U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism,’ says U.N. panel

[juleswin]

Hmmmm, average blacks in the USA are by a factor of 10X or so more prosperous than anywhere else in the the world and maybe 25X more prosperous than in their ancestor's place of origin. True REPARATION would mean restoring the descendants to the situation that would exist had those ancestors not been forced on the middle passage. I figure a plane ticket to west Africa and $1000 cash for renouncing the USA forever would cover the tab. They would step off the plane in Lagos as members of the local 1% in wealth and education from day one.

Yea but that's not how it is done. Imagine a world where an uneducated, homeless man is falsely convicted of a crime, he serves 30 yrs in prison and afterwards the evidence exonerates him, he then comes to the state asking for reparation/compensation for the false imprisonment. Now image someone with your way of thinking at the helm.

He would ask the falsely imprisoned man to instead pay for the shelter, food, medical care he received in prison because before his imprisonment, his prospects on life was bleak and his well being improved while in prison. I can imagine that you are probably shaking your head in confusion as to why the treatment this homeless man got is wrong, but thank God this is not how it works in real life. The compensation is for the crime of wrongful conviction/imprisonment not what the victims potential could have been.

Get it?

[wizardwatson]

Newsflash my afro-brothers and sisters. You're still on the plantation. So are most of the rest of us. Slavery was never outlawed, is was just restructured to include everyone who wasn't born with a silver spoon in their mouth or who doesn't love licking boots and but-holes.

So educate yourself on real problems or get back to work. That field ain't gonna farm itself.

[juleswin]

For every 1 white slave owner that benefited from slavery there were 10 white non-slave owners that were undercut in the labor markets.

Do they get reparations?

Is there any evidence that only certain people were allowed to own slaves? if no, then how can one claim someone else undercut them in business? if yes then they have a case.

[presence]

Is there any evidence that only certain people were allowed to own slaves? if no, then how can one claim someone else undercut them in business? if yes then they have a case.

If we enter with the premise that human bondage is immoral; the non-slave owning white isn't allowed deontologically.

[enhanced_deficit]

To add a "justice delayed is justice denied" twist monkey wrench to UN Justice initiatives, did the UN say anything about reparations for Iraqi victims of colorr of Iraq war or that will be brought up in year 2500 due to delay in lazy UN SWCs beurocratic paperwork?



Will this dude also get a cut from reps that UN is calling for now or only those not involved in current terrorism plots/dronegangsta-ism and its supporters etc would be eligible?


More importantly, when will UN start reparations for all the underage children of color in Iraq who were victims of racial revenge terrorism due to UN authorized wars?
What will be the typical compensation amount for each family of color who lost a family member/a limb/ a home etc?
Will the same bootlickers of neocons SWcbags/DGPbags come up with compensation structure who authorized these wars or a non-UN outside body will finalize that payments structure?

So many questions for UN on Justice, so little time for meetings and money bagging for blood sports.

[euphemia]

I lost ancestors In the War Between the States. Every family after that were poor, hardworking people. A lot of them were day laborers or dirt farmers who never owned much of anything. I suppose that is different than what everyone else experienced.

[tod evans]

I lost ancestors In the War Between the States. Every family after that were poor, hardworking people. A lot of them were day laborers or dirt farmers who never owned much of anything. I suppose that is different than what everyone else experienced.

My father was literally raised in a one room tar-paper shack.

I was raised in comparable luxury what with wood heat in the ol' farm house, 'lectricity and plumbing!

[Brian4Liberty]

For every 1 white slave owner that benefited from slavery there were 10 white non-slave owners that were undercut in the labor markets.

Do they get reparations?

The current plight of non-legal immigrant labor is the new slavery. In relative and adjusted terms, it's probably more profitable than slavery was. With slavery, they had to provide food, housing and minimal medical care. Today with undocumented workers, it's just cheap wages and good luck to you on all the rest.

Speaking of undercut in the labor markets...

Newsflash my afro-brothers and sisters. You're still on the plantation. So are most of the rest of us. Slavery was never outlawed, is was just restructured to include everyone who wasn't born with a silver spoon in their mouth or who doesn't love licking boots and but-holes.

