Noise rights

[Jesse James]

Where is the line drawn for the freedom of speech, in regards to sound?

[euphemia]

Why do you ask?

[oyarde]

I tell Mrs . O , " Quiet , back to work " all the time.

[Zippyjuan]

Can I play my music at "eleven" any time of the day or night right next door to you?

[Jesse James]

Why do you ask?

I started thinking about it in class today. Professor was discussing the Bill of Rights and of course while I was thinking about how they are bull$#@! and violated daily, he said something about how we can yell or scream but we can't loot stores and what not. I started thinking, in a libertarian society could you really, say, stand outside your neighbors property and as long as you aren't on there property, can you seriously scream "******" at him all night while he's trying to sleep?

[Jesse James]

I tell Mrs . O , " Quiet , back to work " all the time.

of course a private property owner can control what is said on his property but what about if it's heard on his property? what if you are blasting music and your neighbor can't sleep?

[euphemia]

I started thinking about it in class today. Professor was discussing the Bill of Rights and of course while I was thinking about how they are bull$#@! and violated daily, he said something about how we can yell or scream but we can't loot stores and what not. I started thinking, in a libertarian society could you really, say, stand outside your neighbors property and as long as you aren't on there property, can you seriously scream "******" at him all night while he's trying to sleep?

Only if you consider he has a right to stand right in front of you, on his own property and blow and airhorn right in your ear.

[fisharmor]

Why does your neighbor not have the right to make noise? If you don't have the right to make noise then you don't have much in the way of rights.

I recognize that this isn't about rights though. In the mind of the person putting up with the party next door, that person making the noise doesn't have any rights.
So let's think about this outside of rights.

If your neighbor is making noise and you call the cops without even mentioning it, you're the one in the wrong.
If your neighbor is making noise and you talk to him and he stops, or you come to an agreement about it, then welcome to the way things work when people are left to sort things out on their own.
If your neighbor won't come to an agreement with you, and is actively being a dick to a person living right next door, how often does that happen, really?

Here's an anecdotal story... friend of mine used to live in NJ, and had a guy in the apartment downstairs get into regular screaming fits about how he was going to come up there and rape his joo girlfriend who was living with him.
So my friend got his permit and bought a 40 cal.
He was showing it to the super who was also into guns. Super asked why he got a 40.
He says, 40 will shoot through floors.
Super makes a crack about "Oh you're gonna take care of that nonsense downstairs, huh?" and points his finger downward.
So my friend corrects him and says "No, his bed is over there" and points in a different direction.
It was very shortly after that the "rape your joo girlfriend" stuff came to a permanent stop. And no cops or rights or laws were involved.

[Zippyjuan]

What if you can't come to an agreement?

[Jesse James]

it seems a crazy person could build a loudspeaker and just annoy the $#@! out of everybody within miles of him if he wanted to. I can think of multiple scenarios why somebody would do that. seems it could be a problem in a voluntaryist society.

[Jesse James]

What if you can't come to an agreement?

I guess the guy with the loudspeaker is going to have lots of unsettled land around

[Zippyjuan]

So you (or other of his neighbors) would be wiling to surrender your property rights so he can have his noise rights.

I think this is the main issue of the question -which or who's rights should prevail? Your right to peacefully enjoy your property or your neighbor's right to do whatever he wants to do on his property?

[Brian4Liberty]

If a tree falls in the forest but nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

[euphemia]

So you (or other of his neighbors) would be wiling to surrender your property rights so he can have his noise rights.

I think this is the main issue of the question -which or who's rights should prevail? Your right to peacefully enjoy your property or your neighbor's right to do whatever he wants to do on his property?

Freedom and rights are not about doing what you want. They are about not having to ask the government for permission to life, liberty and the pursuit of property.

With that said, my right to own property does not give me the right to create a public nuisance. There are some real duds in the world who want silence every minute and think kids should never been seen or heard. They are wrong and should not create a public nuisance with their constant complaining.

I'm not sure what you do about the loudspeaker. I don't really know people who do that.

[Zippyjuan]

So you do not have the right to do whatever you want to on your own property. Rights are limited. Is that because it may have a negative impact on somebody else? Would that apply to say smoking? If I smoke and it drifts over to your place and you either don't like smoke or maybe even are allergic to it, can you deny me the right to smoke on my own property? What other sorts of activities can be limited for the same reason? Does the offended person have the right to not be offended and that over-rules all other rights?

