Donald Trump. Big whoop to both. )

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Let not your heart..or mind...be troubled. Just vote Trump. A vote for anyone or any other party is worth, like, two votes for Hillary. That would make you a Hillary, status quo, supporter.
    You seem very authoritative. I shall certainly follow your counsel. Thank you for clearing it all up for me!

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    You seem very authoritative. I shall certainly follow your counsel. Thank you for clearing it all up for me!
    I'm a beta-alpha to your singularly beta. It's all about knowing your place in the pack.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I'm a beta-alpha to your singularly beta. It's all about knowing your place in the pack.
    Beta-alpha? Dear goodness!

    Please don't tell me there are alpha-betas and beta-betas and alpha-alphas, too ...

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Beta-alpha? Dear goodness!

    Please don't tell me there are alpha-betas and beta-betas and alpha-alphas, too ...
    Just wait until you meet the gamma-sigmas! I'm told they are supposed to use a special bathroom.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Beta-alpha? Dear goodness!

    Please don't tell me there are alpha-betas and beta-betas and alpha-alphas, too ...
    Oh, no. Alphas are Alphas. There cannot be an alpha-beta. Otherwise is would not be an alpha. There couldn't even be an alpha-alpha. Otherwise you aren't an alpha. There are, however, many beta descriptors. Beta-alpha. Beta-beta-alpha. Beta-beta-beta-alpha. It goes on and on. You just have to know your place in the pack. Trump is THE Alpha. No beta.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Just wait until you meet the gamma-sigmas! I'm told they are supposed to use a special bathroom.
    Alphas don't need a special bathroom. They just piss on everyone else's leg and tell them that it is raining.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    It's because it's Massie. Massie has cred. He's earned it.

    But "just about any [other] GOP member" has not earned it.

    (Ron Paul endorsed Lameass Whatsizface. Thomas Massie endorsed Donald Trump. Big whoop to both. )
    I have to agree. We know Thomas more than just passingly here. Hell, I still have his cell # from years ago.

    Also, the sorts of questions in the OP tend to be traps with no winning answers. I'd have dumped the OP as well, seeing as I am not fond of having my time wasted.

    There are many practical reasons for supporting Trump. It may be nauseating, but it is still less toxic than the prospect of a Hillary in the Oval Office. With Russia and China apparently prepping for nuclear war (which COULD be smoke, but does anyone really want to test this?), I see no virtue in playing the ideals at this time. It sucks ass that we are in this corner, but here we stand. Unzipping and whipping out Ron Paul, God bless his heart, will accomplish what? The vast majority of Americans view him as a nut - testament to the soundless depths of their ignorance. Fact, logic, and reason have no place in the lives of such people, meaning there is no appealing to nonexistent intellect. This is the hand we have been dealt. There will be no re-shuffles. Therefore, you play it as given, or you fold. I wish things were different, but they are not.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.


  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Just wait until you meet the gamma-sigmas! I'm told they are supposed to use a special bathroom.
    I think I know the one you're talking about. It's got that special device nobody knows the name of, so people just call it "Mr. Thingy". Eh what?
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.


  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by 65fastback2+2 View Post
    I recently was unfriended on FB by Thomas because, revelations came out (due to wikileaks) that Hillary wanted Trump to be the nominee.

    I have criticized Thomas about supporting that anti-liberty candidate, but after the newer revelations, I asked if he was willing to reconsider his trump support and pledged vote and how he felt after finding out that he and hillary were supporting the same person.

    He brushed it aside and unfriended. Unfortunate.
    It was probably a better decision to unfriend you than to point out that you were acting liked a retard.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.NoSmile View Post
    Would people take this same 'cut him some slack' with just about any GOP member that's backing Trump, or is it just because it's Massie?
    Yes, Massie is different.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by 65fastback2+2 View Post
    I recently was unfriended on FB by Thomas because, revelations came out (due to wikileaks) that Hillary wanted Trump to be the nominee.

    I have criticized Thomas about supporting that anti-liberty candidate, but after the newer revelations, I asked if he was willing to reconsider his trump support and pledged vote and how he felt after finding out that he and hillary were supporting the same person.

    He brushed it aside and unfriended. Unfortunate.
    Very unfortunate. Should we ban him?
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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    I think I know the one you're talking about. It's got that special device nobody knows the name of, so people just call it "Mr. Thingy". Eh what?
    Yeah, it's got cam-locks!! .


  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by 65fastback2+2 View Post
    I recently was unfriended on FB ....

    Oooh! Can I have your spot? His list is full! I donate and everything!!!

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    There are many practical reasons for supporting Trump.
    I see nothing practical in supporting Trump.