So educate yourself on real problems or get back to work. That field ain't gonna farm itself.

Same old story. It was pretty much naturally replacing slavery in the US. Just increase the labor pool far beyond demand, and labor costs can sometimes fall below the cost of slaves.

[Ender]

Newsflash my afro-brothers and sisters. You're still on the plantation. So are most of the rest of us. Slavery was never outlawed, is was just restructured to include everyone who wasn't born with a silver spoon in their mouth or who doesn't love licking boots and but-holes.

So educate yourself on real problems or get back to work. That field ain't gonna farm itself.

'Zactly.

The 14th Amendment didn't stop slavery, it made all of us slaves.

[euphemia]

Maybe there should be reparations. Give people one year to research their own families and if they can prove their ancestors were owned by white people, then fine. Let's give each of those people, say, $5000. Then, as of Dec 31, 2017 all welfare, food stamps, and subsidized housing will end. Sounds like a bargain.

[bunklocoempire]

Over 1 million casualties, the vast majority white, in a senseless war that started the road to the oppressive police/surveillance state we have now, ostensibly to free slaves.

22 trillion spent on Great Society anti poverty programs.

Reparations paid in full.

$#@! off.

Yeah, $#@! off, liars, you never show your work. More slavery to compensate for slavery? Tell me another one.



Well, they divided up all the land
We've got states and cities
Cities have their neighborhoods
And more subdivisions

There's countries divided by walls
Oceans and latitude
And longitude, longing to find out
Just what they're missing
There's lots of area codes
And nine digit zip codes
Secret decoder ring codes
Arteries, shopping nodes

We'll invent some new computers
Link up the global village
And get AP, UPI, Reuters
To tell everybody the news

We'll be one happy neighborhood
Spread out across the world
Who's going to stop that burglar
From breaking into my house
If he lives that far away

We'll be just like old friends
No means to your ends
The police state is too busy
And the neighborhood's getting out of hand

Big Brother on every wall
Muzak plays in all the halls
Empires see the rise and fall
They divide, conquer

It's not about my politics
Something happened way too quick
Bunch of men who played it sick
They divide, conquer

It's all here before your eyes
Safety is a big disguise
That hides among the other lies
They divide, conquer

Well, I expect I won't be heard
'Cause my silence is assured
Never a discouraging word
They divide and conquer

They divide and conquer

[juleswin]

Newsflash my afro-brothers and sisters. You're still on the plantation. So are most of the rest of us. Slavery was never outlawed, is was just restructured to include everyone who wasn't born with a silver spoon in their mouth or who doesn't love licking boots and but-holes.

So educate yourself on real problems or get back to work. That field ain't gonna farm itself.

I am sorry but this is just some false equivalency bull$#@! that needs to be countered. First of all I am going to get this out of the way by stating that I do not agree with the reparation to descendants of slaves. Its one thing to return items that were taken or payment to newly free slaves after it was ended but I completely and totally do not agree with what the UN/BLM is proposing.

Now that we have gotten that out of the way, lets just examine for a minute what you are saying. It seems to me that you think we are still on the same plantation, old slavery is new slavery and forced farm labor is same a taxed voluntary work life. The problem with your post is that for it to apply to the discussion of reparations for old slavery, one has to believe that old slavery and new age slavery is sorta on the same level. Now it is evident that this is not remotely true to any degree by the fact that nobody here would trade slavery under the modern state to physical, mental and spiritually tasking slavery the African American slaves lived through in the slave days. The same logic explains why people rightfully celebrate when they get out of prison even though were all living in a giant prison under the state and also the same reason why a prisoner asks for compensation after being released due to a false accusation.

Just a word of warning, telling a person asking for compensation because he had been falsely imprisoned to educate themselves about the real problem would be dangerous to your well-being, don't try what you did here to the real world. Yes we live in a plantation but compared to the plantations of the past, this is Shangri la, I would properly education myself about arguments from false equivalency before future posts like this.

