More Evidence Proves Nutrition Beats Vaccines in Preventing Disease

[MelissaWV]

The medical industry these days aren't much more than Big Pharma pill dispensers. Sure you can point to some good things they do, but look how much extra they charge than is even remotely necessary.

There's no profit in cures. Only treatment. So our "medical professional" friends largely learn to treat instead of cure. And now we have this new "adherence policy" stuff that is being talked about in Washington. The pharmaceutical companies write it and the browncoats in the pharmacy police it after Dr. Feelgood prescribes it. All with federal enforcement of the policy. Pretty convenient little federalized supply and demand gig they'll have there. And defined by their own pen, no less. Cripes, we've got the biggest pharmaceutical epidemic in the world. And likely the least healthy people. That's our "medical professionals" at work there. Heh. You'd think we'd be more careful, huh?

We've talked about the "adherence policy" stuff around here in detail. I just don't feel like looking for it to link here. It's humorous how selective the memories become when some friends profess that they've "debunked" something, though. Heh. I just kind of chuckle a bit to myself and move along to another thread when I see that.

Mercantilists gonna mercantile.

You know, I always seem to be on the wrong side of everything. This time, my choice of profession makes me the devil as well.

It may shock you to learn that some people actually do get better after medical treatment! I know! I KNOW! Crazy! It might shock you to learn that not everyone in the "medical profession" is out there rubbing their hands together plotting to rob you. It might even shock you what a number of things wind up costing, and how much the providers are reimbursed by payers. It would certainly NOT shock most decent medical providers to know that there are a large number of very beneficial "alternative" treatments, and some of them wind up being incorporated into common practice. A good doctor is going to listen to you and then provide their expert guidance. That expertise should usually extend to diet (including supplements, discussions about pH, etc.) and to more natural cures that, at worst, do no harm.

The strangest part to me is seeing a lack of animosity on the part of the physicians, nurses, administrative staff, etc., that I work with... towards those who advocate natural cures, yet seeing the hatred that those who advocate natural cures have towards "medical professionals." Most of you would still head straight to the ER to have a bone set, though, or if you thought you were having a heart attack. It's an odd puzzle. Then, once you were back on your feet, you would be back to demonizing an entire industry's worth of people.

The medication-shopping used to be for painkillers only. Now you see people doctor-shopping for antibiotics, or because little Timmy's cast needs to come off before football practice in a couple of weeks ---- never mind that his arm will probably not heal properly if he gets it taken off too early. Oh and if Timmy's arm does heal warped, his parents will sue the first doctor. People stomp in and demand a certain brand-name drug, even if it obviously clashes with another condition the patient has, or just isn't the best treatment for them.

I mentioned briefly about reimbursement. How much would you pay for someone to drive to your home --- even if they lived, say, 60 miles from you --- and give you a bath, tidy your home, take your vital signs, trim your nails, do your hair, take care of your laundry, etc.? If you said anything more than $30, you're ahead of most insurers. How about a nurse driving to your home to deal with a wound big enough to put both fists into, which is non-healing, and needs to be unwrapped, cleaned, measured, checked for signs/symptoms of infection (hint: one of those signs involves smell, so that nurse WILL be getting in there and taking a good, deep whiff), packed, wrapped, and any number of other fun things? If you said more than $31, you're ahead of Medicaid. If you said more than $115 or so, you're ahead of most commercial insurers. That includes supplies, by the way. It also assumes the insurer authorized the care, and in the case of Medicaid it assumes that the provider filled out a five-page questionnaire within 24 hours of admission, obtained the physician's order on a special form, printed out a plan of treatment on a different specific form, which was in turn reviewed and signed by an on-staff RN for accuracy and correct diagnosis coding... you get the idea. You don't even want to know what goes into being reimbursed by Medicare. So maybe the "all 'medical professionals' are greedy cockbags" can end, but it probably won't.

Once you boil it all down, it comes back to the Government having every grubby finger in every little thing. It doesn't come back to an entire profession, where a number are disillusioned and could not care less about patient care --- and where a much larger number care more than they're ever going to get credit for.

* * *

Lastly, I'm sure we'll see a certain poster called out for calling another poster "Angela" since there's a sudden concern that no one could have figured out someone's name from their screen name that already contains their name.

[Natural Citizen]

You know, I always seem to be on the wrong side of everything. This time, my choice of profession makes me the devil as well.

Nope. I didn't call the medical industry the devil. Not once. You're projecting. I'm talking about observable actions on this board that beg questions of personal harassment and strategic intent to intimidate and silence an Individual for what appears to be no other reason than disagreement on an issue.

I stopped there. So I''ll read the rest of your thoughts now. But I wanted to mention that first.

