Your original argument was that Big pHARMa would never develop a cure for cancer because the treatment was more profitable. My point was that modern medicine has recently released a vaccine that prevents the #1 cause of cervical cancer.Originally Posted by Natural Citizen
You know what works for preventing disease? A clean healthy diet, exercise, taking care of yourself, avoiding stress... in other words, getting back to the basics. But instead, most Americans are fat, sick, addicted to eating junk, and on all sorts of medications.....when the answer is so simple. The good news is, more and more people are finally starting to wake up and realize what's actually going on. And I love that. Unfortunately, talking about nutrition and natural treatments *gasp* makes one the enemy to those who approve of the drug-selling, money making status quo.
“I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”
― Henry David Thoreau
No, that wasn't my argument. My argument was against adherence policy. Which you're neglecting, but it's okay. I don't care. It'll come up again anyway.
Although I did insinuate that profit is largely in treatment as opposed to cures by saying that there is no profit in cures. Only treatment.
Now. Let's talk about profit in terms of this vaccine. Do you agree that the government should be able to force consumption/sale of this product?
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-25-2016 at 10:50 PM.
How dare you talk about personal responsibility and making wise choices!!!! Just shut up and take the drugs we want to sell you.
I highlighted root problem, because that's the key thing that is missing... but that's probably a good topic for another thread.
“I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”
― Henry David Thoreau
And they're screwing everything that moves. That's what I meant by the social disease. There hasn't been a cure for that, yet. Only treatment. This HPV vaccine, for example.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-25-2016 at 10:43 PM.
Nope. Speak up.How dare you talk about personal responsibility and making wise choices!!!! Just shut up and take the drugs we want to sell you.
I highlighted root problem, because that's the key thing that is missing... but that's probably a good topic for another thread.
Nope to what? Starting a new thread on getting to the root of these problems?
“I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”
― Henry David Thoreau
Do it here. We don't need a new topic. Say what's on your mind when the thought comes.
Of course you can start a thread if you want. But still say what's on your mind when it presents itself. Discussion is good. And necessary.
Substantive debate on the evidence by knowledgeable proponents of all points of view are encouraged. Or should be anyway.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-25-2016 at 10:54 PM.
Yep.
I'm a natural health nut.That's how I was raised and how I live; I am extremely healthy and try and keep myself informed on a continuous basis.
My family is also very healthy- I have said before that my grandmother, who is in her 70's, looks 50, at the most, walks several miles every day, and has one of the sharpest minds on the planet.
If others want to vax- go for it, but do NOT try to force it on me or my loved ones.
There is no spoon.
Ah well. As far as the HPV vaccine goes, I'd tend to agree with the statesman's thought on such things. When the morality of the country changes, it will reflect on the laws. Laws will not correct the fundamental problem and the fundamental problem is the morality of the people. Forcing consumption of this particular pharmaceutical product by law will not cure the fundamental problem. It's only going to encourage it.
Of course, one could make the same case with others, too.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-25-2016 at 11:16 PM.
I was going to (I started writing out a post) but what I have in mind really is a whole new topic. And one that might have to go in the religion forum, because it involves God... and of course, talking about stuff like that on a thread like this would only anger or annoy certain people.
“I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”
― Henry David Thoreau
Yep.
I'm a natural health nut.
My family is also very healthy- I have said before that my grandmother, who is in her 70's, looks 50, at the most, walks several miles every day, and has one of the sharpest minds on the planet.
If others want to vax- go for it, but do NOT try to force it on me or my loved ones.
It's cool that you were raised that way, it sounds like you've been healthy your whole life. I was raised on the SAD, and for many years, I was kinda blind to the importance of physical health... up until about two years ago. I just wish I would've had that awakening years earlier.
I couldn't agree more with the last thing you said.
“I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”
― Henry David Thoreau
It's all good, lilymc. I'll look forward to your topic, then. This one's likely run its course anyway.
Might be interested in reading this: https://www.ncronline.org/news/faith...vaccine-debate
Discusses vaccines produced from stem cells (which only covers a couple of them) but stresses "the common good" in getting vaccinated. The cells come from a child aborted over 50 years ago.
This link includes a letter from a Vatican spokesperson. http://www.immunize.org/concerns/vaticandocument.htm"I also want to clarify that nobody at the Catholic Medical Association is against vaccines," Braaton added. "We think that vaccination is a moral good, that it's good for patients, and that it has benefited society greatly. We have a responsibility as moral agents to protect the common good and to immunize ourselves and our children against communicable disease."
Goodluck in your future endeavors!