    I hope that he wins (as I previously explained in this post), but I do not "support" him in any way, shape or form.

    A Trump win will be the most (only?) effective possible demonstration of just how impractical it was to have supported him in the first place.

    Like dogs that have shat upon the rug, some people just need to have their noses rubbed in what they've done before they'll finally learn ...

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    It may be nauseating, but it is still less toxic than the prospect of a Hillary in the Oval Office. With Russia and China apparently prepping for nuclear war (which COULD be smoke, but does anyone really want to test this?), I see no virtue in playing the ideals at this time.
    I don't buy any of the "Hillary = WW3" hysteria. As I've said elsehwere:

    The US excels at (directly or indirectly) stomping the $#@! out of places that have no chance of defending themselves (like Libya and Yemen), but when it comes to places that can and would actually fight back (such as Russia and China), I suspect the only thing you'll see from the US is a lot of screeching threats and hissy fits.

    I see no reason to think that the system's oligarchs want nuclear war. And although she is indeed an arch-interventionist, when it comes to Russia and/or China, I see no reason to think that Hillary - held to heel by her masters - will be anything but all bark and no bite. (But woe betide the unfortunates residing in weak North African and Middle Eastern satrapies ...)

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    This is the hand we have been dealt. There will be no re-shuffles. Therefore, you play it as given, or you fold. I wish things were different, but they are not.
    Just stop playing in the first place. The deck is stacked and the house dealers have all the aces up their sleeves.

    There is no jackpot to be won in their casino, and nothing is going to change until enough people start refusing to ante up ...





    EDIT: I just noticed that that isn't La Boétie pictured in the quote graphic. It's actually a portrait of Michel de Montaigne (he and La Boétie were famous friends). Apparently, whoever made the graphic got them confused.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 11-02-2016 at 07:25 PM.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    I see nothing practical in supporting Trump.

    I hope that he wins (as I previously explained in this post), but I do not "support" him in any way, shape or form.

    A Trump win will be the most (only?) effective possible demonstration of just how impractical it was to have supported him in the first place.

    Like dogs that have shat upon the rug, some people just need to have their noses rubbed in what they've done before they'll finally learn ...



    I don't buy any of the "Hillary = WW3" hysteria. As I've said elsehwere:

    The US excels at (directly or indirectly) stomping the $#@! out of places that have no chance of defending themselves (like Libya and Yemen), but when it comes to places that can and would actually fight back (such as Russia and China), I suspect the only thing you'll see from the US is a lot of screeching threats and hissy fits.

    I see no reason to think that the system's oligarchs want nuclear war. And although she is indeed an arch-interventionist, when it comes to Russia and/or China, I see no reason to think that Hillary - held to heel by her masters - will be anything but all bark and no bite. (But woe betide the unfortunates residing in weak North African and Middle Eastern satrapies ...)



    Stop playing in the first place. The deck is stacked and the house dealers have all the aces up their sleeves.

    There is no jackpot to be won in their casino, and nothing is going to change until enough people just start refusing to ante up ...

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Occam's Banana again.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    For once I can't disagree with teh Collins. This election cycle is getting pretty weird.
    Collins started to sound reasonable recently. What the heck is going on?

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    I see nothing practical in supporting Trump.

    I hope that he wins (as I previously explained in this post), but I do not "support" him in any way, shape or form.
    Don't these seem a bit contradictory?

    A Trump win will be the most (only?) effective possible demonstration of just how impractical it was to have supported him in the first place.
    While likely true, barring special knowledge, I would say this declaration is a bit premature.

    Like dogs that have shat upon the rug, some people just need to have their noses rubbed in what they've done before they'll finally learn ...
    Holy HELL - you cannot be serious. We got our noses rubbed in it by Wilson. Then by Roosevelt II. Then LBJ. Then Nixon. Then Carter. Then Reagan. Then Bush I. Then Der Klinton. Then Bush Part Deux. Then Obammy. And those are only the more easily dredged examples, representing over 100 years of the Man corn-holing the American people, over and over with the same clapped-out old tricks, each successive iteration producing ever wilder success. The average man has learned nothing of value because the truths to which the lessons point are nothing he wishes so much as to consider, much less face, acknowledge, and act against.

    You are expecting the impossible from men whose brains are in a state such that they may be said to have no brains of which to speak.

    I don't buy any of the "Hillary = WW3" hysteria. As I've said elsehwere:
    The US excels at (directly or indirectly) stomping the $#@! out of places that have no chance of defending themselves (like Libya and Yemen), but when it comes to places that can and would actually fight back (such as Russia and China), I suspect the only thing you'll see from the US is a lot of screeching threats and hissy fits.
    Could well be the case. But why then has Russia moved heavy assets including nukes into Kaliningrad, according to reports? That is a LOT of material reality just for the sake of... well, what exactly? Scaring people? Saber rattling? It could be that, but it's a dangerous game in which to engage where misunderstandings and other errors could result in global calamity. Besides, Russia could rattle it sabers in other, far less risky ways, don't you think?

