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Thread: NYC Cop says, in new documentary film: "Libertarians are a danger to society".

  1. #1

    Exclamation NYC Cop says, in new documentary film: "Libertarians are a danger to society".

    Do Not Resist: new film shows how US police have become an occupying army

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...militarization

    Craig Atkinson’s documentary about police militarization, Do Not Resist, is filled with unsettling scenes like the one where a Swat team destroys a family’s home during a drug raid that nets small amounts of loose marijuana. But the most disturbing scene transpires during the relative placidity of a seminar when a hugely successful lecturer tells a room full of police officers: “We are at war and you are the frontline.

    “What do you fight violence with? Superior violence. Righteous violence. Violence is your tool … You are men and women of violence.”

    The speaker, Dave Grossman, is a retired army lieutenant colonel with a packed national speaking schedule. In the film, Grossman also promulgates the notion that one perk of violent encounters is that police often say that afterwards they have the best sex of their lives, which Atkinson, in an interview, sees as parallel to promising virgins to a suicide bomber.

    “I wanted to show how ubiquitous his philosophy is and how it has been adopted throughout law enforcement,” says Atkinson, whose movie won best documentary feature at the Tribeca Film Festival. It opens in New York on Friday and then gradually rolls out. (Grossman refused to be interviewed for this story.) “I don’t think they should be incentivizing law enforcement to commit violence. This is a rape and pillage philosophy versus a protect and serve philosophy.”

    Justin Hansford, an assistant professor at St Louis University school of law, says this mentality has long existed but that the 9/11 attacks created a new level of fear among citizens and police and timidity among the politicians who should be preventing this escalation. “It’s a jambalaya of all the wrong ingredients,” he says.

    The seemingly endless police killings – from Ferguson to Tulsa and Charlotte – are directly linked to this issue, Hansford and Atkinson say.

    “When so many people are being killed you need to look at why so many people in law enforcement are imbued with fear and are trigger happy,” Atkinson says. “I would love to open the debate of how we’re training our officers.”

    Peter Kraska, the chair at the Eastern Kentucky University’s school of justice studies says this mindset has hardened in many police departments. “There has been a major shift so the culture of policing is now split and there is a huge component acting in an irrational manner and viewing themselves in this more militaristic way.”

    Atkinson started making the film because he felt the hunt for the Boston marathon bombers was chaotic and heavy-handed in its use of military equipment but his interest started closer to home. His father was an officer in a city near Detroit and a longtime Swat team member and Atkinson was shocked to learn how the Swat mission had gradually changed.



    Swat deployments are also occurring at a greater rate than ever. Atkinson’s film cites statistics: in 1980 there were 3,000 Swat deployments but by 2005 that number had climbed to 45,000. Estimates place current annual numbers between 50,000 and 80,000.

    Much of that growth stems from a distorted twist on the famous Field of Dreams quotation: if you arm them they will raid. The federal government has been mindlessly handing over everything from bayonets to armored vehicles to police departments, inadvertently creating what may feel like an occupying military force: since 1997, the Pentagon’s surplus giveaways have been worth more than $4bn, while the Department of Homeland Security has provided millions more in grants.

    “I’m not against the hardware,” Atkinson says and Hansford echoes the belief that Swat teams and armored vehicles are necessary for the rare instances of acts of terrorism. However, that’s not how they’re used.

    “Eighty percent of Swat teams’ missions are now for minor offenses, usually drugs, and nothing to do with their vital and original function,” says Pete Kraska, the chair of graduate studies and research in the school of justice studies at Eastern Kentucky University.

    “There’s mission creep,” Kraska says, adding that using machine guns for civilian protest or raiding people’s homes at 4am over minor, non-violent activities “is manufacturing dangerous situations”.

    Hansford says this “complete overkill” is especially galling because “Swat teams are targeting black and brown communities” and do not go into white areas plagued by heroin epidemics with the same aggressive tactics.

    (Bull$#@!. I will pull up a thousand stories of white people being raided and killed and blown up by SWAT. -AF)

    In the film, Swat teams revel in the adrenaline rush of military-style training with heavy weaponry and armored vehicles and one officer justifies it all by citing the need to be ready for Isis, WMDs and “a situation like what they had in Missouri” saying that civil protests warranted tanks and machine guns.

