A Libertarian Case For Global Government?

[r3volution 3.0]

As libertarians, we care about what the government does (e.g. how much it taxes, regulates, inflates, wars, etc). We care about how the government is structured (e.g. whether it is local or global) only insofar as it affects what the government does. If local government would tend to behave in a more libertarian fashion (e.g. less taxing, regulating, inflating, warring, etc), then we as libertarians should prefer local government. If, on the other hand, it's global government that would tend to behave in a more libertarian fashion, then we as libertarians should prefer global government. So, which is it? Is local or global government more likely to behave in a libertarian fashion?

That's the question to be answered in this thread.

At this point, I'm not going to make an argument, I'm just going to lay out some pros and cons for each side.

Local Government, Pros
-economic competition between states, which encourages liberal economic policy

Local Government, Cons
-war between states, and war is both bad in itself and a major driver of state growth

Global Government, Pros
-no war between states, since only one state

Global Government, Cons
-no economic competition between states, since only one state

These factors, and any others that may exist, would have to be weighed against one another, to find which system is best on balance.

So I'll leave it there for now and await your comments.

[otherone]

Government should never be beyond the range of a .22 long rifle.

[AZJoe]

Because they have done such a wonderful job with limited power ruling their countries, their power over others should be expanded to near absolute, to rule the world.

[r3volution 3.0]

Because they have done such a wonderful job with limited power ruling their countries, their power over others should be expanded to near absolute, to rule the world.

Does the existence of states other than the US limit the ability of the US to oppress its own citizens?

[AZJoe]

Does the existence of states other than the US limit the ability of the US to oppress its own citizens?

Of course it does. In thousands of ways. Think about it. You are smart enough to come up with some reasons yourself first.

[r3volution 3.0]

Of course it does. In thousands of ways. Think about it. You are smart enough to come up with some reasons yourself first.

I already came up with one, posted in the OP: competition for mobile labor/capital encouraging liberal economic policies.

What others are there?

And, when you throw war on the other side of the scales, where does the balance lie? The effect of economic competition is hard to measure, but I'm inclined to say that it's prevented less state growth than war has caused. So, if those are the only factors, world government appears to come out on top.

[thoughtomator]

Not at all surprised to see one of the usual suspects advancing the cause of global tyranny right here under the pretense of being libertarian.

People who ought to have kept their mouths shut until their brain had enough information to make an actual informed opinion instead got to play lord-of-the-flies, and in the process managed to turn RPF from a widely influential site into one whose metrics resemble a clickbait spam site.

[William Tell]

Does the existence of states other than the US limit the ability of the US to oppress its own citizens?

Ask Ed Snowden.

[Origanalist]

There is no libertarian case for global government. This is the stuff of nightmares.

[Dr.No.]

There are benefits to stronger central governments. There are benefits to stronger local governments.

I'm very happy that the federal government broke the individual states when they tried to enforce segregation. I'm thrilled that civil rights, gay marriage, and now transgender rights are protected by all levels of government; the federal government shoved these ideas down the throats of the states, and to their own benefits...to everyone's benefit.

But I'm very unhappy with a federal government that tries to slam their drug laws down everyone's throats. Same with healthcare laws, or certain business regulations.

[r3volution 3.0]

Ask Ed Snowden.

Yes, but for every Snowden there's a Lenin (expatriated to England to plot the bolshevik revolution).

The ability of dissidents to flee a hostile regime helps the dissident's cause, but that cause is not necessarily pro-liberty.

[Origanalist]

There are benefits to stronger central governments. There are benefits to stronger local governments.

I'm very happy that the federal government broke the individual states when they tried to enforce segregation. I'm thrilled that civil rights, gay marriage, and now transgender rights are protected by all levels of government; the federal government shoved these ideas down the throats of the states, and to their own benefits...to everyone's benefit.

But I'm very unhappy with a federal government that tries to slam their drug laws down everyone's throats. Same with healthcare laws, or certain business regulations.

My head hurts now.

[William Tell]

Yes, but for every Snowden there's a Lenin (expatriated to England to plot the bolshevik revolution).

The ability of dissidents to flee a hostile regime helps the dissident's cause, but that cause is not necessarily pro-liberty.

I guess centralizing all power so Lenin can take over the entire globe is more pro-liberty somehow?

Global government is the ultimate definition of putting all your eggs in one basket.

[Origanalist]

If we had global government there would be no war. Except of course against those vile evil doers that opposed it.

[William Tell]

There are benefits to stronger central governments. There are benefits to stronger local governments.

I'm very happy that the federal government broke the individual states when they tried to enforce segregation. I'm thrilled that civil rights, gay marriage, and now transgender rights are protected by all levels of government; the federal government shoved these ideas down the throats of the states, and to their own benefits...to everyone's benefit.

But I'm very unhappy with a federal government that tries to slam their drug laws down everyone's throats. Same with healthcare laws, or certain business regulations.

rofl. big government is good as long as its working for what you like. Its good to see we have some normal Americans on the forums.

[Origanalist]

rofl. big government is good as long as its working for what you like. Its good to see we have some normal Americans on the forums.

The dissonance, it burns.

[r3volution 3.0]

Global government is the ultimate definition of putting all your eggs in one basket.

