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Thread: Trumps seeing the Light

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    He ran for president in 2012.
    I do remember. I dismissed Trump. Why don't you post with your real account? Why smurfing? CPUd?
    When Trump gained Traction in the Polls in summer 2015. Ron Paul should have apologized to Trump for snubbing him. Everyone is entitled to his opinion. Ron Paul finds it really disturbing the media is attacking Trump. But Ron Paul had his hands tied. His son was running his own presidential campaign and utterly failed because what? Rand played the establishment card. Cruz and Trump prevailed because they were anti establishment.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse James View Post
    he wants Ron to endorse Trump.
    Clearly that will I'll never happen.

    There are two types of RON Paul people. Those that "like" him. And those that "understand" him.
    Those of us that UNDERSTAND him would NEVER support THUMP.

    Maybe some need a refresher:

    Ron Paul's 2002 Predictions All Come True

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifJG_oFFDK0

    Congressman Ron Paul's Farewell Speech to Congress

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q03cWio-zjk

    Ron Paul: What If

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIaqmF5IXV4

    RON PAUL... banned interview.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWzV...&nohtml5=False

    dont just "like" what he says is these videos. UNDERSTAND it.

    One more non-Paul for the fun of it
    Judge Napolitano's 'What if...'

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCGHPuuo894



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    If its creaks like a frog, it probably is a frog



    Tell me. All that political capital Ron Paul accumulated over the years. He lost it when quitting the GOP. I am enraged at him.. feels like yelling at him while he was caving to the GOP corrupted ways. Trump IS new to politics. He learns like we were red pilled one at a time.
    What rambling nonsense was that?
    I am the spoon.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    If Rand doesn't come out in support of Trump,

    Rand can kiss his career good bye. It is too easy to come out when the sun shines, good weather calculating politician.

    How can ANYBODY accept what Hillary Campaign did??????? It is an OUTRAGE!!!! And the press is silent. Every single repubs should be talking about the Okeefe video in support of Trump.
    $#@! Trump. Rand better not endorse him, if he has any shred of respect for liberty left.
    I am the spoon.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by John F Kennedy III View Post
    What rambling nonsense was that?
    I don't know, but what ever he's smoking stay away from it.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    for any crooked politician wanting to get elected president in 4 years
    Is English your first language?
    I am the spoon.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I understand your points.

    But honestly can you blame me for not supporting Ron Paul before 2008?

    It is my right to be angry with Ron Paul and the way he does/did politics. Just like I am angry at Trump was Trump acts stupid.
    $#@! off you authoritarian piece of $#@!.
    I am the spoon.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    When Trump gained Traction in the Polls in summer 2015. Ron Paul should have apologized to Trump for snubbing him.
    What happened to the guy who just a minute ago said he liked how Ron Paul wasn't calculating?

  11. #39


    It's election season. They want votes.

    https://youtu.be/jsvf1HU0KHM


    Donald Trump On The Record:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-On-The-Record

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Let's be fair. Trump was in New York raising a family and working. He wasn't in politics then.
    I thought he was busy greasing the worst of the worst liberal politicians because he needed them to run his business. And yes, he was "busy" raising 3 sets of families, we know from the man that while he was dealing with the likes of Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and the Clintons, he was busy cheating on his first wife with his 2nd wife then divorcing 2nd wife and then trying and failing to cheat on his newly married 3rd wife while pregnant with a married woman.

    Talk about a man who has his priorities straight. The Trump apologists on this thread should be ashamed of themselves if they had any respect for themselves



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  14. #41

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    What happened to the guy who just a minute ago said he liked how Ron Paul wasn't calculating?
    Hi CPU.

    It is like the difference of meaning between nice and nice. There is calculating and there is calculating

    I am done arguing with Hillary's CTR

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Did you make that? That is cool.

  17. #44
    Please stop making these threads....
    Support Justin Amash for Congress
    Michigan Congressional District 3

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    For a start, he should have sharpen his message. That implies a cold hard analysis of WHY people were supporting him in 2008? For the $#@!ing gold standard? NO. Because of Ron Paul's middle finger to Rudy Guiliani in May 2007. It all started from there. He was the ONLY one standing up to GOP corruption.

    Ron Paul never took the mainstream propaganda head on. It wasn't in his DNA, unlike Trump. But that's OK. Nobody is perfect.
    Since RP didn't have the energy to fight the establishment machine in the spotlight of a presidential election inside a major political party, he had to find a Champion to do it for him. Ron Paul himself said that going 3rd party was a waste of time. And he was and he IS STILL $#@!ing right about it.