[Anti Federalist]

Promoting people to stay away from vaccines which are life saving and from conventional modern medicine on an open forum is not giving medical advice?

No, not in the legal, actionable sense of the word.

Labeling me and all board licensed physicians as biased and under some delusional spell cast by pharmaceutical companies is not libel?

No, not on the face of it, since I do not know you IRL and nobody is making those claims against you, specifically, as an individual. For the record, I am sure you are a hard working, diligent and professional practitioner of medicine to the very best of your ability.

No more libelous than Danke calling all sailors qu eers or me calling all pilots drunken fly boys.

I simply asked what her credentials are to promote these things and that she should be careful because, while she may have the best intentions, they may actually lead to harmful results.

That as may well be...freedom to speak your mind about things may have unintended consequences, including negative consequences.

As long as we remain clear on that being exactly what this is: free speech and alternative ideas, not professional medical advice.

[Natural Citizen]

It may shock you to learn that some people actually do get better after medical treatment! I know! I KNOW! Crazy! It might shock you to learn that not everyone in the "medical profession" is out there rubbing their hands together plotting to rob you. It might even shock you what a number of things wind up costing, and how much the providers are reimbursed by payers. It would certainly NOT shock most decent medical providers to know that there are a large number of very beneficial "alternative" treatments, and some of them wind up being incorporated into common practice. A good doctor is going to listen to you and then provide their expert guidance. That expertise should usually extend to diet (including supplements, discussions about pH, etc.) and to more natural cures that, at worst, do no harm.

The strangest part to me is seeing a lack of animosity on the part of the physicians, nurses, administrative staff, etc., that I work with... towards those who advocate natural cures, yet seeing the hatred that those who advocate natural cures have towards "medical professionals." Most of you would still head straight to the ER to have a bone set, though, or if you thought you were having a heart attack. It's an odd puzzle. Then, once you were back on your feet, you would be back to demonizing an entire industry's worth of people.

The medication-shopping used to be for painkillers only. Now you see people doctor-shopping for antibiotics, or because little Timmy's cast needs to come off before football practice in a couple of weeks ---- never mind that his arm will probably not heal properly if he gets it taken off too early. Oh and if Timmy's arm does heal warped, his parents will sue the first doctor. People stomp in and demand a certain brand-name drug, even if it obviously clashes with another condition the patient has, or just isn't the best treatment for them.

I mentioned briefly about reimbursement. How much would you pay for someone to drive to your home --- even if they lived, say, 60 miles from you --- and give you a bath, tidy your home, take your vital signs, trim your nails, do your hair, take care of your laundry, etc.? If you said anything more than $30, you're ahead of most insurers. How about a nurse driving to your home to deal with a wound big enough to put both fists into, which is non-healing, and needs to be unwrapped, cleaned, measured, checked for signs/symptoms of infection (hint: one of those signs involves smell, so that nurse WILL be getting in there and taking a good, deep whiff), packed, wrapped, and any number of other fun things? If you said more than $31, you're ahead of Medicaid. If you said more than $115 or so, you're ahead of most commercial insurers. That includes supplies, by the way. It also assumes the insurer authorized the care, and in the case of Medicaid it assumes that the provider filled out a five-page questionnaire within 24 hours of admission, obtained the physician's order on a special form, printed out a plan of treatment on a different specific form, which was in turn reviewed and signed by an on-staff RN for accuracy and correct diagnosis coding... you get the idea. You don't even want to know what goes into being reimbursed by Medicare. So maybe the "all 'medical professionals' are greedy cockbags" can end, but it probably won't.

Once you boil it all down, it comes back to the Government having every grubby finger in every little thing. It doesn't come back to an entire profession, where a number are disillusioned and could not care less about patient care --- and where a much larger number care more than they're ever going to get credit for.

No, this isn't disagreeable. Nor is it shocking or crazy. Agreed.

Lastly, I'm sure we'll see a certain poster called out for calling another poster "Angela" since there's a sudden concern that no one could have figured out someone's name from their screen name that already contains their name.

Her screen name is donnay. It's not about whether someone could figure it out. It's about specifically pointing it out for public consumption. Even going so far as to add quotations and add relevant spacing in many cases. This is a choice. And it begs the question of 1 - intention and 2 - how does one know the personal information of a member to make it applicable in the way that it was here and elsewhere? These are fair questions. Are they not?