    Atkinson’s movie takes viewers to places they probably never think much about. “We kept restricting ourselves to what we could actually show,” he says.

    There was plenty to show, such as the public meetings in Concord, New Hampshire, about whether to accept a grant worth more than $250,000 for an armored vehicle. A retired colonel who served in Falluja testifies that this is wholly unnecessary while another veteran says it would make Concord live less free. The local council, however, votes 11-4 to bring it on.

    In South Carolina, Atkinson shows a crew that badly damages a home where all they find is some loose weed at the bottom of a bookbag. They arrest the man and then confiscate $1,000 he had for buying landscaping equipment for work. An officer tells the family “it was an extractionary technique and we felt we needed to do it”, and says with a shrug to the camera that drug raids are a 50-50 proposition in terms of finding something worthwhile.

    Atkinson shows that particular raid because he wanted to show how civil asset forfeiture (where the police confiscate goods and money for their own use before a person is even found guilty) has spiraled out of control but adds that he went out on a half-dozen raids around the country and the police never found anything worthwhile. “Do you know the type of ill will generated in these communities?” he says. “It makes the police seem like an occupying force.”

    Eugene O’Donnell, a former New York City police officer and prosecutor who is now a professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, strongly disagrees, saying the genuine risks of terrorism or heavily armed drug dealers justify the behavior. He says seeing something sinister in militarization is “patently absurd” and says liberals, but especially libertarians, simply “don’t believe in police and think it’s all Jim Crow, it’s all abuse. They are a danger to society and are getting black people killed because police are afraid to get out of their cars.”

    O’Donnell acknowledges the excess and overreach of what he calls “penny ante raids” and says they should be “reined in” but points out that drugs are still illegal and argues that going in with overwhelming force can be safer for everyone.

    That viewpoint is taken up in the movie by the FBI director, James Comey, who gives a speech that uses Trump-like phrasing to dismiss legitimate concerns, when he talks about “so-called warrior cops, a term I have heard, and the militarization of police”. He then proclaims “monsters are real” and justifies the need for these weapons. The editing is a bit selective: the clip ends before Comey acknowledges that “the issue is the way in which we use it – when and how we deploy advanced equipment; when and how our officers are trained to use that equipment. The way we do it matters enormously.” But Comey, like many defenders of militarization against an armed citizenry, does not speak out for stronger gun control to reduce the need for such equipment and attitudes.

    (Oh now, here it is. We have to give up our rights because cops are scared. - AF)

    Do Not Resist shifts gears in the last 15 minutes to look at the explosive growth in police use of technology, from cameras in public spaces to facial recognition software to social media analysis. At first glance this seems far less problematic, especially since cameras helped lead to the speedy arrest of the alleged terrorist in the recent New York City bombing. But Hansford argues these surveillance tactics can be just as insidious. “The truth is not used for justice equally, it is used for power and control,” he says. “It feels like a less direct threat because it is less visceral but there is a real danger of a slippery slope where the technology will be used for minor infractions and not enforced equally.”

    Kraska is pessimistic about possible change, pointing out that departments can ramp up under the guise of community policing by saying they need armored vehicles and Swat teams “to create a climate of order for the community. But that really is the model of an occupying force”.

    Atkinson, who hopes that police academies would screen his film as part of training, counters that he has met officers “who are moving away from the Dave Grossman philosophy, realizing it’s actually more dangerous for them and that de-escalation makes officers’ lives safer”. He believes these officers are looking for ways to get back to that old police motto, “to protect and serve”.



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  3. #2
    We are a danger to the society they want. and rightly so.

  4. #3
    We really aren't, though.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    We really aren't, though.
    Because?

  6. #5
    One Star $#@!...show yourself.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Because?
    Because it's happening, and there isn't anything we can do to threaten it. Nobody wants to hear our bull$#@! about cops. Cops are good guys who only hurt bad guys. If cops hurt people then they deserved it.

    They don't believe anything wrong at all happened with Freddie Gray. They don't have a clue who Kelley Thomas or Nick Christie were. These are fantasies, small mass hallucinations we share. They didn't happen, and when they can't logically claim they didn't, they focus on the ones where the department got an extra hour of racial sensitivity training and point out that we have threatened their job quite enough for the minor inconvenience that was caused.