    Now that the voters have found themselves a champion to fight the establishment. What did Ron Paul do? He squandered his chances to positively influence the platform. $#@!ING LAME!!!!!!! I am $#@!ing angry writing those lines. It is like those little nit wits thinking their intellectual superiority is their highest virtue.. Not a single compromise. And here I was not even asking Ron Paul to $#@!ing compromise!!!! NO!!! I asked Ron Paul to say publicly Trump is wrong about Torture. Why is the media attacking Trump? Why didn't Ron Paul say: It reminds me when I was running in 2008!! Ron Paul didn't act like a smart man. He didn't play his hand at all!!! Publicly educate Trump about the constitution. It goes on and on and on. $#@!. WHAT A WASTE OF TIME.All he did was a low jab at Trump for no gain. What a loser. Wasn't he supposed to stay above the fray. His son's political ambitions got the better of him.
    In less angry terms, Ron Paul brought the principle in 2008 and 2012, which downloaded a third of what was needed to defeat the anti-liberty establishment. But it was nonetheless an incomplete download. The next step was to actively confront and defeat that establishment, while building a winning coalition of voters outside the liberty base. This would have completed the download.

    Other than backing Rand's ineffective attempts to do so, Ron Paul did not do this. After Rand's campaign folded, Ron should have considered himself unshackled, and then acted as an elder guide and triangulated the outsider movement, to help guide Trump in a more consistent liberty direction. He would have remained principled this way, while ceding the "ugly work" of establishment busting and coalition building to Trump. But by not supporting these strategic advances at all, Paul did indeed squander much of his capital.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Trump is just as bad as Clinton.
    While I'm responding to your comment, I'm not directing this at you specifically.

    I haven't been too active here lately due to life getting in the way, but I have lurked and noticed some in-fighting regarding brazen support of Trump. Frankly, I think it's B.S. that anyone here would think that Trump is just as bad as Clinton. Trump is no Ron Paul by any stretch of the imagination, and plenty of Trump's stances are appalling (Stop and Frisk, desire to execute Snowden, the Great Wall of America, fill in the blank, etc.), but he does have some redeeming qualities such as wanting to lower taxes, get rid of Obamacare, and not wanting to commit an act of war against mother-effing Russia. There is no way he is worse than the worst criminal, political family in the business. Don't mistake this for an endorsement of Trump; regardless of who wins the election, America loses, as usual. But there are still degrees of loss.

    Sometimes I get the impression that people go out of their way to criticize a Republican more in order to virtue signal their pure libertarian ideology, and so they're not mistaken as a Democrat-hating Republican. The Republicans are awful, but it's okay to concede when a Democrat is worse; you're not going to suddenly change into Dick Cheney. While, generally speaking, I believe that the Republicans and Democrats are two wings of the same carrion vulture, the people within the parties aren't exactly the same. Republican voters are much, much, much more friendly to libertarian ideas than are Democrat voters. There's a reason that Ron and Rand run as Republicans, after all. For instance, I can talk to a typical Republican about reducing military spending and scaling back our empire without being called every name in the book. It's just been my experience that Democrats tend to be nastier in their opposition to ideas that conflict with their own.

    We've been kicked in the teeth, and liberty is dead, but there are some good things that may come from the election campaigning. We currently have Republicans who oppose war against Russia (even if only for red team, blue team reasons), which can provide in-roads to spreading the idea of non-interventionism while the iron is still hot. We have Republicans who praise Julian Assange (even if only for read team, blue team reasons), which is a step in the right direction, and can help arguing about transparency over "national security" for the law-and-order types. Now is the time to try to shuffle the ideological deck. We are losing, bigly, but the game isn't over; it's never over.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give and gave credit where credit is due. Ron Paul did great things. But lost most of his political capital as I explained in another politically incorrect [for this board] post. Refer to that post. It is like the same again with any groups. We are not allowed to criticize the God Ron Paul. Give me some slack. Trump has many failings and I will hold him accountable.
    I'm not sure you know this but the man retired. He's in his 80's now. Did you really want to subject him to dying while still holding office in that den of vipers?

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
    While I'm responding to your comment, I'm not directing this at you specifically.