[Chester Copperpot]

Yep. It sure can. Speaking of doxxing, itself, since you've mentioned it, that particular tactic of harassment serves two purposes in terms of intention. 1 - It serves to intimidate and silence any targeted Individuals or groups of Individuls. And 2 - it provides an avenue for the perpetuation of that person's harassment for future harassers. In fact, I was reading a piece on that very thing and technology and security experts had mentioned that everyone from political activists to government leaders have learned how effective this attack is and do make it applicable. It's an issue of concern. Particularly if the practice is made applicable by political activists who may aquire an Individual's personal information in some way. As you may know, there are some real sociopathic cut-throats in the political activist business. Heh. Is what it is, I suppose.

Anyway. Yeah. There are certainly intended consequences if that kind of thing is made applicable. Unintended consequences are quite another discussion.

what the hell is doxxing?

[Anti Federalist]

what the hell is doxxing?

dox

däks/

verbinformal

gerund or present participle: doxxing

search for and publish private or identifying information about (a particular individual) on the Internet, typically with malicious intent.

[Chester Copperpot]

dox

däks/

verbinformal

gerund or present participle: doxxing

search for and publish private or identifying information about (a particular individual) on the Internet, typically with malicious intent.

anybody got farreri's docs?? I will pay handsomely.

[Natural Citizen]

Heh. Chester...

Ya whacko bird.

[juleswin]

Forget about pharma companies and some of the lies they tell, the truth is that after getting a vaccine for say rubella, your body when tested shows an increase in antibody titer for the rubella virus. This is not the pharma companies talking, you can independently verify this yourself.

Vaccines work and this has been know for a long time. Also you have to understand that some of these pathogens have been around for millions of years and they have evolved to penetrate you immune system. So you being healthy is no guarantee.

[donnay]

Forget about pharma companies and some of the lies they tell, the truth is that after getting a vaccine for say rubella, your body when tested shows an increase in antibody titer for the rubella virus. This is not the pharma companies talking, you can independently verify this yourself.

Vaccines work and this has been know for a long time. Also you have to understand that some of these pathogens have been around for millions of years and they have evolved to penetrate you immune system. So you being healthy is no guarantee.

It's the ingredients that can do harm. A healthy immune system is critical to fight these pathogens.

[MelissaWV]

Which is why I am sure you will shortly rally to defend angelatc from someone naming her Angela in his post. You also may want to reread the posts in this thread belittling the "medical profession" (weren't you just pointing out sarcasm quotation marks...) as a bunch of profit-seeking monsters only interested in stringing people along to make a buck, dispensing pills and cashing big ole checks.

This is not the first thread to do that, nor will it be the last. It's a pattern old as the forums themselves, so no, not projecting .

[Natural Citizen]

Which is why I am sure you will shortly rally to defend angelatc from someone naming her Angela in his post.

Sure. I can do that. Even though it isn't nearly observable in the same context. Hold on.

[angelatc]

"Trolling" assumes that a person is taking a specious idea or belief, and running with it, in order to stir up trouble, clickbait, or draw people out into useless arguments.

.

Then she should take her nonsense to naturalnewsforums or something. There's no value in her posts.

[Natural Citizen]

Agreed. Angela needs to quit playing around.

Yo. Knock it off. The name is angelatc.

[Natural Citizen]

You also may want to reread the posts in this thread belittling the "medical profession" (weren't you just pointing out sarcasm quotation marks...) as a bunch of profit-seeking monsters only interested in stringing people along to make a buck, dispensing pills and cashing big ole checks.

It was said that we should be careful and to seek the knowledge of medical professionals while stimulating a rejection of any alternative discussion.

My use of "medical professionals" was placed into quotation marks to reflect the idea that we should be equally as careful with them. It was a direct reference and counter to TER's insertion. Did you check my facts? I supported my claim. My quotations were not offered in sarcasm. They were offered as a point of counter reference to the initial claim with regard to "medical professionals."

[angelatc]

Agreed. Angela needs to quit playing around. It wouldn't take someone more than 15 minutes to fully doxx her.

$#@! you, $#@!.

Angela Thornton Canny
15223 Ripple Dr
Linden MI 48451
810.459.8569

ANd it isn't even the first time I've posted it here, Einstein.

[angelatc]

LOL! I know what you are going to say because you are predictable in your staunch advocacy for vaccines!

That's probably what made you like Gary Johnson, he is for mandatory vaccines. I get it.

If you think my advocacy for vaccines is stealth, (mod edit) Vaccines save lives.

[Natural Citizen]

$#@! you, $#@!.

Hm. Well, that wasn't very ladylike.

ANd it isn't even the first time I've posted it here, Einstein.

Well sure. You're certainly fee to make rules for yourself so long as others aren't forced to equally do the same.

[angelatc]

Heaven forbid angelatc ever becomes a mod. Holy smoke. She'd have all of our stuff at her fingertips. And we see what she does when she knows your real name and maybe disagrees with you about something. Just puts it right out there in quotation marks for public consumption, she does. Dang. That's just evil. I don't know about you all but that gives me the heebie jeebies.