    I see no reason to think that the system's oligarchs want nuclear war.
    That is precisely my view as well, but then how do we explain what we see? Today I heard that the US has sent Marines to Norway and that Putin has now told Olso that they will be nuked if any more Marines arrive there. Is this all bull$#@! too? Not saying it is or is not. I'm not there, so I do not know beyond that which I hear. But if we are living in an era where it's not just the typically idiotic American statesmen who are speaking as dangerously stupid and ill-bred children, but those of nations such as Russia as well, I'd say we are living right at the edge.

    But one thing I DO know is that my little brother is in the South China sea and is not supposed to be there for reasons I will not divulge publicly. Suffice to say that things must be credibly hot in the region for him to be where he is at this time. He is one of those people the navy calls in when they need extraordinary goals to be met or something major has seriously turned to crap. We are, therefore, concerned.

    And although she is indeed an arch-interventionist, when it comes to Russia and/or China, I see no reason to think that Hillary - held to heel by her masters - will be anything but all bark and no bite. (But betide the unfortunates residing in weak North African and Middle Eastern satrapies ...)
    Once again, my views coincide with these. However, I have seen enough remarkably strange stuff to give me pause in assuming anything about anyone in such political circles. Far too much of what I see makes far too little sense for me to take anything for granted.

    Stop playing in the first place. The deck is stacked and the house dealers have all the aces up their sleeves.
    Likely the case. But my view on why to play once again speaks to the slim threads of chance that something unexpected may occur, giving rise to the brand of extreme result I feel represents to only hope for the average dullard. People have learned little to nothing over the last century, much to my astonishment. Just how bad do things have to get such that they finally purchase a clue and act? That is what I hope for, slim as that hope may be. If Trump wins, the left has promised to burn the nation down. This is precisely the sort of reaction I hope to see because nothing less will stir the average man from his self-willed stupor. Even that is a pretty remote chance, not only of anything occurring, but of yielding the better result. But for me the only other alternative entails despair and I won't go there because I am in no mood to shoot my own brains from the confines of the place God made for them. Furthermore, I do not want to continue this slow-burn descent into hell. I'd literally prefer to see civil war, and I don't really want that either. But there appear no hope of Americans rising to the challenges of the accord of the challenge itself. They are uninterested in freedom, preferring convenience and infantile distraction.

    I suppose I may be dead wrong on all of this, but this is how I am perceiving things at the moment. I welcome any ray of hope that would give me a plausible escape route from this tedious view of the world. It isn't that much fun.

    There is no jackpot to be won in their casino, and nothing is going to change until enough people just start refusing to ante up ...
    Not sure what you mean by "refusing to ante up". If you mean refusing to vote, I must disagree strongly. I assume that doing less there carries across to other avenues of action and I believe that history will bear me out on this. That is precisely what Theye want - apathy, for that is what most enables them. If you mean something along the lines of mass civil-disobedience, then I would have to agree with you.

    Not sure this applies in an age of VERY long technological levers, especially when coupled to a ready willingness to use deadly force in whatever measures deemed necessary to get the job done. Doubly so where the people are so ignorant, compliant, and cowardly that a few well chosen examples keeps the rest in line. I no longer have any idea whether there is any debasement to which Americans could be subjected that would give rise to rebellion. We may be too far gone now.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.


  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by 65fastback2+2 View Post
    I recently was unfriended on FB by Thomas because, revelations came out (due to wikileaks) that Hillary wanted Trump to be the nominee.

    I have criticized Thomas about supporting that anti-liberty candidate, but after the newer revelations, I asked if he was willing to reconsider his trump support and pledged vote and how he felt after finding out that he and hillary were supporting the same person.

    He brushed it aside and unfriended. Unfortunate.
    How long were you two friends?

    You really shouldnt break up a long friendship because one person supports Trump.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Don't these seem a bit contradictory?
    No. What I support is "not being executed."

    But if I am to be executed, I hope to be shot rather than hung.

    It is facile to conclude from this that I support "being shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Holy HELL - you cannot be serious. We got our noses rubbed in it by Wilson. Then by Roosevelt II. Then LBJ. Then Nixon. Then Carter. Then Reagan. Then Bush I. Then Der Klinton. Then Bush Part Deux. Then Obammy. And those are only the more easily dredged examples, representing over 100 years of the Man corn-holing the American people, over and over with the same clapped-out old tricks, each successive iteration producing ever wilder success. The average man has learned nothing of value because the truths to which the lessons point are nothing he wishes so much as to consider, much less face, acknowledge, and act against.