I am the spoon.
Hm. So from a perspective of Individual Liberty alone, how is it moral to attempt to do good by force (through coercion of Man by Government for example) whether or not claimed to be for his own good or for the so-called common good or general welfare?
Additionally, it is logical to conclude that any precept that the end justifies these means or that these means can be separated from the end is, itself, anti-moral.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-25-2016 at 11:51 PM.
They still say it is up to the individual but they encourage vaccines.
I know.
I am the spoon.
Isn't it awesome that angelatc predictably ignored Ender's post?
I am the spoon.
Sure. I saw that. The problem, though, is that when laws are introduced in the U.S. for the "greater good", The Individual, unlike the Vatican's view, isn't provided the luxury of choosing what he consumes. Nor is his right to choose even considered when introducing it. This is a case of government-over-man.
The government won't say it's up to The Individual to choose if he wants to consume the product. The government will tell him that he has NO choice if it's written into law. And if he disagrees, then they send those men with guns. You know the ones. Well...if history is any indicator anyway.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-26-2016 at 12:27 AM.
Okay, so that was funny. I'm choking over here now. Sht.
Oh, dang, nm. You changed it. It was funny the other way.
For the record, (mod edit) I had no idea her real first name even was Donna. I also have no idea what her last name is. So really, you just outed her.
And so you can't donate, because your ID might leak out. You can't volunteer., because someone might find out who you are...but you're here. (mod edit)
AwwwI want to read the funny one.
I am the spoon.
For the record I think it's awesome that you can insult someone like, what, 20 times in the same thread? And the mods will do absolutely nothing about it besides inexplicably punishing one or more of the people you insulted. Yet if any of us call an obvious troll a troll, we get a PM, warning, neg rep and/or temp ban from a mod/Bryan.
I am the spoon.
I didn't ask you anything except wtf is wrong with you
Back to the beginning. The title of the thread is "More Evidence Proves Nutrition Beats Vaccines In Preventing Disease."
DonnaY (who always bellows I need to to more research) posted that provided no evidence, and encouraged readers to examine studies comparing unvaxxed kids to vaxxed kids . When I looked for any of those studies, I found another article by the same author that claims thse studies don't exist.
For a rational thinker like me, that sends up a red flag. Since DonnaY is obviously so smart and knows so much, I asked her to provide me the study to which her author was referring.
Her only response was not a study, but was an internet survey with no control groups, no random selection of the participants, and no independent diagnosis of the ailments "reported." She has posted this several times before, and never once has she acknowledged, much less defended the problems with the data and methodology.
Just waiting for her to respond with a real study, comparing vaxxed kids to unvaxxed kids, that prove nutrition beats vaccines.
I already know I'll be waiting forever because it doesn't exist.
Well, actually, I'm kinda big. I'm not little. Like when I go to the Chinese restaurant for that spinach stuff, they make, I tower over everyone. Heck, do you know that I can't even cross my legs under a table? True story. I have to sit sideways in the chair. Even just sitting there, my knees lift the table up. Plus I gots guns, angelatc. Big guns. I haven't measured em lately but they're big. Not like Hulk Hogan big. But big. But, no I'm not paranoid at all. I just pay attention. You know? What can I say, I'm a safety guy.
Well, sure I can. I can do any of that. And I do. A lot of people know my name here, though. And some even have my phone number. They call me all the time. Do you know why? I'll tell you why. Because I trust them. That's why. They've never given me a reason not to.And so you can't donate, because your ID might leak out. You can't volunteer., because someone might find out who you are...but you're here. (mod edit).
In fact, if you ever want to start a project, let me know. I'll help you. I got skills.
I don't even disagree with you that much. you're just a mean old bird most of the time. I can work with it, though. I'm adaptive.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-26-2016 at 01:07 AM.
She accused me of revealing personal information. She insinuated that I only volunteer in order to data mine info. (So she can't donate or volunteer, of course....someone might find out who she is.)
But I'm the insulting one?
It wasn't as mean. It was just funny.Awww
In fact, if you ever want to start a project, let me know. I'll help you.
I don't even disagree with you that much. you're just a mean old bird most of the time. I can work with it, though. I'm adaptive.
So you accuse me of revealing personal information, you insinuate that I only volunteer so I can data mine donor info, but then magnanimously you're willing to work with me on a project of my choice.
Yeah, that seems perfectly sane.
Just waiting for her to respond with a real study, comparing vaxxed kids to unvaxxed kids, that prove nutrition beats vaccines.
I already know I'll be waiting forever because it doesn't exist.
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