[Anti Federalist]

Now that we have gotten that out of the way, lets just examine for a minute what you are saying. It seems to me that you think we are still on the same plantation, old slavery is new slavery and forced farm labor is same a taxed voluntary work life. The problem with your post is that for it to apply to the discussion of reparations for old slavery, one has to believe that old slavery and new age slavery is sorta on the same level. Now it is evident that this is not remotely true to any degree by the fact that nobody here would trade slavery under the modern state to physical, mental and spiritually tasking slavery the African American slaves lived through in the slave days. The same logic explains why people rightfully celebrate when they get out of prison even though were all living in a giant prison under the state and also the same reason why a prisoner asks for compensation after being released due to a false accusation.

Just a word of warning, telling a person asking for compensation because he had been falsely imprisoned to educate themselves about the real problem would be dangerous to your well-being, don't try what you did here to the real world. Yes we live in a plantation but compared to the plantations of the past, this is Shangri la, I would properly education myself about arguments from false equivalency before future posts like this.

Nonsense.

Life in general, for freeman or slave, was much tougher then than now, and we were made of much sterner fiber than now.

The plantation that we live on may be gilt edged, it may not have whips and chains, but believe me, it is just as, if not more, soul crushing.

It is soul crushing for its completeness, its pervasiveness, its ability to reach you anywhere on the planet, with the knowledge there is no where to run to, no where to hide, no where to start over.

It achieves compliance at a level that no harsh overseer could have possibly ever imagined.

And ultimately, that is the only metric of success of a prison or plantation: the degree to which the slaves are compliant and do your bidding.

[juleswin]

Nonsense.

Life in general, for freeman or slave, was much tougher then than now, and we were made of much sterner fiber than now.

The plantation that we live on may be gilt edged, it may not have whips and chains, but believe me, it is just as, if not more, soul crushing.

It is soul crushing for its completeness, its pervasiveness, its ability to reach you anywhere on the planet, with the knowledge there is no where to run to, no where to hide, no where to start over.

It achieves compliance at a level that no harsh overseer could have possibly ever imagined.

And ultimately, that is the only metric of success of a prison or plantation: the degree to which the slaves are compliant and do your bidding.

I completely disagree with you. This phenomena is easily observed by looking at what happens to caged chickens or watched the behavior of animals in old type zoos vs New age open range zoos. The undeniable truth is that reproduction, productivity, health and every measurable positive metric improves when animals are taken out of closed cage prisons into open air ones.

Same with the human animal

[Anti Federalist]

I completely disagree with you. This phenomena is easily observed by looking at what happens to caged chickens or watched the behavior of animals in old type zoos vs New age open range zoos. The undeniable truth is that reproduction, productivity, health and every measurable positive metric improves when animals are taken out of closed cage prisons into open air ones.

Same with the human animal

Yes, and animals in captivity, regardless of open air or caged, live longer and better lives than their counterparts in the wild.

You just proved my point.

We are all just cattle, human resources, to be managed and controlled and used to whatever purpose the powers that be or the "majority" say.

A gilded prison or a prison of chains, is still a prison.

[juleswin]

Yes, and animals in captivity, regardless of open air or caged, live longer and better lives than their counterparts in the wild.

You just proved my point.

We are all just cattle, human resources, to be managed and controlled and used to whatever purpose the powers that be or the "majority" say.

A gilded prison or a prison of chains, is still a prison.

I didn't prove your point, the reasons why animals in the wild animals live shorter lives has a lot to do with them getting killed by their fellow animals when they get old and slow and them not getting medicine and care from their captors. The argument is between closed cage and open air prisons. I am arguing that open air prison is better for the human condition than closed cage prisons and you are arguing against that proposition.

Tell me again why it is preferable to picked a closed cage prison over an open air one? That is the point you have to prove. Wait a minute, how long do wild turkeys, cows, goats, chickens live for? cos I know the average live span of the thanksgiving turkey is a little bit over 1 yr. So you may even be wrong about the lifespan of wild vs prisoned animals especially when it comes to barnyard animals

[Anti Federalist]

I didn't prove your point, the reasons why animals in the wild animals live shorter lives has a lot to do with them getting killed by their fellow animals when they get old and slow and them not getting medicine and care from their captors. The argument is between closed cage and open air prisons. I am arguing that open air prison is better for the human condition than closed cage prisons and you are arguing against that proposition.

