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Thread: Should panhandlers be required to have permits? (not The Onion)

  1. #1

    Should panhandlers be required to have permits? (not The Onion)

    NEW ORLEANS – Some are asking if panhandlers should be required to have permits after an ordinance passed in Slidell, making it illegal to ask for money without registering with authorities.

    If you're driving on Elysian Fields Avenue near I-10 in New Orleans, chances are you'll see one man asking for money. Tuesday he said his name is Robert Davis, but that may not be the case.

    Eyewitness News met him three years ago, in the same spot, but with a different name. Three years ago, said his name was Mike Jones. This could be part of the reason why many people drivers refuse to give their money to panhandlers. Many people just don't know who the people are, or where their money will go.

    In Slidell, city leaders are finalizing a law requiring panhandlers to have a permit. The ordinance in Slidell has already been approved and will go into effect at the end of November.

    "My personal opinion, and the opinion of a lot of my staff, a lot of the people that panhandle do not need to panhandle," Biaggio DiGiovanni, said executive director of Ozanam Inn.

    Ozanam Inn is a homeless shelter in New Orleans offering free meals and beds to the less fortunate. DiGiovanni believes requiring permits to panhandle is a positive thing.

    However, the local chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) believes such a law, is unconstitutional.

    "Requiring people to go to the police to register, that's what people do in totalitarian countries where you have to register your activities with police,” Marjorie Esman, Executive Director of ACLU Louisiana said. “The way to solve it is to fix the economic problems, not to try and make it go away.”

    ...
    http://www.wwltv.com/news/local/shou...mits/341846482
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.



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  3. #2
    Begging Permits have been standard normal in NYC since 1990.

    There are laws in NC, TX, and NJ that I know of as well. Usually city ordinance.


    Would you be more inclined to give to a beggar that has bought a begging permit?
    Would you be inclined to ask a beggar if they have a begging permit before being charitable?

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  4. #3
    Permits aren't going far enough. They should be forced to get a business license. A license that requires 200 hrs. accreditation in pan handling which includes an ethics course. They should also have receipts available so charitable donors can receive a write off. And of course they should report all earnings so that taxes may be applied.

  5. #4

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  6. #5
    I suspect pan handling to be the profession of many people on the net .
    Do something Danke

  7. #6
    No one is safe from the chattering mass of legal thieves, not even hobos.

    Next they will require stray cats to have permits to walk down the street.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Spikender View Post
    No one is safe from the chattering mass of legal thieves, not even hobos.

    Next they will require stray cats to have permits to walk down the street.
    Off topic but this ad cracks me up and your comment made me think of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I suspect pan handling to be the profession of many people on the net .
    Isn't that the whole premise of sites like Go Fund Me?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Off topic but this ad cracks me up and your comment made me think of it.
    That's the most ridiculous thing I've seen all day.

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Suzanimal again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Off topic but this ad cracks me up and your comment made me think of it.

    I remember her from back in my cat days.

  13. #11
    This could be part of the reason why many people [...] refuse to give their money to panhandlers.
    Oh. Well, then - problem solved. (That was easy.)

    Many people just don't know who the people are, or where their money will go.
    So what? Exactly the same thing is true about tax collectors.

    The only difference is that panhandlers (with or without permits) aren't allowed to force you to give them money.

    IOW: Panhandlers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tax collectors

    (But I bet the city fathers of Slidell don't have any beef with the latter ...)

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Spikender View Post
    No one is safe from the chattering mass of legal thieves, not even hobos.

    Next they will require stray cats to have permits to walk down the street.
    I think that is required in some localities .
    Do something Danke

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Oh. Well, then - problem solved. (That was easy.)



    So what? Exactly the same thing is true about tax collectors.

    The only difference is that panhandlers (with or without permits) aren't allowed to force you to give them money.