We can't have that kind of thing going on around here. Nope. Uh uh.

OMFG! My keyboard sucks - if you don't press realy really hard, it skips letters. You people really are entirely bat$#@! crazy.

[angelatc]

Hm. Well, that wasn't very ladylike.



Well sure. You're certainly fee to make rules for yourself so long as others aren't forced to equally do the same.

I have no idea what that means. What I mean is that you're here literally freaking out because my keyboard missed a Y and spellcheck didn't flag it in context.

And note that DonnaY still hasn't provided the study that her source says doesn't exist but it the basis for the entire thread. That's the same kind of help that people who call CPS give to society. After all, they just want to help.

Instead, JFK is gonna dox me, you're frantic about your personal info being released, and DonnaY is screeching accusations that I support evidence based modern medicine.

[Chester Copperpot]

$#@! you, $#@!.

Angela Thornton Canny
15223 Ripple Dr
Linden MI 48451
810.459.8569

ANd it isn't even the first time I've posted it here, Einstein.

Even though Ive known your name is Angela for years I never think of it because 'ATC' was the old stock symbol for Atari Corp. on the American Stock Exchange and when I read your name in my mind I always read it as 'Angel ATC'

[angelatc]

Even though Ive known your name is Angela for years I never think of it because 'ATC' was the old stock symbol for Atari Corp. on the American Stock Exchange and when I read your name in my mind I always read it as 'Angel ATC'

That makes me sad, because Amy..OOPS I mean AmyPi... told me the same thing.

But you can call me Angie.

[Chester Copperpot]

That makes me sad, because Amy....I mean AmyPi told me the same thing.

AmyPi knew about Atari Corp's stock symbol????

[Natural Citizen]

I have no idea what that means. What I mean is that you're here literally freaking out because my keyboard missed a Y and spellcheck didn't flag it in context.

And note that DonnaY still hasn't provided the study that her source says doesn't exist but it the basis for the entire thread. That's the same kind of help that people who call CPS give to society. After all, they just want to help.

Instead, JFK is gonna dox me, you're frantic about your personal info being released, and DonnaY is screeching accusations that I support evidence based modern medicine.

I was just asking a question. I made no claim other than the anomaly appears to be consistent and repetitive in specific context. If your keyboard's busted, then, your keyboard's busted.

[angelatc]

There's no profit in cures. Only treatment.

^^^From the same crowd that is currently freaking out over the HPV vaccine, which prevents the #1 cause of cervical cancer. Cost? $500 for the series. How much do you think treatment for cervical cancer costs?

[Chester Copperpot]

I was just asking a question. If you're keyboards busted, then, your keyboards busted.

FWIW, my keyboard isnt busted but nowadays all the keyboards seem to suck.. Im always typing f.ucked up and im an excellent speller and grammar person... all the keyboards now adays are flat... they seem lifeless.. back in the day the keys were raised and had clicky springs and all that...

[angelatc]

AmyPi knew about Atari Corp's stock symbol????

Ha ha - I don't remember - but she thought my name was Angel for a long time.

[Chester Copperpot]

^^^From the same crowd that is currently freaking out over the HPV vaccine, which prevents the #1 cause of cervical cancer. Cost? $500 for the series. How much do you think treatment for cervical cancer costs?

even though Im against vaccines because of their added unsafe ingredients like mercury etc... As a recent patient for HPV related cancer, had I known this could have happened I would gladly have opted for the vaccine instead. If I had a son I would explain everything to him as well... However I think there would be less resistance if vaccines were made better like they were back in the day.

[angelatc]

even though Im against vaccines because of their added unsafe ingredients like mercury etc... .

Aside from the fact that the HPV vaccine doesn't have mercury in it, the mercury in vaccines isn't the same mercury that's in thermometers. Your body can metabolize it. It's like the difference between drinking vodka and drinking rubbing alcohol.

[Natural Citizen]

^^^From the same crowd that is currently freaking out over the HPV vaccine, which prevents the #1 cause of cervical cancer. Cost? $500 for the series. How much do you think treatment for cervical cancer costs?

I don't know. I'm not anti-vaccine, per se. I'm just selective.

HPVs are sexually transmitted. And I think about 70 or 80 percent of cervical cancer is caused by these HPV sexually transmitted diseases. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Seems like the root problem is a social disease to me. Personal choices.

So, then, why should I (if I had a daughter) condone the idea of vaccination at the end of the barrel of a government gun because of the personal indulgences of others?

My argument about them isn't about their safety, per se.