Tell me again why it is preferable to picked a closed cage prison over an open air one? That is the point you have to prove. Wait a minute, how long do wild turkeys, cows, goats, chickens live for? cos I know the average live span of the thanksgiving turkey is a little bit over 1 yr. So you may even be wrong about the lifespan of wild vs prisoned animals especially when it comes to barnyard animals

The only point I have to prove is that you are arguing which type of prison you want humanity to live in, and I do not want to live in a prison of any kind.

[Brian4Liberty]

I am sorry but this is just some false equivalency bull$#@! that needs to be countered. First of all I am going to get this out of the way by stating that I do not agree with the reparation to descendants of slaves. Its one thing to return items that were taken or payment to newly free slaves after it was ended but I completely and totally do not agree with what the UN/BLM is proposing.

Now that we have gotten that out of the way, lets just examine for a minute what you are saying. It seems to me that you think we are still on the same plantation, old slavery is new slavery and forced farm labor is same a taxed voluntary work life. The problem with your post is that for it to apply to the discussion of reparations for old slavery, one has to believe that old slavery and new age slavery is sorta on the same level. Now it is evident that this is not remotely true to any degree by the fact that nobody here would trade slavery under the modern state to physical, mental and spiritually tasking slavery the African American slaves lived through in the slave days. The same logic explains why people rightfully celebrate when they get out of prison even though were all living in a giant prison under the state and also the same reason why a prisoner asks for compensation after being released due to a false accusation.

Just a word of warning, telling a person asking for compensation because he had been falsely imprisoned to educate themselves about the real problem would be dangerous to your well-being, don't try what you did here to the real world. Yes we live in a plantation but compared to the plantations of the past, this is Shangri la, I would properly education myself about arguments from false equivalency before future posts like this.

Compare and contrast. There are comparisons to the modern day, and contrasts.

Before I got into your post, I was going to say that the obvious contrast is that slave labor had components more like prison. So it was more like a cross between cheap labor with a visa hanging over their head and prison. Obviously, a slave sitting in any form of confinement all day would not have any value, so it was not exactly like what prison is today. And likewise, slavery had aspects that are worse than modern day prisons, such as physical punishment and essentially torture at times in certain cases.

I tend to look at the economic component, as for the most part, that is what the virtual "masters" of yesterday and today focus on. How much profit was there in slavery? How much profit in paying an illegal immigrant under the table? Is the later more profitable?

[juleswin]

The only point I have to prove is that you are arguing which type of prison you want humanity to live in, and I do not want to live in a prison of any kind.

Wrong, I started my reply to watson to prove that there is a big difference between the different types of plantations/prisons and pretending they are all sort a alike is bull$#@!. Then you jumped in to disprove that position.

I am not arguing which type of prison I want humanity to live in, if I was doing that then I wouldn't be a libertarian. I want to break all the chains and open all the cages so humanity can run wild and even if that means shorter lifespans. I too do not want to live in any prison but given a choice between spending my prison time in solitary confinement or house arrest? you bet that I would gladly choose house arrest over solitary confinement.

[juleswin]

Compare and contrast. There are comparisons to the modern day, and contrasts.

Before I got into your post, I was going to say that the obvious contrast is that slave labor had components more like prison. So it was more like a cross between cheap labor with a visa hanging over their head and prison. Obviously, a slave sitting in any form of confinement all day would not have any value, so it was not exactly like what prison is today. And likewise, slavery had aspects that are worse than modern day prisons, such as physical punishment and essentially torture at times in certain cases.

I tend to look at the economic component, as for the most part, that is what the virtual "masters" of yesterday and today focus on. How much profit was there in slavery? How much profit in paying an illegal immigrant under the table? Is the later more profitable?

Is the latter more profitable? answer is a big YES, the thing is that modern slavery is much better for the slave and fantastic for the slave master. Both sides actually benefited from the reform but it seems like it is blasphemy to bring up that fact.