    I haven't been too active here lately due to life getting in the way, but I have lurked and noticed some in-fighting regarding brazen support of Trump. Frankly, I think it's B.S. that anyone here would think that Trump is just as bad as Clinton. Trump is no Ron Paul by any stretch of the imagination, and plenty of Trump's stances are appalling (Stop and Frisk, desire to execute Snowden, the Great Wall of America, fill in the blank, etc.), but he does have some redeeming qualities such as wanting to lower taxes, get rid of Obamacare, and not wanting to commit an act of war against mother-effing Russia. There is no way he is worse than the worst criminal, political family in the business. Don't mistake this for an endorsement of Trump; regardless of who wins the election, America loses, as usual. But there are still degrees of loss.

    Sometimes I get the impression that people go out of their way to criticize a Republican more in order to virtue signal their pure libertarian ideology, and so they're not mistaken as a Democrat-hating Republican. The Republicans are awful, but it's okay to concede when a Democrat is worse; you're not going to suddenly change into Dick Cheney. While, generally speaking, I believe that the Republicans and Democrats are two wings of the same carrion vulture, the people within the parties aren't exactly the same. Republican voters are much, much, much more friendly to libertarian ideas than are Democrat voters. There's a reason that Ron and Rand run as Republicans, after all. For instance, I can talk to a typical Republican about reducing military spending and scaling back our empire without being called every name in the book. It's just been my experience that Democrats tend to be nastier in their opposition to ideas that conflict with their own.

    We've been kicked in the teeth, and liberty is dead, but there are some good things that may come from the election campaigning. We currently have Republicans who oppose war against Russia (even if only for red team, blue team reasons), which can provide in-roads to spreading the idea of non-interventionism while the iron is still hot. We have Republicans who praise Julian Assange (even if only for read team, blue team reasons), which is a step in the right direction, and can help arguing about transparency over "national security" for the law-and-order types. Now is the time to try to shuffle the ideological deck. We are losing, bigly, but the game isn't over; it's never over.
    It's not bull$#@! it's the truth. Trump has conducted himself in his business and personal life just as poorly as the Clintons have. There is no reason to doubt that if he had political power, he would abuse it just as much as the Clintons have.

    They are both criminal scum, one no better than the other.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse James View Post
    he wants Ron to endorse Trump.
    So do I.

    This election is a straight-up referendum on the Rule of Law.

    Anyone who honors that concept is morally obliged to do everything within their power to make sure Hillary Clinton does not become President.

    Ron shames himself by finding no difference between the calculated and systematic criminality of the Clinton crime family and the human flaws of Trump, as do those who agree.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post

    Now that the voters have found themselves a champion to fight the establishment. What did Ron Paul do? He squandered his chances to positively influence the platform. $#@!ING LAME!!!!!!! I am $#@!ing angry writing those lines. It is like those little nit wits thinking their intellectual superiority is their highest virtue.. Not a single compromise. And here I was not even asking Ron Paul to $#@!ing compromise!!!! NO!!! I asked Ron Paul to say publicly Trump is wrong about Torture. Why is the media attacking Trump? Why didn't Ron Paul say: It reminds me when I was running in 2008!! Ron Paul didn't act like a smart man. He didn't play his hand at all!!! Publicly educate Trump about the constitution. It goes on and on and on. $#@!. WHAT A WASTE OF TIME.All he did was a low jab at Trump for no gain. What a loser. Wasn't he supposed to stay above the fray. His son's political ambitions got the better of him.
    Did Ron miss a chance to influence Hillary's platform? If your answer is "no", you have no reason to be angry. Ron has as much in common with Trump as he does Clinton. Trump is NOT FIGHTING THE ESTABLISHMENT. He is fighting for himself and himself only. If you vote for him you symbolically rebuke nearly every principle Ron stood for.

    You pointed out that Ron got a lot of support for his smackdown of Rudy and US foreign policy. You're right. 100% right. AND RUDY IS TRUMP'S CLOSEST ADVISER! So you liked Ron for smacking down Rudy, and now you like Trump who hold essentially the same views as Rudy. Plus, the topic Ron owned Rudy on was blowback, 9/11, and Iraq. Trump is on the polar opposite side on these issues. He was for Iraq, Libya, intervention in Syria, etc, before he was against them. Plus, listen to his rhetoric; is that how a non interventionist talks?

    Trump has fooled you. Just because media heads are shocked by his behavior doesn't mean he's 'anti establishment'. The media hated Bush II, too.