It depends on the nature of the baskets, and your goal. Suppose we know that global government will be less tyrannical on average over time than the average national government over time. If the goal is the greatest liberty for the greatest number of people, then we'd want a world state. On the other hand, if the goal is to maximize the odds of there always being someplace that's relatively free, even if only a small fraction of the world's population can live there and enjoy that freedom, then we'd want many, independent states.

[William Tell]

It depends on the nature of the baskets, and your goal.

No. It's one basket, by definition.

Suppose we know that global government will be less tyrannical on average over time than the average national government over time.

But we don't. In fact most of us know the opposite. Look at the EU.

If the goal is the greatest liberty for the greatest number of people, then we'd want a world state.

You basically pulled the world peace card. Make Iron Man world emperor and we will all have peace and babes. But there isn't an Iron Man. And there will not be world peace, and if there is it will mean we are all totally neutered and enslaved beyond hope.

On the other hand, if the goal is to maximize the odds of there always being someplace that's relatively free, even if only a small fraction of the world's population can live there and enjoy that freedom, then we'd want many, independent states.

Many eggs, many baskets.

[John F Kennedy III]

Not at all surprised to see one of the usual suspects advancing the cause of global tyranny right here under the pretense of being libertarian.

People who ought to have kept their mouths shut until their brain had enough information to make an actual informed opinion instead got to play lord-of-the-flies, and in the process managed to turn RPF from a widely influential site into one whose metrics resemble a clickbait spam site.

Yeah the OP is absolutely not a libertarian. And there are about 10 members that if they left RPF wouldn't be any better than Hannity Forums or some other $#@!ball authoritarian site.

At max there are like 10 actual libertarians left on RPF. The rest are bridge dwellers and authoritarians. That's your legacy Bryan.

[Dr.No.]

rofl. big government is good as long as its working for what you like. Its good to see we have some normal Americans on the forums.

As long as big government is working to end segregation and unequal legal protection done by the states? Yeah, I am happy with that.

I could just as easily say that you are only happy with small government as long as it is working for what you like. As in, "thank goodness there isn't any police to stop me from robbing the weak!"

[timosman]

If we had global government there would be no war. Except of course against those vile evil doers that opposed it.

You mean the terrorists?

[timosman]

Yeah the OP is absolutely not a libertarian. And there are about 10 members that if they left RPF wouldn't be any better than Hannity Forums or some other $#@!ball authoritarian site.

At max there are like 10 actual libertarians left on RPF. The rest are bridge dwellers and authoritarians. That's your legacy Bryan.

Ouch!

[Danke]

As long as big government is working to end segregation and unequal legal protection done by the states? Yeah, I am happy with that.

I could just as easily say that you are only happy with small government as long as it is working for what you like. As in, "thank goodness there isn't any police to stop me from robbing the weak!"

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Dr.No. again.

[tod evans]

There are benefits to stronger central governments. There are benefits to stronger local governments.

I'm very happy that the federal government broke the individual states when they tried to enforce segregation. I'm thrilled that civil rights, gay marriage, and now transgender rights are protected by all levels of government; the federal government shoved these ideas down the throats of the states, and to their own benefits...to everyone's benefit.

But I'm very unhappy with a federal government that tries to slam their drug laws down everyone's throats. Same with healthcare laws, or certain business regulations.

Quite the thinker aren't you?

[otherone]

It depends on the nature of the baskets, and your goal. Suppose we know that global government will be less tyrannical on average over time than the average national government over time. If the goal is the greatest liberty for the greatest number of people, then we'd want a world state.

Liberty is not something handed out by government.

[juleswin]

Global Government, Pros
-no war between states, since only one state

Definitely not a pro, you still have lots of real wars fought within states(so called "civil" wars). In fact, I would argue that the breaking up of states leads to less wars than forcing all states to be under one union. So that leaves us with no pro and all cons.

[CaptUSA]

What kind of BS is this thread?! What is happening in here?

I have critiqued Nationalism because of the incredible dangers, but that should NEVER be taken as a justification for globalism! Holy shyt! I'll make it simple for you:

When it comes to governance:
Globalism = Bad
Nationalism = Just as bad (just faster)
Localism = Better
Individualism = Best

When it comes to trade, the exact opposite is true.

[AZJoe]

Yes, but for every Snowden there's a Lenin (expatriated to England to plot the bolshevik revolution).

That is an argument against world government (aka world tyranny)

[presence]

the only possibility for a legitimate libertarian government is entrance into agreement with a peer via good faith contract

[AZJoe]

As long as big government is working to end segregation and unequal legal protection done by the states? Yeah, I am happy with that.I could just as easily say that you are only happy with small government as long as it is working for what you like. As in, "thank goodness there isn't any police to stop me from robbing the weak!"

And so Dr. No argues to reject liberty and embrace oppression. Dr. No advocates in favor of Stalin and the Soviet Union, Mao and Red China, Genghis Khan, North Korea, and all the wonderful "governments" that fit No's requirement. After all, Dr. No's "wonderful" governments have only exterminated some hundreds of millions helpless defenseless lives of their own subjects without making any war. With the wonderful total dominance of world government why they could exterminate billions of their own peoples. How thoughtful of Dr. "Nutcase" No and P3rsection 3.0 to want to total world oppression for our own good.