    You are expecting the impossible from men whose brains are in a state such that they may be said to have no brains of which to speak.
    Holy HELL - I was talking about those anti-establishmentarian Trump supporters who (rightly) oppose "the Man corn-holing the American people" but who have nevertheless managed to delude themselves into imagining that Trump will somehow achieve all manner of ridiculously grandiose victories over the aforesaid "Man" (such as putting a stop to the aforesaid "corn-holing" - or "draining the swamp" or "bringing the Clintons to justice" or "smashing the establishment" or any other of such absurdities) while often simultaneously declaring that anyone who does not feel the same is nothing but a useful idiot or Hillary shill. My reference to "getting their noses rubbed in it" is to the upcoming salubrious disillusionment (should Trump win) of those particular persons in that particular context.

    I have no idea where you get the idea that I was referring to anyone or anything else. I even provided a link to a post in which I further specified my meaning and purpose. You appear to have dismembered what I said into separate chunks and then to have interpreted each independently from the whole.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Could well be the case. But why then has Russia moved heavy assets including nukes into Kaliningrad, according to reports? That is a LOT of material reality just for the sake of... well, what exactly? Scaring people? Saber rattling? It could be that, but it's a dangerous game in which to engage where misunderstandings and other errors could result in global calamity. Besides, Russia could rattle it sabers in other, far less risky ways, don't you think?
    Kaliningrad Oblast is among the westernmost Russian territory in Europe. Why shouldn't they put some of their nukes there?

    And assuming the reports to which you refer are true - of course it's sabre-rattling. The whole point of sabre-rattling is deterrence. A lack of sabre-rattling would only encourage further belligerence from the US and it's NATO proxies. Given the goings-on in Ukraine and the like, what else should we expect Russia to do? If Russia was ginning up militaristic anti-American sentiment in Mexico, we'd rattle our sabres, too. $#@!, we'd probably be one hell of a lot less restrained and circumspect about it than the Russians have been ...

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    That is precisely my view as well, but then how do we explain what we see? Today I heard that the US has sent Marines to Norway and that Putin has now told Olso that they will be nuked if any more Marines arrive there. Is this all bull$#@! too? Not saying it is or is not. I'm not there, so I do not know beyond that which I hear. But if we are living in an era where it's not just the typically idiotic American statesmen who are speaking as dangerously stupid and ill-bred children, but those of nations such as Russia as well, I'd say we are living right at the edge.

    But one thing I DO know is that my little brother is in the South China sea and is not supposed to be there for reasons I will not divulge publicly. Suffice to say that things must be credibly hot in the region for him to be where he is at this time. He is one of those people the navy calls in when they need extraordinary goals to be met or something major has seriously turned to crap. We are, therefore, concerned.
    I don't understand what any of this (including the alleged Kaliningrad nukes) has to do with anything I said, which was concerned solely with hysterical claims about what Hillary will supposedly do (ZOMG!! WW3!!!1!) merely because she is the Wicked Witch of the West, and not at all with whatever Russia is supposedly doing. (I am also unsure as to how to reason competently concerning vague rumors and mysterious anecdotes.)

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Not sure what you mean by "refusing to ante up". If you mean refusing to vote, I must disagree strongly. I assume that doing less there carries across to other avenues of action and I believe that history will bear me out on this. That is precisely what Theye want - apathy, for that is what most enables them. If you mean something along the lines of mass civil-disobedience, then I would have to agree with you.
    I mean active non-compliance, civil disobedience, uncivil disobedience, etc., etc. (including refusing to vote). What enables Themme is participation in Theire system according to Theire rules (including the most common form of participation: voting).

    Not voting merely because one does not give a $#@! is indeed a manifestation of "apathy" - but it is apathetic, and therefore problematic, because of the "not giving a $#@!" factor, NOT because of the "not voting" factor. (I do not vote precisely because I am NOT apathetic.) However, the voting aspect of the issue is largely symbolic. As a purely practical matter, voting on anything other than the smallest of scales is simply and utterly ineffective and irrelevant. Especially on federal and state levels, the effective difference made by submitting or withholding one's vote is absolutely nil - whether one votes or not, subjective psychic satisfaction is the only thing to be gained.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 11-02-2016 at 11:43 PM.

  34. #30
    This is ridiculous.. Hillary supported Trump in the primary, not in the General.

    Massie didn't support Trump in the primary, he supports him in the General.

    Total opposites.
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