    EDIT: Ron has said as much and is 100% correct: “In some places, Trump is worse than the establishment. He says he loves torture! Trump is very conventional. He has nothing new when it comes to serious ideas.”
    The more prohibitions you have,
    the less virtuous people will be.
    The more weapons you have,
    the less secure people will be.
    The more subsidies you have,
    the less self-reliant people will be.

    Therefore the Master says:
    I let go of the law,
    and people become honest.
    I let go of economics,
    and people become prosperous.
    I let go of religion,
    and people become serene.
    I let go of all desire for the common good,
    and the good becomes common as grass.

    -Tao Te Ching, Section 57

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by scm View Post
    One more non-Paul for the fun of it
    Judge Napolitano's 'What if...'

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCGHPuuo894
    ICYMI


    What if the most remarkable aspect of this presidential election is not how much the two principal candidates disagree with each other but how much they actually agree?

    What if they are both statists? What if they both believe that the government's first duty is to take care of itself? What if they both believe in the primacy of the state over the individual?

    What if, in clashes between the state and individuals, they both would use the power of the state to trample the rights of individuals?

    What if the first priority of both is not to decrease the size and scope of government but to expand it? What if they both believe that the federal government may lawfully and constitutionally right any wrong, tax any behavior and regulate any event? What if they both want to add a few thousand new employees to the federal payroll, give them badges and guns and black shirts, and engage them as federal police to insulate the federal government further from the people and the states?

    What if, when James Madison wrote the Constitution, he took great pains to reserve powers to the people and the states that were not delegated away to the feds? What if both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump couldn't care less about that?

    What if both of them reject the Madisonian principle that the federal government is limited in scope to the 16 unique and discrete powers given to it by the Constitution? What if they even reject the corollary to that principle, which is that the balance of governmental powers — those not delegated by the Constitution to the feds — resides in the states? What if they both reject the Madisonian principle that in areas of governmental power retained by the states, the states should be free from federal interference?

    What if this principle of a limited federal government depends upon the principle of natural rights — areas of human behavior and choice stemming from our humanity and immune from government interference? What if the Declaration of Independence and the Ninth Amendment to the Constitution define our natural rights as inalienable? What if both Trump and Clinton reject that? What if she believes in killing innocents by drone and he believes in torturing innocents at Gitmo?

    What if both Clinton and Trump accept the principle that the federal government can address any problem for which there is a national political consensus? What if this idea — championed by Woodrow Wilson, who hated the values of Madison — is the opposite of what the Framers wrote and intended?

    What if this Wilsonian principle has unleashed the federal government to regulate nearly all aspects of personal behavior and to enhance immeasurably the powers of an unelected, unseen, and unaccountable federal bureaucracy, which never seems to shrink or change?

    What if both Trump and Clinton embrace the idea that federal power, rather than being limited by the Constitution, is limited only by what the feds can't get away with politically? What if this concept was expressly rejected by the Framers but both Trump and Clinton don't care? What if neither of them believes that a limited federal government must reside and remain within the confines of the Constitution?

    What if Trump wants the police to be able to stop anyone they wish based on just a hunch that the person is armed or possessing contraband? What if the Fourth Amendment — which requires the police to have individual articulable suspicion, not just hunches and not judgments based on race, in order to stop a person — was expressly written to prohibit just what Trump wants? What if Trump doesn't care because he prefers votes to constitutional fidelity?

    What if Clinton wants free higher education for all in America who go to community colleges, all of which are government-owned? What if the Constitution does not delegate regulatory or spending authority over education to the feds? What if there is no such thing as "free" college? What if someone somewhere will need to pay for it?

    What if all federal revenue is already committed to wealth transfers (Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, welfare), interest payments on the federal government's debt (now north of $400 billion annually), and the Pentagon (which spends crazily so its budget won't be reduced in the future)? What if the Clinton "free" college deal would mean the feds would need to tax more or borrow more or both?

    What if more taxation means less money for the productive aspects of society? What if more borrowing produces a decrease in the value of what you already own? What if a dollar spent by the feds produces far less wealth — jobs, income, productivity — than a dollar invested in the private sector? What if Clinton doesn't care because she prefers votes to economic productivity?

    What if both Trump and Clinton believe they can use the federal government to bribe the poor with handouts, the middle class with tax breaks, the rich with bailouts and write-offs, and the states with block grants? What if Trump himself has benefited enormously from federal write-offs available only to the very rich?