    We are not a threat because 99 out of every 100 people we know is a copsucker. They have won for the short and medium term.

    And our movement has been dead for four whole years now. There is absolutely nothing we can do to threaten them.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Because it's happening, and there isn't anything we can do to threaten it. Nobody wants to hear our bull$#@! about cops. Cops are good guys who only hurt bad guys. If cops hurt people then they deserved it.

    They don't believe anything wrong at all happened with Freddie Gray. They don't have a clue who Kelley Thomas or Nick Christie were. These are fantasies, small mass hallucinations we share. They didn't happen, and when they can't logically claim they didn't, they focus on the ones where the department got an extra hour of racial sensitivity training and point out that we have threatened their job quite enough for the minor inconvenience that was caused.

    We are not a threat because 99 out of every 100 people we know is a copsucker. They have won for the short and medium term.

    And our movement has been dead for four whole years now. There is absolutely nothing we can do to threaten them.
    Ya, that's what I thought you meant. Now we have people making a "libertarian case for world government" on rpf's.

  9. #8
    Bingo.

    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Because it's happening, and there isn't anything we can do to threaten it. Nobody wants to hear our bull$#@! about cops. Cops are good guys who only hurt bad guys. If cops hurt people then they deserved it.

    They don't believe anything wrong at all happened with Freddie Gray. They don't have a clue who Kelley Thomas or Nick Christie were. These are fantasies, small mass hallucinations we share. They didn't happen, and when they can't logically claim they didn't, they focus on the ones where the department got an extra hour of racial sensitivity training and point out that we have threatened their job quite enough for the minor inconvenience that was caused.

    We are not a threat because 99 out of every 100 people we know is a copsucker. They have won for the short and medium term.

    And our movement has been dead for four whole years now. There is absolutely nothing we can do to threaten them.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    One Star $#@!...show yourself.
    Up to three now, it was a futile gesture. It will be five in no time.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Up to three now, it was a futile gesture. It will be five in no time.
    I chipped in a 5

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Because it's happening, and there isn't anything we can do to threaten it. Nobody wants to hear our bull$#@! about cops. Cops are good guys who only hurt bad guys. If cops hurt people then they deserved it.

    They don't believe anything wrong at all happened with Freddie Gray. They don't have a clue who Kelley Thomas or Nick Christie were. These are fantasies, small mass hallucinations we share. They didn't happen, and when they can't logically claim they didn't, they focus on the ones where the department got an extra hour of racial sensitivity training and point out that we have threatened their job quite enough for the minor inconvenience that was caused.

    We are not a threat because 99 out of every 100 people we know is a copsucker. They have won for the short and medium term.

    And our movement has been dead for four whole years now. There is absolutely nothing we can do to threaten them.
    I don't think that is the case. There are plenty of people who dislike the cops and the security state. But what I think happens is people protect their own while criticizing everyone else. *MY* city's cops are generally good people; it is the other cops who are bad. Similar to how 92% of Americans hate Congress yet over 60% like their sitting Congressmen.

  14. #12
    Was that a Snake Pliskin wannabe selling police gear?
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.No. View Post
    I don't think that is the case. There are plenty of people who dislike the cops and the security state. But what I think happens is people protect their own while criticizing everyone else. *MY* city's cops are generally good people; it is the other cops who are bad. Similar to how 92% of Americans hate Congress yet over 60% like their sitting Congressmen.
    Yeah, there is some truth to that, but mostly, nobody cares.

    Boobus will suffer any affront to his liberty, sanity and honor and not say a peep in protest.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    We are a danger to the society they want. and rightly so.
    I say Cops are a danger to the society of Libertarians. Hell, ANY society at this point...
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  17. #15
    I hate these type of filmmakers. They make a movie and no one can watch it. I looked on their website, 0.0 ways for me to see it. What's the point. They show it in a major city for a couple of days, then on to the next.. WTF.