[Jamesiv1]

Maybe there should be reparations. Give people one year to research their own families and if they can prove their ancestors were owned by white people, then fine. Let's give each of those people, say, $5000. Then, as of Dec 31, 2017 all welfare, food stamps, and subsidized housing will end. Sounds like a bargain.

^pretty good plan

[wizardwatson]

Just a word of warning, telling a person asking for compensation because he had been falsely imprisoned to educate themselves about the real problem would be dangerous to your well-being, don't try what you did here to the real world. Yes we live in a plantation but compared to the plantations of the past, this is Shangri la, I would properly education myself about arguments from false equivalency before future posts like this.

Here's another false equivalency. "Slavery is racist". Were slaves beaten by white masters because they were black or because they were property? The entire premise of the UN thing is that U.S. is guilty of "racial terrorism". If it is, it's more towards Native Americans than blacks. Black slaves were worth money at least. History shows that Natives were preferred dead.

Slavery is economic. It's simply socially convenient to use other races so as not to offend, but that isn't the root, that's the enabler.

And why do you start the reply saying that "it's different for someone who actually was a slave, vs. someone who is a descendant". Obviously, and I would agree, and I think it's obvious that was how my snarky comment was couched. But then here, when you "warn me" you act as if I am somehow addressing an actual slave/prisoner?

Anyway, point is, you've straw-manned me in your last paragraph. Because it's clear I'm talking to current living black people who obviously weren't slaves.

So to recap, slavery is not based in racism. It's economic terrorism. We all suffer from economic terrorism of a more insidious pernicious variety today, albeit less physically severe. And we are all in that boat, moreso than "we all were" in the slave days.

I do believe racism exists, not claiming it's in peoples imaginations, but it isn't is bad as it used to be and it certainly isn't unique to America. And slavery isn't the "metastisizing" of racism. My coworker is Romanian and I'm amazed how much racism exists between various white clans still in europe.

And I have used this analogy in public, around black people. Of course I'm cautious, but I can generally tell when someone is an idiot or not within a couple minutes of talking to them.

People do need to educate themselves if they think race is more relevant than economic class. It is the media and the propaganda that attempts to frame social conflicts around conservative/progressive, black/white, gay/straight when it's always ever been about the the haves and the have nots, the powerful and the powerless, those who follow the law and those who don't.

[RonPaulIsGreat]

Slavery 2.0 then. Who cares really. All the slaves are dead, all the masters are dead, most of the property has been sold and resold. The benefactors, and victimized have spread all about and even bred together in some cases. Reparations are a complete and total non-starter as far as I'm concerned. The topic of 200 year old slavery is about as interesting as watching newspaper turn yellow.

[ChristianAnarchist]

'Zactly.

The 14th Amendment didn't stop slavery, it made all of us slaves.

Got that right. But really, I support "reparations" to slaves. I'm one (as are you)... I want full reparations!!!

[wizardwatson]

Slavery 2.0 then. Who cares really. All the slaves are dead, all the masters are dead, most of the property has been sold and resold. The benefactors, and victimized have spread all about and even bred together in some cases. Reparations are a complete and total non-starter as far as I'm concerned. The topic of 200 year old slavery is about as interesting as watching newspaper turn yellow.

I agree. Let's all punch ourselves in the face, then buy ourselves an ice cream and call it even Steven.

[Brian4Liberty]

Here's another false equivalency. "Slavery is racist". Were slaves beaten by white masters because they were black or because they were property? The entire premise of the UN thing is that U.S. is guilty of "racial terrorism". ...

Slavery is bad because racism.
Stop and frisk is only bad because racism.
Cops shooting people is only bad because racism.

Is there a pattern here?

[oyarde]

How could you give reparations ? How could it be proven that any Black was not related to slave owning Blacks ?

[Danke]

How could you give reparations ? How could it be proven that any Black was not related to slave owning Blacks ?

And would Obama just get half a check?

[oyarde]

And would Obama just get half a check?

None , he just arrived recently. His white commie Mom probably collected some checks though .

[oyarde]

And would Obama just get half a check?

Next thing ya know , they will want casinos .