    IOW: Panhandlers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tax collectors

    (But I bet the city fathers of Slidell don't have any beef with the latter ...)
    Great Grandma had a sign up that said" No Organ Grinders or Tinkers taken in " at the Bed & Breakfast . I still have the sign . She did not even bother with Revenuers , they all already knew not to come to the door , they did not rate mention on the sign .
    Do something Danke

  16. #14
    Government gives the other beggars in their mega churches a permit and they make millions so those are these people's role models.
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Isn't that the whole premise of sites like Go Fund Me?
    I should get one of those going for my next African Safari with Danke . If we put up a pic of Danke people will give .
    Do something Danke

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I should get one of those going for my next African Safari with Danke . If we put up a pic of Danke people will give .
    I ain't going on no Safari with an Injun. Get that through your thick skull.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron Paul know some weird people...



    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    I ain't going on no Safari with an Injun. Get that through your thick skull.
    You do not have to come along , I just plan to use you to further interest for my trip . I learned alot when I worked for the govt. LOL , maybe UWDude will take you .
    Last edited by oyarde; 10-27-2016 at 02:00 PM.
    Do something Danke

  21. #18

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  22. #19

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    Would you be inclined to ask a beggar if they have a begging permit before being charitable?
    Charitable? More like stupid.

  24. #21
    There should be no pan-handling. Period.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    There should be no pan-handling. Period.
    what if they play the harmonica?

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    what if they play the harmonica?
    Well then they're offering a service.

    Doesn't mean the owners of the street/sidewalk should allow him to do it there.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I think that is required in some localities .
    They should just go ahead and start looking for the fathers of some of these stray cats to extract child support.

    It's the right thing to do. They can pay in catnip or string.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    what if they play the harmonica?
    I will make a spot for them and they can split with me to pay rent .
    Do something Danke

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Well then they're offering a service.
    simply saying thank you is providing a service; value is subjective

    Doesn't mean the owners of the street/sidewalk should allow him to do it there.
    if we dismiss the notion of public road as illegitimate, which I support...

    assuming the road was private, why shouldn't they? perhaps the owner supports the beggars cause.

    ala:

    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I will make a spot for them and they can split with me to pay rent .

    assuming the road was common, who is to stop him?

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  31. #27
    What a lovely move by NO back towards liberty.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "It’s just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill people’s fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Oh. Well, then - problem solved. (That was easy.)



    So what? Exactly the same thing is true about tax collectors.

    The only difference is that panhandlers (with or without permits) aren't allowed to force you to give them money.

    IOW: Panhandlers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tax collectors

    (But I bet the city fathers of Slidell don't have any beef with the latter ...)
    I would say, I have a pretty good idea were my money's going when I give it to a wineo. Can't say as much for a tax collector..
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    simply saying thank you is providing a service
    No it's not. (Obviously! Don't play dumb. It's unbecoming.)


    perhaps the owner supports the beggars cause.
    And he shouldn't. That is my whole point. It was only one sentence, Pres. It wasn't, and isn't, at all complicated. Let's repeat:

    • Society shouldn't tolerate beggars.

    • And yes, society should also obviously be voluntarist and agorist and blah blah blah.

    Those two injunctions of mine are not incompatible.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    No it's not. (Obviously! Don't play dumb. It's unbecoming.)
    no it absolutely is.

    what you consider a valuable consideration for your funds and what someone else considers a valuable consideration will never be the same because valuation is ENTIRELY subjective.

    "thank you" can be valueless or "thank you" can be worth a million dollars; likewise for '$#@! you'

    last week I sold suz's pink crocks
    list price was $124.69 buy it now
    the buyer paid OVER list for "permission" to lick them clean upon arrival

    And he shouldn't. That is my whole point. It was only one sentence, Pres. It wasn't, and isn't, at all complicated. Let's repeat:

    • Society shouldn't tolerate beggars.

    how is a beggar qualitatively different from a salesman?
    is not one man's trash another's treasure?
    Last edited by presence; 10-28-2016 at 09:11 AM.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


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