  18. #16
    1. Liberals (excluding 'classical liberals') worship at the alter of the police state; libertarians do not--the latter realize that law enforcement cannot preclude wrongfulness, only might their tentative efforts be intermediate and transitory. Law enforcement personnel (including government in general) are not inherently prophylactic, they are just simply reactive and in certain instances even proactive.
    2. There is no logical connection between libertarians, police-on-black violence/murder, and scaredy-cops. (It is no surprise to me that somebody out of the NYPD would dare assert that it is other than the police's own damned fault for killing or harming another person, such being directly attributable to the very actions of their own incompetent hands.)
    3. Not all libertarians subscribe to the core philosophies of anarchists, many are for example, minarchists.
    4. The issue is not so much "believing in police", but more about making a case for the anti-militarization of police.
    5. Really, you want to play SPECOPS Rambo MOFO peacock with a bulging chest full of regalia? Really dude, stop being such a sad-sack, go enlist in the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, qualify for your special-schools, get yourself forward-deployed, and go about to be a real man's man, man. Prove yourself truly worthy, your manhood, by committing to willful acts of genocide (and not democide); yes, yes, go my friend, go and participate in the mass-murder of tribal and agrarian peoples of hapless third-world nations.
    Last edited by Weston White; 10-07-2016 at 04:45 AM.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius


    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber



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  20. #17
    Classic mistake. Conflating "society" with "government". This idiot thinks we are a threat to society, but what he really means is that we are a threat to the governance of society by the State. While he's wrong in his understanding, he's right in his sentiment.

    The problem is that his line of reasoning cannot even conceive of a society without governance. To them, they are one and the same.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  21. #18
    They say things like this because they are trained to:




    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  22. #19
    Police, are an authoritarian concept. (control enforcement)

    to accept them is to accept Authoritarianism.

    I accept it as an unfortunate reality,, and oppose it personally.

    Authoritarian Control Enforcers have no place in a Free Society.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    They say things like this because they are trained to:

    Trained to by who?
    Fusion Centers? ,, SPLC? ,, Federal Government?

    "Trained"
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  24. #21
    You know who's a danger to society?

    Armored psychopaths who turn your door into splinters and disintegrate your family over an ounce of weed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.

  25. #22
    They are a danger to society and are getting black people killed because police are afraid to get out of their cars.
    This assumes you have to be brave and accountable to cower and flinch.

    Fear is an individual problem, it's no wonder you would hide in a gang.
    Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25
    "I think the propaganda machine is the biggest problem that we face today in trying to get the truth out to people."
    Ron Paul

    Please watch, subscribe, like, & share, Ron Paul Liberty Report
    BITCHUTE IS A LIBERTY MINDED ALTERNATIVE TO GOOGLE SUBSIDIARY YOUTUBE

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Trained to by who?
    Fusion Centers? ,, SPLC? ,, Federal Government?

    "Trained"
    The state LE academies.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  27. #24
    Safe to say that "not intentionally malevolent" is no longer true, Matt?



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Spikender View Post
    You know who's a danger to society?

    Armored psychopaths who turn your door into splinters and disintegrate your family over an ounce of weed.
    ...And those truly pathetic individuals who get all giddy when invading your castle to denigrate and command you in front of your family, hastily exterminating your pets for barking at their eminence.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius


    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  30. #26
    "Libertarians are a danger to society"


    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi


    so we can tally stage 1 and 2 complete now?

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Yeah, there is some truth to that, but mostly, nobody cares.

    Boobus will suffer any affront to his liberty, sanity and honor and not say a peep in protest.
    especially if you threaten Boobus with a draconian statutory felony and offer a we'll just keep an eye on you plea

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  32. #28

  33. #29


    The emperor wears no clothes.
    To paraphrase Voltaire, "it is difficult to free fools from the koolaid they revere".
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    They say things like this because they are trained to:




    Brought to you by the SPLC, on behalf of the Crown bankers Association.

    At the 3:40 mark the cop actually explains the TRUTH but couches it as fiction, either intentionally or through his own ignorance. That video is intended solely to keep uneducated cops (remember, they're only hiring the low IQ now on purpose) afraid and ignorant of history. On the other hand, many that call themselves "sovereign citizens", while on the right track that somethin' ain't right, don't know how to legally maneuver through the system and thus end up frustrated when what they do is incorrect to obtain the relief they know they are entitled to.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals



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