    What if neither talks about personal liberty in a free society? What if they both talk about the government's duty to keep us safe? What if neither talks about the government's first duty, which is to keep us free? What if neither believes that the government works for us? What if they both really believe that we work for the government?
    What if Mark Twain was right when he said that the reason we get to vote is it doesn't make much difference?

    COPYRIGHT 2016 ANDREW P. NAPOLITANO|

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse James View Post
    Ron Paul > Trump
    Libertarianism > Authoritarianism
    Principle > Rhetoric
    I can simplify the equation even further for you.

    Trump > Hillary's Nuclear War

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
    Republican voters are much, much, much more friendly to libertarian ideas than are Democrat voters.
    Thank you for stating the obvious!

    Seriously, thank you! The obvious does need to be stated sometimes.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
    he does have some redeeming qualities such as wanting to lower taxes, get rid of Obamacare, and not wanting to commit an act of war against mother-effing Russia. There is no way he is worse than the worst criminal, political family in the business.
    There have been a number of posts made claiming Trump's supposed status as the noninterventionist option. The fact remains that of all of the candidates, only one has stated their intention to utilize American forces on the ground in a foreign country. That would be Trump.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse James View Post
    he wants Ron to endorse Trump.
    Ron Paul has not endorsed a Republican Presidential nominee in 35 years. The nominee being his son is the only way that is ever going to change, and even then Ron will probably have to think about it, lol.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post

    This election is a straight-up referendum on the Rule of Law.
    That's a damn good meme. I borrowed it

    https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/...rendum_on_the/



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  32. #57
    Trump represents the opposite of what Ron represented.

    Socialism instead of free markets; the police-state instead of the Bill of Rights; global warmongering instead of non-intervention.

    That's as far as the analysis needs to go.

    Criticizing Ron for not being as politically successful as Trump is retarded.

    ...might as well praise Stalin, who was much more politically successful than either of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse James View Post
    he wants Ron to endorse Trump.
    He's going to be disappointed.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 10-18-2016 at 12:30 PM.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulMall View Post
    Ron Paul has not endorsed a Republican Presidential nominee in 35 years. The nominee being his son is the only way that is ever going to change, and even then Ron will probably have to think about it, lol.
    Your right, Ron Paul endorsed his son for president when he was still campaigning for the republican nomination, he wouldn't wait until he is the nominee. Ron Paul votes on principle not party line.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Trump represents the opposite of what Ron represented.

    Socialism instead of free markets; the police-state instead of the Bill of Rights; global warmongering instead of non-intervention.

    That's as far as the analysis needs to go.

    Criticizing Ron for not being as politically successful as Trump is retarded.

    ...might as well praise Stalin, who was much more politically successful than either of them.
    The point is to achieve political success for the liberty movement, not to one-dimensionally deify the Pauls, while demonizing others. The total formula is to 1) run candidates with coherent liberty principles, who 2) actively confront and defeat that establishment, while 3) building a winning coalition of voters outside the liberty base. Paul had point one, Trump points two and three, while being pro-liberty on several major fronts.

    Those three points have to be addressed going forward, whether the candidate is Paul, Trump, or somebody else, in order for the liberty candidate to win. So criticizing Ron for not being as politically successful as Trump remains an ESSENTIAL part of winning future elections, because having the right positions alone has been proven to be inadequate without also effectively executing the strategic aspects. Dismissing the latter, by simplistically characterizing Trump's positions, is the type of non-analysis that gets us nowhere.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    The point is to achieve political success for the liberty movement
    That's correct.

    not to one-dimensionally deify the Pauls, while demonizing others.
    I wasn't deifying Ron.

    I was making a factually accurate comparison between Ron's policies and Trump's.

    The total formula is to 1) run candidates with coherent liberty principles, who 2) actively confront and defeat that establishment, while 3) building a winning coalition of voters outside the liberty base. Paul had point one, Trump points two and three, while being pro-liberty on several major fronts.
    A. Trump is not pro-liberty on any front.

    B. There is no value whatsoever in satisfying conditions #2 and #3 without satisfying condition #1.

    So criticizing Ron for not being as politically successful as Trump remains an ESSENTIAL part of winning future elections, because having the right positions alone has been proven to be inadequate without also effectively executing the strategic aspects. Dismissing the latter, by simplistically characterizing Trump's positions, is the type of non-analysis that gets us nowhere.
    It's one thing to observe Trump's tactics and consider how we might use them for our purposes.

    That's fine.

    It's another thing to support Trump because of his successful tactics.

    That's retarded.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 10-18-2016 at 02:32 PM.

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