[Origanalist]

Freedom and rights are not about doing what you want. They are about not having to ask the government for permission to life, liberty and the pursuit of property.

With that said, my right to own property does not give me the right to create a public nuisance. There are some real duds in the world who want silence every minute and think kids should never been seen or heard. They are wrong and should not create a public nuisance with their constant complaining.

I'm not sure what you do about the loudspeaker. I don't really know people who do that.

[Danke]

The worst is when I'm up north at the lake trying to get some shut eye and these natives are dancing around a bonfire.

Cops always tell me there is nothing they can do. Even though I told them I suspect heavy peyote usage.

[timosman]

The worst is when I'm up north at the lake trying to get some shut eye and these natives are dancing around a bonfire.

Cops always telll me there is nothing they can do.

It sounds like this place needs to be gentrified.

[Schifference]

it seems a crazy person could build a loudspeaker and just annoy the $#@! out of everybody within miles of him if he wanted to. I can think of multiple scenarios why somebody would do that. seems it could be a problem in a voluntaryist society.

What about church bells that go off every fifteen minutes 24 seven?
Are all peoples biological clocks set the same? Who decided that every person should sleep when it is dark? Some people cannot sleep at night. Should they be strapped into bed and not allowed to be productive on their own property?

[otherone]

What's being missed is a$$holes exist whether in a libertarian society or an authoritarian one.

[Jesse James]

What about church bells that go off every fifteen minutes 24 seven?
Are all peoples biological clocks set the same? Who decided that every person should sleep when it is dark? Some people cannot sleep at night. Should they be strapped into bed and not allowed to be productive on their own property?

I don't know any bells that go off every 15 minutes, but yes a church bell is just the same. Whether or not it's at night or during the day wasn't my point, I was just saying that that would likely be the time when the majority would complain. During the day people may be less likely to complain about that.

Not being productive and not playing a speaker that disrupts people is different.

[Jesse James]

What's being missed is a$$holes exist whether in a libertarian society or an authoritarian one.

yes, but in an authoritarian society you can be an authoritarian, but in a libertarian society you just have to do deal with it.

[Jesse James]

What if I built some speakers that made it impossible for my neighbors to talk, to the point where they couldn't even tell me to turn it down?

[John F Kennedy III]

I started thinking about it in class today. Professor was discussing the Bill of Rights and of course while I was thinking about how they are bull$#@! and violated daily, he said something about how we can yell or scream but we can't loot stores and what not. I started thinking, in a libertarian society could you really, say, stand outside your neighbors property and as long as you aren't on there property, can you seriously scream "******" at him all night while he's trying to sleep?

If someone was deliberately being a dickbag purposely making noise to annoy me I'd stomp the $#@! out of him and not care if it was considered libertarian or not.

[euphemia]

So you do not have the right to do whatever you want to on your own property. Rights are limited. Is that because it may have a negative impact on somebody else? Would that apply to say smoking? If I smoke and it drifts over to your place and you either don't like smoke or maybe even are allergic to it, can you deny me the right to smoke on my own property? What other sorts of activities can be limited for the same reason? Does the offended person have the right to not be offended and that over-rules all other rights?

I have neighbors who smoke. Some of them are forced to go outside to smoke. Outside air is what it is. I'm highly allergic to tobacco in every form but there is only so much I can do. I keep my living space clean and allergy compatible and that's what I am responsible to do. Neighbors are all hardworking people. They can do what they want. I get along with all my neighbors.

The OP was about noise, not smoke.

[oyarde]

of course a private property owner can control what is said on his property but what about if it's heard on his property? what if you are blasting music and your neighbor can't sleep?

I have no real neighbors .

[oyarde]

The worst is when I'm up north at the lake trying to get some shut eye and these natives are dancing around a bonfire.

Cops always tell me there is nothing they can do. Even though I told them I suspect heavy peyote usage.

It is only once in a Blue Moon .

[Schifference]

I once had a neighbor that would complain if my dog was outside for 5 minutes. They were crazy! Dog was inside all day and only went out to do her business. There are ordinances against dogs continually barking, not that my dog did that, but you can make pretty much any type of noise in that neighborhood until 10 or 11pm. I thought of making a recording of a dog or dogs barking and playing it non-stop via stereo during legitimate hours.

[Root]

Muh noise!

[GunnyFreedom]

In a free society, if you had a neighbor that wouldn't stop polluting the area with noise, you build a subwoofer the size of a garage door and rattle that son of a witch until he stops.